/wg/-Writing General

[Anonymous No.17680682]

Any progress on your novels?

previous thread:>>17670157

For Prose:
>The Art of Fiction
>Story Genius: How to Use Brain Science to Go Beyond Outlining and Write a Riveting Novel (Before You Waste Three Years Writing 327 Pages That Go Nowhere)
>On Becoming A Novelist
>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft
>How Fiction Works
>The Rhetoric of Fiction
>Steering the Craft

For Poetry:
>The Poetry Home Repair Manual
>Western Wind: An Introduction to Poetry

Related Material:
>What Editors Do
>A Student's Introduction to English Grammar
>Garner's Modern English Usage

Suggested books on storytelling:
>The Weekend Novelist
>Aristotle's Poetics
>Hero With a Thousand Faces
>Romance the Beat

Suggested books on getting your fucking work done you lazy piece of shit:
>Deep Work
>Atomic Habits

Traditional publishing
> Formatting manuscript
https://blog.reedsy.com/manuscript-format/
> Write a query
https://www.janefriedman.com/query-letters/
> Track your query
https://querytracker.net/

Other Resources
>General grammar/syntax/editing help
https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/purdue_owl.html
> When/where/how should I write?
https://jamesclear.com/daily-routines-writers
> What software should I write with?
https://self-publishingschool.com/book-writing-software-best/
> Amazon Publishing to make that KDP monie
https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200635650
> Be like Charles Dickens and write serially
https://www.royalroad.com/
> Basic overview of the Screenplay format
https://screenwriting.info/

[Anonymous No.17680717]

>>17680682
I'm thinking of writing a first person story about a person who gets a lobotomy during the time it was all the rage. The final entry will be after their lobotomy and I'm thinking of making that entry complete gibberish (or at least clearly stupefied). I think that's a fun idea but I'd like to hear thoughts on it

[Anonymous No.17680757]

>>17680682
> How Fiction Works
Why do you recommend a book about fiction by an author who writes terrible fiction?

[Willow Creek - open to suggest(...) No.17680947]

Rain pelts the roof of the van. She coughs and leans her head against the arm of the passenger seat, severing the strand of precum while gasping for oxygen, choked by the musk of her captor's frustrated arousal. As she looks up, breathless, her face appears hurt and scared, "Kirsten... no. Whyyy?" the realization of what is happening to her finally dawning. "Why ar—mmfff..." Kirsten's big, hairy, sweaty balls provide their answer, quieting her. Her tongue slithers deftly into their craggy folds, eager to please, eager for this all to be over. Gazing up past pubic hairs, she can see Kirsten's countenance, witchy and mean, leering down back at her. Its eyes are scum-green, its forehead tall, its jaw softly prominent; its tight cheeks, tall nose, and rounded chin project in way at once hard and... feminine, Summer thinks, a face occupying a strange niche between thirty-something trailer trash and femme fatale. Her captor's long, dark eyelashes remind her of—SNUFFLEUPAGUS—she is slammed face-first into one of the steel shelves.

Dazed and confused, and with a cut opening up on her bobbling head, she recalls an androgyne bully whom she fell victim to in the fifth grade. In hindsight, the Bully's barbarity seems sadistic in its inception. Young Summer had innocently assumed that the Bully was herself abused "Maybe by her parents?..."

Little bitch! squeaks the adorable Bully, lifting Summer back into the van by the hair. Summer stands there, mouth hung open, looking blank. "Why'd you stop licking my balls?"

"I didn't!" She's slapped in her head multiple times, each hit sending it flying with steamers of long hair in tow. "I DIDN'T!" she screams, crying again as her brain rattles painfully. "Why'd you stop? Huh? Huh?" Her skull clanks off the interior wall. "I DID-idn'T!" A left hook to her liver doubles her over in agony onto the floor, where she holds her stomach and retches quietly. Huge palm prints glow red hot on her cheeks. "No... no..."
>_____

What happens next?

[Anonymous No.17681109]

This is the tone and prose and feel and voice I want to capture how do i achieve such a thing? i dont have a voice im a shit author ill never be any g\

[Willow Creek - open to suggest(...) No.17681201]

>>17681109
First you ought to stop feigning nonchalance while earnestly seeking advice for something that you obviously care a great deal about.

[Anonymous No.17681213]

>>17681201
what do you mean nonchalance ive never feigned since i was a kid

[Willow Creek - open to suggest(...) No.17681241]

>>17681213
All the run on sentences, intentional typos and lower-case shit just comes off as cloying and pathetic.

[Anonymous No.17681242]

>>17681109
Nobody cares, shut up and bottle it up inside, we ain’t your therapist nor do we want to read your blog post. Just write, we don't need to read your self-pitying excuses.

[Anonymous No.17681261]

>>17680757
I don't have a horse in this race, but someone can be bad at something and still be a good coach in some sense. Like I wouldn't throw an art history prof under the bus just because they aren't a great painter.

[Anonymous No.17681287]

>>17681241
i have no clue what you're even talking about
>>17681242
no im not gonna shutup this is writing general. i write more than you probably

[Anonymous No.17681349]

>>17680717
That might be intresting but it seems like the entire point is to be a joke. I'm all for high effort shitposts, but maybe you'd want to find something else to keep it interesting from the start, rather than just base the entire thing off of the punchline

[Anonymous No.17681356]

>>17681287
So instead of actually writing, you instead would rather bitch and moan and waste everyone's time here about how you dont have a voice, making excuses upon excuses, when you could just write and try to find your voice. Just stop, it's annoying and not worth our time. Either write or don't but don't waste posts on feigning nonchalance, it's fucking pathetic.

[Anonymous No.17681367]

>>17681356
i really dont see how im feigning nonchalance at all though and i am writing i literally have two monitors right now and im writing my story only stopping for this

[Anonymous No.17681410]

>>17680947
Green shirt man opens the door and rescues Summer from the troon. He beats the shit out of him and chucks him into the mens bathroom at the nearest starbucks. Summer thanks him and he gives her a firm handshake and apologies profusely for what she had experienced. He vanishes, almost as if into the wind, to Summer's amazement. He must go on to find other goblins to slay

[Anonymous No.17681432]

>>17681367
Post an excerpt or stfu. How are we supposed to give you advice on your tone or whatever if you don't show us your work

[Anonymous No.17681456]

>>17681432
Anon, stop, the only people who are actually writing on these threads are animefags and pornfags who want to be smut writers. It's been known for a while now.

[Anonymous No.17681492]

>>17681349
Will like I said I want to be an historical exploring the asylums and mental illnesses of that time. But I don't want an opinion on that part because that's the plan, I just wonder if people will role their eyes at something like that at the end of what would be a very gruesome story about lobotomies. I'm going to study up on the period and on lobotomies but the idea is I do want the main character to suffer a lobotomy at the end.

[Anonymous No.17681510]

>>17680717
sounds like flowers for algernon but with more buildup for less payoff and less overall insight

[Anonymous No.17681515]

>>17681261
That’s true but isn’t it always better to learn from a master? The closest thing to that I’ve found is the recommended book on fiction by Henry James.

[Anonymous No.17681519]

>>17681432
hey man fuck off ok? i dont want anyone here to steal my work i know its happened a few times

[Anonymous No.17681550]

>>17681261
>>17681515
Also, I just want to say that I think 99.9% of cultural critique is complete and total garbage and I’ve come to believe that it’s probably even more likely if the critic in question is someone that’s really heralded as an excellent critic by the academy or publications or whoever. I suppose it’s better than the type of critical theory cultural criticism that tries to say that every story is actually “Freudian/Lacanian/Deleuzian” but it’s still trash. I bought this book along with one of the author’s works of fiction and it’s hard to really imagine getting anything of value from this.

[Anonymous No.17682002]

>>17680682
Would love any serious critique of this, thanks.
It's free on Kindle KU Unlimited, and it's about a 90 - 120 min read at most.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08TGBGGF8

[Anonymous No.17682204]

>Woke up
>The only writing since has been smut
Fucking post you fuckin dogs. Also rate my piece.

[Anonymous No.17682318]

>>17682204
Non-edited chapter wip

[Anonymous No.17682366]

Why do you /wg/fags post pics instead of text? I'm curious

[Anonymous No.17682373]

>>17682366
i would rather read from a picture with proper formatted text than a block of text in the message field.

[Anonymous No.17682375]

>>17682373
Good answer, thanks.

[Anonymous No.17682395]

>>17682366
Because this thread is primarily for discussion and you are a Giant Retard for dumping a block of nonsense in the middle of it. It's an eyesore.

[Anonymous No.17682418]

>>17682318
Actually good. I'm not a fan of dialogue tag actions but I know it works. I think this is one of the few present tense narratives in the last several threads.

>>17682366
This >>17682373

[Anonymous No.17682434]

>>17682318
I'd read it

[Anonymous No.17682759]

>>17680682
I'm hoping I can make progress tonight. I've been in a bad mental state for most of the past week and haven't even been able to look at my writing. There's been some cause for quality concerns and I'm still kind of bored of my story. I'm not sure how I'm going to reinvigorate my interest when the time comes to write the sequel

[Anonymous No.17682824]

If I could give one piece of advice to every single author I've ever seen or critiqued in any of these threads: start your story with something other than your character speaking or performing a mundane action. Probably like 50% of the stories I see in these threads start in the middle of conversations and not particularly interesting ones either. Sometimes these aren't beginnings, but rather excerpts, but since no one ever provides any sort of context to make any sense of the scene they've presented, they are functionally the same. I'm not sure why people do this. I'm guessing it's the common "start your story in the action" advice which has gone sour in the writer's mind, because they don't have any action in their story and so they go reaching for the nearest thing, conversation.

But the core issue here is that we have absolutely nothing whatsoever to make us give a shit about who's doing or saying what for whatever reason. You would be incredibly hard-pressed to find any great novel which starts this way. I don't know what the key to generating interest or sympathy for a character in the opening lines might be, but it's definitely not having them start talking out of thin air for no reason the reader can discern or fussing around with table settings.

I would guess that you want a simple image, straightforward, which can be easily pictured by anyone, and just different enough from every day life that the reader is curious to find out why, but not so different that they can't understand it. Probably something like:

>Smoking and sputtering, the fighter jet only just barely cleared the rooftops of our humble village before banking sharply to the west and skidding to a flaming stop in a field.
>Once, twice, three times the cat tested the heat of the asphalt with the pads of his paws before finally deciding to stay put.

Definitely not:
>"Oh, you don't say!"
>"Oh, but I do say!"
>"And you're positive it was Mrs. Haversham?"
>"Well, that's the kicker: I'm positive it wasn't! It was *Miss* Haversham."
>"Dreadful!"
>"Beastly!"
>"Ghastly!"
Followed by ten paragraphs of pouring tea for the sole purpose of demonstrating that these characters are very real people who live in a very real world, where tables get scuffed and they sometimes think about repairing the table scuff but then decide that it's too much effort. Just like a *real person* would. Because also very much like a real person, your reader will get tired of seeing this shit very quickly and go find something more exciting to do.

[Anonymous No.17682842]

>>17682204
good start. i'd read it.
>they'd been transplanted
i think this can be cut out

[Anonymous No.17682854]

>>17682824
Those two examples are very good, unironically. I can imagine entire plots based around them, but can't tell for sure if I'm right.

[Anonymous No.17682876]

>>17682759
similar boat here. gonna start again tonight. you can do it, bro.

>>17682824
thanks

[Anonymous No.17683011]

>meditating on my script
>realize that all the main villains represent an aspect of modern politics that concern me
>this happened purely by accident
Huh.

[Anonymous No.17683049]

>>17683011
Your subconscious mind manifesting itself into your compositions is no accident, anon.

[Anonymous No.17683067]

>>17683049
I meant that I wasn't manually assigning each villain one of these aspects but I'm kind of amazed at how it worked out.

[Anonymous No.17683117]

A writing prompt:
>In a remote part of the world, there are rumors that a small and obscure religious minority are being exterminated en masse
>UN and other international peacekeepers intervene to investigate these claims
>The first squad of armed peacekeepers arrives to the suspected location of a mass grave, directly outside of a small village
>The peacekeepers encounter villagers and speak with them, asking about suspicious activity
>They are met with rumors of the religious minority performing vile human sacrifices
>Though it takes a while, a couple of cooperative villages inform the peacekeepers of the goings on
>A new mass grave has been dug a short distance from the town, but has not been filled with corpses yet
>The peacekeepers trek to the location and find a large pit in the ground, with an assortment of bound people on their knees in front of it
>The peacekeepers begin to free as many as they can
>Shouting and marching is heard, and the peacekeepers realize that a hostile group which greatly outnumbers them is coming to perform the executions
>The peacekeepers and freed hostages have little choice but to hide behind the treeline and try to avoid detection
>After only a tense moment, the armed men position themselves to begin the executions
>Before they fire, many in the crowd of freed hostages begin whispering in frantic and broken phrases about "rituals" and "the self"
>The peacekeepers desperately hush them
>Without further delay, the armed men spray the tied hostages with gunfire, killing them immediately, their bodies dropping into the pit
>There is a single moment of extremely uneasy silence after the gunshots stopped echoing
>All hell breaks loose
The implication is that those executed had arranged rituals of human sacrifice in which they were the victim, pre-empting their own murder in a bid to take vengeance on those responsible

[Anonymous No.17683514]

>>17683117
...why don't you write it?

[Anonymous No.17683522]

>>17683117
A prompt is like one or two sentences. You clearly like your own idea so just write it, nobody else will

[Anonymous No.17683637]

>>17683117
>one of the lowest barrier to entry hobbies possible
>still ideaguys instead of doing anything
Just write.

[Anonymous No.17683700]

>>17682824
You've pointed out the great struggles of starting a story and I want to make a few pointers.

On one hand, you have Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment which starts out with background and motivation for why the MC wants to sneak past his landlady. On the other hand, you have Joyce's Ulysses which throws you into the thick of things with no frame of reference. Obviously, both are acclaimed literature.

I want to point to alacroix's Erased over on RR as I think it's a big offender of the points being made. The story starts out with a lot of actors drinking, talking, and playing games. Throughout the narrative, the reader rather than the MC, are given hints that another narrative is taking place. Frankly, it's boring to read and there's so much gaming to get through.

Borchard's Wish Mountain. The narrative is quickly set. MC has been arrested and is excited to stand trial.

I don't know if these are exactly what you're alluring to, but this is the gist I get from the points you've made.

[Anonymous No.17683726]

>>17682824
>"Oh, you don't say!"
>"Oh, but I do say!"
>>"Dreadful!"
>>"Beastly!"
>>"Ghastly!"
Based and gormenghast pilled, would read

[Anonymous No.17683750]

>>17682824
>>17683700
I notice that there've been good, useful posts recently
I thought /wg/ was supposed to be shitter containment. Thanks anons, maybe it's worth lurking here

[Anonymous No.17683794]

>join a random writing discord
>it's all schizo blogging and tumblr identity wankery
bro I just want to crit and get crit, go start a blog or something

[Anonymous No.17683806]

>>17683794
>joining any discord
Why?

[Anonymous No.17683830]

Self pub anons, please post your process! I would love to learn more about advertising, Kindle Unlimited, cover design etc.

[Anonymous No.17683834]

>>17683806
cuz most of us are weak and have trouble developing habits without a peer group

[Anonymous No.17683852]

>>17683700
my goal in life is to get mentioned as an example in one of your posts based anon who actually reads the thread

[Anonymous No.17683853]

>>17683834
No, I got that but, I mean, why join a Discord?
The place is cursed.

[Anonymous No.17683883]

>>17683853
high activity and member count means you can get crits quickly and have something new to discuss whenever you feel like checking in
forums are too slow and /wg/ only gets 2~ quality posts a day
>reddit

not a whole lot of options if your personal friends dont into literature

[Anonymous No.17683896]

>>17683011
>villains in my story all have traits that I dislike and engage in behaviors which make me feel concerned
>didn't even plan it that way
Is this divine inspiration? Some form of magic?
>>17683117
That's not a prompt.

[Anonymous No.17683923]

>>17683794
Im part of a discord writing server that started here. Getting the place to be even a little on topic is like trying to squeeze water out of a stone. But in all honesty I've been on internet based writing communities since I was 13 and it's been the best place to get feedback on your stuff. Writing groups in general are terrible unless they're in person.

[Anonymous No.17683967]

>>17683923
>in person
>current year
:^)

[Anonymous No.17684049]

>>17680717
Maybe make the pages before increasingly worried and shit and have the final entry be a single word like 'happy' or whatever

defo an interesting concept, I'd read

[Anonymous No.17684065]

>>17680717
Put in teenage hookers and samurai cyborgs and nazi zombies and dragons and you got yourself a winner

[Anonymous No.17684102]

>>17682824
I like to start with a provocative, almost aphoristic statement or an image that subtly captures the whole theme of the story in microcosm. I'm unusual in the sense I don't believe in character-centric narratives. They exist to serve a purpose and execute the narrative logic. The story isn't about them they are about the story.

[Anonymous No.17684120]

>>17683700
>On one hand, you have Dostoevsky's Crime and Punishment which starts out with background and motivation for why the MC wants to sneak past his landlady. On the other hand, you have Joyce's Ulysses which throws you into the thick of things with no frame of reference. Obviously, both are acclaimed literature.

Bit of a confession: I don't read a lot of literature from before the spread of home video, and I don't take a lot of lessons from what I do read. The reading audience used to be a lot broader and a lot more patient, so writers could get away with a lot more meandering and cheap tricks. But I really wracked my brain on this one and the closest I could get was various 1st person POV novels which start out with the protagonist addressing the audience. Like "I'm fucked" from The Martian probably counts or so does "Call me Ishmael" from Moby Dick if you reach back further.

The fundamental point I was trying to make is that a book is an agreement between a writer and his audience: you pay attention to what I have to say and in return I'll try to make it interesting. If the reader gets the impression that you're not going to keep up your end of the bargain, they won't keep theirs. And since reading is a bit of a chore for most people, the burden is on the writer to accommodate the will of the reader. Every moment of confusion or boredom is a drain on the reader's goodwill, and the opening pages are very critical because it's easier to give up on a book before you've invested time and energy into reading it.

I checked out the two RR stories you mentioned, and the second is definitely superior. Like I mentioned, it has the perfect combination of familiarity and mystery. The old "castle lock-up" combined with a prisoner who is excited not so much to clear his name, but just to tell his story.

I wonder if anyone would be willing to give me some feedback on the novella I've been writing. First chapter: https://pastebin.com/6k76GRMs
It's a loose retelling of Dante's Inferno, set in the Florida Panhandle. Funny enough, I seem to have come close to making the same mistake I was just complaining about. It's a rough draft.

[Anonymous No.17684275]

>>17683896
I wonder.
I wasn't even intending to lean into real world politics on that script because it's the script for a toy stop motion animation series but it's weird how they aligned with those; and at first I only picked them because I thought they would be cool to have as enemies but they fell neatly into those aspects without having to do any meaningful changes in the story.
At most I changed Starscream from being a broken man who wants peace by any means to that being just an act, but honestly that just fits him better.
Not that there weren't ever going to be politics, though, because I was the kind of dumb kid that had his important toys have meetings to take decisions on what to do about the new bad guys or how to rebuild the city that was just destroyed and such.

[Anonymous No.17684307]

>>17684120
This is the crux of storytelling. I've posted a few excerpts for the last couple threads and have since caught myself relying on multiple actors to drive a story forward. I had to ask, "Will readers care beyond what the actors talk about? Do they even care about the talking?"

That's why, in this thread, I wrote about a single actor. My hope was that the reader could get a sense of the scene and the character's motivations. MC is a burglar and I sealed the narrative by having him pick open a window.

>Your story
Good prose. It has a soft hook at the start and I got worried that the hook wouldn't get explained when you started to do exposition on the setting. The hook is addressed soon after, thankfully, and there's more exposition. MC's current motivation seems to be to search for a person by himself; it's good enough to keep reading.
>It wasn’t a question.
This line can be removed, I think. You've used show and then you reinforce to the reader again by telling.

[Anonymous No.17684585]

How is writing a visual novel different from writing a novel?

[Anonymous No.17684614]

>>17684585
Visual novels are anime porn, a novel is literature!

[Anonymous No.17684619]

Is Lit Quarterly dead?

[Anonymous No.17684637]

>>17684585
You are writing a script for Visual Novel, often with branching paths and multiple endings. And often Visual Novels have some kind of game, or just interactive stuff attached.

[Anonymous No.17684640]

The smoke shop jaundiced with eruption as millions of tiny little men poured out. These men congealed into Bastabilioni the sensationalist news reporter. Ever eager the bastard investigated the liquidation of the Stoner's favored. Caligula? But she was no longer there. Bastabilioni turned to his whore, Caligula had nothing to offer him anymore but her glassy eyes. In this afternoon's light the bastard found it fetching. He brought his hands to her. He loved her. Bastabilioni could only watch as the stranger fashioned a noose from skin and bone. His paws and tendrils knew no crime save fellatio yet performed their duty like the schoolchild's first errand. Caligula offered no surprise to the reveal and let the loverboy do what he did best. Caligula died in the handicapped parking space. The record scratched. The book stopped. It turned to you. You find yourself staring at a page. It holds no words of value yet you continue reading. This reading will never offer you sustenance you you continue. The book speaks to you and you must listen. Why? The book turns towards you, its breath heavy of holly. 'I am the finger down your spine when all the lights are out. I am the practitioner of your glory hole. I role your dice into the Time Temptress' lingering stare. You bed whores and I am your Watson. Come with me dear reader. As you tell the story the begins the song that lights the fire to end the world of worms and man.
Bastabilioni realigned into the driver's seat of his used 1999 Honda Civic Si in sapphire blue which he had modified with wheels not unlike those found on a Subaru WRX Sti the rally car of its time. The car was a pretty penny but Bastabilioni was a pretty man. This is the ender of the pleasantries and Bastabilioni was a made man late for introduction to homer at the local college.

[Anonymous No.17684671]

>>17683011

>try to give my villain a compelling motivation
>write them too compelling
>end up completely agreeing with them
>the hero's arguments start to look laughably naive and trivial by comparison
>start to think it's unfair for the villain to die

I just wanted to show the reader some shades of gray

[Anonymous No.17684711]

>>17684671
Make your villain the new hero and make your hero into the villain. Once you make your hero the villain, develop him more and you'll rebalance the scales.

[Anonymous No.17685035]

>>17682002
Eh. I don't know about this. Lots of telling and reminds me of childrens novels, but the setting isn't for children.

Prose Rankings. Top to bottom, best to worst.
>Wish Mountain
>Saga of the Cosmic Heroes
/ffa/
France Non-fiction anon
>F. Gardner
>People Mover
>Erased
>ESKETIT
>A Super Robot Story
>King of Beasts
>(You)

[Anonymous No.17685112]

>>17685035
One day, I'll be on this list. You'll see. You'll all see...

[Anonymous No.17685193]

Whenever I see someone praise a known anon's work without prompting, I assume it's the author posting.

[Anonymous No.17685225]

>>17685035
>third worst
Success, I guess.

[Anonymous No.17685242]

My goal is to destroy Wish Mountain with my space story.

[Anonymous No.17685340]

>>17680717
Sounds like Gogol's diary of a madman

[Anonymous No.17685374]

After finishing my current short story, I'm considering some of my other ideas and I'd like opinions on them if possible
>Administrator for totalitarian regime is set up for public execution which he is convinced he accidentally instigated, he has to make all sorts of nonsensical confessions and also hear the mourning of the people who "sacrificed their relatives in order to arrest the enemy agent and obtain valuable information" (people he had to killed to fill in quotas), then at the end, because of another mix-up, his executioner is instead executed somewhere else and he is promoted and everyone cheers him on
>After a very awkward last day near Platea, the Persian general Mardonius sees dream on the last night before the battle he dies. It's the same dream as he had seen when he slept in the bed Xerxes (Xerxes, in Herodotus, claimed to have seen a dream urging him to attack Greece, Mardonius said that dreams are just what you're thinking about during the day and Xerxes told him to sleep in his bed dressed as him so that he could also see the dream which happens), when he asks why he's actually losing the war and about to die, the figure in the dream points out that his own interpretation of dreams could have been just as true as Xerxes' supernatural version and that this was all something he made up to satisfy his own vanity and greed

[Anonymous No.17685383]

Any chad Catalan writers here?
Drop your jocs florals

[Anonymous No.17685523]

Does the story always have to keep moving? You can't have one scene that's just happening? Like I've read in some books where it's just the characters talking in a book, or their thoughts can be read.

[Anonymous No.17685530]

>>17684640
>jaundiced with eruption

[Anonymous No.17685646]

>>17680717
>I'm thinking of making that entry complete gibberish (or at least clearly stupefied)
Should be very easy for you

[Anonymous No.17685650]

>>17685035
>third best
awesome

[Anonymous No.17685818]

I'm writing a short story for a local contest. Free subject. Any advice you could share with me?
Also, I hope to be able to share some extracts with you (although it's in Spanish) later so you can comment on them, if you'd like.

[Anonymous No.17685821]

>>17682824
>tfw don’t do this
Feels good

[Anonymous No.17685828]

>>17685523
Not necessarily. I think what you need is conflict, even if nothing "important" is happening. If it's just some conversation, as long as you can keep the reader interested, there is no need to get rid of it. For example, an argument over a very banal subject can still be engaging if the characters' personalities are strong enough, or if it allows you to experiment with the language or the presentation of ideas.

[Anonymous No.17685863]

>>17685523
>Like I've read in some books where it's just the characters talking in a book, or their thoughts can be read.
Depends on what you're writing and who your audience is. You just have to be good at making that seem interesting. Dostoyevsky and Proust are considered great writers, and half the time their characters are just sitting around and brooding or contemplating life. The key is that while doing so they are usually considering genius thoughts rather than the typical inanities that go through people's heads when they're idling away the time. The whole idea that "the action must continue" is almost an ADHD notion, it assumes the reader must always be entertained like a child. That may be true for some cases depending on your audience.

[Anonymous No.17685905]

>>17685523
Nothing happening is fine
Nothing happening without reason is not fine
Don't know why it's there? Cut it

You could try to innovate and be the pollock of writing and just write whatever the fuck seems aesthetic

[Anonymous No.17686032]

>>17685828
>>17685863
>>17685905

Thanks anons, yeah this
>Dostoyevsky and Proust are considered great writers, and half the time their characters are just sitting around and brooding or contemplating life

is what I was talking about lol, I meant to say characters talking in a room in my post but yeah I think of Dostoevsky and I think Ivan talking to the devil, The grand inquisitor iirc. I'll try to make my dialogue interesting. Thanks. You guys gave good advice.

[Anonymous No.17686046]

>>17685863
>>17686032
Dostoevsky and Proust are also ancient as fuck, written for the taste of their contemporary audiences, and written when literature was not so saturated

You may not get the same results from doing what they did

[Anonymous No.17686078]

>>17680682
Does anyone have any tips on how to get better at blending the different types of sentences? How can I become better at mixing dialogue with environmental description? I'm struggling to switch between them, I either go way too much into the setting or the dialogue. And if i try to shorten the dialogue, it gets to corny and reads unrealistically. I know this probably sounds vague , but it's a big problem for me.

Are there any examples of good blending, any exercises?

[Anonymous No.17686110]

>>17686078

[Anonymous No.17686121]

>>17686110
I don't think this is what he was asking

[Anonymous No.17686136]

>>17686078
>How can I become better at mixing dialogue with environmental description?
Oh sorry you mean this I presume.

Honestly, it is an art, not a science, but rule of thumb - you will rarely go wrong changing tack every 4 sentences or so. That is, adding description or an event in between 2-4 sentences of dialogue.

[Anonymous No.17686353]

>>17685035
>Prose Rankings
What is the point of ranking crap? All of those stories fail in chapter one, some of them already in the synopsis.

Only the Wish Mountain author seems interested in actually learning and has asked for comments and help, the rest just shill their shit and ignore feedback

[Anonymous No.17686369]

>>17686353
Hey, I constantly ask for feedback on ASRS. But usually not here.

[Anonymous No.17686475]

>>17682824
Good post. I think people fuck up because they're told not to use passive language in the opening, but doing so would be better than the alternatives they come up with.

At the same time, though, I feel like most people just write an opening they don't care for knowing that they will come back to it after the draft is finished, and I don't think it's something you need to sit and think about for a long time up front. This is good advice for editing, though.

[Anonymous No.17686621]

Hope everyone's been practicing. It took me awhile to think of godlike entities that suit a comedic tone

See you guys tomorrow morning

[Anonymous No.17686672]

The young knight shivered and burrowed deeper into the oversized fur coat the innkeeper had lent him. He desperately wished he was back at that inn right now instead of trudging up a mud soaked path and freezing himself half to death. Oh to be sat by the roaring fire with a mug of ale or a nice wine swapping stories with the locals. He didn’t have many of his own yet but the few he did have he told proudly and without embellishment. This however would not be one of them.

He had suspected it was a joke assignment from the beginning. Reports of monster sightings around a tiny farming village not even named on any of their maps. Questionable at best tales of werewolves supposedly butchering livestock? Send the rookie of course. Not that he blamed them. The guild couldn’t waste resources chasing up every rumour and unconfirmed sighting across the kingdom. Sending someone out was simply a show of good faith. A way to let people know that wherever they were, they were under the guild’s protection.

The village had been overjoyed at his arrival. At the sight of the unmistakable guild emblem on his cape they had rushed from their homes to greet him. They had all been enamoured with the silver sword on his hip. A weapon made specially for his mission by the guild’s finest smiths that would cut through a wolf like butter. Any beast lurking in the forest would not survive his blade he had assured them. In truth it was just some old thing pulled from the armoury that he had polished to look new. He wasn’t even sure if it was real silver. His skill with it however was without question. A quick demonstration had put all their concerns about his small frame to rest. He wasn’t going to win a contest of strength, but with a sword few could stand against him.

The next week had been more of a holiday than an assignment as he waited for the full moon to arrive. The villagers didn’t have much but were as generous as could be. A refreshing change from attitudes in the capital. Free food, free lodging at the inn and whatever other small things they could offer him they did so without hesitation. An old woman had given him a magic silver charm to ward off evil which he had thanked her for and promised to return after his mission was over. He in turn had helped with whatever chores needed doing, despite their insistence that he spend his time resting and preparing for the battle.

[Anonymous No.17686685]

>>17686046
Yeah that's true, but people still read them. Your book probably won't sell like Harry Potter but i'm just saying the whole rule that it has to always be about action is like saying every movie has to be a whiz bang Marvel superhero movie and you can't have slow burning dramas.

[Anonymous No.17686698]

> TFW you don't know how your story should end
Maybe I should approach my story as if I wanted to read it starting from the beginning, and then smooth it out at the end...

[Anonymous No.17686717]

>>17686698
Completely unbased approach. If anything, you should write the end before the beginning. If you know what your story is trying to say - and what needs to happen to the protagonist for you to say it - you should know the ending better than any other part of the story, before you start writing.

[Anonymous No.17686773]

>>17686717
Well, I guess the problem is that so many parts are undefined unlike my short story ideas where I definitely know how it ends.

[Anonymous No.17686787]

>>17686353
>and ignore feedback
I practically never even get feedback in the first place, though. Here, chapter comments, anywhere really. I've listened to what extremely scarce feedback I did listen to.

[Anonymous No.17686806]

>>17686773
I have the same problem anon. It's hard to visualize when you're a shitter with little experience.
It's like trying to draw when you have poor imagination construction skills and no mechanical practice. Sure, you know how it's supposed to be when it's done. Sure, you know to start with line art
But the fuck do you do inbetween and how do you do it

Dunno, but the answer is almost certainly practice. GL anon

[Anonymous No.17686817]

>>17686773
Then practice with short stories

Too many anons want to write The Great Novel straight off

[Anonymous No.17686829]

>>17686817
If your debut novel doesn't revolutionize literature, why do you even bother?

[Anonymous No.17686843]

>>17686829
Same reason I don't imagine Michael Phelps fucking my wife whenever I go for a swim
Just write

[Anonymous No.17686854]

>>17686806
Exactly, the little details matter too and I sure as hell don't want to be that guy who ends up with too many characters due to lack of planning.

>>17686817
Oh, I have no delusion of that when almost everything about my great novel is vague and needs reworking. I'll write a short story instead and post it here, it'll be a good warm-up if nothing else.

[Anonymous No.17686867]

>>17686621
>>17686854
Join me anon. Inspired by the /lit/ flash anthology I've started writing a flash everyday
It's fun and only takes 10~ minutes

[Anonymous No.17686869]

>>17686698
>tfw I have to write an anthology of short stories and 13 books before I get to the ending
>the most concrete thing I have planned is said ending

[Anonymous No.17686877]

>>17685383
If I know some Spanish and conversational French will I be able to understand Catalan?

[Anonymous No.17686897]

>>17686867
How long is a flash? But yeah, that sounds like a good idea to evaluate how well do you know your story.

[Anonymous No.17686919]

>>17686897
1k word max but it doesn't really matter. The idea is to just practice planning a narrative, writing coherent prose and wrapping it all up in a conclusion

[Anonymous No.17686952]

>>17686867
They certainly help

[Anonymous No.17686970]

>>17686698
Permutate. Find a cut off point where the story could branch in different directions without having to rewrite everything that came before. Try out different versions of the ending. Just spit ball and see what you come up with. Use a kind of genetic algorithm where you select the one that stands out to you as better. Then refine that until you have something good.

Of course if you have absolutely NO ideas about an ending this doesn't work, but the whole point is just to bullshit and throw out every possible ending even if it's trash. Your ending could simply be that the main character dies unexpectedly in a car crash. Or gets the girl and lives happily ever after. Just try things out.

[Anonymous No.17687015]

>>17686919
I get the feeling my short story will end up cutting it close, but I'm going to attempt it!

>>17686970
This is nice advice! A friend of mine asked me a lot of questions with regards to some of my ideas that led to me resolving some things that would otherwise have been plot holes, so I think plotting out the possibilities and revising until it all flows well is a decent idea.

[Anonymous No.17687070]

>>17687015
>so I think plotting out the possibilities
Some writers tend to think that a story has to unfold as in real life and things can only happen one way depending on how things happened in the past. That's not true. Nothing you wrote necessitates a single ending. Think of your story as existing in a space of possibilities and everything you write as a decision to take one "path" through it.

Also because it's an ending, it obviously comes at the end, so this means you don't have to change everything that came before it unless you need to retroactively change something to be consistent.

It's much harder to branch out in the middle of a story because that means you have to throw everything else out ahead of it.

[Anonymous No.17687104]

>>17687070
In this case, I would say that the different possibilities occur because the protagonist is intentionally not someone who'd only make one choice. What's more fixed is the incidents in the long past that led to him, but that's a different issue.

[Anonymous No.17687154]

>>17686843
what on earth is that supposed to mean

[Anonymous No.17687162]

>>17687154
Look I said I don't do that alright?
Why do you keep bring it up, fucks sakes anon

[Anonymous No.17687204]

>>17687154
Michael Phelps swim good
No clue where the cuckodlry came in, I guess he's American

[Anonymous No.17687227]

>>17687204
Good analysis
It's because most wannabe artists/writers let themselves be mentally cucked by the greats and measure themselves up to the best and most accomplished in the business

[Anonymous No.17687398]

>>17687104
Maybe, but the protagonist is a figment of your imagination so while it's helpful for creative immersion to trick yourself into thinking they have their own lives and motivations in reality it's just whatever you fancy of them

[Anonymous No.17687693]

Quick!
Post your novel's first line (NO EDITING) and we all judge one another's opening hooks.
I'll start.

>I know in my heart that I can never be forgiven.

[Anonymous No.17687730]

>>17687693
>Armeijan lääkärintarkastuksen päivänä olin liikkeellä kävellen, aikomuksenani saada kulutettua koulupäivään mahdollisimman suuri lovi.
It's honestly way too long and I should change it to two separate sentences. My actual hook is in the title of the chapter anyway.
>Kutsunnat, kuulovaurio ja lupaava alku

[Anonymous No.17687734]

>>17687693
Please don't. Going for some hyper epic opener is top cringe. Just be sincere and tell the damn story.

[Anonymous No.17687741]

>>17686877
I think you will, after a brief period of adjustment. With that knowledge in mind I believe you could even teach yourself Catalan through sheer exposure.

[Anonymous No.17687747]

>>17687730
>mahdollisimman suuri lovi
Did you mean "tovi" lmao

[Anonymous No.17687751]

>>17687693
>It was a cold February afternoon.
In translation it misses out on the alliteration, but I guess that's not super important.

[Anonymous No.17687758]

Do you guys have a literary referent who, either directly or indirectly, has influenced your style?

[Anonymous No.17687771]

>>17687730
I want to stay home.

[Anonymous No.17687787]

>>17687747
No, I meant lovi. As in carving a piece off of something.

[Anonymous No.17687796]

>>17687771
Who's stopping you?

[Anonymous No.17687813]

>>17687787
That expression doesn't work at all.

[Anonymous No.17687830]

>>17687813
I see. I'll change it.

[Anonymous No.17687848]

>>17687693
I always allow myself to get mind flooded when writing openings, I guess I've fallen for the meme. It never sounds natural or compelling.
>When I was a child I liked to try to cut myself with the ceiling fan.
I swear the character doesn't utter a sentence this ungangly throughout the rest of the story. It's just the opening paragraph or so.

[Anonymous No.17687874]

>>17687730
>Of arms they sang; the minstrels of times passed,
(It's in metre)

[Anonymous No.17687918]

I wrote this story in Russian and translated it into English

The watchman kept himself awake by clacking the floorboards, walking back and forth in his shack. Tiredness didn’t allow his mind to wander off into the world, which, for two days already, was substituted by this room. The threadbare walls were the green fields, and the lightbulb hanging from a thin wire was no worse than the sun, around which currently a fly carefully flew, polite enough not to disrupt the rhythm of the clacking floorboards.
The watchman, despite the lack of sleep, hasn’t lost his vigilance. If the mildest rustle disturbed the harmony of familiar noises, he immediately stopped and mechanically yelled the phrase “Stop! Who’s there?”.
And now, when he heard a hiss that almost resembled a whisper, he repeated the familiar ritual, but unlike last time, when old drunk Vitaly was passing by the shack, he heard no answer.
Reaching for the flashlight in his pocket, the watchman went out to see if there was a stray dog running about, but didn’t see anything except the wet asphalt and spruces, which were standing still because there was no wind either.
Not without a bit of fear, the watchman returned to his shack, but soon the rhythm of his steps made him forget the noise and calmed him down.

[Anonymous No.17687930]

the editor responded :)

[Anonymous No.17687934]

>>17687918
The noise repeated, this time with an even greater resemblance to a whisper.
“Stop! Who’s there?” yelled the watchman and ran out with the flashlight, again to find nothing but the asphalt and the trees. The whisper repeated once again. The watchman stared at the spruces, but they kept standing still, as if unable to move at all.
For a while the watchman walked around to make sure that there was no one near and upon returning to the shack grabbed the shotgun and marching around the room with it, mumbling
“Alright, alright, we’ve got some jokesters in here, they wanna fool me but I’ll show ‘em, I’ll show ‘em good” Nothing was left of the sleepiness.
Approaching steps were heard.
The watchman turned to the exit, raised the shotgun and yelled at the top of his lungs “STOP RIGHT THERE OR I’LL SHOOT!”
“Don’t shoot comrade! Spare me!” answered a familiar raspy voice.
The watchman lowered the gun and came out.
“Vitya! Drunk again?”
“Not anymore I ain’t. You scared the booze right outta me”
“Get in the shack”
“What for are you inviting me into your lair all of a sudden?”
“A reason. Get in I tell you!”
“Fine, fine, just don’t yell. You people! First tryna shoot me then invite me in.”
Mumbled the old man, getting into the room.

[Anonymous No.17687935]

I was working on this play i thought i liked where the stage has the headquarters of two sides fighting in a civil war and they are both trying to gain the upper hand in battles while disobeying orders and refusing to fight on in some instances without knowing what is happening on the other side, i would like if someone gave me some feedback on how it reads.
(there are 20 pages for now but i'll only post 6)

[Anonymous No.17687945]

>>17687935
(2/6)

[Anonymous No.17687952]

>>17687918
>>17687934
“So what am I to do in here?”
“Sit and wait”
“For what?”
“You’ll see, I mean, hear. Just sit and don’t move”
After a while, the watchman heard the whisper again. He clenched the shotgun in his hands and turned to the bored drunkard.
“Did you hear?”
“Hear what?”
“Well, the whisper”
The old man looked at the watchman as if he had said something incomprehensible, turned, and said.
“Ah, the whisper, yes of course I heard it, how could i not!”
The watchman smiled.
“Ha! So you hear it too! I knew I wasn’t goin’ mad!”
The whisper repeated louder, now it distinctly said “Why did you”
“Why did you, why did you” repeated the watchman “ Why did I? Why did I what? Why did I what, huh? C’mon! Answer me!” Shouted the watchman at the street, clutching the gun.
Vitaly looked at the watchman in confusion, and said, stuttering
“Well, you, uh, should run after, uh, that whisperer, maybe you’ll manage to, uh, catch em”
Without answering, the watchman ran out into the night.
“Why did you” the whisper said out of nowhere and from everywhere.
“Why did I, huh!? Why did I what!? What did I do!?” shouted the watchman in return.
When his voice hoarsened, the watchman realized he was running nowhere for a while now and turned back to the shack. When he got there he didn’t find Vitaly. Cursing the old drunkard he sat on the stool and wept.
“Why did you”
“Lord Almighty forgive me for my sins!”
“Why did you”
“I left my poor wife, I was a fool, but I’ll return to her! I’ll redeem myself!”
“Why did you”
“I stole a wallet on the street, I bought myself new shoes, the old ones were worn out! But I’ll give my next salary to the church, I promise! I’ll redeem myself!”
“Why did you”
“Oh Dear Lord, I’ll atone all my sins!”
“Why did you”
“All of them, Lord! I’ll redeem myself!”
The Watchman yelled of redemption louder and louder, as if God wouldn’t hear him if he didn’t scream, but that didn’t help.
He didn’t understand whether it was that voice, or was it his own voice repeating after it. All he knew was that he still heard those three damned words, “Why did you”.
The watchman looked into the barrel of the shotgun. It was so quiet inside, so quiet and dark, that he wanted to get inside it, he wanted the shotgun to swallow him. He wanted the shotgun to free him of the voice.
The watchman put the barrel in his mouth to breathe in the silence.

The End

[Anonymous No.17687957]

>>17687945
(3/6)

[Anonymous No.17687962]

>>17687957
(4/6)

[Anonymous No.17687972]

>>17687962
(5/6)

[Anonymous No.17687982]

>>17687972
(6/6)

[Anonymous No.17687990]

last time for this. would appreciate feedback on the opening (above) and a dialogue (below) from the middle of the story. thanks

full thing is 2.4k words https://pastebin.com/irKQbFa9

[Anonymous No.17687996]

For those that write in their mother tongues
Do you Google translate before posting here or do you go for a full translation?

[Anonymous No.17688015]

>>17687990
The last paragraph in your pic. There is too great a pause between the first line of dialogue and the last. Bring them closer together.

Otherwise, it's well written, the dialogue is convincing, but the punctuation and sentence structure throughout needs more revision.

[Anonymous No.17688070]

>>17687996
I'm this>>17687918 poster. Initially I tried Google but it was horrendous so I translated it personally from scratch. Wouldn't do it just for 4chan though, I have other people I want to show this to.

[Anonymous No.17688117]

Prose is not storytelling. Storytelling is not your narrative. Your narrative is a tool used to tell your story, and your prose is a tool used to engage the reader.

Case in point >>17686672
Note the story being told. How does the narrative present it? There are multiple narratives here: one where the reader is presented the current situation and another to justify MC's situation through analysis of the past. How much story is being told? There's more analysis of the past than the present. Which is more captivating? And how does it all add up to the story being told?

And then you have the prose to engage the reader. Are the words used engaging? It's standard and one we've all read before. That doesn't mean it's bad.

Your writing will be a balance of these aspects.

[Anonymous No.17688194]

Why does the idea of 'just writing' scare me so much?

I know that I'm definitely a shit writer, and that writing will improve that over time, but I just can't seem to take that first step.
I guess it's because until I actually write something, I only 'think' I'd be bad at writing; there is no actual evidence to prove myself right.

[Anonymous No.17688197]

>>17687990
I've seen this a couple times. It's better now than when it was first posted where Johnny started by walking through the alleys.

[Anonymous No.17688209]

>>17688194
you should explore it. there's different types of writing, and your mindset is always shifting, so you get a wide range of results. your ability to write is never really 'fixed.' just have fun. set out to write a paragraph a day and you'll probably surpass that without even thinking about it. try some stream of consciousness.

[Anonymous No.17688219]

>>17688194
Instead of writing, in the sense of writing a story, just write down premises for stories. Choose the one you like the most and just expound upon it.

[Anonymous No.17688226]

>>17688194
You're worried you won't meet your own standards
Don't worry, noone does
And no, until it becomes habit to sit down and write and more importantly, you actually expose your work to someone else, your anxieties will only get worse
Right now, you're still in a blissful state of not having invested any actual time in a manuscript
Just write, write, write, expose to others, write, write, write, expose to others....
That's the only way to cure it and there's no pill for it

[Anonymous No.17688257]

>>17688117
Sorry I'm a massive fucking brainlet. Are you saying what I posted was shit?

[Anonymous No.17688261]

>>17680682
In the boy's books, John would be the villain; the bully, the tyrant.

Is this proper semicolon usage?

[Anonymous No.17688275]

Hitting that period of doubt again when I think my novel is boring bullshit. Must bypass.

[Anonymous No.17688282]

>>17687693
Somewhere in the vast stars, a ship lies stranded with no means to escape…

[Anonymous No.17688302]

>>17688257
No. I thought it was interesting and average, but I'm a fantasyfag. I also think the hook might be a little weak. MC starts by lazing around until the story calls for him.

[Anonymous No.17688325]

>>17688302
How is it purely from a writing perspective? Cuz it's just smut but I still want it to be well written.

[Anonymous No.17688355]

>>17688194
If you can't write your main story, write something else like a fanfic for a series you really like and know a lot. Then rework the original parts into an original story.

[Anonymous No.17688401]

>>17688261
Anyone?

[Anonymous No.17688425]

>>17686672
How exactly do you "burrow" into a coat? This is the kind of trying to be clever I hate. Why can't you just wear clothes normally and put your attention and effort into something more meaningful?

[Anonymous No.17688455]

>>17688425
If you spoke English as a native language you'd understand.

[Anonymous No.17688456]

>>17688261
Drop semicolons for short sentences. It's pretentious. Only use them for long sentences with independent clauses. Instead try simple commas:

In the boy's books John would be the villain, the bully, the tyrant.

[Anonymous No.17688473]

>>17688194
Ask yourself what your motivations for wanting to do it are. You have to stomach your own flaws to reach any level of competence. Otherwise you'll get discouraged early on and abandon it.

[Anonymous No.17688475]

>>17688455
No example refers to wearing clothing

[Anonymous No.17688479]

>>17688456
Thanks

[Anonymous No.17688490]

>>17688475
It means the same thing. Borrow into = hide in or get deeper into something. What is your native language? Because as someone who speaks English natively it makes perfect sense to me.

[Anonymous No.17688496]

>>17688490
*burrow into* not borrow into, fuck.

[Anonymous No.17688553]

>>17688425
>https://www.marieclaire.com/politics/a35267314/bernie-sanders-inauguration-meme/
>Sanders plopped down in a folding chair far away from the rest of the audience (social distancing king!), burrowed into his coat and cozy-looking knit mittens, and waited for the festivities to begin. And thus, a meme was born.

It's a common phrase you stupid ESL tard.

[Anonymous No.17688565]

>>17688194
>it's because until I actually write something, I only 'think' I'd be good at writing; there is no actual evidence to prove myself wrong.
FTFY

[Anonymous No.17688577]

>>17687918
>>17687934
>>17687935
>>17687952
Feedback? Anyone?

[Anonymous No.17688591]

>>17688577
Yeah, either post it on Pastebin or take a picture of it on whatever writing software you used to write.

[Anonymous No.17688594]

>>17687918
>>17687934
>>17687952
Feedback? Anyone?

[Anonymous No.17688608]

>>17688591
If you're referring to me>>17688594
I can't post pictures because my country's access is restricted for some reason, and I don't know how to use pastebin

[Anonymous No.17688625]

>>17688608
>and I don't know how to use pastebin
An excuse you cling to, https://pastebin.com/

Just put it in unlisted type a title and copy and paste your work in there. Not that difficult.

[Anonymous No.17688631]

>>17688577
The concept is good but the middle part was rushed. You failed to show how listening to the words made him think of the things he had done. The old man was pointless and could have been cut out of the story. Lastly, this kind of horror stories depend a lot on good prose to create the feeling, or atmosphere, or mood; I don't know how it sounded in Russian but the translation was very bland and simplistic. In fact the vocabulary level was no higher than a child's, which is alright for simple translation but will not do for emotional prose. I will risk saying that it probably didn't sound fantastic in Russian either, judging by the sentence structures.

Sorry but no.

[Anonymous No.17688785]

Trying to get some flash fiction published. Since publishers are looking for more "queer" works these days, I tried writing something like that.

Thoughts? Anything I can improve on before submitting it?

[Anonymous No.17688819]

>>17688785
They say "write what you know", so you ought to do more practical research.

[Anonymous No.17688843]

>>17688785
You gonna submit it with the cursor and spelling errors included? I'd say it needs more shit. I don't want flecks or spray, I want a torrent. Gape his ass and let the faucet run.

[Anonymous No.17688883]

>>17687693
>The living room was dark, and all that could be heard was the pitter-patter of rain against the rooftop.

[Anonymous No.17688928]

I've learned to weaponize post-nut clarity for my writing. The 30 minutes or so right after I've coomed is my most creative time of the day and some of my best work has been written with my pants still around my ankles and my nut tissues on my desk. I don't even write anything remotely sexual, just weird-fic about businessmen and doctors having mental breakdowns.

[Anonymous No.17689008]

>>17688928
Sounds like I'll have to take out my Ruby folder and give it a try, anon.

[Anonymous No.17689032]

Chapter 16 released.
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/40361/erased
>>17683700
regarding your point I don't necessarily disagree. maybe hack apart chapter 1 and graft it a bit onto chapter 2. The thing is, though, based on the statistics I have from the site, I lose relatively more people from chapter 2 to chapter 3 than chapter 1 to chapter 2. I figure its because I make it abundantly clear the MC is not exactly a very nice person in chapter 2 and people don't want to continue from there - or they were giving it two chapters and its not their particular cup of tea.
But you're not wrong, I deliberately chose to play a trick on the reader for the first bit of the story, albeit with big glaring hints dropped here and there.

[Anonymous No.17689227]

>>17688819
>They say "write what you know"
Is this why all my stories are about depressed almost-30 losers looking for reasons not to kill themselves?

[Anonymous No.17689239]

>>17689032
If I could, I would make posting RR links a bannable offense.

[Anonymous No.17689327]

>>17685035
I'm in the process of doing quick edits for King of Beasts for both grammar and prose. One day I won't be dead last.

[Anonymous No.17689338]

>>17689239
Cope and seethe harder. They're the only ones even posting and working on writing.

[Anonymous No.17689375]

>>17689338
That's right, everyone else who's posted stuff in this thread!
You're nothing compared to those wattpad2.0 professionals on royalroad.

[Anonymous No.17689443]

>>17689375
absolutely no offense to anyone who posted stuff in the thread, but those wattpad 2.0 retards provide more value simply based on wordcount. I'd really like it if people posted longer short stories here and not these 500 to 1000 word short little scenes. again, absolutely nothing against those scenes, larger works are comprised of those scenes, but its nice to be able to read some bigger chunks

[Anonymous No.17689461]

>>17689443
>argument literally boils down 'quantity over quality'

ngmi

[Anonymous No.17689471]

>>17689461
Like you write quality

[Anonymous No.17689491]

>>17680717
My Lobotomy: A Memoir, by Howard Dully
look it up

[Anonymous No.17689494]

>>17689471
You literally used RR as a measure of quality. Your opinion of quality writing was discarded long ago.

[Anonymous No.17689527]

>>17689227
>all my stories are about depressed almost-30 losers looking for reasons not to kill themselves
And finding it :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV4DiAyExN0

[Anonymous No.17689528]

>>17680682
Im writing a book on gay sex. How do I make it work?

[Anonymous No.17689538]

>>17689528
By not wasting your time here.

[Anonymous No.17689541]

>>17689528
Make yourself work dat azz

[Anonymous No.17689554]

>>17689528
I assume most of the book will be in hell after the sodomite has found himself cast into the lake of fire. I think you should utilize as much of the existing mythology as you can while tweaking other bits as surprises for the reader.

[Anonymous No.17689610]

>>17689338
>They're the only ones even posting and working on writing.
Why do people continue to perpetuate this meme.

Even though they're the ones showing their work, that doesn't mean they're the only ones working. They're just a bunch of dumbasses who don't realize that you'll be blacklisted, or your pen name will, by sharing your shit on the ebil nazi website. Some of us are aiming higher with our writing and we know not to set a glass ceiling of only /wg/.

[Anonymous No.17689630]

>>17689610
>the ebil nazi website
um sweaty this is 4channel.org, not to be confused with the ebil nazi website 4chan.org. I appreciate they're very similar but misconceptions like that need to be cleared up so as not to paint all of us with such a broad brush.
besides, unless you have an in with the slowly dying out publishing industry, you're probably going to end up posting your shit online as well. I don't care how high you're aiming.

[Anonymous No.17689638]

>>17689630
>slowly dying out publishing industry
>more books are traditionally published now than ever before

wut

Even the biggest of plebs view selfpublishing as a laughable meme.

[Anonymous No.17689690]

>>17689638
Then why is it gaining traction?

[Anonymous No.17689820]

>>17689690
>Then why is it gaining traction?
>a laughable meme
>gaining traction
>absolutely no bar to entry or effort required for amazon to shit out a printed version of your 'totally unique queer/lgbt space opera high fantasy sanderson ripoff'

Yeah. It's anyone's guess why self-publishing might be popular among the uninspired layman.

[Anonymous No.17689835]

>>17689820
It's okay, anon, even at your best, you would have been John Green and not Faulkner, Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, etc.

So, don't be mad at people who accept their place.

[Anonymous No.17689844]

>>17689835
>mad at people who settle for less and are content with mediocrity.

Don't mistake pity for anger.

[Anonymous No.17689867]

>>17689610
Oh christ you peterpuffer nobody cares if you post on 4chan's literature board. As long as you aren't calling people fudgepacking niggerlovers in the same post.

[Anonymous No.17689881]

>>17689528
penis in assholes are very important, bleeding is important, shitwater leaking down cocks is important

[Anonymous No.17689897]

>>17689844
Writing is a meme at this point, everyone can see it. I don't know why you refuse to see it. Maybe because you're a pseudo-intellectual and deluded yourself into thinking you can be like the authors of old. But traditional publishing is dying out. And Alternative publishing taking its place.

[Anonymous No.17689902]

>>17689867
t. has no idea of what literary agents are like

[Anonymous No.17689917]

>>17689897
>I want things to get worse overall to make myself feel more adequate about my absolute dearth of talent. Everyone should come down to my level.

k

[Anonymous No.17689936]

>>17689902
t. accusing me of what he himself is guilty of
Also
>anyone here
>getting tradpubbed within a relevant timeframe

[Anonymous No.17689943]

>>17689917
Fine, anon, don't see the writing on the wall. Keep wasting your life in a dying industry.

[Anonymous No.17689965]

>>17689844
Serious Dunnig Krueger. Why don't you post a snippet of your writing here? Doesn't have to be a relevant project if you're afraid of being cancelled.
Right now you're just shitting liquid feces all over the thread.

[Anonymous No.17690003]

>>17689902
how would someone even find you on an anonymous website where posts are temporary

[Anonymous No.17690018]

>>17690003
lit is archived, but if yu think a literary agent is searching warosu or that she can somehow find your post by googling your manuscript 35 characters at a time, or by using any plagiarism software which doesn't scrape every website on the internet, especially 4chan archives...

[Anonymous No.17690024]

>>17690003
>he lacks critical information

[Anonymous No.17690025]

>>17689965
He's not going to post. They never do.

[Anonymous No.17690119]

>>17689965
>>17690025
It's still a rough, but serviceable. Tear it to shreds if you want.

“I’m not good at comforting people.” Trent said, walking over to the bed and sitting down next to Jonah. “But I want to try.” He rested a hand on the man’s side, feeling the cold leather of his jacket and trying to perceive the warmth underneath.

They stayed like that for a moment before Jonah turned over to face Trent. And for the first time, Trent saw the pain hiding behind a mask of confidence and anger. He looked into his eyes with their amber tint, and brought a hand up to caress his unflinching countenance. The touch did little to ease the clear hurt he was feeling as Jonah stared through him, unphased. But Trent persisted and wrapped an arm around the older man’s waist, laying down and pulling himself in close.

Despite their difference in size, the young man made an attempt to hold him and felt a shudder run through the older man’s large body. Jonah’s hand reached up to stroke the side of Trent’s face in the same way as he closed his eyes. Trent could see that the hand was stained with dirt and dried blood, but did not back away from its touch. He ignored the grim reality of it and leaned into the filthy, calloused palm.
Even then, he could feel warmth − that little spark of life and meaning − compelling him to strive. It was the kind of subtle warmth that spoke of a love willing to be, that spoke of the tenderness the older man so seldom let breach the surface of his stony exterior. It was the touch of humanity in a vicious animal that they now both shared.

Rather than give in to more carnal desires as they had previously, the two men held one another in silence. Alone together is what they were. And that is how they would stay, until another move was made to turn a harsh and unforgiving world to their favor. Tender caresses and unspoken words were their shared language as they laid there for a time, hating and loving one another in secret. But the lack of sound, the stillness of their bodies, and their closed eyes made that world around them seem all the more vast and uncompromising.

[Anonymous No.17690139]

>>17690119
this is before they're sent to hell, right? If its after I think you should dedicate a little more description to the smell of brimstone in addition to the astroglide

[Anonymous No.17690145]

I really need to find an IRL writing group, or at least one where I can put my name to my work.

[Anonymous No.17690165]

>>17690145
Are you just going to repeat this every thread?

[Anonymous No.17690191]

>>17681492
>role their eyes

[Anonymous No.17690203]

My writing has come to a complete standstill in the wake of my main inspiration being arrested and (presumably) imprisoned by the Chinese government. I feel creatively dead, and anything I do want to write is mean and spiteful.

[Anonymous No.17690205]

>>17690203
Write about blowing up and killing Chinese government officials.

[Anonymous No.17690206]

>>17690203
Just write.

[Anonymous No.17690213]

>>17690165
It's the first time I posted it, so maybe. I've not decided yet.

[Anonymous No.17690217]

>>17690213
Well, stop. We don't need more of this shit.

[Anonymous No.17690221]

Sitting in query purgatory, help. I just want someone professional to tell me my writing is shit. I already know the format isn't profitable unless you are writing Amish or LGBTQBIPOC VR Romance. Just please, tell me its shit and to get a real job so I can self publish already.

[Anonymous No.17690222]

One of the chapters in my book is about 10x longer than any other chapter but I can't seem to find the right place to cut it without messing up the flow. This feels wrong to me somehow.

[Anonymous No.17690231]

>>17690203
Step one, go to China. Step two, say the CPP are anti-democratic dogs. There you go, make that the last thing on your bucket list.
Don't feel sorry for your self feel sorry for those with unachievable dreams.

[Anonymous No.17690235]

>>17687918
when you wrote this story did you enjoy creating suffering, creating characters that live in pain and ugliness. Did you think it was smart that he killed himself in the end? Did you think it was smart he was pleading to God while doing it?

[Anonymous No.17690289]

>>17690145
>blogs
bro I have needs and wants to
please subscribe

[Anonymous No.17690325]

>>17688928
>in which Anon becomes a Chaos Magickian by accident

[Anonymous No.17690334]

>>17690289
It has nothing to do with blogs, stfu. Writing groups are extremely useful for writers. The ability to get together with cool people and bounce ideas back and forth, and make connections with like-minded people who are also interested in the industry, is indispensable.
This place works a bit, but 4chan's bad reputation and how utterly stupid you'd be if you ever put your true name and work in one of these threads means you're not really getting the writing group experience.
I mostly come here to chat shit and casually discuss writing anyway, not look for genuine feedback.

[Anonymous No.17690358]

>>17690334
I really need to have sex with an IRL girl
I really need to practice with IRL tools
I really need to study at an IRL school

what? no I AM NOT blogging, these are just closed statements about myself

[Anonymous No.17690385]

>>17690358
You're an absolute fag.

[Anonymous No.17690421]

>>17690385
and you're one of those people that cause writing groups to dissolve and break up because you're self centered mentality that can't read a room
>hey guys, so about my latest work
>no we can't talk about something else for once, it's very helpful for me to have you stroke my cock
writing groups are full of socially stunted retards like you. people that prioritize literature and writing technique above their own projects are rare as fuck
go and be among your own autistic kind

[Anonymous No.17690477]

>>17690421
Holy shit, imagine reading this from >>17690334
You come across as the kind of cat lady gatekeeper who *actually* kills groups.

[Anonymous No.17690482]

>>17690217
everybody clap, anon saved the thread

[Anonymous No.17690489]

>>17689835
>John Green
Say what you will about John Green, he's the only one of the four you mentioned who's even posting and working on writing.

[Anonymous No.17690492]

>>17690489
I laughed

[Anonymous No.17690542]

Sorry in advance for the blogpoast.

Today I wrote more dialogue than I have in the past three weeks. A couple of characters I was worried about maybe not having different voices actually turned out to be easy to write, and more than that actually having good banter. That was the easy part.

The hard part was writing a scene about an awkward teenager getting rejected by a girl. It drags some pretty ugly memories out of the closet, and writing about teenage feelings like this just feels... icky. The scene is supposed to be uncomfortable, but it turns out to be uncomfortable to write an uncomfortable scene.

[Anonymous No.17690569]

>>17690119
This is passable at best. Where's the beauty?

[Anonymous No.17690580]

>>17690489
mein gott this post is a breakthrough in /lit/ memetics

[Anonymous No.17690592]

I see some discussion about publishing. It's mostly flinging shit at the other person. We're a literature board, so let's use some critical thinking caps.

Traditional publishing: The holiest of places. Everyone wants to be here. Few people get here. Fewer will have their works studied by future generations. Trad publishing has large overhead costs. They no longer print 1 book as they historically did, they produce ebooks, audiobooks, and (God forbid) games and toys. They sign deals with sponsors and promise your book will fly off shelves. Think about taking out a home loan with a bank. It puts you debt but you justify it because of the positive economic benefits. Then you have the housing crash of 08-09 and you have to sell.

Trad publishing is facing a similar crisis, albeit on a smaller scale. They have to compete with the entirety of the Internet. People no longer feel compelled to read a book for entertainment, they go to social media and read their friends posts for that.

This has given rise to alternative publishing. Did anyone think that YouTubers could become millionaires? Who foresaw supermarket clerks be replaced with self-serve checkouts? The Wandering Inn is absolute shit, but it has probably profited 10x more than a debut novel in its first year. And the profits go to a single entity.

Disrespect self-pubs and web serials all you want. There is evidence that they're disrupting trad publishing.

[Anonymous No.17690639]

>>17690569
>Where's the beauty?
Be more specific

[Anonymous No.17690642]

>>17690334
Ah, yes! The writing group experience.
>Myrtle the Empty-Nester Widow has just come to terms with the hollowness of her life without children, and seeks to fill that void with your precious time and attention. Do house cats live fascinating inner lives? Every week Myrtle tries to convince you that the answer to that question is yes.
>An obese individual of indeterminate gender, who insists that you call them by their LARP name, attempts to exorcise its inner demons by sharing its painstakingly detailed recollection of childhood trauma, which it turns out consists entirely of their parents not being supportive enough when they wanted to dye their hair
>Stick-thin Chris sits smirking in his chair, greasy hair combed back to reveal his enormous forehead, stroking his thin goatee, very proud of having cultivated a very poor imitation of the "Dashing Rogue Intellectual" stock character. Chris trembles like a cold chihuahua whenever he shares his writing with the rest of the group.
>Cynthia: talented athlete, straight-A student, dressed professionally and sitting at pert attention. Blonde hair, blue eyes, perfectly white smile that never fades, even for an instant. She has memorized the first page of results for the Google search "common writing mistakes" and will recite each and every one of them as soon as you finish reading.
>Goth Johnny wants to shock you. Dead babies, rape, heroin. Goth Johnny will try anything to shock you, just short of whipping out his own dick while you're talking. Many of his characters strongly resemble Cynthia. Johnny can recall everything Cynthia has ever said, and takes delight at "exposing her hypocrisy". Johnny visibly tenses up whenever Cynthia laughs at Chris' jokes, even though she laughs at everyone's jokes. Johnny is getting ready to do something desperate. You can just tell.

[Anonymous No.17690678]

>>17690642
I like it, but Goth Johnny and Stick-thin chris are a bit too samey. Maybe if you gave Goth Johnny's physical description it would better diverge them in the readers' minds

[Anonymous No.17690700]

>>17680682
>Any progress on your novels?
Don't even joke.

[Anonymous No.17690711]

I don't fucking remember how to write an intro a story. I have all the elements, I've seen what I've written before, but none of it clicks to me now.
And what is the difference between narrating and telling? How much of it should I include?
I don't understand anything. I've read and written millions of words, but my mind is like a sieve.

[Anonymous No.17690716]

>>17688197
thank you for reading, anon. i try to learn

>>17688015
>the dialogue is convincing
really? thanks, but do you mean only that pic or the other dialogue in the story too?

>There is too great a pause between the first line of dialogue and the last.
>Bring them closer together.
that i means i should cut down the description, right? or move it somewhere else

thanks for reading and giving feedback, anon

[Anonymous No.17690731]

>>17690716
>but do you mean only that pic
Yeah. didnt get a chance to read all of it.

[Anonymous No.17690738]

>>17690592
>Disrespect self-pubs and web serials all you want. There is evidence that they're disrupting trad publishing.
This is the logical evolution of publishing if you ask me. All other media forms have been disrupted and more or less autonomized. Someone just needs to make a grubhub app for self-publishing that handles the whole process with a computer program and that will normalize it. With a little help from marketing the cultural perspective will shift and given time it will no longer be seen as the option for last resort for those who couldn't cut it in the traditional publishing world.

The fact is that not everything that doesn't get traditionally published is low quality. These are businesses. Cost analyses go into everything they do. They have target markets in mind and they have to bet on what people want to read not on what has literary merit in itself.

[Anonymous No.17690755]

>>17690711
I think narration and telling is the difference between these.
>The knight went on a quest. Now, that quest was quite hard so the knight packed a sword, spear and armored his horse. Then, at a crack of dawn, when it wasn't hot, he set out and suddenly stopped. - Oh wait, said the knight, - I forgot to pack something else. .


>Knight packed the sword, spear and left to the stables. He put armor on his horse and got on. It was the crack of dawn, a rare time of day when he didn't sweat under armor. -Oh wait said the knight and stopped near the well - I forgot something else

[Anonymous No.17690805]

>>17690738
I would argue that self-publishing has already been fully realized via Amazon. The true issue seems to be that all the auxillary functions which are typically handled by large publishing houses (marketing, cover design, editing) haven't caught up and as a result, beginning writers simply don't have the tools to compete. So yeah, altpub books might be able to equal tradpub in terms of quality, but almost any individual altpub book is going to be of lower quality than if it had gone through a large publishing house.

[Anonymous No.17690814]

>>17690592
true, all true. but consider television and its longevity. it will take another generation at least for it to fully convert to a new form. traditionally published materials have a history 1000x longer, so I think you're underestimating its staying power severely.

[Anonymous No.17690835]

>>17690805
>but almost any individual altpub book is going to be of lower quality than if it had gone through a large publishing house
no question. the big factor is editing. Its one thing for an author to write their novel, take a number of editing passes and then publish it. Its another to have a professional editor spend a dedicated amount of time polishing the hell out of it after its already been edited by the author.

[Anonymous No.17690842]

>>17690639
It lacks beauty, specifically a poetic grasp of the language. It's straightforward and kind of boring. It would serve within a larger narrative, but needs a beautiful frame to keep the slog from setting in.

[Anonymous No.17690850]

>>17690842
>It lacks beauty
Again, be more specific.

Define "beauty" in this context. Because that's a very subjective term.

[Anonymous No.17690865]

Has anyone read this? Is it any good?

[Anonymous No.17690887]

>>17690850
It lacks a poetic grasp of the language. It's functional but doesn't leap. Think Nabokov or Bradbury.

[Anonymous No.17690964]

>>17690850
>“I’m not good at comforting people.” Trent said, walking over to the bed and sitting down next to Jonah.
This is clunky. Names are awkward things that demand attention. Also the images you focus on within the scene make the scene, the boring act of walking to a bed should not be a focus at all.
>“But I want to try.” He rested a hand on the man’s side, feeling the cold leather of his jacket and trying to perceive the warmth underneath.
Cut the wording in half here.

>They stayed like that for a moment before Jonah turned over to face Trent.
Again, this is clunky because of the names. Reframe the scene so you do not need names.

>And for the first time, Trent saw the pain hiding behind a mask of confidence and anger. He looked into his eyes with their amber tint, and brought a hand up to caress his unflinching countenance.
This is cringy and borderline prolix. Don't use countenance so casually.
>The touch did little to ease the clear hurt he was feeling as Jonah stared through him, unphased. But Trent persisted and wrapped an arm around the older man’s waist, laying down and pulling himself in close.
Show don't tell. "touch did little... stared through him". I still have no idea which character is acting. Its not my reading comprehension, its your writing.

>Despite their difference in size, the young man made an attempt to hold him and felt a shudder run through the older man’s large body.
Clarity is all over the place. You would not need to put "large body" if you framed these micro scenes better.

>Jonah’s hand reached up to stroke the side of Trent’s face in the same way as he closed his eyes.
GET ON WITH IT. WHATS THE POINT OF THE SCENE? You cant ask the audience to dwell on the intimacy while recycling the same micro scene over and over again.

>Trent could see that the hand was stained with dirt and dried blood, but did not back away from its touch. He ignored the grim reality of it and leaned into the filthy, calloused palm.
The tail end of this is redundant, we know the hand is dirty. Drop the filthy, its clunky and slows down the sentence. Im not even going to touch the show/tell aspect of "grim reality of it".

>Even then, he could feel warmth − that little spark of life and meaning − compelling him to strive. It was the kind of subtle warmth that spoke of a love willing to be, that spoke of the tenderness the older man so seldom let breach the surface of his stony exterior. It was the touch of humanity in a vicious animal that they now both shared.
You've used warmth too many times here. Simplify your sentences, it rambles. Half the wordcount. Intensify the image.

[Anonymous No.17690981]

well, it's official. my friends think my writing is dogshit

I've written two novels so far. Haven't even tried to get either of them published. Now I'm pretty certain I'm not going to try. I know they say you regret the shots you don't take but everything I've ever regretted is something cringey I did or said. I don't want to set myself up for that again

[Anonymous No.17690982]

>>17690964
I also wanted to say that this is written like Middle Grade.

[Anonymous No.17690986]

>>17690981
Post a snippet you are proud of. I'll be brutal.

[Anonymous No.17690993]

>>17690986
Fuck no. Why the fuck would I want to get more beat down than I already am?

[Anonymous No.17691019]

>>17690993
Because it is good to know for certain. Your novel-writing days could be ladder rungs towards something better. It takes discipline to write a novel. Discipline translates to many, many things you could pursue. I can drive the final nail if you want, it could give closure.

[Anonymous No.17691033]

>>17680682
other forums than /lit/?

[Anonymous No.17691036]

https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/37998/wish-mountain

Seven chapters are out which makes a full arc if you want to gauge whether the story is for you, you can see how I end an arc (I hope) satisfyingly before starting the next arc.

Two things:

1) I'm not happy with my synopsis as I've mentioned before. I added an arc-one synopsis to rectify it a bit, but I need to get the ADHD readers on RR to give it a chance. I have very boomer tastes so it is hard for me to judge what works from a salesman's point of view.

2) I realise my story has a lot of 'temporals' like 'once' and 'was' and 'afterward' etc. I personally like them but I'll need to trim a lot of it I think. Temporals, trying to dictate the reader's sense of time in the narrative, is seen as a bad thing by modern readers. But I really hate the alternative which is added in filler words like 'squatted' or 'rusted' or two-syllable words that just read as bland in comparison. I would rather say 'old shackles' than 'rusted shackles'. I feel 'old' gives a comfier feel than 'rusted'. I dunno.

[Anonymous No.17691052]

>>17690993
Because its entirely possible that your friends have no idea what they're talking about, and also that you might be able to improve with proper guidance.

[Anonymous No.17691070]

>>17691019
fuck it. a final nail is sounding nice right about now. just fucking finish me off

https://pastebin.com/ihyQqvCF

[Anonymous No.17691075]

>>17691070
Your friends were right.

[Anonymous No.17691092]

>>17691075
yeah, i figured. as far as final nails go that was kind of anticlimactic.

fuck it. I tried. Maybe I can try to be less of an embarrassment in the next life.

[Anonymous No.17691128]

>>17691070
Jesus Christ. You have a lot of adjectives and they're weak in the narrative. We've given good advice in this thread and the last. Here they are again.

>>17677817
>>17682824
>>17688117

[Anonymous No.17691139]

>>17691070
Use less cliche. Otherwise, this isn't that bad. I expected much worse. Remember: a novel is a greasy cup of noodles tied together with poetry.

>Now, some people are of the opinion that cooking as an art form is a methodical ritual one performs in front of a stove...I proved that point by reaching into the bag of potato chips and messily crumbling a handful over the ramen.

This is the best passage by far.

I am a negative person, here are a few parts I cringed at.
>force more inescapable than the pull of a black hole

>I was looking for a wolf among huskies
I know you are proud of this. In any context outside of 4chan, it would probably be good. To me, here, it just reeks of furry projecting.

>I made my selection, and indeed,
Cut the 'and indeed' here.

[Anonymous No.17691149]

>>17691128
>>17691139

thanks. I appreciate the advice, but I think I'm done with this. If writing two full novels hasn't made me a decent writer yet I don't think anything else will

[Anonymous No.17691165]

>>17691149
Whatever you decide to do, keep producing.

And another thing to remember: most people have shit taste.

[Anonymous No.17691189]

>>17691165
>producing.
does going to work, doing my job and occasionally taking a shit count?

I'm going to be honest, if nobody's getting anything out of it and it takes a lot of work it's not really worth doing. I'm happier off not being an embarrassment

[Anonymous No.17691210]

>>17691070
Honestly - it's bad, but not in a way that I'd advise someone to stop writing. You understand scene structure - you have a POV character, a goal, a conflict, and a "yes, but" resolution to that conflict. The central issue here is that the conflict of not being able to find a cashier is very short, and the lead up is comparatively long. You could drastically shorten the beginning:

>My head throbbed as I dragged my bag up the stairs and out onto the sidewalk. Walking on concrete felt like running on sand. It was all I could do not to lay down right there and sleep it off, but I knew it'd be two minutes before a distracted socialite dug a heel into my backside. That, and the hunger gnawing at my insides.

>I made it to the corner bodega. The bells above the door jingled as I entered, but no one greeted me.

Be merciless with what you've written and ask yourself if it adds anything to the reader's understanding of the story. If you said that the POV character's head is throbbing, do you need a follow-up sentence stating that he is disoriented and that his vision is fuzzy? You might, but only if that extra detail is used in the future - like if he mistakes a stranger for an old friend. Another issue I see is that the conflict within the scene is without tension. The character has no real opposition getting to the store. The conflict lies in his attempt to pay when no one is there. Try showing him peeping into back rooms and getting increasingly frustrated with the lack of a store attendant before finally giving up. If he's a fantastically honest individual, use it as an opportunity to demonstrate that.

>Now, some people are of the opinion that cooking as an art form...I proved that point by reaching into the bag of potato chips and messily crumbling a handful over the ramen.

If this paragraph is meant to introduce the character's fascination with cooking, it fails. As a reader, I have trouble believing that such a person would crumble chips over ramen and narrate it to an onlooker as an act of culinary excellence. I would find some way to write this in a way that an actual person would say to another human being. Phrase it sarcastically, with a down-on-his-luck guy eating the cheapest crap he can and sardonically passing it off as a gourmet meal. Or if he has a pathologically childish food palette, make him slightly embarrassed about his actions but trying to justify the combination to the reader as decent food.

[Anonymous No.17691215]

So I've set aside ~350 for my first ebook. Part of that is for the cover(I've found a good proces that'll cost 150 at the most), the rest is for ads. I'll edit it myself combined with feedback. Can't justify that cost for a book that might not sell 100 copies.
Any tips on ads? I know the best ad is having more books written and I do plan on having this trilogy done by August of next year.

[Anonymous No.17691235]

>>17691215
Don't release until all three are done. In the mean time, save up money for really good cover art, and for the love of God some kind of editing.

[Anonymous No.17691243]

>>17691210
anon, I wrote that shit two years ago and I've only gotten worse since. My spark already burned out a while ago. If there was nothing there to begin with then what's there now is shameful to even think about.

[Anonymous No.17691252]

>>17691189
>I'm going to be honest, if nobody's getting anything out of it and it takes a lot of work it's not really worth doing.

Like life? Seriously, get the fuck off 4chan of all places and start querying agents. If you get denied, you know.

Stephanie Meyer has an agent. People have shit taste.

And to anyone else on here lurking who is working on something creative: get the fuck off the internet and especially 4chan. I made a mistake coming here. I should be working on my middle grade, but no.

[Anonymous No.17691256]

>>17691235
I might could swing some line editing from Fiverr but 5000 is just bad business. I plan on having an alpha and beta round of readers.I'm realizing though that despite all of the hullabaloo about Trad publishers marketing your book the biggest hurdle is actually getting this shit edited.
Also your idea of writing all three prior to releasing one is objectively good but I would like to gauge general interest before I commit 180k words to something, although the first two are basically twin novels so I'll probably write them in tandem.

[Anonymous No.17691272]

>>17684640
>>17685530
Respond to me right now
I need critique

[Anonymous No.17691273]

>>17691252
anon, my own friends think I'm dogshit, and they've heard like 70% of my book read to them. you guys have only confirmed it. multiple times in fact, and on a number of different segments segments

you're saying stephanie meyer has an agent, but stephanie meyer is a fucking laughingstock. If I had to live with her reputation I'd kill myself. I'm probably doing that already without it. what do I have to gain?

[Anonymous No.17691283]

>>17691210
You bumbling through the forest mistaking every stunted bush for a failed tree. You are nitpicking when we lack context. The scene is fine with some scattered heavy-handedness.

[Anonymous No.17691285]

>>17690835
I wonder if it would be possible to program an editor AI bot. There must be able to encode rules and suggestions at this point to economize syntax and so on.

[Anonymous No.17691294]

>>17691070
Alright, now I feel bad. I was the first reply. I actually did enjoy reading it, in fact I thought it was quite good and that you were just fishing for praise. I gave the most curt negative response I could without actually having to specify anything I thought was bad. It looks like that probably isn't the case, so I apologize for any undue distress I may have contributed to. Obviously it needs editing, but that isn't a bad thing. I hope you keep practicing your craft. God bless.

[Anonymous No.17691299]

>>17691273
Stephanie Meyer is a decamillionaire with a reputation for selling millions of books.

[Anonymous No.17691302]

>>17691272
It'd make a great opening for a bizarro novel with a little bit more clarity. Don't overdo the clarity, though.

[Anonymous No.17691309]

>>17691273
Your own friends don't fucking write novels. I do.

[Anonymous No.17691310]

>>17691252
>middle grade
Nice. I'm thinking about taking a MG as my next project. It'll be a redo of a shitty old story I wrote back in 2018, now that I have more writing experience. I've already written most of the first chapter and it feels like remeeting an old flame.

[Anonymous No.17691318]

>>17691273
>stephanie meyer is a fucking laughingstock
On 4chan. What do you want from life? Praise from 4chan or comfort in knowing you created something that people liked? It doesn't take much to make something that people like.

[Anonymous No.17691321]

>>17691318
I want to be like the writers of old.

[Anonymous No.17691326]

>>17691294
anon, just stop. nobody's buying it

>>17691299
so are the kardashians

>>17691309
my own friends are other aspiring novelists like me

>>17691318
>On 4chan
she's a laughingstock everywhere. even the girls who grew up reading it are ashamed of liking her now

[Anonymous No.17691343]

>>17691326
You're the type who can't take a compliment with a gun to their head, huh?

[Anonymous No.17691346]

>>17691326
She still made millions, who gives a fuck about reputations.

[Anonymous No.17691352]

>>17691285
>https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/08/robot-wrote-this-article-gpt-3
They exist but they're not ready for public consumers yet. You may have also noticed programs like MS Word making aggressive suggestions as well. Give it a few more years and everyone will have an AI to help with their writing. These forthcoming days will be truly dark.

[Anonymous No.17691359]

>>17691321
Lmfao, get fucking real. The Novel as an art-form has been solved. It peaked 50-100 years ago, seriously. You lack the contextual underpinnings that made those novelists and their novels so great. The novel as high-art is dead. Read any well published Pulitzer prize winning pretentious wank to see that.

[Anonymous No.17691362]

>>17691343
a compliment by someone who already insulted my writing and then only complimented it half an hour later after admitting they felt bad? why would I believe it?

>>17691346
I don't give two shits about money. I have enough to live off of. I don't need more

[Anonymous No.17691372]

>>17691362
You may not be a dogshit writer but I am surprised that you know anyone who's willing to put up with your teenage moodiness.

[Anonymous No.17691393]

>>17691372
you literally admitted you only complimented me because you felt bad for me. I don't know how you think compliments work, but that ain't it

[Anonymous No.17691397]

>>17680682
I'm working on revising my novel and having a hard time with rewriting/thinking it's complete shit.

Any Anon's write anything like a memoir or personal creative non-fiction? I have a story that got rejected from NYtimes "modern love" about my experiences coming out of an orthodox religion and finding love and that person committing suicide. I feel like the story can be good, and I'd like to rewrite it, but I don't really know how to frame it especially when there are big time gaps. Probably short story length. Anyone had any experience with anything similar?

[Anonymous No.17691403]

>>17691393
I aint said shit about your work homie.

[Anonymous No.17691405]

>>17691362
Then stop being fucking anal about writing. Its a hobby.

[Anonymous No.17691406]

>>17691372
This. You're writing isnt nearly as bad as your defeatist attitude.

I wrote a novel for my dying grandmother who loves stephen king.

I wrote a novel for my wife. Im writing middle grade for my 9month old daughter to read.

You remind me of me at 22-23. Angry. Take a break from writing. One day, when a plot materializes from misheard song lyrics and nags at you for weeks, you'll know its time to pick the pen back up again.

[Anonymous No.17691423]

>>17691359
Yeah just waiting for my computer to tell me the sentence I am writing "is culturally insensitive. Please consider using gender neutral words."

I actually did read about a startup that does just this. Its aimed at business communications. So that press releases or whatever don't end up causing the company to get canceled or whatever. It basically enforces politically correct newspeak. Terrible.

[Anonymous No.17691431]

>>17691405
it wasn't just a hobby for me. I did it because it was my dream to inspire people.

[Anonymous No.17691432]

>>17691423
Then self-publish.

[Anonymous No.17691436]

>>17691423
Grammarly is great for line editing if you keep it on an extremely short leash and tell it to fuck off with the tone policing.

[Anonymous No.17691439]

>>17691431
>. I did it because it was my dream to inspire people.
What are you? Jesus Christ? Writing in this day of age is just a hobby on the side.

[Anonymous No.17691475]

>>17691439
I didn't mean religiously or anything. I just meant I wanted people to think "hey, this is a cool story, I want to write something like this." In retrospect that's kind of unrealistic when 99% of novels don't even get published, let alone make an impact on the reader

[Anonymous No.17691507]

>>17691475
If the only thing you get from posting in this thread is a tempering of expectations I will consider myself successful. Make it your goal to inspire 1 person with your writing.

[Anonymous No.17691521]

Its my magnum anus

[Anonymous No.17691550]

>>17691070
This just happens to be written in my least favorite tone. I'm not sure if there's a word for it, but like the author wants to be snarky and serious at the same time and somehow it ends up being less than either. It's a tone that definitely screams amateur to me, but I'd have a difficult time explaining why.
>It was all I could do not to lie down in the gutter, fall asleep and hope that the general populace had enough common decency not to park on top of me, but the growling in my stomach was a force more inescapable than the pull of a black hole, and so as fast as my legs could carry me I made my way towards the nearest source of grub.
Brevity is the soul of wit. Very often, amateur writers attempt to inject humor into their stories without actually coming up with jokes. So instead they do things that might more accurately be described as "silly" as opposed to "funny." Such as, in this passage, it seems as if you attempt to get a chuckle by exaggerating the situation. It could almost work, provided you cut out of some of the words and moved the punchline (the character is waxing apocalyptic about being hungry instead of enduring a situation more appropriate to the feelings he expresses) to the end, where it belongs. As for cutting down the words:
>a force more inescapable than the pull of a black hole
The words "black hole" conjure up a very specific image in most reader's minds: a collapsed dark star which possesses a gravitational pull from which even light cannot escape. Anything which refers back to any of the concepts mentioned in the definition are superfluous.
Try:
>a black hole of hunger in my stomach
On the subject of word choice, I like how the narrator said his vision was "going fuzzy." It's a perfect set-up, because one assumes that he's just weak from hunger and not that he is watching his world turn to yarn before his very eyes.
And one final note: it seems odd that the narrator immediately assumes barking dogs somewhere in his neighborhood are a direct threat to his life.
I'd urge you to consider the advice posted here, rewrite this story, and repost in a later thread at some point.

[Anonymous No.17691559]

>>17691507
I guess the sephanie meyer example does serve a useful societal purpose of helping aspiring writers escape their self-doubt. I just wish I could do something more glamorous

>>17691550
might take a while. it's a 160k word novel

[Anonymous No.17691564]

>>17691559
>I just wish I could do something more glamorous
Stop being pretentious.

[Anonymous No.17691590]

>>17691559
actually, shit, is that really a good thing to do? lowering the bar doesn't really lower expectations. Assuming I actually inspired someone to write and they were bad at it (which is far more likely than them being good) I'd probably be responsible for talking them into causing themselves more pain. that doesn't sound like a good thing to do

[Anonymous No.17691620]

>>17691326
Bro at this point I'm starting to think your issues run much deeper than weak prose.
>so are the kardashians
Not really a fair comparison. Stephanie Meyer had a vision, she worked to make it a reality, and it paid off in a big way. Writing a series of novels, even if they're not very good, is no mean feat. It requires dedication and a genuine belief in what you're doing, which is something that most people lack. Twilight's not high art, but the world wants comfy trash reads just as much as it wants groundbreaking works full of rich symbolism and deep themes. The world wants what you could give it, if only you'd take a step back, gain a little perspective, and take some time to develop your skills. It sounds trite and cliche, but when you're ready to leave this world, would you like to look back at a life spent submitting to limitations you never bothered to test?

[Anonymous No.17691650]

>>17689032
I read some of your first chapter. I'll be blunt. I don't give a shit about a random bearded dude. I don't give a shit about anyone thus far or their conversation about gambling. I didn't get my hook so I'm leaving.

>>17683011
Sounds awesome actually

>>17683117
Slightly interesting concept that could have been written in 4 lines

>>17684640
I don't understand what's going on. Also, I don't give a shit despite trying to. All I want a new interesting concept to read about. I don't care if you use fancy words or not

>>17685374
First one sounds really fun. I didn't get the point of the second one nor am I interested

>>17685523
If it's interesting then sure. First I've got to care about your characters

>>17685818
Go for something new and original. No one wants boring pseudo intellectual trash

>>17686621
First genuinely interesting read. Good job! Link?

>>17686672
Where's the interesting part? Do you want people to read or hack yourself off?

>>17687918
I don't give a shit about the watchman. I don't understand what's your story about. Most importantly if you want to jack yourself off there's pornhub.com

>>17687952
Now that I finished reading the entire thing, I can tell you it was boring throughout the entire thing. Nothing interesting or original. No hook.

>>17688928
Premise has been done a million times and it never improves

>>17690222
So keep it as is

>>17691036
Surprisingly interesting despite the not so inspired premise

[Anonymous No.17691666]

>>17691620
Why settle for mediocrity?

[Anonymous No.17691677]

>>17691620
honestly, I don't have any regrets involving things I didn't do in my life. All my regrets are things I've done. I spend a so much time being stressed about writing –I'm not good enough at it, I'm not enjoying it as much as I used to, I'm not getting things written at a reasonable rate – maybe I'll be unhappy on my death bed but who isn't? I was already planning on killing myself as soon as mom died. why should I spend so much of the rest of my time unhappy when I can just give up and enjoy getting three-to-eight extra hours of sleep a night

[Anonymous No.17691682]

>>17691521
I liked it, but for all of the redundant statements. It does sound like it was written by an AI

[Anonymous No.17691718]

>>17691036
Good work, but maybe web serial format is a bit too demanding? 7 chapters in a month+ is lagging is pretty slow pacing.

[Anonymous No.17691727]

>>17691718
True. The thing is I have a lot of the second arc written my editor is just busy and does it for free, so I can't really speed up the process much. I'm not going to abandon the story, it will take years to finish the entire series. So fuck it if it takes a while I suppose.

[Anonymous No.17691741]

>>17691521
I snoozed. It's all tell. I don't know how to make falling into an anus more exciting.

[Anonymous No.17691783]

>>17691650
Thanks mass crit anon. It might be a bad thing to rely on but it's encouraging to know someones opinion
>>17686621
This was just a practice flash. I'll probably expand on it sometime though, it's a fun setting and I'd hate to leave it to waste

[Anonymous No.17691809]

>>17691783
You're welcome. I want the world to produce more gold and less shit. The best way to do this is to not have mercy in my criticism.

[Anonymous No.17691890]

>>17690642
>tfw am literally Stick-thin Chris
Why does my name have this stereotype attached

[Anonymous No.17691912]

>>17691890
eat a burger, go to the gym, become a man and stand up for yourself you total fucking chris.

[Anonymous No.17691973]

>>17691912
h-heh fuck you Chad, amirite bros?
I had a friend I was going to the gym with before the meme-virus. I lost 15 pounds over the 2~ years and am back to under 100

[Anonymous No.17691977]

>>17691650
>I read some of your first chapter. I'll be blunt. I don't give a shit about a random bearded dude. I don't give a shit about anyone thus far or their conversation about gambling. I didn't get my hook so I'm leaving
Appreciate the feedback, changed up the first line and added a touch a bit down to better give a hook.

[Anonymous No.17692118]

Opening paragraph of my novel, bros, what you think?

>The desert is inevitable. As she crawled, she knew it was so, coming over each little crest to see it still stretched out ahead, eternal and unyielding, each fall and rise of the land an unending cycle of hope followed by inevitable sorrow, for there was no end to it. Following back the frenzied tracks and fading footprints in the sand, the blood was already drying, sucked into the parched earth to bear no witness that it was ever spilled.

[Anonymous No.17692136]

>>17690642
You forgot Biracial Rachel who insists on making a quarter of the words in her story Spanish and refuses to write anything but dull personal essays.

[Anonymous No.17692180]

>writing a scene that I'm fairly certain I will edit out entirely anyways
You'd think knowing this would make me write faster.

[Anonymous No.17692184]

>>17691521

[Anonymous No.17692188]

>>17692118
5 words. 46 words. 28 words. bad. the tense doesn't match between 1 and 2. 2 is way too long. following back is stupid. tracks and footprints is redundant, along with a lot of other things. parched earth sucking blood is good but the latter half of the statement is garbled junk. most important problem is I don't care by the middle of sentence 2

[Anonymous No.17692463]

>>17691727
What does your editor even do? I'm not sure if there's any kind of improvement going on

[Anonymous No.17692470]

>>17692463
You should see the state of the prose before she edits it.

[Anonymous No.17692478]

>>17692470
You have my pity. Well, experience is the only way to improve, so keep at it, I guess.

[Anonymous No.17692480]

>>17692478
post your writing :)

[Anonymous No.17693218]

New thread >>17691434

[Anonymous No.17693222]

>>17691741
I second this. Way too much tell, it sounds like a child telling story.

[Anonymous No.17693225]

>>17690731
cheers