/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17624681]

Whoa, did Nietzsche just btfo Plato, Cartesian philosophy, virtue ethics and "happiness" plebs in a few paragraphs?

[Anonymous No.17626043]

Nietzsche is an atheist, a nihilist, postmodernist which appeals to a lot of liberals and other deeply neurotic teenagers

Nietzsche lives only in atheism and is the achievement of the secular humanism which booted Christianity out of power. Nietzsche is overtly anti-christian, and it permits to all the atheist bug men to actually see themselves as the righteous resilient guy who create his own values
In effect trannies are the best ubermen ever: they ate to see themselves as they really are, so they change both their neurotic spirit and also their body to match the narrative of the ubermen and even better, they impose their values to non-trannies.

The overman is actually the last man: the overmandespises so much reality after seeing nihilism, that out of resentment for reality, the uberman CHOSE to sink further in his delusion by building a narrative where is not the last man, but actually the opposite: the uberman who create his own values, ie living in own brain farts until he dies.

[Anonymous No.17626068]

>>17626043
>Nietzsche is ... a nihilist
stopped reading there. You clearly don't know what you're talking about.

[Anonymous No.17626104]

>>17624681
How do they (the little people) meet the exigencies of life more courageously if they don't even understand them? It's just ignorance.

[Anonymous No.17626162]

>>17626043
Nietzsche offers a life affirming solution to the life denying dualist ontology offered by Plato as folded into the Bible by St Augustine and Co. Now fuck off back to /pol/ Philistine.

[Anonymous No.17626184]

>>17626104
YOLO vs the categorial imperative.

[Anonymous No.17626260]

>>17626104
It's because they aren't fully conscious of their predicaments that they're able to react and perform with confidence like animals in the wilderness do.

[Anonymous No.17626296]

>>17626260
yes, but isn't it more admirable to be conscious of our predicaments (as philosophers) and attempt to overcome them?

[Anonymous No.17626323]

>little people
>5'8"
Nietzsche my nigga... I know you're dead and all, but this has to stop.

[Anonymous No.17626358]

>>17626296
Isn't it more admirable to want to make use of both? If you were completely conscious, you'd enter psychological stasis.

[That Nigga No.17626467]

>>17624681
What a fucking brainlet, lol

[Anonymous No.17627410]

bump

[Anonymous No.17628059]

>>17626043
He's not a nihilist you fucking pleb he just saw it coming and wanted to find an alternative before nihilism ruins everything.

[Anonymous No.17629078]

You dumb retard, Nietzsche was absolutely not a nihilist did you read Nietzsche ? He deplored nihilism and the loss of moral values in the west (hence why his phrase God is dead because westerners started to /left Christianity) so he pledged for following an ideal similar to the way ancient Athenians were living, he pledged for men to be ubermensch, he pledged for beauty, he pledged for what western civilization had best to offer.

[Anonymous No.17629087]

>>17624681
might =/= right

[Anonymous No.17629093]

>>17626043
>>17626043
stop posting this shit retard, modern-day progressives are the fucking epitome of slave moralists

[Anonymous No.17629128]

>>17626043
>Nietzsche is a nihilist
please, PLEASE go back to /pol/, the containment board from whence you crawled out from

[Anonymous No.17629195]

>>17629087
Wrong.

>'Rights I will permit thee to call everywhere "correctly-articulated mights." A dreadful business to articulate correctly!
- Chartism

>Divine right, take it on the great scale, is found to mean divine might withal!
- On Heroes, Hero Worship and the Heroic in History

[Anonymous No.17629214]

>>17626043
This is one of the dumbest posts on Nietzsche in a while. Good job.

[Anonymous No.17629296]

>>17626323
>t. 5'11" manlet

[Anonymous No.17629297]

>>17626043

[Anonymous No.17629299]

>>17626043
this is not only retarded and wrong, but has nothing to do with OPs post. congrats on making a fool of yourself

[Anonymous No.17629306]

>>17626043
holy mother of all pseuds
put me in the screencap

[Anonymous No.17629409]

So Nietzsche is making the claim that to the extent that a moral action is premeditated and thought of consciously, that the action is not vitreous? and that because when a "little person" makes moral acts they aren't a conscious act making them better than the play-acting philosophers like Plato? am I getting that right?

[Anonymous No.17629429]

>>17629409
Nietzsche thought highly of himself and lowly of everyone else. He very much was of the opinion:
>we need the idiots in trailer parks to be stressing over not masturbating or they go to hell because otherwise these people will take hold of culture and piledrive it leading us into new heights of stupidity

[Anonymous No.17629440]

>>17624681
BTFOd by Wagner.

[Anonymous No.17629526]

>>17626043
>Nietzsche is overtly anti-christian
He was vehemently anti-Pauline.
He regarded the historical Jesus as like the historical Buddha, the historical Lao Tzu, etc. -- men who were tolerable despite their life-denying tendencies.

[Anonymous No.17629648]

>>17626323
thats more than average for his time period

[Anonymous No.17630064]

>just be an edgelord bro
No wonder he was an incel

[Anonymous No.17630471]

So THAT is the ignominious Nietzsche? The Nietzsche that i've heard so much about? Please tell thats one of his weaker works, or at least a very brief introduction to the rest of the work. That critique falls so damn short of its intention. Why should man want power? Because he sees it as the ultimate good. The ultimate good being our final end is the fulfillment of our actions and thus brings happiness. Neetch totally misses the mark that everything sought after is sought as a good and a good is for the end of happiness. Happiness is not meant as pleasure in fleeting or worldly way.

[Anonymous No.17630480]

>>17626162
>>17629128
/pol/ loves Nietzsche

[Anonymous No.17630613]

>>17630471
>Neetch totally misses the mark that everything sought after is sought as a good and a good is for the end of happiness.
From what I understand of the passage, he's saying that man unconsciously wants power, and that the unconscious man is the perfect man, while the more conscious a man becomes, the less perfect he is. He differentiates between power and happiness as though power were the unconscious motive behind the conscious desire for happiness.

That passage is from Will to Power though, which was an unpublished manifesto released after he died.

[Anonymous No.17630636]

>>17630613
>That passage is from Will to Power though, which was an unpublished manifesto released after he died.
Ah I see. I should have withheld my remark then. Nietzsche is this giant figure thats always loomed and I had a brief moment of disappointment.

What does it mean when a man becomes aware of his desire for power being his driving force and then consciously acts to cultivate it as such? Is that the awakening of an ubermensch or does he then fall into the trap of building himself a lie to constrain him to a new virtue?

[Anonymous No.17630875]

>>17630636
>Is that the awakening of an ubermensch or does he then fall into the trap of building himself a lie to constrain him to a new virtue?
I'd say the latter, since power would still be the unconscious motive behind doing that, so the attempt to make it conscious would be endless / seemingly a waste. To make use of the unconscious, rather than make it conscious, you become one with it, and learn how to navigate the conscious world with it.

[Anonymous No.17630942]

>>17626068
>Viewed the decline of Christianity and the incline of secularism in the west as a bad thing in the sense that in fulfilled a majority of peoples lives with basic metaphysics
>thought that we could create our own values in replacement for the inherent lack thereof
>entire philosophy revolves around countering nihilism
>not a nihilist
Just because he vehemently opposed nihilism, doesn't mean he isn't a nihilist, quite the contrary in actuality.

[Anonymous No.17630949]

>>17626162
Life affirmation is onions. Read Schopenhauer, you know, the man who Nietzsche perverted.

[Anonymous No.17630959]

>>17630942
Read more.

[Anonymous No.17630968]

>>17630949
>making something of your existence is onions but sitting around and having no ambitions? based...

[Anonymous No.17631023]

>>17630942
>anyone who doesn't agree with my arbitrarily written desert fairytales is a nihilist

[Anonymous No.17631033]

>>17630471
>Neetch totally misses the mark that everything sought after is sought as a good and a good is for the end of happiness.
Read it again. That's not what he stated as a matter of fact. Nietzsche's final "good" is creation through the will to power, not "pleasure" or "happiness."

[Anonymous No.17631056]

>>17626162
>dualist ontology offered by Plato

[Anonymous No.17631095]

Are you actually retarded my man?He didnt blow out anyone nor it was his intention to do so.If you can actually read,he was writing about how "everything resolved itself into play-acting".
Then he tells that men get motivated by happiness.And the way to happiness is actually virtue.But going further,he concludes that men actually do not want happiness.Why?Because highest rationality is a clear,cold state very far from giving happiness.
The end result of it all was actually the conclusion that "little people are superior to Nietschze and all other philosophers because of their way of living,patience,goodness and mutual assistance.
Can you like,grab a gun and shoot your dick off?Its best that you dont spread your genes.

[Anonymous No.17631111]

>>17630959
I always aspire to do so. As everyone should.
>>17630968
>sitting around and having no ambitions?
You could of just said you hadn't read Schopenhauer. What a disgusting misconception.
>>17631023
>desert fairytales
Nice one you faggot, my post has nothing to do with Nietzsche's thoughts on Christianity, rather his thoughts on it's decline and the ramifications of such. I'm not a Christian, I wasn't contesting Nietzsche at all, I was responding to the guy that didn't think the man who's entire philosophy revolved around combatting Nihilism wasn't a fucking nihilist. It's the equivalent of a heroin addict withdrawing from heroin, they may try their hardest to avoid relapsing, but in the end they're still an addict.

[Anonymous No.17631152]

>>17626043
Dr. Peterson is that you?

[Anonymous No.17631190]

>>17630480
only because they don't understand him.

[Anonymous No.17631208]

>>17631190
Nah, the Nazis understood him quite well. One of Nietzsche's teachings was constant conflict, no matter the cause. Nietzsche's philosophy itself was not inherently biased towards one political position or the other, it was only biased towards the will to power, whatever form that might take. If someone can post that quote by, I believe it was Deleuze or one of the French postmodernists, which states that Nazis were the only political movement embodying Nietzsche (and how that reflects poorly on modern society), that would be good.

[Anonymous No.17631391]

Liberals have destroyed the old values of the white supremacists, and now they impose their own. Leftists are the overman.

You have to understand that Nietzsche being a nihilist, he just wants a way to fill up his day and he hates morality. So he can only push for meaningless activities, and for him it is Value Wars. Those subhumans don't need to take a side. They just watch the war on values like they watch a movie. It does not matter to those bugmen that all they do is fruitless and they are even okay with knowing it, like his atheist audience says >>17613735 (Dead)#

All that Nietzsche and his bugmen followers advocate is just a worldwide delusion that entertainment matters because nihilism is true. What fills up this entertainment is not relevant to them.

basically Nietzsche is a capitalist about values. He wants a free market of values, just like women larp as socialists, for a fake sense of morality, and yet want to be the apex predator on the sex market.

[Anonymous No.17631398]

Those people have destroyed the old values of the white supremacists, and now they impose their own. Leftists are the overman.

You have to understand that Nietzsche being a nihilist, he just wants a way to fill up his day and he hates morality. So he can only push for meaningless activities, and for him it is Value Wars. Those subhumans don't need to take a side. They just watch the war on values like they watch a movie. It does not matter to those bugmen that all they do is fruitless and they are even okay with knowing it, like his atheist audience says.

All that Nietzsche and his bugmen followers advocate is just a worldwide delusion that entertainment matters because nihilism is true. What fills up this entertainment is not relevant to them.

basically Nietzsche is a capitalist about values. He wants a free market of values, just like women larp as socialists, for a fake sense of morality, and yet want to be the apex predator on the sex market. Nietzsche dont care about the content of a movie, he jsut want a movie and he is happy to watch garbage.

[Anonymous No.17631467]

he's just a midwit

[Anonymous No.17631566]

>>17626043
assuming you knew nothing of Nietzsche but OP's pic, how tf do you get nihilist and postmodernist?

[Anonymous No.17631638]

>>17626043
unironically kill yourself

[Anonymous No.17632280]

>>17631190
Retard take

[Anonymous No.17632422]

>>17626043
Uhhh akahshully you need to read all of Nietzsche. He’s the opposite of everything u say except when he’s kidding which you can tell if you read his diaries.

[Anonymous No.17632834]

>>17631095
>Then he tells that men get motivated by happiness.And the way to happiness is actually virtue.But going further,he concludes that men actually do not want happiness.Why?Because highest rationality is a clear,cold state very far from giving happiness.
How is this not a BTFO when he's exposing the whole philosophy of the rationalists and dialecticians from Socrates through the Enlightenment as missing the mark and weakening man through their glorification of consciousness?

[Anonymous No.17632844]

>>17631398
kill yourself already

[Anonymous No.17632920]

>>17626068
>>17628059
If he is not a nihilist what is his metaphysics? You either embrace metaphysics or you are a nihilist, for you cannot account to the fact that there are things rather than nothing without it.

>>17626162
>Plato
>Dualist
I always laugh at how people are really brainwashed when it comes to dumb critiques of platonism. You have never read a word from Plato probably, this is the only logical possibility.

[Anonymous No.17632932]

>>17632920
>If he is not a nihilist what is his metaphysics?
will to power

[Anonymous No.17632953]

>>17632932
How does it relate to anything I said? This is merely an immanent alternative to keep going, unless you tell me that in reality it all ends up in the inner hunger we have for life (eternal) the good.

[Anonymous No.17632957]

>>17626043
god the walls of text at the start of nietzsche threads are always hilarious

[Anonymous No.17632972]

>>17632953
>How does it relate to anything I said?
You asked what his metaphysics is. Will to power is his metaphysics and it's what he derives his positive-negative forces from.

[Anonymous No.17632974]

>>17632932
This has nothing to do with metaphysics. Start with Plato.

[Anonymous No.17632980]

>>17632972
Thank you for proving he had no metaphysics.

[Anonymous No.17632982]

>>17632974
>it's not my metaphysics so it doesn't count

[Anonymous No.17633000]

>>17632982
>my metaphysics
>MY
holy shit you dont even know what it is, no wonder you think will to power is metaphysics

[Anonymous No.17633011]

>>17633000
Anon, you seem confused. Plato doesn't own a copyright on metaphysics, there can be other types of metaphysics that don't work the way his does. Will to power is such a metaphysics. If you don't agree with it, that's one thing, but you asked a question about what Nietzsche's metaphysics is, and I told you.

[Anonymous No.17633054]

>>17633011
>other types of metaphysics
This is why you have no idea what you are talking about. Will to power is nothing but Nietzsche’s particular expression of a general sentiment, however valid, it must be restricted to its due place that is not the place of metaphysics properly. There is no ontology involved, no theological/theosophical “imagery”. That is why you people think it is “life-affirming” for it is just an immanent sentiment but in reality it subverts its own foundations, the foundations of reality and the worst is that Nietzche’s does this out of resentment.

[Anonymous No.17633095]

>>17633054
>This is why you have no idea what you are talking about.
I have an idea, I just don't agree with you on what makes something a metaphysics, since I don't agree that any metaphysical system can be total. You think that a metaphysics must be total in order for it to be such, and that's fine for you, but not for me.

>Will to power is nothing but Nietzsche’s particular expression of a general sentiment, however valid, it must be restricted to its due place that is not the place of metaphysics properly. There is no ontology involved, no theological/theosophical “imagery”.
What have you read to come to this conclusion? Nietzsche wrote many, many passages that state otherwise. He had a fully working ontology that rejected Platonic metaphysics and the notion of substance.

>the worst is that Nietzche’s does this out of resentment.
So you've actually read nothing at all. Why did you even ask what he thinks then if you obviously don't care and are just looking to fit him into your own narrative like this?

[Anonymous No.17633127]

>>17633095
Metaphysics is not total because the idea of totality implies definition, but it is in a sense “total” insofar as it is understood as “all-comprehending” for metaphysics is universal (and that is why his, hers, mine, yours, particular metaphysics is oxymoronic).

>He had a ontology
So will you finally answer the question I first did to you hours ago? What is “his” metaphysics? “Will to power” is not an answer as I have showed.

>So you have’t read
Read Girard’s critique of Nietzsche, he came to the same conclusion.

[Anonymous No.17633208]

>>17633127
Metaphysics is only universal to the extent that a particular mind can be. It can appear universal if that particular mind has completely annihilated or concealed all other minds from view. Probably the only two individuals in the history of philosophy to expound the most "universal" metaphysics in this sense are Plato and Nietzsche, whose works are immensely complex as a result.

>So will you finally answer the question I first did to you hours ago?
You must have asked someone else because I don't know what you mean, but my answer is still will to power because that's the term for it. Will to power is Nietzsche's descriptor for nature, it doesn't refer solely to an individual will. If you want to know the finer details then I recommend reading The Gay Science, Beyond Good and Evil, and Will to Power (but keep in mind that the latter is an unauthorized compilation of notebooks).

[Anonymous No.17633232]

>>17626043
everyone is saying this is wrong and that you just need are read more. bro why are old books so complicated can't they just say what they mean

[Anonymous No.17633285]

>>17633232
>I call an animal, a species, an individual corrupt, when it loses its instincts, when it chooses, when it PREFERS, what is injurious to it. A history of the "highest feelings," the "ideals of humanity"—and it is possible that I'll have to write it—would almost explain why man is so degenerate. Life itself appears to me as an instinct for growth, for survival, for the accumulation of forces, for POWER: whenever the will to power fails there is disaster. My contention is that all the highest values of humanity have been emptied of this will—that the values of DECADENCE, of NIHILISM, now prevail under the holiest names.

>Mankind has ventured to call pity a virtue (—in every SUPERIOR moral system it appears as a weakness—); going still further, it has been called THE virtue, the source and foundation of all other virtues—but let us always bear in mind that this was from the standpoint of a philosophy that was nihilistic, and upon whose shield THE DENIAL OF LIFE was inscribed. Schopenhauer was right in this: that by means of pity life is denied, and made WORTHY OF DENIAL—pity is the technic of nihilism.

>When theologians, working through the "consciences" of princes (or of peoples—), stretch out their hands for POWER, there is never any doubt as to the fundamental issue: the will to make an end, the NIHILISTIC will exerts that power...

>An action prompted by the life-instinct proves that it is a RIGHT action by the amount of pleasure that goes with it: and yet that Nihilist, with his bowels of Christian dogmatism, regarded pleasure as an OBJECTION... What destroys a man more quickly than to work, think and feel without inner necessity, without any deep personal desire, without pleasure—as a mere automaton of duty? That is the recipe for DECADENCE, and no less for idiocy...

>Nihilist and Christian: they rhyme in German, and they do more than rhyme...

It seems pretty straightforward to me, what are you getting hung up on?

[Anonymous No.17633288]

>>17633208
>Metaphysics is only universal to the extent...
What the fuck are you even saying here? Holy shit, I sincerely don’t believe you typed this out of honesty, but I will give you the benefit of doubt and respond.
You are confusing intellect with psychological phenomena when you refer to the term “particular mind”. The former is universal for intellect apprehends or “does” intelligibility (which is the universal itself insofar as it is the Being (or quiddity)of Being, that is, a thing that is is what is and because it is).
There is no “most or least” universal metaphysics, again you are very misinformed to what metaphysics is. You ignore not only the other Platonists and the main influences on them and Plato himself, but also all other theologies and theosophies which surpass (for they are more sophisticated and make points that put Platonism in dilemma) in my opinion Platonism (I won’t get into it here).

>Will to power... nature
Again, you are just proving to me this has nothing, absolutely nothing, to do with metaphysics (and it really has nothing to do with it). What Nietzsche does is to incorporate the natural and sacred Violence which is our own human exasperation that leads us to the very tragic reciprocity that underlies and move all pagan religions. He has a sense of the truth with his acceptance and awareness of tragedy in life, but he ignores and rejects completely what it points toward and its resolution, Girard understood this perfectly (and here is the field in which Nietzsche finds himself, which is not metaphysics lol).

[Anonymous No.17633428]

>>17633285
To explain a bit further as to what his relation to nihilism was and why he wasn't a nihilist: Nietzsche saw the advent of nihilism in Europe as necessary and emerging as a result of Europe's highest values, inherited from Christianity. These values created faiths in a total aim, a grand unity, and an eternal truth, faiths that permeated everything, including the sciences, politics, economics, historiography, art and so on; but, once Europe realized through its own efforts of study that these are all the byproducts of psychological needs and that no one has any right to those higher values, everything would eventually crumble and Europe would fall into a state whereby no one sees any reason for living anymore, and for a while not even a reason to try and posit new values. He considered himself the "first perfect nihilist of Europe" and for this reason, also the first one to move beyond that nihilism. Will to power was meant to be a revaluation of all values that he was still in the process of writing and was the central aspect of how he moved beyond it.

[Anonymous No.17633434]

>>17631033
I definitely got more out of it the second read

[Anonymous No.17633454]

>>17633428
>advent of Nihilism
You must be either retarded or really ignorant to type something like this. Nihilism has always been present in the human mentality.

[Anonymous No.17633464]

>>17633288
What is the universe other than "everything that I create"? Will to power is a metaphysics designed around this understanding of the universe. It's a first principle and a substance that does not work like a first principle or a substance in the classical sense.

[Anonymous No.17633470]

>>17633454
yeah but it's trendier since the atheists took power

[Anonymous No.17633493]

>There is no fact, only interpretations

definition of nihlism

>created new values while having fun like Dionysus!

definition of postmodernism

[Anonymous No.17633499]

>>17633454
It was "advent of nihilism in Europe," Nietzsche's words exactly. He was talking about the current wave of nihilism, but nihilism always works the way he defined it anyway:

>What does nihilism mean? THAT THE HIGHEST VALUES DEVALUATE THEMSELVES. The aim is lacking; "why?" finds no answer.

[Anonymous No.17633503]

>>17633493
Based retard

[Anonymous No.17633544]

>>17624681
>(one dared not say: Power. That would be inmoral)
Did this nigga really think nobody had thought of this before? Power as the main default desire of men has always been obvious to everyone. Philosophy and religion have been precisely the search for some meaning beyond “dominate until you grow weak and then die”. In fact, men have recognized that when we serve the desire for power, we become slaves to the desire itself, and then leads to catastrophe. It is in fact characterized as a form of lust.
>The lust for domination is a surrender of the self over to the lust for domination in-of-itself, which manifests itself in the self’s exertion of power over others (seen most visibly in Cain murdering Abel and Romulus murdering Remus).

[Anonymous No.17633618]

>>17633544
>power corrupts nigga
>yous a slave to yourself nigga stop being you
Typical Christian horseshit

[Anonymous No.17633942]

>>17633464
>What is the universe other than "everything that I create"?
Here begins the sentimentalism and henceforth I depart. I just wish and hope you don't partake in defamation of things you ignore like most people into Nieztsche I have discussed with on this board.

[Anonymous No.17633959]

>>17633618
you sound like an npc, really. for real do you think you have a soul? im curious about your point of view

[Anonymous No.17634034]

>>17633285
Ugh why is he so dramatic

[Anonymous No.17634047]

>>17633618
>b-but you can’t be a slave to your own passions!
t. Coomer

[Anonymous No.17634052]

>>17633942
>sentimentalism
Don't let the language fool you, there is nothing sentimental about that statement. The universe, as it were, means something different to each of us, because each of us contain different instincts, DNA strands, memories, and so on, which construct our psychology and "the universe" in our minds. To illustrate it in a far more easily digestible manner, the universe means a very different thing to a dog compared to what it means to Einstein, and while Einstein knows the far more complex meaning, since he has the far more complex brain, his meaning is still a product of his brain and not of something else.

So what is a metaphysical system then, other than something unique to an individual brain? How can you speak of metaphysical processes and mechanisms and not acknowledge that these processes and mechanisms are being manufactured by your brain? What do you think you're talking about otherwise? And when it comes down to it, different brains will have different metaphysical systems, because they will perceive different processes and mechanisms in the world, "the world" itself being different for each.

[Anonymous No.17634107]

>>17631111
imagine thinking Nietzsche perverted rather than patched up Schopenhauer's philosophy

[Anonymous No.17634168]

>>17634052
>So what is a metaphysical system then, other than something unique to an individual brain?
I don't even have the energy anymore to reply to you. You are literally repeating what I have showed you to be a crass misunderstanding of what metaphysics is. Anyhow, this is how you people operate, with lies, resentful anger, playing dumb, dogmatic repetitions.

[Anonymous No.17634268]

>>17634168
>You are literally repeating what I have showed you to be a crass misunderstanding of what metaphysics is.
What misunderstanding? I'm disagreeing with your conception of it, outright, while explaining to you how.

>Anyhow, this is how you people operate, with lies, resentful anger, playing dumb, dogmatic repetitions.
You're an idiot.

[Anonymous No.17634333]

>>17633959
>>17634047
>I am not my body, but the idea of my perfect self
This is how fucking bizarre you both sound.

[Anonymous No.17634345]

>>17634268
>your conception
You must have some congenital problem of intelligence, you can't be this dumb. Is this just another desperate attempt to flee from evident, necessary conditions in life? Keep trying, repeat your sentimentalism, try resorting to that barbaric materialism, in the end you'll have what you deserve.

[Anonymous No.17634353]

>>17634333
>I am my body this is why I don't move myself but passions move me!
Perfectly fitting.

[Anonymous No.17634426]

Can't virtue lead to power though? And a life that goes beyond happiness by striving through the process of suffering and thus finding meaning then?

[Anonymous No.17634463]

>>17634345
You're not actually addressing me, just hurling insults. What did you make of the argument of the dog and Einstein? Do you not have anything to say about that? Further, why am I the dogmatic one when I'm the one admitting to there being different perspectives and you're basically arguing that there can't be and that only yours is true and correct? Don't bother responding if you aren't going to address these points because I won't respond any further.

>>17634353
>this is why I don't move myself
What are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.17634670]

>>17634426
>Can't virtue lead to power though?
Only power of the spirit, which would only lead to happiness of the spirit.

[Anonymous No.17634877]

>>17626043
gr8 b8 m8

[Anonymous No.17635103]

>>17634463
Bodies are not self-convertive, peabrain.

[Anonymous No.17635125]

>>17635103
Who said they were?

[Anonymous No.17635295]

>>17626043
This is the worst reply I have ever read.

[Anonymous No.17635302]

>>17626043
>Nietzsche is a postmodernist

[Anonymous No.17635439]

>>17631111
>It's the equivalent of a heroin addict withdrawing from heroin, they may try their hardest to avoid relapsing, but in the end they're still an addict.

“But thus I counsel you, my friends: Mistrust all in whom the impulse to punish is powerful. They are people of a low sort and stock; the hangmen and the bloodhound look out of their faces. Mistrust all who talk much of their justice! Verily, their souls lack more than honey. And when they call themselves the good and the just, do not forget that they would be pharisees, if only they had—power.”

[Anonymous No.17635580]

>>17632920
>If he is not a nihilist what is his metaphysics?
>HIS
>then complains about a possessive pronoun being used here >>17633000
lol you retards can't even follow your own posts

[Anonymous No.17635758]

>>17624681
Retarded quote. What a brainlet.

[Anonymous No.17636655]

>>17634426
No. also it's postmodernists who are obsessed with power

[Anonymous No.17636993]

>>17626043
oh anon you learned how to type good for you

[Anonymous No.17637005]

>>17626043
10/10 bait

[Anonymous No.17637012]

>>17633232
Nietzsche quite literally is very clear about being against nihilism, this isn't something hidden in his philosophy or anything. He literally fucking says it. This is why people that haven't read him stand out like a sore thumb.

[Anonymous No.17637019]

>>17631190
I don't think the Nazis realized Nietzsche's beliefs, but the realization of his beliefs would produce something more like their ideal than the modern world.

[Anonymous No.17637050]

>>17637012
he denies truth and says value wars is all there is

I know it's hard for undergrads to get this

[Anonymous No.17637108]

>>17631111
>could of
exposed.
quads are wasted on you

[Anonymous No.17637169]

>>17626043
>Nietzsche is an atheist, a nihilist, postmodernist which appeals to a lot of liberals and other deeply neurotic teenagers
Look! A Christian telling lies.

[Anonymous No.17637210]

>>17633544
>Philosophy and religion have been precisely the search for some meaning beyond “dominate until you grow weak and then die”
Thats not power.

[Anonymous No.17637293]

>>17637012
Nietzsche is always very ambiguous. I think he saw nihilism as something to be overcome by the overman, but does that mean he was able to overcome it himself? I don't see nihilism as a "philosophy" that you can voluntarily discard or adopt. It's a lack of grounding for values, a psychological barrier. Here's BGE 289, a very nihilistic passage:
>In the writings of a recluse one always hears something of the echo of the wilderness, something of the murmuring tones and timid vigilance of solitude; in his strongest words, even in his cry itself, there sounds a new and more dangerous kind of silence, of concealment. He who has sat day and night, from year's end to year's end, alone with his soul in familiar discord and discourse, he who has become a cave-bear, or a treasure-seeker, or a treasure-guardian and dragon in his cave—it may be a labyrinth, but can also be a gold-mine—his ideas themselves eventually acquire a twilight-colour of their own, and an odour, as much of the depth as of the mould, something uncommunicative and repulsive, which blows chilly upon every passer-by. The recluse does not believe that a philosopher—supposing that a philosopher has always in the first place been a recluse—ever expressed his actual and ultimate opinions in books: are not books written precisely to hide what is in us?—indeed, he will doubt whether a philosopher CAN have "ultimate and actual" opinions at all; whether behind every cave in him there is not, and must necessarily be, a still deeper cave: an ampler, stranger, richer world beyond the surface, an abyss behind every bottom, beneath every "foundation." Every philosophy is a foreground philosophy—this is a recluse's verdict: "There is something arbitrary in the fact that the PHILOSOPHER came to a stand here, took a retrospect, and looked around; that he HERE laid his spade aside and did not dig any deeper—there is also something suspicious in it." Every philosophy also CONCEALS a philosophy; every opinion is also a LURKING-PLACE, every word is also a MASK.
Are we supposed to believe that Nietzsche believes the recluse is incorrect? That Nietzsche himself wasn't a kind of recluse? He isn't clear on this. To me, this ambiguity is what makes Nietzsche worthwhile. Pretending like he is some one-dimensional, life-affirming philosopher without any second thoughts is very boring view. I think he suffered from the same kinds of self-deception he criticized other philosophers for in chapter 1 of BGE. The difference between Nietzsche and those who came before him is that he actually realized his self-deception and attempted to write the most honest philosophy he allowed himself to.

[Anonymous No.17637313]

>>17637293
>supposing that a philosopher has always in the first place been a recluse
I take it back, actually, I think Nietzsche is pretty clear. The recluse is correct.

[Anonymous No.17637534]

>>17637012
He calls himself a nihilist actually, but he also says that he overcame it, in his notebooks at least. Had he lived a few more years he would have no doubt produced a book that contained brand new values and a plan for the future, since there were already drafts of this kind in those notebooks.

[Anonymous No.17637672]

>>17637534
Very interesting, I never knew this. Where can I find those notebooks? Will to Power?

[Anonymous No.17637884]

What does /lit/ think of this book?

[Anonymous No.17637940]

To this day Nietzsche remains the perfect filter. The amount of seethe this man inspires in people to this day is more than amusing. One bad, vulgar take after another, trying to dismantle him with the smallest of means, and failing so greatly.

[Anonymous No.17638053]

>>17637672
>Will to Power?
Yes, and I'm pretty sure he says it in the preface even

[Anonymous No.17638177]

>>17626043
/lit/ in absolute fucking shambles

[Anonymous No.17638286]

>>17633288
>>17633054

Anon, in your few short posts I think I gleam the background of what you are saying am why, and I have a gut feeling you are closer to the truth than the other anons here. Now, I THINK you are making the same arguments as Seraphim Rose in his Nihilism essay, to which I recently stumbled upon. I am not nearly well read enough to grasp the deeper arguments and subtle meanings behind your arguments, but I want to learn. Do I unironically start with the Greeks? What other reading would you recommend?

[Anonymous No.17638424]

>>17634107
This. I read Nietzsche first and then read Schopenhauer several years later, and was surprised to find how compatible he is with Nietzsche. Whatever was leftover from Kant and Christianity in Schopenhauer Nietzsche clinically removed from his own work but basically retained everything else about it.

[Anonymous No.17638432]

>>17626043
based seethe seeker truly a man of superior spirit a free spirit

[Anonymous No.17638553]

>>17637050
>he denies truth
No, he denies a certain moral sentiment that naively glorifies consciousness at the expense of a richer unconscious animality rather than sees them as integral to one another. He was concerned with truth, but he understood that truth alone can't sustain life.

[Anonymous No.17638569]

You to understand that Nietzsche's nihilism is the christianity. ie living on earth to have a good place in heaven.

THat's not called nihilism in 2021, but for him it is. Because Nietzsche is a vitalist ie a nihilist coomer who want to coom all over his mind.

Nietzsche position is indeed nihilism in the 2021 sense. Nietzsche wants to live in the present moment and just makes up narrative to pass this as righteous, like they do in dharmic teachings.

[Anonymous No.17639661]

>>17626043
Most based post on 4channel. Trannies and pseuds in full damage control mode.

[Anonymous No.17640524]

>>17626323
lmao

[Anonymous No.17641627]

>>17626068
You don't actually understand what nihilist means if you think Nietzsche wasn't one. The man was a complete basket case, someone who dug himself deeper and deeper into the abyss until he just flat out broke. What could possibly be more nihilistic than such grotesque navel gazing? His anti-nihilism is founded on an extreme form of nihilism, one so great that he has to convince himself it's not.

[Anonymous No.17641656]

>>17624681
any tldr for this
I'm legit a smooth brain retard

[hungryman !!5BI0oSV9uvS No.17641702]

>>17626043
Holy...
>>17633232
Because if you think Nietzsche is a nihilist, you didn’t get filtered because old books are hard to read. You got filtered because you didn’t even read the first couple of paragraphs.

[Anonymous No.17642657]

>>17626043
>Nietzsche is a postmodernist
BGE §44 proves you wrong.

[Anonymous No.17642756]

>>17624681
No, Nietzsche states his opinions as though they were facts and misrepresents what ancient philosopher’s meant by “happiness”. Happiness to the ancients was not defined as what it means today.

[Anonymous No.17643774]

>>17633499
Ahhh, you gotta love Nietzsche pseuds. They get convinced by sonething being in all caps. "THE HIGHEST VALUES (which I have arbitrarily dictated) DEVALUE THEMSELVES (are less valuable than I say they should be in you)." Very convincing.

[Anonymous No.17643796]

>>17638553
He denies truth.

[Anonymous No.17643813]

>>17643774
>which I have arbitrarily dictated
butthurt leftist detected

[Anonymous No.17643828]

When will you guys realize "nihilist = the guy who doesn't have the same values as me"? Nietzsche calls the christians a nihilist for devaluing power, and the christians call the nonchristian nihilists for devaluing their morality.

[Anonymous No.17643836]

>>17643813
How does this relate at all to politics?

[Anonymous No.17643845]

>>17643836
only leftists hate N and deny his intellectual superiority

[Anonymous No.17643914]

>>17624681
Notice that not one argument of substance was made.

[Anonymous No.17644031]

>>17643845
Actually Christians are his most common detractors. Although anyone should take issue with his preposterous views on morality.

[Anonymous No.17644063]

>>17644031
no actually leftists are, and you're one of them

[Anonymous No.17644102]

>>17644063
You mean like Chesterton?
And also, make sure sure to look under the bed for leftists before going to sleep. You never know with them.

[Anonymous No.17644151]

>>17644102
chesterton bordered on socialism

[Anonymous No.17644194]

>>17644151
>chesterton
If by Leftist you mean everyone at the left of Carl Schmit I can see why you may think that most leftists don't like Nietzsche.

[Anonymous No.17644206]

>>17624681
>P1 Philosophers are bad in theory and in practice
>P2 Peasants are good at practice but have no theory
>C Peasants are superior to philosophers in theory and in practice
Amidoinitrite?

[Anonymous No.17644224]

>>17644194
bruh, he was center-left, and certainly not a good example of a right-winger. you're gonna need a better example and also multiple of them if you want to convince anyone that right-wingers dislike N / leftists don't hate him.

[Anonymous No.17644233]

>>17644206
Peasants just have the spiritual superpower known as humility. They lose all their powers once they become rich and/or powerful.

[Anonymous No.17644292]

>>17644233
>the spiritual superpower known as humility
humility is a first and foremost a christian virtue right? I don't remember what Nietzsche says about humility. is he claiming that it's a form of weakness?

[Anonymous No.17644341]

where does one start with nietzche? i fucking hated the greeks and think i wasted my time starting with them

[Anonymous No.17644361]

>>17644341
Twilight of the Idols

[Anonymous No.17644418]

>>17644292
Don’t know about Nietzsche, but I know what Dosto and Tolstoy mean when they say mujiks are wiser than any intellectual. I know some peasants who are incredibly based. Even with their broken and simple language they are able to see and communicate things which no professor of mine ever could even dream to grasp.
The common denominator? A sincere humility of heart that is almost shocking to the average educated city bugman like me. You can see it in their eyes.
When I read Dosto describe mujiks I know exactly what he means.

[Anonymous No.17644439]

>>17643796
Facts =/= truth

[Anonymous No.17644448]

>>17644418
>When I read Dosto describe mujiks I know exactly what he means.
I can feel that.
Some philosophers were from peasant, rural extraction and kept a form of typical and authentic modesty.
Humility comes from the heart and from whom inhabits in our heart: Christ is the source of humility

[Anonymous No.17644478]

>>17624681
>when you're an enlightened scholar
>picrel, everyone in this thread

[Anonymous No.17644524]

>>17643774
He wasn't talking about his own values there.

[Anonymous No.17644537]

>>17644341
>i fucking hated the greeks
then you better end with the greeks before you embarrass yourself further

[Anonymous No.17644541]

>>17643774
He wasn't talking about only his own values there, but values in general. When he calls something nihilistic, good, bad, and so on, he's aware that it's he who designates it as such.