/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17616737]

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/feb/22/namina-forna-lord-of-the-rings-jrr-tolkien-fan-the-guilded-ones

[Anonymous No.17616752]

Based Black cultural appropriator.

[Anonymous No.17616774]

>>17616737
There's literally tons of cool African mythological and historical stuff that no one in the west knows anything about, I wish more people would adopt stuff based on those stories

[Anonymous No.17616790]

>>17616774
>cool African mythological and historical stuff
yeah i loved the story of ooga booga and how he gave AIDS to every girl in the village during the sexual initiation voodoo ritual

[Anonymous No.17616799]

>>17616737
>European authors write European fantasies
What a shock.
It’s good for new authors to make fantasy settings based on different mythology though, even if it’s not elves and dwarves western fantasy often becomes same-y

[Anonymous No.17616819]

This is a good article and the woman who wrote it has a pretty balanced and correct opinion. She noticed there was no African ‘high fantasy’ and then made it herself. Of course, it’s just YA and not on the level of Tolkien at all but that’s fine, who cares?

[Anonymous No.17616822]

Imagine knowing that your ancestors had no castles, no swords, no armors, no horses, no cool battles, no long dresses, no fantastic tales that are remembered to this day.
Must be very sad, indeed.

[Anonymous No.17616823]

>>17616790
>yeah i loved the story of other US military and how he gave AIDS to every girl in the village during the sexual initiation voodoo ritual
FTFY

[Anonymous No.17616827]

>>17616752
>>17616774
>>17616799
Didn’t read it did you
>>17616819
correct

[Anonymous No.17616833]

>>17616790
Who laughs at this stuff? It's the same joke every time.

[Anonymous No.17616841]

>>17616819
I had the same impression, there is nothing wrong with this and it's actually kind of what Tolkien did himself with some of the old Euro myths from the continent.

[Anonymous No.17616843]

>>17616737
>I made my own African fantasy series
Good. Literally what I want them to do.
>>17616822
Brer Rabbit stories all have West African equivalents.

[Anonymous No.17616851]

>>17616774
I would read a Pratchett-esque fantasy series with Anansi in it

[Anonymous No.17616858]

>>17616833
/pol/ is a pathetic and laughable shadow of itself at this point, the "memes" they churn out nowadays are 9gag tier shit.

[Anonymous No.17616868]

>>17616822
>he doesn't know the secrets of the griots
Didn't have to out yourself as a hyena-like commoner there anon

[Anonymous No.17616871]

Creating your own is better than race-swapping.

[Anonymous No.17616875]

>>17616737
Good for you, now stop blackwashing European tales

[Anonymous No.17616879]

>>17616858
Yeah the Jew infographics have the same kinda feeling to them as the old autistic shit about Bieber that came out of 9gag, that was truly a horrific time to be alive

[Anonymous No.17616887]

I will now buy your book.

[Anonymous No.17616891]

>>17616841
Threads like this filled with retards seething at a black person for existing and writing a book really reveal the brain rot people get from this site. I mean jesus christ, at least investigate a thing before forming an opinion on it, right? But these people can’t do it. The NPCs are right here on 4chan, not anywhere else

[Anonymous No.17616895]

Imagine caring about this.

[Anonymous No.17616906]

>>17616887
she cute

[Anonymous No.17616914]

>>17616737
This is why blacks are left out in the first place

[Anonymous No.17616921]

>>17616891
>Threads like this filled with retards seething at a black person for existing and writing a book
There is only one post that could be interpreted this way.

[Anonymous No.17616943]

How could we have forgotten such African fantasy classics as
>the Fairie Kween
>The Lord of the Rangs: The Gang of the Rang; The Two Crackhouses; The Parole of the Kang
>Never Coming Home
>His Dark Melanin: Busted Lights; The Subtle Switchblade; The Amber 40oz
>Dickworld: The Colour of Voodoo; The Light Funktastic; Civil Rites; Morterius; (hot) Saucery; Freaky Sistahs; Pyramids(they wuz ours); Police! Police!; ̷F̷a̷u̷s̷t̷-̷ Dishawn; Grooving Pictures; Raper Man; Bitches Abroad; Wooden Gods; Homies and Hoes; Niggas at Glocks; SOOOUULL Music; Interesting Crimes; Ski-maskerade; Feet of Jordans; The Wogfather; Pongo; The Underdeveloped Continent; Carpe Bursa; The Poached Elephant; The Juice; Thief of Rhyme; The First Quartile; The Amazing Mauritian and his “Educated” Immigrants; Tight Crotch; The Wee (want that for) Free Men; 92nd Infantry Division Regiment; A Gatt Full of Lie; Working Postal; Chud!; WilliamSmith; Stealing Money; Unseen Academic Reports; I Shall Wear Sweatpants; Nuff(in); Raising Storefronts; The Oba’s Crown
But actually I think high fantasy inspired by African folktales, mythology etc. is a cool idea, I’m glad she’s writing about it. I’d still like people to contribute some more titles to this post though

[Anonymous No.17616950]

>>17616891
>retards seething at a black person for existing

"Black People" don't even exist though. There's literally thousands of races with dark skin and it makes no sense to lump them all together.

[Anonymous No.17616987]

>>17616891
I am in the sad position where I think there's a bit of truth to both sides, and for that I am hated by all

[Anonymous No.17617012]

>>17616891
npcs are everywhere, npc is really just the default state of humans, and you can only break free from it occasionally and about a minority of topics you invest the time and effort in to understand.

[Anonymous No.17617038]

>>17616823
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-38028065

[Anonymous No.17617046]

>>17616737
I actually saw this earlier and skimmed through the article; one thing that stuck out to me is that she didn't bash Tolkien or Lewis for being racist or whatever, she said that she was just doing what they did for their culture, for her culture. She seems to be legitimately motivated by creating something for her culture instead of virtue signaling or demanding reparations and shit. Seems really cool to me, she's actually making her own stories instead of taking existing ones and shoehorning diversity into them like other woke authors try to do. I see no problems with this and I don't really understand whats causing all the seething here

now, on the other hand, are her stories going to be as good as those of Tolkien's or Lewis'? Most likely not, but then again most fantasy authors today aren't much better

[Anonymous No.17617057]

>>17617038
>The practice of "widow cleansing", when a widow must have sex after her husband dies, was outlawed a few years ago.
I feel like I'm missing some context here.

[Anonymous No.17617106]

>>17616774
Any recs? I really like what I’ve read by Tutuola.

[Anonymous No.17617111]

>>17616827
I was insulting how homosexually the title of the article was worded.
I literally said that it’s good for fantasy authors to explore new mythologies, you didn’t read my post, did you?

[Anonymous No.17617188]

>>17616737
Op was intending this to be b8 for reactionaries but there’s actually nothing wrong with this, at least from a reactionary POV. She deeply respects Tolkien and enjoyed his stories based on European mythologies, so she’s inspired to create stories based on mythologies from her own heritage. Based and redpilled if I do say so myself.

[Anonymous No.17617207]

>>17616774
They can make their own fucking stories that’s fine but keep it out of western fantasy you fucking cuckhold.

[Anonymous No.17617218]

>>17617207
Black people are part of the western world now, get over it.

[Anonymous No.17617219]

>>17616774
>>17616819
>>17616891
>>17617046
>>17617188
lots of nigger lovers ITT

[Anonymous No.17617229]

Like >>17616819 said this is the best response to feeling left out of fantasy. Instead of trying to change what's already been made she's creating her own stuff which is nice to see.

[Anonymous No.17617233]

>>17617106
If you haven't read the Epic of Sundiata you should. Yoruba Myths by Ulli Beier is also pretty kino. Read Wole Basedinka if you want a modern writer who is heavily influenced by African (Nigerian to be specific) folklore.

[Anonymous No.17617247]

>>17617219
How old are you? No matter the answer you are pathetic. Grow up.

[Anonymous No.17617255]

>>17617219
being fanatically hostile to black people is just as gay as being fanatically self-loathing. they're both autism bred of reductive ideology. inb4 you quote race stats at me, they have no bearing on your sperging out at some YA writer

[Anonymous No.17617284]

>>17617218
No they’re not lmao. Blacks have been in the us for 400 years they’re stil less integrated then Italians that came 70 years ago. They’re a tiny serf caste used as minions of the elites that hates the society they’re guest to.

[Anonymous No.17617314]

>>17617284
>the US is Western society
>muh integration
Didn't know hicks could use the internet

[Anonymous No.17617332]

>>17617219
>I said the n word lmao, you mad cuck?

[Anonymous No.17617360]

>>17617284
Almost like it helps someone if workers remain divided

[Anonymous No.17617369]

>>17617233
Cool, thank you anon

[Anonymous No.17617374]

>>17617314
>muh integration
Not him but cultural integration of immigrants is hugely important to the success and stability of a country. When Rome stopped doing it as well they got raped by German barbarians.
>>17617284
Italians didn’t spend centuries as literal property and a further century under legal segregation. Italians also weren’t as heavily fucked with by the US government (crack and aids in ghettos along with general encouragement of violent gangs)

[Anonymous No.17617382]

>>17617374
>muh barbars
Hoi4 tier understanding of history

[S10241875 No.17617386]

>>17616737
In my opinion, right. Why add colored characters (or change those that exist) to existing books when you can write your own. It might be pretty interesting.
The wrong way is to change someone else's, the right way is to create your own.

[Anonymous No.17617393]

>>17617382
I didn’t say it was the only cause of their decline, but letting in thousands of mercenaries and settlers that didn’t even speak Latin is directly related to the increasing atomisation of the empire

[Anonymous No.17617408]

>>17616737
>Yes, some Black people had been slaves, but others had been queens, kings, adventurers, tricksters, country folk.
WE WUZ KANGZ

[Anonymous No.17617409]

>>17617374
Why does any of this make black people not part of the western world?

[Anonymous No.17617411]

>>17617332
This ain't it, chief.

[Anonymous No.17617418]

>>17616737
Good this is better than them pushing to BLACKED western fantasy and turn Frodo Baggins into Afro Baggins. Ken Liu who is asian did something similar with his "silkpunk" fantasy novels that have a southeast asian aesthetic .

[Anonymous No.17617464]

>>17617409
I didn’t say they weren’t I was saying that downplaying the importance of cultural integration is reductive and dangerous.

[Anonymous No.17617478]

>>17616737
>My debut novel The Gilded Ones is set in Otera, an African-inspired fantasy world. It follows a group of girls who are deemed demons by society because they are Alaki, near-immortal beings who are faster and stronger than regular humans. When actual demons invade, the girls are given a choice: fight them or die.

So its just a YA fantasy novel with the same tired plot.

[Anonymous No.17617498]

>>17617393
The mercenaries were a factor yes, but it's not like the Gauls or many Illyrians integrated either, and you don't exactly hear about the Illyrians sacking Rome do you? Promximity and an internal weakness allowed the Goths to think about doing what they did in the first place, it was a symptom of the inherent weakness of such an overextended empire with a deteriorating central authority.

[Anonymous No.17617510]

americans are race obsessed consumers with no real culture

[Anonymous No.17617534]

>>17617498
I said I agree that it was a contributing factor not the whole story. Don’t smugly agree while pretending to say something confounding, sophist

[Anonymous No.17617556]

>>17617534
I'm saying it wasn't a contributing factor as much as it was a symptom of an issue that was already present.

[Anonymous No.17617655]

>>17617218
Absolutely not. Blacks are a poverty class that, regardless of the amount of handouts and benefits given to them, cannot play a functional role in society for the most part, beyond a few niches like music or sports (which only constitutes a small % of blacks). The vast majority live as net-negative contributor.

[Anonymous No.17617668]

>>17617314
Black's haven't been integrated in Europe either. In France, UK, Germany, Netherlands, blacks make up the most crime ridden and underperforming demographic. Maybe only perhaps gypsies perform worse.

[Anonymous No.17617716]

>>17617374
Slave ownership was entirely common practice for the vast majority of human history. Tons of Greeks, Italians, and other Europeans were kept as slaves. The muh oppression argument is a total cop-out. Jews were forbidden from most professions and kept in ghettos, they still made something of themselves and they weren't given programs or handouts. Entire areas of Europe were wiped off the map (like Poland) and controlled by other powers, but are rebuilding after one generation since communism ended.

[Anonymous No.17617735]

>>17617668
>Maybe only perhaps gypsies perform worse.
I will say, blacks may have huge problems, but gypsies and travellers are even worse, they aren’t even integrated into the civilisational structure properly, they should all be rounded up.
t. Grew up in an area with many of the latter then moved to an area of the former

[Anonymous No.17617763]

Imagine being so obsessed with race-consciousness that you can't enjoy a story. "I wanted to like it... but I BLACK!"

[Anonymous No.17617895]

https://youtu.be/uwjxQoTyVAE?t=933

[Anonymous No.17617994]

>black person writes a fantasy book based on African mythology and their ancestral culture
>/pol/tards seethe and start crying about “niggers” and “western civilisation”
Holy fucking shit. Is the left right when they say racism is built on nothing but hate? I can’t imagine having such a dull mind, such a bigoted outlook, that not only are you not in the least interested in cultures other than your own, but actively seethe with hate and contempt when you come into contact with them. It’s the epitome of ignorance.

[Anonymous No.17618055]

>>17616737
Im not claiming that african mythology is not interesting, but why copy Tolkien?

[Anonymous No.17618156]

>>17617994
Just accept that there are no good guys in this fight.

[Anonymous No.17618169]

>>17618055
Many established fantasy authors did too. What makes her stand out? Tolkien himself wasn't exactly a complete original.

[Anonymous No.17618270]

>>17616737
This is actually good. Nothing wrong with black books by black people, black films with black actors. I wouldn't want to watch or read them, but they would and thsts nice. Better by far than they steal ours.

[Anonymous No.17618279]

>>17618169
>What makes her stand out?
Well she’s a, you know

[Anonymous No.17618295]

>>17617218
yes, but is africana? vodoo and stuff maybe, but idk how much “Africa” as in African culture is in African Americans. especially seeing as how the slaves where caught from all around and were not a homogenous culture. culturally, afro-americans have more in common with euros than Africans. Not that they are completely disconnected, but in terms of authentic cultural heritage.

[Anonymous No.17618299]

>>17617994
>s the left right when they say racism is built on nothing but hate?
obviously not, but there is a lot of hate involved, both as cause and effect

[Anonymous No.17618340]

>>17617994
>Is the left right
the left is the ones who polemicized the right to be this retarded you retard.

you cry wolf enough then people dont believe you. when you make so many miopic and forced statement, when one is legitimately good and authentic, people will assume its just another of the shit pile.

this makes people say the right things for the wrong reasons and the wrong things for the right reasons.

[Anonymous No.17618386]

>>17616819
But if she wrote her own book and released it without shitting on Tolkien, she wouldn't get any attention. And even now, I don't think she's prepared to handle the criticism of her novel, and will brush off all criticism of it as covert or overt racism. You can't win with these people, they have a perpetual victim complex because they think everyone hates them, and not because their work isn't worth reading.

[Anonymous No.17618430]

>>17617735
The thing with travellers is that they are actually good at what they do. They're quite well organised and live like parasites of the society they inhabit. Blacks are coddled by the state, media, and institutions. The travellers get no such treatment, they carve something out for themselves, where blacks just seem to wander around aimlessly on gib inertia.

[Anonymous No.17618452]

>>17617219
based

[Anonymous No.17618465]

Feeling included and represented in the work is basically the point of fantasy and genre fiction and children's fiction. So who cares. If she were saying and attempting the same thing for actual literature then that would be retarded and would deserve criticism.

[Anonymous No.17618475]

>>17618430
i think being so physiologically appearance wise different doesnt help lmao. its like permanently having a star of david tattooed on your skin. on a purely implicit level, both from the point of veiw of an out and in group, its very easy to form apearent and actual groupings which feed on each other societally to form a more static social grouping lmao.

[Anonymous No.17618477]

>>17616737
I'm pretty sure everyone is lying about representation being important, otherwise the imperial guard would be the most popular 40k army

[Anonymous No.17618506]

>>17618465
i think that actual garbo tabliods and legitamently interesting and decent concepts share the same heading design and image format and use similar wording.

I personally mostly hate wokeness because it makes it, from a immediate pov, hard to distinguish actually good content from pre-judged worthless moral jerk off sessions made for clicks.

I think thats the biggest shame in all of this.

[Anonymous No.17618526]

I read the first page. Why are YA books always so needlessly descriptive about irrelevant objects?

>It's early morning, and the sun hasn't yet begun its climb above the snow-dusted trees encircling our farmhouse.

[Anonymous No.17618530]

>>17616737
>Black American cosplaying as African
more offensive than blackface. You were sold away to the white man for a reason.

[Anonymous No.17618551]

>>17617106
the palm wine drinkard is possibly the single most unique book i've ever read

[Anonymous No.17618567]

>>17616819

[Anonymous No.17618595]

Black and white people simply cannot live together. The sooner this charade ends the better.

[Anonymous No.17618715]

>>17617332
YWNBAW

[Anonymous No.17618748]

>>17617219
I'll be a cracker-hater to balance it out

[Anonymous No.17618766]

>>17616737
has anyone actually read this

[Anonymous No.17618846]

>>17616891
I don't get how it's a big deal though. It's like... the most racist part of the entire thing is the extremely liberal surprise that BLACK PEOPLE CAN WRITE BOOKS TOO and the congratulatory, almost overly-precious way that the guardian makes such a huge deal out of it is cringe.
I doubt anyone on lit thought otherwise, but the article feels like it's coming from the presupposition that high fantasy is raysiss because it's mostly elves, dwarves, goblins and stuff. Well yeah, that comes from Western mythology. If African mythology is any good it would be amazing to see some Lord of the Rings level fiction come out of that place!

But it won't, and pretending some YA fiction is comparable is unbelievably racist in and of itself, because I'd like to think that any good black writer would be able to write a great story without trying to pull the card and get victim status and protection from the Guardian of all things.

[Anonymous No.17618878]

>>17618846
NTAYRT, but it's fairly common for authors to speak about their inspiration and reasons for writing, especially for new books, and even moreso for ones that will probably be popular. See >>17618376 in one of the other threads about this topic

[Anonymous No.17619245]

>>17616790
Hahahahahaha

[Anonymous No.17619274]

>>17618386
But they ARE hated. That's the point.

[Anonymous No.17619301]

>>17616737
I'm racist as fuck but there's no reason to get mad at this,
This site has lost its mind.

[Anonymous No.17619311]

>>17619301
>I'm racist, BUT
This is the new version of "I'm not racist, but"
Fuck off, leftist race-mixer

[Anonymous No.17619438]

>>17616737
> But in every Black book that won a medal, or every Black film that won an Oscar, there was always a Black person struggling against racial oppression. There are consequences to only lauding such portrayals. Perpetually tying the narrative of Black people and Blackness to slavery, colonisation and oppression meant that Black people – Black children especially – were denied the chance to see ourselves as heroes with agency over our worlds. And non-Black people were denied the chance to root for us, only feeling pity and, of course, relief that they were not Black.
Wow, extremely based.

[Anonymous No.17619449]

>>17616943
Based

[Anonymous No.17619579]

>>17616737

[Anonymous No.17619606]

>>17616790
holy KEK

[Anonymous No.17619620]

>>17617219
Reddit raid. Ignore.

[Anonymous No.17619828]

>lotr fan
you'd have thought that they'd leave white trash garbage to white trash

[Anonymous No.17619835]

>>17616822
You talking about Abos or something? My ancestors had all of that stuff.

[Anonymous No.17619860]

>>17617408
This meme losing all of its original context is almost as funny as this meme being based on the false idea that there were no negro pharoahs.

[Anonymous No.17619878]

>>17617763
Have you been to /v/ or /tv/? This criticism is true for all groups, and any self analysis of your group will bear this out as true.

[Anonymous No.17619957]

>>17616827
>Giving a click to the guardian
Post screenshot and I'll read it.

[Anonymous No.17619970]

>>17617284
>. Blacks have been in the us for 400 years they’re stil less integrated then Italians that came 70 years ago.

gee i wonder why. like you almost have it, but we both know youre dumb ass is going to miss the point.

[Anonymous No.17619996]

>>17618526
There's nothing wrong with that sentence other than the unnecessary comma. It gives a clear and vivid picture of the setting; describing the trees as 'snow-dusted' is very nice. I don't know what your problem is. Also how can you charge YA novels with being descriptive when they are generally less descriptive than adult novels.

[Anonymous No.17620022]

>>17619970
you assume the point, and if anyone were to suggest an alternative you'd reject it regardless of evidence

[Anonymous No.17620036]

>>17620022
Go ahead then. Suggest an alternative, dumb bitch.

[Anonymous No.17620121]

I wonder why these people think literature needs to be inclusive. Not only that but just the fact that one could feel left out by an author that died x number of years before you were born just exposes one's own narcissism.

Read Huck Finn there's a black guy in that book bro

[Anonymous No.17620127]

The Lord of the Rings isn't for black people, and wasn't made for them. It was made for Europeans in mind. I am glad that she created something of her own.

[Anonymous No.17620130]

>>17618386
She is talking about the fact that black mythology remains unexplored in fantasy literature, and she wishes to fill that gap with her own writings. Her whole article is making the point that black literature and art focuses too much on 'oppression'; she instead wants to present a positive view of blackness, drawing from African history and mythology. There is nothing in this article which is blaming Tolkien or anything like that, you vile bastard. In fact she repeatedly talks about being a fan of Tolkien. Her only point, literally, is that she wants to see more fantasy literature drawing from African mythology rather than just European.
This person is merely trying to give an expression to her own culture rather than crying about victimhood and all you can do is throw out snobbish, racist remarks about it. What drives you to this level of hatred?

[Anonymous No.17620133]

>>17618386
This is literally just a baseless assumption made about this woman because she’s black.

[Anonymous No.17620134]

>>17620121
Read the article. She's not crying about feeling left out of literature. She wanted to represent her own culture the same way Tolkien represented European culture in Middle Earth. She was inspired by him, not shitting on him.

[Anonymous No.17620144]

>>17617332
niggggggerrrr

[Anonymous No.17620147]

>>17619970
Every single race on earth has been enslaved, including Europeans. Rome and Greece were slave owners. In Russia even up to the first world War, there were effective serfs, who lived on land owned by richer farmers and were practically owned. But somehow we are meant to believe that black slavery has some magical effect on blacks. You should also remember that slavery was a common practice among blacks, the slaves sold and sent to the Americas were already slaves before arriving there and they sure as hell got a better living than if they stayed in Africa.

[Anonymous No.17620176]

>>17620134
I see. That's pretty based then

[Anonymous No.17620188]

>>17620176
Peak 4chan retard

[Anonymous No.17620205]

YES!! Finally! They understand! THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO DO!! Today, niggers weren't useless. Biggest white pill this week so far.

[Anonymous No.17620243]

>>17618055
>Im not claiming that african mythology is not interesting, but why copy Tolkien?

[Anonymous No.17620261]

>>17620205
They don't do the "right" thing on purpose.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFxu3Q71NvE&ab_channel=JonathanPageau

[Anonymous No.17620262]

>>17620243
>Toussant L'Overture
This guy was actually pretty based, what are you talking about?

[Anonymous No.17620297]

>>17616841
>>17616891

These desu

Tolkien created LotR partly because he wanted to establish a “mythology” for the British isles since he felt like they didn’t have any (unlike other European countries, he particularly drew inspiration from Beowulf). This woman is creating her own afro-fantasy setting because she didn’t feel like there was one, just like Tolkien created LotR in the first place

[Anonymous No.17620371]

>>17616790
fucking kek

>>17616833
me

[Anonymous No.17621365]

>>17616851
I can get you a close one. Neil Gaiman did Anansi Boys and I thought it was pretty good