/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17660366]

>civilization
>society
>we
>human rights
>morality
>ought
>nationality
>race
>family
Can we get some books for these spooks?

[Anonymous No.17660395]

What is the logical conclusion of Stirner’s philosophy? An anarchic society like Somalia?

[Anonymous No.17660440]

>>17660395
Feudal Japan. Buddhism (without spooks) is already close enough to Stirner’s philosophy.

[Anonymous No.17660469]

>>17660440
>>17660366

[Anonymous No.17660490]

>>17660469

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17660801]

>>17660395
Individual freedom

[Anonymous No.17660854]

Eh, this sorta counts.

>The Republic by Plato
>Politics by Aristotle
>Considerations on France by Joseph de Maistre
>Black Skin, White Masks by Frantz Fanon
That's four recommendations. Now stop being a faggot, and go read them.

[Anonymous No.17660914]

>>17660440
Basado

[Anonymous No.17661005]

>>17660801
You MIGHT be able to stay alive if you agree to be my concubine.

[Anonymous No.17663164]

>>17660395
Gypsy lifestyle

[Anonymous No.17663707]

I'd rather solve how to get rid of ego

[Anonymous No.17663743]

>>17663707
death of the ego is a spook

[Anonymous No.17663756]

>>17660801
spook

[Anonymous No.17664807]

>>17660801
So his perception of individual freedom is stealing lol, I guess that explains why you're into it because only beautiful women could commit to a system like that~

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17664832]

>>17664807
I don’t think he ever said steal. That’s just a social perception. He says take, so everyone imagines he advocates deranged criminal behavior. He’s just honest about the state and its ability to steal and call it legal. They’ve got you fooled.

[Anonymous No.17665050]

Childhood is idolizing individualist anarchism. Adulthood is realizing Georgist minarchism makes more sense.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17666136]

>>17665050
>Georgist minarchism makes more sense.
No, that’s just senility

[Anonymous No.17666173]

>>17664832
Individuals are stupid, so we made the State to compensate for this. Even if he was right he proves this point by the fact everyone was fooled. So this "individual freedom" is bad no matter what.

[Anonymous No.17666182]

>>17660366
Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes. Yes you have to read the whole thing. The first few chapters have become incredibly relevant in recent years.
Covers all "spooks" except race and family. I

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17666183]

>>17666173
Not till you start to work how to overcome the stupidity or either states or individuals. And states are stupid.

[Anonymous No.17666214]

>>17666183
>Butterfly: states are stupid
>"Why?"
>Buttefly: . . . *system crashes* *system reboots* B-BECAUSE THEY ARE!

[Anonymous No.17666224]

>>17666173
Individuals are intelligent, because they have to be. Collectives like government make people complacent which opens the door to ignorance, which is slightly less undesirable than stupidity. Oppressive collectives use misinformation ("trust the science!!!!!!) to exploit ignorance and make their members stupid
>>17666183
>states are stupid
States are "currently" stupid but yes

[Anonymous No.17666247]

>>17666183
>>17666224
Go to anarchist paradises like Somalia if that is how you want to live, thanks.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17666288]

>>17666214
Let’s pretend you’re asking the question now.
They’re stupid because they’re inefficient and quite destructive. The majority suffer for the comforts of the few. Pinker is a liar shill for the establishment. After reading a tone of history I feel the experiment has failed and I look forward to something to take its place. We obviously can’t go back like an Ellul, Camatte or Kaczynski would prescribe

>>17666224
Read some history. They’re always stupid.
>>17666247
Or the Chiapas actually. The CIA aren’t there. No. That’s like taking the lottery winner escape. My conscious wouldn’t rest easily at all. I want everyone in a better world

[Anonymous No.17666364]

>>17666288
>The majority suffer for the comforts of the few
So? Become one of the few, then. What does a Stirnerite care for the majority other than how they most benefit him?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17666412]

>>17666364
The few are always undeserving sociopaths and I worry about silly things like quality and length of life. All they want are to accumulate money points and make people bleed. They don’t care if their children or grandchildren die off even. They’d sell their own mother to slavery for a buck.
I don’t want these kinds of people walking on my earth anymore.
Again, pictured >>17664832

[Anonymous No.17666439]

>>17666224
>Individuals are intelligent
We've seen that feral individuals always turn out to have the equivalent mentality of a 3-year-old of a state, and most can't learn to speak when brought back into the state.

[Anonymous No.17666460]

>>17666412
They'll always walk the earth because social psychopaths win. Most of the time they're the one that makes it a contest in the first place. the (forgotten) purpose of states is to leverage psychopaths' predictable need for power and glory behind doing the right thing

[Anonymous No.17666462]

>>17660440
But feudal japan is full of spooks, no?
Families, clans, ancestor worship, divine mandate, etc.

[Anonymous No.17666465]

Oh I see butterfag is here.
Nevermind, thread is worthless.

[Anonymous No.17666468]

>>17666439
Ok, now do the reverse

[Anonymous No.17666476]

>>17666288
Read theory. You dont know what a state is

[Anonymous No.17666499]

The nukes can't fall soon enough

[Anonymous No.17666517]

>>17666476
you can't possibly think this is a useful post. Give your definition of a state and/or what material you think she needs to read

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17666571]

>17666465
>Recognizable conversation? Count me out! (But pay attention to my whining! [please!])

>>17666476
Various forms suck more than others. I like a series of Direct Democratic neighborhoods with a free economy. This would suit a Stirnerist Unique One (“egoist”) quite nicely.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17666581]

>>17666499
Crawl into your microwave

[Anonymous No.17666594]

>>17666412
Underserving how? Because they used their might? Imposed their will?

Your quality of life would improve if you were a member of the few. Those 'money points' would give you the highest quality of life possible. And don't be dramatic, those at the top aren't unfeeling monsters they simply understand how the game of life is played. They have people they love and understand the best way to both protect and benefit them is through the exploitation of the majority. They don't make people bleed simply for the sake of it, they do whatever will best benefit them and those closest to them.

And in response to your picture: the state would only be lost for a short period until another erected itself in the ruins of the last. That's how humans work. You call the state inefficient but I say it is one of if not the most efficient thing humans have ever created; it has survived every ideology, every revolution, every attempt at its usurpation... the only thing that will replace the states of today is a world government (which seems to be an inevitabiltiy.)

Your view of the elites is embarrassingly cartoonish. I expected more from you, butterfly.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17666683]

>>17666594
>Because they used their might?
They didn’t. They hired their might. They establish spooks to fool people. OBVIOUSLY I’M AGAINST THAT. Why wouldn’t I be. Better question is why do you want to lick their boots?
>Those money points
Are legally tendered spooks and ruin the minds us and the lands we live on. Again, I’m after quality and longevity, not hedonistic temporary comforts.
Those at the top are unfeeling. If they felt anything for their fellow man they’d get them off the streets and give them the care they need and make sure nothing of the sort would happen again. But the system makes them slaves to their own game.
> the state would only be lost for a short period. So you better not even tryyyy
Stupid reasoning. Stupid belief in static history.
>Appeal to human nature
>Efficient
People here like to mention how it collapses all the time. It isn’t efficient at all.
>world government
Not a centralized one, no.
>cartoonish
Where’s my essay on the topic?

[Anonymous No.17666774]

>>17666462
Yes, but I would call them somewhat necessary. A clan, a family, etc., gives the individual far more power than he would have on his own - but the individual should not see these principles as shackles on his will; rather, he should see them as auxiliary spooks to draw power from. A collective of individuals that no longer see themselves as individuals are very useful to the individual, as they are more likely to fight and die for those “universals” and thereby increase the individual’s power, leading to new opportunities in property. It really just comes down to seeing the spooks for what they are and acting accordingly.

[Anonymous No.17666863]

>>17664832
Just going to ignore the part where you're complimented?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17666923]

>>17666863
I don’t mind the compliment, but it’s not the reason I’m here.
I want people to awaken and take back what was stolen from them

[Anonymous No.17666932]

>>17666683
>They didn’t. They hired their might.
And? They used their skills, their connections, their money and so on to become men of power, influence and, yes, might. Making people believe in spooks is the ultimate expression of might. Might doesn't just = physical strength, it is might of the mind too.
What makes you think I lick their boots? Because I understand why they have achieved what they have? Because I accept the reality of human behaviour? I would much rather be one of the few than one of the many, let's put it that way.

>Are legally tendered spooks and ruin the minds us and the lands we live on.
What do you mean, then, by quality of life? You're not one of those people who think you'll live happily in the woods or something, are you? I think most moderns underestimate just how much they appreciate these 'hedonistic temporary comforts'. In terms of quality of life and longevity I'd say the few have been rather kind to the many in that they currently live longer and have better lives than ever before.

>Those at the top are unfeeling.
They are not unfeeling but they are not equipped with boundless altruism either. I am sure they care for their family and friends but I doubt very much they care about the exploited workers of the world and whatever other oppressed groups may exist. Why? Because these people are merely oppressors in waiting. There is no sense in empowering potential enemies. You have a very naive view of humanity if you think you will receive much thanks for your altruism - please, I beg you to take your altruism to China and see how they react.

>Stupid reasoning. Stupid belief in static history.
History is not static, no, but states are a natural consequence of tribal hierarchy and I see no reason to believe that humans will suddenly organise themselves contrary to how we have for millennia. You're welcome to try but I think you'll need to convince a few people of some spooks before they'll join you in such an endeavour.

>People here like to mention how it collapses all the time. It isn’t efficient at all.
States are reborn much like phoenixes. Considering how far we have progressed in such a short amount of time I'd say they've been incredibly efficient regardless of the supposed setbacks.

>World Govenment
Yes, it won't be as centralised as states are now but there will still be the few and the many.

[Anonymous No.17666997]

>>17660395

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17667046]

>>17666932
>And? They used their skills
They used their daddies and granddaddies legacy funds. You support spooks.
>Bootlicking
You seem to be supporting them. I don’t need reminding they’re in power or how they hold it. “I would much rather be one” toady bootlicker.
> What do you mean, then, by quality of life?
Freedom takes many shapes for many sorts. High culture, Ataraxia, and earth itself, requires a more leisurely pace. — the minority of pharaohs are lethargically trying to kill many of us as we speak.
>No sense in empowering potential enemies
Which is another good reason to ditch capitalism (They are not equipped with anything like altruism)
>Unnatural things are natural
My point is they’re not stable, never have been, and this hurts vast millions. We can and should do better.
> Yes, it won't be as centralised as states are now but there will still be the few and the many.
A bitcoiner, are we?

[Anonymous No.17667052]

>>17660469
me lately

[Anonymous No.17667094]

>>17667046
The offer to be my concubine is still on the table.

[Anonymous No.17667103]

>>17666997
where did "rest in power" originate and why do i keep seeing.... lets call them challenged individuals, use it so frequently?

[Anonymous No.17667133]

>>17666517
If a particular state comes crashing down, it is because another state superseeded it

[Anonymous No.17667203]

>>17667046
>They used their daddies and granddaddies legacy funds. You support spooks.

Yes, because members of the nobility never change and no one can possibly rise from the lowest ranks to the highest.
I support spooks that will give me power, sure. Objectively I understand that it's all bullshit but why not take advantage of the bullshit?

>You seem to be supporting them.

I don't support them in particular, I would much rather topple them and take their position in the hierarchy as my own.

>Freedom takes many shapes for many sorts
And how do you intend to protect your 'freedom'? Do you think the many will wake up, topple the pharaohs and live happily ever after? A serious question, I'm not sure how you'd achieve such freedom.

>Which is another good reason to ditch capitalism (They are not equipped with anything like altruism)

No economic system will change how humans interact. Ice cream might have different flavours but at the end of the day it's all ice cream.

>My point is they’re not stable, never have been, and this hurts vast millions. We can and should do better.

Stability isn't always desirable. Too much stability leads to boredom and stagnation. Never understimate boredom.
Do you actually care about the millions who are hurt or do you just say you do? And I mean really care. It's an honest question because I simple can't conceive of genuinely caring about millions of people.

> Yes, it won't be as centralised as states are now but there will still be the few and the many.

It would be stupid not to possess some bitcoin but I'm not overly invested in it.

I doubt we'll ever agree on anything, butterfly. For a tripfag you're alright but I think you'll die disappointed.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17667402]

>>17667203
>I support spooks that will give me power
>Not taking it for you and your immediate kin (who would help you out in turn)
>why not take advantage of the bullshit?
>doesn’t realize he’s more taken advantage of

>I would much rather take their place and perpetuate their system
>has yet to notice this is the end of the line

> A serious question
I can only hope so. It would be best for all involved and for any kind of livable future. It will continue to be a struggle, but achievable through effort.

>No economic
Putting wealth in each other, not chips and blips, is what a free economy does. That would rewire our minds a lot.

>NO NO, NOT STABILITY!
Eat your greens. No, I do not advocate a cyborg future of uniformity.
> can't conceive of genuinely caring about millions of people
I haven’t the tears, but I do have the love, so yes, I do care.

> For a tripfag you're alright but I think you'll die disappointed.
Since you’re all only my adopted children, I can imagine brushing such sentiments away and die fairly satisfied.

[Anonymous No.17667556]

>>17667402
>Not taking it for you and your immediate kin (who would help you out in turn)
I don't understand your meaning. My immediate kin (my family) will aid me in my acquisition of power and benefit from it. Thankfully I don't have to fear familial poisonings or literal backstabs very much in this day and age.

>doesn’t realize he’s more taken advantage of
Everyone takes advantage of everyone, I merely aim to be taking advantage of others more than they're taking advantage of me. That's about as much as one can hope for in this world.

>perpetuate their system
Isn't isn't 'their' system, it's the system humanity adopts naturally. You think there is a specific group to point and blame but there really isn't, unless you wish to point the finger at our species as a whole.

>It will continue to be a struggle, but achievable through effort.
I don't believe it is but I would like to see it happen out of pure curiosity.

>That would rewire our minds a lot.
No it wouldn't. every attempt thus far has failed. Your best bet is gene altering or stuff like neuralink.

>No, I do not advocate a cyborg future of uniformity.
Never said you did. My point is that people need a bit of drama and misery in their lives, without it they're empty.

>I haven’t the tears, but I do have the love, so yes, I do care.
I can't relate. I'm also not sure I believe you actually care, but I can't feel what you do so I'll never know if you're telling the truth.

>Since you’re all only my adopted children, I can imagine brushing such sentiments away and die fairly satisfied.
Mummy. <3

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17667657]

>>17667556
>kin
Friends, family, locals you deal with on a daily basis can all be kin (and kith, though an archaic term). The cultivation of relations with them is good for a society.
> Everyone takes advantage of everyone
This is bad for a society
> I would like to see it happen out of pure curiosity.
Takes some effort though.
> No it wouldn't. every attempt thus far has failed
Haha. No, you’re wrong. This happens a lot actually. Christian age people thought differently, slave owners thought differently, misogynists and pacifists and vegans and racists, and on and on. We think different ways because of our environments and their norms. We are not animals and we are discovering things about our brains all the time.

[Anonymous No.17667747]

>NOOOO YOU CANT JUST TAKE ME AS YOUR SLAVE YOU BIGOT NOOOOO YOURE A BOOTLICKER AND SPOOKED AAAAA NOOOAAAA THATS BAD FOR SOCIETY AND THE ENVIRONMENT AHGBgUnHYh

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17667754]

>>17667747
>Why no. I haven’t read Stirner. How could you tell?

[Anonymous No.17667795]

>AAAAA HE DOESNT INTERPRET STIRNER THE WAY I WANT HIM TO OR TRY TO COPY STIRNERS LIFE HE NEEDS TO BE STOPPED HE IS NOT CONFORMING TO MY VAGINA AAAA NOOOOOOo STOP STOP STOP

[Anonymous No.17667843]

>>17667657
>The cultivation of relations with them is good for a society. It depends on my relation to these people. Are they allies or enemies? What are their beliefs? Are they productive? Are they a drain?
I agree that cultivating relationships with one's community is important but not all are worth cultivating relationships with.

>This is bad for a society
Society? Isn't that a spook?
Anyway, it doesn't matter if it's good or bad, it's simply what people do. You should understand self-interest as a Stirnerite, surely?

>This happens a lot actually.
You see history as progress whereas I see history as conflict. People thinking differently merely perpetuates the eternal conflict of humanity. The progressive liberal capitalist order of today is no different to monarchy or fascism or communism in that the few will rule over the many. Nothing thus far has really shown true progress. Most of the things you've mentioned have been discarded or promoted to increase productivity, not because anyone really cared about the morality of such practices. Pacifism, however, is an impossibility. It will remain an idea and a belief for the weak and easily conquered.

We certainly are animals, by the way. Special animals but still animals.

It's late here in Bongland so I'll have to go but if this thread is still up by tomorrow I'll respond. Sorry beautiful butterlfy, ily bb.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17668146]

>>17667843
>but not all are worth cultivating relationships with
Really wrong angle to take in life.
>Society as spook
Holding it above you and your needs. However uniting with your community to get what you need and want necessitates a society’s cultivation. An anarchist society you can just bugger off of when and if you damn well please.

Conflict is a process or progression. Our systems perpetuate the conflicts. The human mind is a malleable thing, and the maturity of the human race depends on our molding it into something positive. Not creating AI and advanced robotics that replaces us
>nothing thus far
“Because a thing has never happened before means it can never happen” demonstrably false.
> We certainly are animals, by the way. Special animals but still animals.
Capable of self evolution.
Night.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17668157]

>>17667843
>>/lit/thread/S17660366#p17667843

[Anonymous No.17668290]

>>17668146
>the maturity of the human race depends on our molding it into something positive.
Why do you pretend to have read Stirner? He specifically attacks this when he talks about liberals. We are not brothers, and I look upon you only as my property.
>An anarchist society you can just bugger off of when and if you damn well please.
Any “society” is my society, and I will do everything in my power to control it as I please. You are my property, not my equal.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17669697]

>>17668290
I don’t recall him claiming we’re not all humans with human minds.
You won’t have the power over other egoists/unique ones until you unite with enough of them. You are external to me. And read the damn picture >>17668157

[Anonymous No.17669868]

>>17669697
>I don’t recall him claiming we’re not all humans
Really? Did you not read The Unique and Its Property? I am without any “human” qualities, i.e., I am not human.
>You won’t have the power over other egoists/unique ones until you unite with enough of them.
It certainly isn’t difficult. A group of fascists, for instance, would probably easily overcome a group of limp-wristed women and post-leftists.
>You are external to me.
You are an object to me, and as such I do not respect you as anything other than my property.
>read the picture
That is Stirner, not me, the Unique.

[Anonymous No.17669900]

>>17664832
If you read a translation of Stirner, you basically did not understand him.

[Anonymous No.17670652]

>>17668146
>Really wrong angle to take in life.
The opposite is true. Most people are a waste of time to engage with or, worse, toxic to your mood and aspirations.

>However uniting with your community to get what you need and want necessitates a society’s cultivation.
There are different methods of cultivation. One can cultivate a society through conquest.

>Conflict is a process or progression.
My point is that people believe history is linear, that there is a 'right side of history'. Humanity is only superficially malleable, the core of humanity has remained unchanged for all of recorded history. Humanity is in no way perfectable without extreme augmentation.

>Our systems perpetuate the conflicts
Humans perpetuate conflict. We need conflict, without it there is little to motivate us. You underestimate the positive impact of enemies; it's why moderns create enemies out of thin air.

>Not creating AI and advanced robotics that replaces us
That's your only hope, not that I believe it will change the structure of society either.

>“Because a thing has never happened before means it can never happen” demonstrably false.
At some point you have to take probability into account.

>Capable of self evolution.
Yes, but not in the way you suggest.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17671537]

>>17670652
ALL WRONG