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/lit/ - Literature


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17616118 No.17616118[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

Oh no no no /pol/ + /leftypol/ bros you told me everything was getting worse and that liberalism is for cucks...

>> No.17616129
File: 7 KB, 250x250, bugbegone.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17616129

>>17616118

>> No.17616136

>>17616129
Not an argument

>> No.17616140

>>17616118
better angels came out before /pol/ even existed

>> No.17616143

>>17616118
I'd read this if the title wasn't so tasteless.

>> No.17616148

>>17616118
Are there people who actually read guys like Pinker, Harris etc? I am sure they exist, but I have never seen one. It's difficult to imagine.

>> No.17616149

>>17616140
Clearly they haven't read it or they'd drop the fascist larp

>> No.17616150

>>17616148
pinker is in a completely different class than any of the IDW hacks

>> No.17616156

>>17616150
Isn't he another member of the "I am not like other neoliberals" grifter clique?

>> No.17616165

>>17616148
Me

>> No.17616167
File: 513 KB, 2560x1860, ticklemepinker.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17616167

>>17616136
>"Even for wealthy Western urbanites, who always had the run of the palaces of culture, access to arts and letters has expanded tremendously. When I was a student, a movie buff had to wait years for a classic film to be shown at a local repertory theater or on late-night television, if it was shown at all; today it can be streamed on demand...Cheap hi-fi headphones and, soon, cardboard virtual-reality glasses enhance the aesthetic experience well beyond the tinny speakers and muddy black-and-white reproduction of my youth."
>"But are we any happier? If we have a shred of cosmic gratitude, we ought to be...He or she can spend that leisure time reading on the Web, listening to music on a smartphone, streaming movie son high-definition TV, Skyping with friends and relatives, or dining on Thai food instead of Spam fritters."
>"Also, people single out freedom as component of a meaningful life, whether or not it leads to a happy life. Like Frank Sinatra, they may have regrets, they may take blows, but they do it their way."

1. We can consume more readily and with less effort, therefore we are happier
2. The gratuitous democratisation of high culture via technology, i.e. rendering it too a product, has improved life and somehow culture itself
3. By the way, to summarise my feeble attempt at quantifying happiness, let me quote Frank Sinatra...

It gets worse.

>"Epithets aside, the idea that the world is better than it was and can get b better still fell out of fashion among the clerisy long ago. In 'The Idea of Decline in Western History', Arthur Herman shows that the prophets of doom are the all-stars in the liberal arts curriculum (he names Nietzsche, Schopenhauer, Heidegger, Adorno, Benjamin, Marcuse, Sartre, Fanon, Foucault, Said and also Cornel West for some inexplicable reason) ... Yes, it's not just those who intellectualize for a living who think that the world is going to hell in a handcart. It's ordinary people when the switch into intellectualizing mode. Psychologists have long known that people tend to see their own lives through rose-colored glasses: they think they're less likely than the average person to become the victim of a divorce ... But change the question from the people's (sic) lives to their society, and they transform from Pollyanna to Eyeore,. Public opinion researchers call it the Optimism Gap."

1. Thoughtful criticism of the consequences of Enlightenment rationality is bad, mkay?
2. Thinking makes you turn from Pollyanna to Eyeore, just like how Thanos is happy with himself but wants to wipe out the universe. If you're happy with yourself, why be unhappy about other things, bro?
3. Ignore those dumb thinkers, let's get empirical and listen to American public opinion pollsters

Pinker is the final boss of bugmen.

>> No.17616179

>>17616156
he's not a polemicist. though his superficial political views just happen to align with the IDW crowd, he's much more intellectually and rhetorically rigorous and less ideologically motivated than them

>> No.17616184
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17616184

Shouldn't Pinker be on Epsteins island?

Imbecile

>> No.17616189

>>17616179
>he's much more intellectually and rhetorically rigorous and less ideologically motivated than them
lol

he doesn't even understand basic statistics which undermines his whole book retard

>> No.17616198

>>17616148
Pinker, unlike Harris, is considered seriously in his field, regardless of what his social commentary. He is about on par with Stephen Jay Gould or Richard Dawkins as a scientist.

>> No.17616200

>>17616189
you don't even understand basic statistics, so how would you be able to appraise pinker's understanding of it?

>> No.17616212
File: 53 KB, 828x821, ihatescience.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17616212

>>17616198
LOL "field". Pinker's so-called "science" is bunk, just like the rest of science. Pinker is simply bugman cope.

>> No.17616224

>>17616118
>"My new favorite book of all time." - Bill Gates
Good to know

>> No.17616226

>>17616212
Based and anti intellectual pilled

>> No.17616228

>>17616167
Good analysis. He suffers from a crude materialism and ideological self-blindness. You would think that a psychologist would have a better understanding of what makes people happy. Instead like a clueless egghead he looks at graphs about how many people have smartphones or whatever and calls that progress.

>> No.17616291

>>17616118
Pinkers role is as sort of a high priest for modern technocrat liberalism. He makes the ruling elites think better about themselves, which is why he is respected. He's also Jewish. All of his arguments can be quite easily refuted.

>> No.17616301

>>17616167
Your sic on people's is not warranted, pseud pleb.

>> No.17616307

>>17616291
Take your meds.

>> No.17616313

>>17616291
Please explain the relevance of Pinker's Jewish blood to his arguments in Enlightenment Now.

>> No.17616319

Lol @ all the pleb sub humans thinking their opinions on Pinker matter in the slightest. You WILL own nothing. You WILL take the vaccine. You WILL live in the pod. You WILL be happy.

>> No.17616331

>>17616228
Ad hominem, abusive

>> No.17616333

>>17616307
This is /lit/. It's called Soma holiday.

>> No.17616338

>>17616167
Some points are straw men, others non arguments.

>> No.17616342

life is better as you can now 'live' to 100. an extra 30 years to watch the degeneration of all that is good and pure from your nursing home.

>> No.17616351

The amusing thing about Pinker critics on 4chan is that they exhibit the very intellectual weaknesses which Pinker describes--overbearing nostalgia and a stated preference for feelings over data.

>> No.17616354

>>17616148
Normies who browse Amazon bestsellers for self-help and those that go to Barnes & Noble.
>liberalism is for cucks
Death to marriage, monogamy, and any sense of private property.

>> No.17616359

>>17616331
Unintelligent, stupid

>> No.17616364

>>17616354
>marriage, monogamy, private property
All for cucks, argue against me

>> No.17616370

>>17616351
>preference for feelings over data
Those cold, hard facts that just give everyone the tingles and aren’t manipulated by any sort of means and are a clear reflection of reality.

>> No.17616374

>>17616359
Doesn't read, early undergrad "traditionalist"

>> No.17616383

>>17616370
Please describe the means by which mortality rate statistics have been manipulated.

>> No.17616394

>>17616364
>All for cucks
I mean, you’re not wrong. It’s all just nonsense meant to propagate the human species in a time when survival of the community was often at stake and needed a more rigorous and stable grounding.

>> No.17616407

>>17616394
>Rigorous and stable
Muh vows, muh purity

>> No.17616410

>>17616394
>marriage, monogamy, private property
>all just nonsense
No they're social technologies that create stability and prosperity

>> No.17616418

>>17616383
>Please describe the means by which mortality rate statistics have been manipulated.
But I’ve been taught that correlation!=causation. I don’t see how people living longe that’s any sort of bearing on anything except they can be productive ants for longer than usually expected in a natural environment. You could argue as well that extended life is a overwhelming burden to our medical system, social security drainage, their political views seeping into the youths problems, etc.

>> No.17616420

>>17616313
His argument is in support of maintaining the current order of things, a system where Jews play a predominant role and have substantial power relative to their tiny population. He is also extremely aware of his Jewishness and recognizes that Jews have an average IQ that is higher than most other races. He also had a debate with Kevin Macdonald, though it was more of a baseless attack, which only further shows how aware of his Jewishness he is.

>> No.17616425

>>17616351
>feelings
People experience feelings, not data. And people are generally very unhappy nowadays. Rather than seek to rationalize this unhappiness away, "How aren't you happy? We have the internet and grubhub and gadgets!" a true analysis would ask why people are so unhappy rather than patronizingly explain it away and tell them they're wrong.

Why are depression rates so positively correlated with the growth of Moore's law? What about all the bad effects of social media on mental health? What about a relentless screen culture where people spend more time on computers and less time moving around in the world like three dimensional creatures? What about increased self-reports of loneliness and isolation? Stratospheric wealth inequality? Political instability and almost worldwide riots? Obesity from all the food? Pinker either has no account for this or explains it away as statistical noise. People live their experience. They don't live statistics

>> No.17616427

>>17616410
When your husband beats the shit out of you and emotionally abuses you, this is a good thing because you're making society stable

>> No.17616433

midwitcore
pseudcore
dunning krucore

>> No.17616436

>>17616374
Explain to me how Pinker doesn't suffer from crude materialism and ideological blindness. I'll wait.

>> No.17616440

Pinker is midwit repellent. Here's what you think the bell curve looks like:
>Subhuman: Boomercon nationalist
>Midwit: Globalist urbanite
>(You) Smartest: Nationalist

Here's what it really is:
>Subhuman: Boomercon
>(You) Midwit: Nationalist
>Smartest: Technocratic elites who control your every move, subhuman cattle.

>> No.17616442

>>17616418
State the preferred alternative. War every 10 years? Famine every 20? Certain death from bacterial infection?

>> No.17616445

>>17616407
>Muh vows, muh purity
Which I believe aren’t needed anymore as we’ve secured human existence rather forthrightly. It’s okay to be whatever. Who cares. Humanity will never fail.
>>17616410
>No they're social technologies that create stability and prosperity
In a certain environment, yes. Highly mobile social society may prove that they are not entirely beneficial for providing max happiness to the populace.

>> No.17616447

>>17616425
you're literally using statistics to prove your point

>> No.17616448

>>17616427
Whether it's good or not isn't really the point, societies that do it outcompete those that don't. If you really think marriage was historically just men beating their wives all the time you've been memed on though.

>> No.17616450

>>17616442
>The absolute state

>> No.17616452

>>17616436
Crude materialism and ideological blindness need to be defined.

>> No.17616457

>>17616442
>State the preferred alternative
Heavy on the anti-natalism in order to provide counter weight for the pro-life crowd. Anglos at least are demoralized enough and too poor to have kids so I guess maybe tis is only a temporary phenomena of major technological advances.

>> No.17616459

>>17616351
>stated preference for feelings over data.
Like the data that shows blacks commit the majority of violent crime and the majority of black countries/cities/town become shitholes?
Or the data that shows Jews are overrepresented in academia, finance, media, and anywhere where there is power to be gained, relative to their population size?
Or how about the data that shows some races have lower IQs and that is mostly nature, not nurture?
These facts completely destroy the type of smug liberalism he promotes and exposes his hypocrisy.

>> No.17616461

>>17616450
You did not state the preferred alternative.

>> No.17616464

>>17616448
Life isn't age of empires you fucking retard

>> No.17616494

>>17616459
Pinker writes on the topic of nature v nature in his book "The Blank Slate," and you might be surprised to hear his conclusions.

As to your statements about Jews, any intellectually honest person should be able to see why the race with the highest IQ and with close knit communities concentrated in influential urban centers, with a long history of professional and financial excellence would be successful in the West. Can you see why they might be successful independent of a cosmic conspiracy, possibly involving reptilian aliens?

>> No.17616495

>>17616198
>>Pinker, unlike Harris, is considered seriously in his field, regardless of what his social commentary. He is about on par with Stephen Jay Gould or Richard Dawkins as a scientist.
so complete trash idolized by CS students and other failed undergrads addicted to big bang theory? Got it.

>> No.17616512

>>17616495
Low intellectual openness, cynical. Not going anywhere fast. Sad.

>> No.17616515

>>17616447
I'm literally using an argument. Why is Pinker ignoring all these statistics to prop up his confirmation bias if he is so data-driven?

>> No.17616526

>>17616118
What buugmen like will never acknowledge is that a truly fulfilllinf life is not measured in material conditions, so you can't present any data showing how things are getting better or worse.
What good does it make living until you are 90 if your kids drop you off at a retirement house and you can't reconcile yourself with your own mortality?
I would gladly take a life of purpose, duty and brotherhood and die at 29 than living aimlessly but with enough wealth to buy an hd tv and a Subaru.

>> No.17616535

>>17616198
Very insulting to Dawkins to compare him to Gould

>> No.17616538

>>17616526
He's an atheist jew, they're peak materialism by definition

>> No.17616545

>>17616425
>Obesity
Pinker points out that starvation was the problem for most of history. Obesity is a junior grade problem by comparison.
>Tech problems
Pinker discusses this, though I think he tries to minimize it in the context of previous tech moral outrages over TV, radio, newspapers, and printing press. I agree that there are problems coming from tech overruse, though I suspect that once the problem gets bad enough we will find ways to limit it.

>> No.17616574

>>17616515
He knows psychology is pseudoscience and depression "statistics" are not trustworthy

>> No.17616584
File: 25 KB, 550x725, lepolface.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17616584

>>17616545
Bla bla bla words words words. you expect me to read all that?

>> No.17616586

>>17616118
Isn’t he a pedo?

>> No.17616591

Where we're at realistically is recognizing the inherent emptiness of Liberal capitalism while not really having a material competitor to it, yet. Where we can mog on the opp is the frustrated defense they provide against any formulation of an alternative, even recognizing the possibility of an alternative is viewed as a sort of heresy. A threat.

The entire thing is predicated on defending your little slice of the market to the preservation of the big market. Existential terror at some philosophical treatise that threatens the same-day delivery of things to put in your anus.

>> No.17616606

>>17616494
>As to your statements about Jews, any intellectually honest person should be able to see why the race with the highest IQ
So you accept IQ differences between races?
>and with close knit communities concentrated in influential urban centers
So what you're saying is they are very racially/ethnically aware of themselves, as opposed to the other? We agree.
>with a long history of professional and financial excellence would be successful in the West.
So you're saying Jews have been equipped, through history and time, in a uniquely beneficial way that would allow them to exploit and dominate the type of financial system-based society we live in? We agree.
>Can you see why they might be successful independent of a cosmic conspiracy
This is a strawman, nobody is saying that Jews meet up in smoke-filled rooms and scheme nefarious plans, though that does happen, but that is not wholly how Jewish power operates. It's simply in the interest of Jews to look after their own interests (of which they are really well aware of, hence the countless Jewish interest groups, over 600 in the US alone, and a powerful Jewish lobby that influences US foreign policy). Their interests, however, largely go against the ethnic interests of Europeans. It's in the interest of Jews to keep Europeans from having a similar "identitarianism" that Jews have. This is why you will find, again, disproportionate Jewish influence in politics, particularly in the type of politics that promotes the destruction of European gentile identity.

>> No.17616612

>>17616574
He's a cognitive psychologist.

>> No.17616617

>>17616118
i mean, he's cucked to scientism so...

>> No.17616700

One interesting theory about Jewish intelligence, put forward by Richard Lynn and others, is that the pograms and local and state-level oppression of Jews turned out to be "eugenic" in a way. Jews who had a "sixth sense" about these things, or who were very sensitive to which way the wind was blowing—both of which are a kind of intelligence—would flee before oppression and violence occurred, having intuitively analyzed trends. The Jews that suffered through oppression—which is, of course, highly detrimental towards reproduction—were the ones who stayed home or who lacked the resources or ruthlessness to get out. The more "plugged in," diasporic, even "paranoid" Jews survived and reproduced.

>> No.17616720

>>17616700
That sounds plausible, which book describes this?

>> No.17616733

>>17616535
OK, panda's thumb isn't on the level of selfish gene, it's still a big contribution.

>> No.17616786

>>17616700
This doesn't seem very solid. Many groups have suffered, why would only Jews get this eugenic outcome ?

>> No.17616812

>>17616606
Ok, let's grant that there are lots of powerful Jewish interest groups--though it should be obvious to any observer that they are not all aligned, there are even anti-Zionist jews. Why do you view them as attacking the interests of gentiles? Also why haven't documents been leaked showing the plans of these Jewish groups to undermine gentiles specifically?

>> No.17616816

>>17616786
In theory it applies to any race but for this specifically jews had no homeland until recently so were always on the move, were constantly evicted, and already were selecting for high verbal intelligence from centuries before. No other race has been ousted more than a 100 times from other nations so there's no other comparison.

>> No.17616826
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17616826

>>17616812
>Why do you view them as attacking the interests of gentiles?
Because they observably do
>Also why haven't documents been leaked showing the plans of these Jewish groups to
They have

>> No.17616831

>>17616733
It's not that Gould didn't have real and important contributions, he definitely did, it's that he was very dishonest about a bunch of other subjects within evolutionary biology.

>> No.17616898

ASS

>> No.17616911

>>17616812
>Ok, let's grant that there are lots of powerful Jewish interest groups--though it should be obvious to any observer that they are not all aligned, there are even anti-Zionist jews.
That's true. Anti-zionist Jews, however, don't really have any institutional power or influence. Anti-zionist jews get destroyed, regulated to obscurity, and cast out of the tribe, for the most part. It's zionist jews who hold the power and they are extremely conscious about their ethnic interests, particularly when it comes to Israel.
>Why do you view them as attacking the interests of gentiles?
Because Jews are involved in politics and promote policies that lead to the disfranchisement of native Europeans. It's a danger for Jews to have Europeans see themselves as a distinct ethnic/racial group, with some good historical precedent.
>Also why haven't documents been leaked showing the plans of these Jewish groups to undermine gentiles specifically?
But there are documents. Go see what the ADL, SPLC, AIPAC, etc, and Jews associated with these organizations put out on a regular basis. All are vocal about supporting Jewish interests. It's not a conspiracy in a smoky room, this all out in the open.

>> No.17616922

>Humanism

Yikes.

>> No.17616946
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17616946

>>17616720

>> No.17617167

>>17616118
Ass.

>> No.17617227

>>17616946
Thanks

>> No.17617232

Jesus, why did you all take the bait?

>> No.17617260

>>17617232
We didn't, we are having an interesting discussion about Jewish power, which is an interesting and real force in western society. Simply pointing it out will get your career destroyed.

>> No.17617643
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17617643

>>17617260
>Muh joos

>> No.17617651

>>17617643
Yes?

>> No.17618271

Better Angels of Our Nature is a very good book and I valued reading it very much.

>> No.17618369

>>17616198

> He is about on par with Stephen Jay Gould or Richard Dawkins as a scientist.

In other words midwit researchers of only mild accomplishment who took the easy way out and made their claim to fame as a public figure.

>> No.17618654

Pinker isn't based. /thread

>> No.17618762

>>17616118
IMBECILE!

>> No.17618973

>>17616420
This. Post WW II elite Jews spent so much time creating the critical theory world we now live in (to their benefit). Now that sjw politics is starting to bite at them, elite jews are now reminding everyone that differences between individuals (and thus races) really matter a lot and that dumber people can never replace the smarter people (the jews). Since Jews have such high verbal IQ they always manage to convince dumber whites and minorities, even though they are ultimately just as biased for their own benefits as any other race.

>> No.17618978

>>17616118
>Woah woah, hold up! So you be saying that technological advancement is actually good for humanity? That it's a good thing most people don't live in fear of starvation? That thinking of other people as humans with rights like my own is a good thing, to be celebrated and cherished? That the decline of violence--both war and murder--is a great thing? REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Jews, niggers REEEEEEEEEEEE butt sex REEEEEEEE no qt village virgin REEEEEEEEEEEEE muh purity, muh honor REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>> No.17619050
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17619050

>>17618978
>Reee, I want to live in a no-hurt box and get gay blowjobs all day, why do you keep telling me not to?

>> No.17619288

>Stevie pinko

>> No.17619507

>>17619050
>Life is no longer challenging or worthwhile because war, starvation, and death by bacteria are rare, and sex can be enjoyed without fear of divine retribution

>> No.17619877

Ppl a. Life is shit

Pinker: but if you include the 1 billion ppl b. You will see a 5% in overall happiness.

>> No.17619901
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17619901

>(((pinker)))

>> No.17619954

>>17616118
He doesn't realise that people don't give a single fuck about how bad it was in the past, only how bad it'll get in the future
And right now, the future seems pretty fucking doomed

>> No.17620023
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17620023

>>17616420
>jews advocate for revolution
see how evil and subversive they are!
>jews advocate for status quo
see how evil and subversive they are!

>> No.17620050

>>17616586
source?

>> No.17620953

>>17620023
Yes because it's going to benefit Jews.

>> No.17620995

>>17620023
Jews win in literally every single situation according to /pol/
Master race btw

>> No.17621012

>>17620995
But you don't believe in races... ?

>> No.17621027

>>17621012
I don't, but if you believe in them there's probably nothing more cucked than being white

>> No.17621062

>>17621027
There is nothing more cucked than not being white and the fact you suggest otherwise means you're a jealous shitskin, sweetie.

>> No.17621069

>>17621027
>meanwhile he lives off white creations and charity

>> No.17621075 [DELETED] 

I was listening the audiobook of Zizek's only serious theory book, that Sublime Object one, and after a while the whole thing is just goofy. When you listen to philosophy as an audiobook and you hear it being spoken out loud it really hits home how dumb some of this stuff is. I remember listening to the Phenomenology of Spirit audiobook and laughing out lout at one point before turning it off. If I can't listen to an audiobook of a supposedly serious philosophical work without laughing, I'm dropping it.

>> No.17621151

>>17621069
Exactly

>> No.17622022

>>17616420
An honest well-thought reply which is reasonable for anyone operating with even partial awareness of how the word really works today.

And no, I don’t mean politics. Central banking and the bond market are somewhat conditional to understand the inflows/outflows of the worldstage players, what they believe, and what their goals are for society.

>> No.17622038

>>17616452
He hates God

>> No.17622054

>>17616538
bingo

Anti-whiteness is code for anti-Christian.

Notice how the liberal materialistic jews in the west propagating critical theory have no problem with conservative Islam.

>> No.17622055

>>17622022
Samefag

>> No.17622074

>>17622055
nope I just got here

>> No.17622530

>>17616351
So what? Showing unhappy people they should be happy based on statistics will not magically remove the ennui, nihilism, and existential despair they experience in there lives. What's your solution to that, psychiatric drugs? That doesn't address the problem and only suppresses it. Nobody in this thread is questioning the fact that industrialization has made our lives more materially comfortable and well off, but Pinker fails to acknowledge the problems that came with the technology and exploitation of resources that gave us these same comforts. He's either too willfully ignorant to put 2 and 2 together or just handwaves the problem at best. It's plainly clear us and the Earth are in a worst state than in pre-industrial society. Just take a look at climate change for example. His solution to these problems is to proliferate the means to them, which is profoundly historically ignorant.

>> No.17623122

>>17616816
Gypsies have no homeland, are universally reviled and have been constantly pogromed from like 1500 years. I don't see no Gypsy intellectuals, only drug dealers and beggars.

>> No.17623132

>>17616118
Modernism cannot fix modernity anymore than a dozen queens cannot fix a broken chessboard.

>> No.17623136

>>17616445
Humanity isn't a monolith you fucking tard.

>> No.17623137

>>17623132
fuck that would've sounded smarter if not accidentally written in Gardneresque tense fuckup.

>> No.17623138

>>17623136
>Humanity isn't a monolith you fucking tard.
Life is dead and /lit/ hath killed it.

>> No.17623225

>>17616545
>Obesity is a junior grade problem by comparison.
>Overconsumption, long-term health issues, and inactivity are all junior issues
>Well find ways to limit overconsumption if it becomes too big of a problem
Not if you're arguing its a nonissue and especially not in the land of muh freedumbs where overconsumption has become a big issue. Itd almost be fine to let it burn as an example, but its a cultural zeitgeist that the rest of the world tries to follow for some fucking reason.