/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17604606]

who is the most important poet except anglos?

[Anonymous No.17605254]

>>17604606
for me it's heinrich heine

[Anonymous No.17605258]

>>17604606
Ovid of course

[Anonymous No.17605262]

>>17604606
Homer

[Anonymous No.17606330]

>>17605262
Him or Dante

[Anonymous No.17606340]

Homer for antiquity
Dante for Middle-Age/Renaissance
Baudelaire for modernity

[Anonymous No.17606425]

>>17606340
>Baudelaire for modernity
Sorry, Wagner was a better poet.

[Anonymous No.17606445]

>>17606425
Wagner was the ultimate explosion of the setting sun of romanticism, Baudelaire was the first explosion of the rising sun of art in modernity. Baudelaire is more important.

[Anonymous No.17606501]

>>17606445
Not at all, Wagner was important for both. Wagner could even be considered the earliest modern, and arguably the most important figure for modern art itself.

>"And yet, after having said all this about Modernism, I consider myself a Modernist – but in the context of a vast application of the term extending miles beyond the pokey wee official area to which usually it is confined. For in truth there are really two kinds of Modernism to be uncovered in the space of the last two and a half centuries, and it is to the first and largest of these that I belong and to which, in my small way, I contribute. This is the Modernism that was born in neo-classicism and has, as its great central titan, the mighty Richard Wagner."

[Anonymous No.17606526]

>>17606340
Cringe.

>>17606501
Based.

[Anonymous No.17606533]

>>17606340
>>17606425
>>17606445
>>17606501
>>17606526
ovid better than both

[Anonymous No.17606572]

>>17606501
>arguably the most important figure for modern art itself.
I don’t know anon, I feel like his focus on legends cuts him from this title. Baudelaire on the other hand really does prefigure the poetry to come. Some, like Apollinaire, did a synthesis of both (nuits rhénanes). Could you explain in your own words why you think so?
Anyway Baudelaire liked Wagner: https://fr.m.wikisource.org/wiki/L’Art_romantique/Richard_Wagner_et_Tannhäuser_à_Paris

[Anonymous No.17606626]

>>17604606
>>17606340
>>17606425
>>17606445
Nice try, but it's actually Rilke.

[Anonymous No.17606628]

Rumi

[Anonymous No.17606741]

i have never read poetry and i already ordered rilke, verlaine and lovecraft poems, what do you think?

[Anonymous No.17606748]

>>17606572
>I don’t know anon, I feel like his focus on legends cuts him from this title.
I don't see why, you should see what he breaths into them. The relations between the characters, and this is rather a cliche statement but it's true, is of such hyper familiarity it cannot-not be considered modern. That Wagnerian glance that Nietzsche talked about. And at the same time, the mythological setting made him prime for the symbolists.

No one would deny that Baudelaire was far more important for poetry, especially on a technical level, but Wagner was not unimportant for it either. His use of Stabreim approached many modernistic developments, and his Ring was quoted throughout Eliot's Wasteland, a work influenced by Wagnerian themes. But as artists, I don't think it can be denied that Wagner had the larger influence, though they (and some other artists) will always be inextricably linked as the creators of modernism.

>https://fr.m.wikisource.org/wiki/L’Art_romantique/Richard_Wagner_et_Tannhäuser_à_Paris
Very interesting, do you know when this was written?

[Anonymous No.17606756]

>>17606741
If you're a native English speaker, you should read the English Romantics (specifically Keats), Shakespeare, Beowulf, Chaucer, Milton; Homer, Hesiod, Aeschylus, Sophocles, Euripides, Pindar; Goethe, Schiller, Eschenbach, Strassburg and maybe some of the 20th century poets English poets, before you read them.

[Anonymous No.17606812]

>>17606748
Yeah obviously Wagner is culturally important. I must say my knowledge of him is more limited than of Baudelaire and thus I have trouble seeing his modernity. Eliot is a good point, I do not have the text under my hand but I believe he also quotes Baudelaire and he recognised himself as owing much to him (and the symbolists). I think it’s fair to say that Apollinaire, who was probably the most modern poet of his times - at least in France, references Wagner several times. Here from Nuits Rhenanes:
>Le Rhin le Rhin est ivre où les vignes se mirent
>Tout l’or des nuits tombe en tremblant s’y refléter
>La voix chante toujours à en râle-mourir
>Ces fées aux cheveux verts qui incantent l’été

>Very interesting, do you know when this was written?
1861, what does that tell us?

[Anonymous No.17606817]

>>17606756
long list, thank you i will take a look

[Anonymous No.17606918]

>>17604606
Norwid and Baudelaire

[Anonymous No.17606948]

>>17604606
Poetry is gay bro

[Anonymous No.17606984]

Leopardi.

[Anonymous No.17606989]

>>17606817
I also recommend you read Rudyard Kipling with those first couple of English poets, even though he was a 20th century poet. You can read his "The Legend of Mirth" right now, as it's a perfectly simple and short example of English poetry, being Iambic Pentameter:

http://www.kiplingsociety.co.uk/poems_mirth.htm

I also advise you to buy a book on poetry itself if you don't already have one, as it's just going to be pointlessly laborious without knowing the metres and principles of poetry. Good luck with it anon!

[Anonymous No.17607100]

>>17606812
>I think it’s fair to say that Apollinaire, who was probably the most modern poet of his times - at least in France, references Wagner several times.
In turn I admittedly don't know enough about French poets, and I knew practically nothing about Apollinaire before today. Could you tell me anything more about Nuits Rhenanes?

>1861, what does that tell us?
Which works of Wagner he had listened to, and what period he was speaking of. I wonder if Wagner performed any excerpts from his Ring before its first production.

[Anonymous No.17607155]

>>17604606
Homer

[Anonymous No.17608073]

>>17605262
This.

[Anonymous No.17608128]

>>17607100
>Could you tell me anything more about Nuits Rhenanes?
Nuits Rhénanes is only one poem, but one of his most famous one. Here it is:

>Mon verre est plein d’un vin trembleur comme une flamme
>Écoutez la chanson lente d’un batelier
>Qui raconte avoir vu sous la lune sept femmes
>Tordre leurs cheveux verts et longs jusqu’à leurs pieds

>Debout chantez plus haut en dansant une ronde
>Que je n’entende plus le chant du batelier
>Et mettez près de moi toutes les filles blondes
>Au regard immobile aux nattes repliées

>Le Rhin le Rhin est ivre où les vignes se mirent
>Tout l’or des nuits tombe en tremblant s’y refléter
>La voix chante toujours à en râle-mourir
>Ces fées aux cheveux verts qui incantent l’été

>Mon verre s’est brisé comme un éclat de rire

It is part of Apollinaire's most famous book and poetry collection: Alcools (Alcohols). It is famous, firstly because it's incredibly good, one of the best book of poetry I have ever read. Secondly because it fully embraces the modern world, the first poem (Zone) for instance uses a revolutionary imagery that uses technology as a symbol, the most famous one being the parallelism drawn between a plane and the Cross. As far as I know it is the first collection of Western poetry that fully takes modernity as something here that can be used poetically. Hence my remark about him being the most modern poet of his times, previous relevant poets saw modernity but always had an ambiguous relation to it. A very interesting thing about this book is also the fact that it is the first major collection of poetry to not use ponctuation at all, Apollinaire did not invent the idea but used it the first and is often credited for this innovation that allows the reader to see imagery where the poet did not think of it. In fact, all the poems of Alcools were written with punctuation, but Apollinaire decided to get ride of it and it's quite interesting to see that his poems reads without difficulty without it. If you cannot read French I'm sure there are interesting translations out there because he was very influential.
He was a very interesting man too. One of the very few artist (with Jünger) to be very enthusiastic about his experience in WWI, he has one poem for instance were he describes shells as shooting star and is sad because there could be more. He also wrote a lot of love letters in which he told Lou (his lover - with whom he was really passionate about) in some of which he describes the shells falling around him while he can only imagine taking her in doggy style. He was also the first to come with the term surrealist before it was ever a thing or Breton had made anything.
Truly a fascinating man and an excellent poet and writer.

[Anonymous No.17609062]

bump

[Anonymous No.17609082]

>Except anglos

[Anonymous No.17609088]

>>17608128
>Truly a fascinating man and an excellent poet and writer.
Completely appreciate the effort post anon, this was very enlightening about a figure I had barely even heard of yesterday.

[Anonymous No.17609094]

>"The sketch of Parsifal which Wagner read to us recently is filled and permeated with the essence of Christianity . . . I am willing to confess that most of our poets who are regarded as Christian-Catholic stand far behind Wagner in their religious sentiments."
- Franz Liszt

Why aren't you READING Wagner?

>Wein und Brot des letzten Mahles
>wandelt' einst der Herr des Grales
>durch des Mitleids Liebesmacht
>in das Blut, das er vergoss,
>in den Leib, den dar er bracht'.

>Blut und Leib der heil'gen Gabe
>wandelt heut zu eurer Labe
>sel'ger Tröstung Liebesgeist
>in den Wein, der euch nun floss,
>in das Brot, das heut ihr speist.

>Nehmet vom Briot,
>wandelt es kühn
>zu Leibes Kraft und Stärke;
>treu bis zum Tod;
>fest jedem Mühn,
>zu wirken des Heilands Werke!

>Nehmet vom Wein,
>wandelt ihn neu
>zu Lebens-feurigem Blute,

>froh im Verein,
>brudergetreu
>zu kämpfen mit seligem Mute!

>Selig im Galuben!
>Selig in Liebe!

>Selig im Liebe!

>Selig im Glauben!

https://youtu.be/dzeNnoMmsjM?t=5764
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y-xxhBia0s