/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17656971]

What does /lit/ think about Wagner's infamous essay, "Das Judenthum in der Musik"?

[Anonymous No.17656978]

>>17656971
Pure cope from a shit composer. Mahler and Schoenberg mog Wagner.

[Anonymous No.17656981]

>>17656971
it is completely and devastatingly accurate, which is why the Jewish media and cultural critics (((shut it down))) at the time, and the arts as a whole have been bejewed ever since

[Anonymous No.17656994]

>>17656978
>>17656981
Well, which one is it?

[Anonymous No.17657019]

>>17656971
Surprisingly a good essay, whether you agree with the Antisemitism or not, that's not the only thing in it.

[Anonymous No.17657025]

>>17656994
that would probably depend on what you think of the progress that music underwent in the 20th century under the tutelage of the media-celebrated jews

[Anonymous No.17657026]

>>17656971
Wagner's greatest sin was betting on the wrong horse when it came to guessing who will control the narrative through the lens of which he will be seen in the future.

He just doesn't fit into the contemporary narrative, so naturally it's his fate to be exiled from it. No need for mystification, whether he's judged to be on point or horribly wrong is purely a matter of politics and the narrative of art that the politics of the times demand and need.

[Anonymous No.17657040]

>>17657026
You're the Op aren't you?

[Anonymous No.17657052]

>>17657040
Yes.

Just for the record, if we lived in some weird alt-history universe where the third reich won and Wagner was judged to be on point I'd think along the same lines.

[Anonymous No.17657093]

>>17657052
>art is only meaningful because of political narratives

[Anonymous No.17657118]

>>17657093
how we live changes our view of things, yes.

[Anonymous No.17657156]

>>17657093
You misunderstood my point. I wasn't talking about art's meaning or worth in itself - that's obviously a more personal matter - but the way they're judged by the narrative of art and society as a whole.

Current narrative says antisemitism is bad. Wagner is antisemitic. Therefore, "Wagner bad". Were the narrative different, Wagner would be though of as a "visionary" or any such terms you hear in fluff pieces. The taboo concerning the views he expresses in his essay wouldn't exist, but rather, the narrative would affirm his views as true. Therefore, Wagner would be "good".

Art is not societally constructed, but the narrative that surrounds art, artists, and the art world is, and it's very influential in what we view as good, bad, correct, wrong, exemplary, passé, "the path forward", "artistic progress", etc.

This also applies in the economic sense - exhibitions, dealers, critics, teachers, patrons, etc. also have a MASSIVE influence in the art world, and what path if follows and what attitudes it holds.

[Anonymous No.17657854]

>>17656971
Bump.

[Anonymous No.17657876]

>>17657026
>>17657156
It is still a great accomplishment on Wagner's part that, even in "exile", he is mentioned and regarded as a great composer. They can't deny his influence, they only try to downplay it.

[Anonymous No.17657883]

>>17657876
I suppose there's a point where you're simply too big to be wholly erased due to your influence.

[Anonymous No.17658104]

>>17657156
>that's obviously a more personal matter
I can't help but sense that you do depend upon the political "narrative" for the value of the artistic work.

>"narratives"
Not an adequate term to express the varying beliefs and practices of a time, least of all the whole psychic phenomena.

[Anonymous No.17658117]

> /lit/ - using an essay on music as an excuse for anti-Semitism

[Anonymous No.17658125]

>>17658117
Anti-Semitism needs no excuse.

[Anonymous No.17658131]

>>17658117
Wagner was an extremely important and influential writer in general anon.

[Anonymous No.17658134]

>>17658117
Seethe

[Anonymous No.17658135]

>>17656971
I haven't read it but I should
>>17657026
>>17657156
Good posts OP

[Anonymous No.17658145]

>The first version of the article appeared in the NZM under the pseudonym of K. Freigedank ("K. Freethought").
Kek it's like it was released yesterday

[Anonymous No.17658155]

>Anti-Semitism needs no excuse.

[Anonymous No.17658167]

>>17658117
0.1 shekel has been deposited in your 'good goy' account

[Anonymous No.17658172]

correct

[Anonymous No.17658196]

>>17656971
Can you tell us what it's like? The wiki summary is most likely kiked and I'm not gonna read it without knowing anything about it

[Anonymous No.17658337]

>>17658167
Not a goy.

[Anonymous No.17658364]

>>17658337
>Not a goy
so a kike

[Anonymous No.17658374]

>>17658117
>>17658337

[Anonymous No.17658400]

>>17658196
Wagner argues that jewish composers are either just bad, merely superficially "beautiful" (Mendelssohn), or when they're kinda-sorta good they're basically jewifying goy composers who were important to them during their aesthetic education. Wagner argues that jewish artists are successful in his era because the era itself is culturally inauthentic, so it's only natural that the jews, who according to him are cultural incels, dependent on miming goy culture to make their own (and are outside the "volk", excluding them from ever truly "getting" goy culture), are its vanguard (a thought which Heidegger later also expressed in his infamous black notebooks, saying that "Weltjudentum", world-jewry, are basically the avatars, the purest representations of Modernity - who else but a deracinated people - in every sense of the word - could claim to understand a deracinated age the best?)

[Anonymous No.17658414]

>>17656971
god shut the fuck up and take your nazi retardism elsewhere faggot

[Anonymous No.17658448]

>>17658400
>when they're kinda-sorta good they're basically jewifying goy composers who were important to them during their aesthetic education
Just like jewish philosophers
> cultural incels, dependent on miming goy culture to make their own
Correct
>vanguard pomo
This is obvious

Sounds like Wagner was more based than Nietzsche

[Anonymous No.17658457]

>>17658414
kek, what? Wagner died decades before the "Nazi" party came into being. if those who were taken in by the lies of the Jewish Bolsheviks had heeded instead the warnings of Richard Wagner, the 20th century would have turned out very differently

[Anonymous No.17658461]

>>17658400
Wagner was actually much lighter on Mendelssohn, and would proceed to appreciate him more throughout his life, but he does say that even the best news (in character and art), like Mendelssohn, always lack that ability to be quite a Mozart.

[Anonymous No.17658480]

>>17658457
>had heeded instead the warnings of Richard Wagner
Everyone knew everything that Wagner said long before he was born. There's plenty of these essays every century. Even today we have pic related. It's not a secret.

[Anonymous No.17658506]

>>17658480
>All antisemitism is the same

[Anonymous No.17658517]

>>17658400
>Wagner argues that jewish artists are successful
*Wagner also argues

[Anonymous No.17658524]

>>17658506
what's the difference? they're always hated for being rootless cultural parasites and how this manifests

[Anonymous No.17658545]

>>17658506
inasmuch as what the jews screech "antisemitism" at accurately describes the tendencies of jewry, it pretty much is

[Anonymous No.17658562]

>>17658480
it's not a secret, and yet you cannot purchase it from the largest online book-seller in the world. perhaps K. MacDonald should change his name to K. Freigedank and republish it

[Anonymous No.17658572]

>>17658562
it's also not a secret that the west is controlled by jews so of course you can't buy it from jew store #446564 retard

[Anonymous No.17658579]

Arnold Schoenberg
George Gershwin
Leonard Bernstein
Gustav Mahler
Irving Berlin
Felix Mendessohn
Ernest Bloch
Oscar Hammerstein
Andre Previn
Ignaz Moscheles
Leonard Cohen
Simon & Garfunkel
Jim Croce
Salamone Rossi

Wagner is a cope.

[Anonymous No.17658581]

>>17658562
>Freigedank

lul

[Anonymous No.17658585]

>>17658400
You've convinced me to read this

[Anonymous No.17658587]

>>17658579
You just proved his point though

[Anonymous No.17658591]

>>17658572
It's jew store #1 actually

[Anonymous No.17658593]

>>17658579
the absolute state of this (((cope)))

[Anonymous No.17658671]

>>17658579

[Anonymous No.17659893]

>>17658457
oh okay that makes it different somehow

kill yourself and kill everyone around you

[Anonymous No.17659903]

>>17658400
>merely superficially "beautiful" (Mendelssohn), or when they're kinda-sorta good they're basically jewifying goy composers who were important to them during their aesthetic education.
>this is considered a Nazi """"intellectual""""

[Anonymous No.17660226]

>>17659893
>>17659903

[Anonymous No.17661080]

>>17658400
checked