Steven Pinker destroyed by classical

[Anonymous No.17663957]

https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2020/07/24/steven-pinkers-the-better-angels-of-our-nature-debunked/
https://anarchy.works/primer.html#toc7 "Homo sapiens would become extinct if we really that violent."

[Anonymous No.17663966]

>>17663957
>"Homo sapiens would become extinct if we really that violent."
what a dogshit argument

[Anonymous No.17663975]

>>17663966
>Political philosophers like Thomas Hobbes and psychologists like Sigmund Freud assumed that civilization and government have a moderating effect on what they saw as people’s warlike and brutal instincts. Pop-culture representations of human origins, like the first scenes of the film 2001: A Space Odyssey or the illustrations in children’s books of hyper-masculine cavemen battling mammoths and sabertooth tigers, provide a picture that can be as convincing as memory: early humans had to fight one another and even battle nature to survive. But if early human life had been as bloody and warlike as our mythology has depicted it, humans would simply have died out. Any species with a reproductive cycle of 15–20 years that usually only produce one offspring at a time simply cannot survive if their chance for dying in any given year is more than a couple percent. It would have been mathematically impossible for Homo sapiens to have survived that imaginary battle against nature and against one another.

[Anonymous No.17663984]

>>17663957
>Homo sapiens would become extinct if we really that violent.
Archeological evidence and science suggest otherwise. We literally waged wars against with Neanderthals and basically exterminated them during 100,000 years
https://sciencex.com/news/2020-11-war-neanderthals-species-supremacy-years.html
https://theconversation.com/war-in-the-time-of-neanderthals-how-our-species-battled-for-supremacy-for-over-100-000-years-148205

[Anonymous No.17664002]

>>17663975
>Mathematically impossible
Citation required. Show me unironically math that proves otherwise.

[Anonymous No.17664013]

>>17663984
If you´re not african you have 4% gene neanderthal,
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/nov/27/bad-luck-may-have-caused-neanderthals-extinction-study
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal_extinction
It was impossible to humans alone to kill all neanderthals,probably a combination of all factors included.

[Anonymous No.17664014]

https://ourworldindata.org/ethnographic-and-archaeological-evidence-on-violent-deaths

[Anonymous No.17664020]

>>17663984
War did not exist prior to the neolithic, i.e. most of human history.

[Anonymous No.17664060]

>>17664014
Neolithic Revolution ≠ human history (98% or all of human history was hunter gatherer)Slavery genocide war disease was not common before agricultural revolution. (Famine was not even common!) https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsbl.2013.0853

[Anonymous No.17664082]

>>17663984
R. Brian Ferguson, professor of Anthropology at Rutgers University–Newark, has challenged Pinker's archaeological evidence for the frequency of war in prehistoric societies, which he contends "consists of cherry-picked cases with high casualties, clearly unrepresentative of history in general."[37] Whereas "[b]y considering the total archaeological record of prehistoric populations of Europe and the Near East up to the Bronze Age, evidence clearly demonstrates that war began sporadically out of warless condition, and can be seen in varying trajectories in different areas, to develop over time as societies become larger, more sedentary, more complex, more bounded, more hierarchical, and in one critically important region, impacted by an expanding state." Ferguson's examination contradicts Pinker's claim that violence has declined under civilization, indicating the opposite is true.
If you want to read his arguments here https://www.academia.edu/3816994/Pinkers_List_Exaggerating_Prehistoric_War_Mortality

[Anonymous No.17664098]

>>17664020
Totally false
https://military.wikia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_warfare
https://www.culture-of-peace.info/books/history/prehistory-war.html
https://archaeology.co.uk/articles/features/bloody-stone-age-war-in-the-neolithic.htm
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_warfare
https://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/stone-age-men-could-kill-one-swing-their-club-009252
>>17664013
>If you´re not african you have 4% gene neanderthal,
How is that relevant? I know some mixing happen and I don't think every single encounter between these group was violent but there was at least some rivalry.
>It was impossible to humans alone to kill all neanderthals,probably a combination of all factors included.
Agree, however humans did play an important role in their disappearence. I posted those articles to show that humans have been violent since forever. Not necessarily to prove your point.

[Anonymous No.17664123]

>>17663957
>if we were really that violent
Why are anarchists like this? They make endless appeals to some mythic prior age where we were actually peaceful. Have they still not gotten over Rousseau? The archeological and anthropological record is absolutely clear that we viciously murdered each other in stateless societies.

[Anonymous No.17664144]

>>17664098
>archaeology
Cringe

[Anonymous No.17664155]

>>17664098
I am talking about Paleolithic not Neolithic. from one of your links ""Property came into existence. No doubt the concept existed in embryonic form among the hunter-gatherers, where each community possessed 'its own' hunting territory. Among farmers, however, the idea of property assumed considerable importance : every farmer had their 'own' fields, their 'own' cattle, their 'own' house and their 'own' tools. At the same time, the other face of property was revealed, for it led to theft, pillage and also war. A community whose harvest had been destroyed by bad weather would be only too easily tempted to go and plunder the barns of a more fortunate neighbouring village community, but the latter would of course defend its possessions by force. Such wars must have been fairly numerous, as is shown by the fact that most Neolithic villages were fortified . . A class of professional warriors gradually came into being, responsible for defending the village while the farmers and shepherds were in the fields. It may well be imagined that initially all able-bodied men took up arms in cases of danger but that soon a few men were made permanently responsible for maintaining security. Such military activities called for a commander, and this role naturally fell to the village chief, whose powers, as noted earlier, thus took on a military character."

[Anonymous No.17664161]

>>17664123
>archeological and anthropological record
Go
Back

[Anonymous No.17664168]

>>17664161
>>17664144
Astonishing arguments from anarchykiddies.

[Anonymous No.17664199]

>>17664082
So, the arguments basically says that war is correlated with civilization and sedentarism? That violence increases with civilization? I will take a deeper look later.

[Anonymous No.17664211]

>>17664199
Yes.it´s not a coincidence that most of "warfare bones" only started in large scales after the neolithic revolution,while scarce in paleolithic.

[Anonymous No.17664251]

>>17664211
this doesn't "debunk Pinker" though, since the salience of this argument is obviously tied to the notion of civilization in the first place. zooming out that far is no longer relevant.

[Anonymous No.17664277]

>>17664251
https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2020/07/24/steven-pinkers-the-better-angels-of-our-nature-debunked/
it´s long but has good arguments.

[Anonymous No.17664326]

>>17663957
>riots everywhere
>people beheaded in western countries' streets
>violent political discourse that allows no reconciliation
everything good look at those graphs, t.pinker

[Anonymous No.17664356]

>>17664211
>most of "warfare bones"
>Dude, most of our evidence comes from times where population was MUCH larger, therefore war came with civilization
Imagine being this retarded holy shit
If basic logic is not enough for you, there are enough pre-bronze age societies to debunk this claim by merely taking a trip to South Ethiopia

[Anonymous No.17664360]

>>17664211
>>17664277
While this shows that war as we know between humans probably was rare befofe the Neolithic/begginings of civilization. How it explains the interspefic violence between humans and Neanderthal? There is evidence that conflict happen between these groups. While I don't think humans were the only cause for their extinction we had an important role in their disappear
https://www.inverse.com/science/how-homo-sapiens-battled-for-supremacy-for-over-100000-years-neanderthals
https://ordonews.com/war-between-humans-and-neanderthals-the-story-of-the-greatest-conflict-in-history/?amp=1
https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1358041/Neanderthals-humans-war-archaeology-news-history-evg
https://www.sciencealert.com/how-neanderthals-and-humans-battled-for-supremacy-for-over-100-000-years
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal_extinction
https://www.livescience.com/7794-human-stabbed-neanderthal-evidence-suggests.html
Also similar behavior has been found in chimpanzees, which we are closely related and yet they are not really "civilazed"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War
https://iflscience.com/plants-and-animals/brutal-chimpanzee-war-was-likely-driven-by-power-ambition-and-jealousy/
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a7XuXi3mqYM
http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20150811-do-animals-fight-wars
https://medium.com/history-of-yesterday/from-1974-to-1978-there-was-a-chimpanzee-war-in-tanzania-76a2314f422

[Anonymous No.17664362]

>>17663957
It just like the climate crap, it's impossible now to seperate real science from ideology. Leftists also deny genetic determinism.

[Anonymous No.17664377]

>>17664362
are you criticizing pinker based on a presumed underlying leftist ideology, let alone the fact that the two sources in OP are criminal to that same suspicion?

[Anonymous No.17664430]

>>17664377
Doesn't matter, as soon as someone who claims to do science comes under suspicion of pushing an agenda, they cease to be scientists, it doesn't matter wether their agenda is right or left wing.

[Anonymous No.17664456]

>>17664161
No. Read something besides Bookchin you pseud.

[Anonymous No.17664479]

>>17664362
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwqIy8Ikv-c

[Anonymous No.17664482]

>>17663957
Pinker is a massive faggot

[Anonymous No.17664491]

>>17664430
>claims to do science
what does this mean to you? what do you think pinker is attempting to write?

[Anonymous No.17664526]

>>17664491
Even if he tries to be objective he like everyone today is under pressure from progressives not to touch certain subjects (race, IQ, impulse control etc).

[Anonymous No.17664536]

>>17664526
are you aware of pinker's the blank slate? this is a rhetorical question of course, since if you'd even heard about it, you wouldn't have posted something so retarded.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17664575]

>>17664479
>Admits evidence
>Refuses to acknowledge the impact.
PragerU gets money for this

>”group three is winning!”
No. Clearly not.

[Anonymous No.17664617]

>>17664575
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZN2jt2cCU4
Guy was paid for this.

[Anonymous No.17664621]

>>17664536
Do you know the meaning of the word 'if' ?
Anyone who still buys into the blank slate theory clearly is not a scientist but neo-marxist propagandist.

[Anonymous No.17664626]

Has someone been deboonked?

[Anonymous No.17664653]

>>17664621
why don't you answer my question about what you mean by "claims to do science" first?
it's not hard to google "steven pinker blank slate" and find out that he agrees with you and wrote a book exactly about that. you should stop arguing with boogeymen in your schizo brain and read a fuckin book

[Anonymous No.17664687]

>>17664653
That shizo allegation would be better directed at Pinker himself who tries to conform to leftist mob pressure and still do 'objective' science.

[Anonymous No.17664708]

>>17664687
the only convincing thing about you is your utter lack of reading comprehension, feigned or not.

[Anonymous No.17664729]

>>17664708
Alas, yours is the curse of the midwit like most lefties.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17664740]

>>17664617
>Look how predictions are inaccurate
>Ignore when they’re proven right
Everyone acknowledges it’s complexity, but only the dense ones plug their ears and say “we can’t know nothing, we can’t know nothing”
Ah, no. He’s not dense. He’s worked for the government before. I’ll bet he’s pretty wealthy for a scientist.

[Anonymous No.17664755]

>>17664729
is this what passes for a good comeback around here now?

[Anonymous No.17664778]

>>17664740
If you get a few predictions right in a chaotic complex system then you got them by dumb luck
We already know that it is mathematically impossible to make such models that are in any way accurate
The arguement that we only have one planet is the only sensible one

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17664866]

>>17664778
From my experience and from what scientists have gathered thus far, the climate is warming. The culprits are not volcanoes but human activity.

But never mind that for a second and consider the other two branches of environmentalism, pollution and and extinction rate. Quite observable, very much in danger, but also fairly ignored.