/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17588270]

We’re fucked

[Anonymous No.17588343]

>>17588270
Unless people start reading books that are more than pessimistic ramblings about pop culture then yes, we are.

[Anonymous No.17588358]

>>17588270
Leftists who buy into depressive discourses and performatively try to position status quo as unbearable are fucked*

[Anonymous No.17588361]

Fisher's mortal error: we were never not fucked

[Anonymous No.17588367]

>>17588358
>Leftists
>discourses
> performative

[Anonymous No.17588376]

>>17588270
>AHHHHHH IS THAT?- BUREAUCRACY??? AHHHHH IM GOING INSANE STOOOPP OOOOHHHH AAAHHH

[Anonymous No.17588378]

Fisher BTFO

[Anonymous No.17588381]

>>17588270
>Definition of socialist realism: a Marxist aesthetic theory calling for the didactic use of literature, art, and music to develop social consciousness in an evolving socialist state
>Definition of capitalist realism: umm you know how pop-culture and commercials kind of suck and the mental healthcare is underfunded?

[Anonymous No.17588407]

Maybe if we watch movies and think really hard about the movies and maybe some a little weed, that's praxis? Professors need to tackle these hard problems in marxisms

[Anonymous No.17588410]

>>17588270
He's a fucking retarded neurotic and I can't fucking believe I spent time reading this shit. Fuck you /lit/ for shilling this shit

[Anonymous No.17588438]

My brother got into this guy and wouldn't shut up about him so I read some lit posts to him basically calling the book a rambling pamphlet and a footnote compared to the more substantial writings of Debord, Baudrillard. He countered by saying that Fisher is largely a cultural critic, and thus falls more neatly into his range of interests by drawing on movie references and such matter, and joked that his pea brain couldn't handle anything that didn't explain itself in terms of popular consumerist media. I was just quoting shit I saw on lit so I didn't have a proper response for him. Who was in the wrong here

[Anonymous No.17588452]

>>17588438
He wasn't wrong, this book is for people with mush brains who live in perpetual pop culture limbo.

[Anonymous No.17588460]

Liberals define freedom and happiness with an opulence of goods, an orgy of sense pleasures and they call this progress.

Okay, but since hedonists need bigger and bigger breakthrough to ease their life, they get depressed when those breakthroughs do not happen, like it has been the case since the 80s.
They freak out when there is a recession and they whine that progress stagnates.

For 2 centuries atheists could hype their human rights has progress and the right side of history, because human rights is just giving people more and more of an easy life.
However it is never enough.

[Anonymous No.17588468]

>>17588438
>Who was in the wrong here
>I was just quoting shit I saw on lit
do you really need to ask?

[Anonymous No.17588509]

>>17588367
I'm sorry baby, do these words make you scared?

[Anonymous No.17588511]

>>17588460
>However it is never enough.
You have to work to survive, why would present conditions ever be enough?

[Anonymous No.17588535]

>>17588460
>NOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST TRY TO IMPROVE THE MATERIAL CONDITIONS OF YOUR LIFE

[Anonymous No.17588563]

>>17588535
You forget to mention that such progress was/is at the cost of everything else that makes life worth living.

[Anonymous No.17588583]

>>17588563
You ever been to church bro? Shit is so boring you want to kill yourself right there

[Anonymous No.17588623]

>>17588583
>conflates religion with going to church
ngmi

[Anonymous No.17588763]

>>17588535
>>17588583
The myth of Progress is exactly that, a myth. Progressives have a flawed worldview that rests on the erroneous axiom that the past is bad, people in the past were bad and that we are on a perpetual upward spiral where everything gets better and better all the time. Hence why they don't question Progress, they embrace new tech, new social developments, essentially CHANGE wholeheartedly.
This is where things start to go wrong: not all change is good. The way change should take place is gradually, much like evolution. Some traditions are there for a reason, because they were good and useful. The traditions that are bad get discarded, while the ones that are good should be kept.
Progressives see all traditions as bad and embrace everything that is new, even when the new is objectively not good. Hence they don't question things like diversity despite the fact that that the multiculturalism experiment has failed.

[Anonymous No.17588864]

>>17588763
The neoliberalism experiment has failed and you’ve done nothing to question it.

[Anonymous No.17588869]

>>17588864
Most powerful and populous time in human history. Such failure

[Anonymous No.17588873]

>>17588763
Correct, but the seeds of that error lie in christianity/abrahamism which assert there is a beginning and an end to history, instead of the cyclical view of any other religion/metpahysics. The fact that history is working towards some great end lends itself perfectly to progressivism.

[Anonymous No.17588890]

>>17588864
Capitalist Realism is all about criticizing neoliberalism's failure to accommodate human psychological needs.

[Anonymous No.17588895]

>>17588270
define fucked

[Anonymous No.17588908]

There are a lot of people singing long and hard about how this is the end times and Western civilization is collapsing, but there isn't actually any proof of it and they don't seem to be able to point to any, either, except that they had to sit by a black person yesterday.

Grow up, please, please, grow up.

[Anonymous No.17588910]

>>17588890
Does he address the issue with materialism and the loss of spirituality?

[Anonymous No.17588921]

>>17588908
you can't post here if you're underage, go away

[Anonymous No.17588989]

>>17588908
Lifespans, IQs, marriage rates, home ownership and birthrates are dropping.
Debt and inflation is increasing with no signs of stopping.
You have to be willfully ignorant at this point to deny something is very, very wrong and we are own a downward trend.

[Anonymous No.17588992]

>>17588869
>humanity is a numbers game

[Anonymous No.17589051]

>>17588763
You have to ask yourself how much your fear colours your perceptions.

[Anonymous No.17589066]

>>17588992
they treat humans like cattle because they are bug-men.

[Anonymous No.17589077]

Leftism doesn't work.

Leftists are mentally deranged and should seek help asap.

[Anonymous No.17589080]

>>17589051
Fear? Fear of what?

[Anonymous No.17589089]

>>17588270
I've seen this posted so many times that it's like an ad in my mind, just subconsciously filtered out.

[Anonymous No.17589630]

>>17588361
>>17588378
my dudes

[Anonymous No.17589742]

>>17589080
You tell me. I can only infer that you HAVE fear. Of what, it makes no difference

[Anonymous No.17589770]

>>17588989
>Lifespans, IQs, marriage rates, home ownership and birthrates are dropping.

None of this is true. Lifespans are longer than they've ever been and home ownership is rebounding to pre-2008 levels. Get a clue.

[Anonymous No.17589831]

>>17588270
its semi ironic gallows dem brits are godly at

[Anonymous No.17589857]

>>17588270
I don't understand how anyone can take him seriously after reading the chapter where he bitches and moans about his boss not being depressed like he is. If you don't like capitalism, just stop being poor, it's never been easier

[Anonymous No.17589865]

>>17589770
Millennials are dying earlier than previous generations and millions of people are getting evicted from their homes right now.

[Anonymous No.17589902]

>>17588358
I'm about as hard right conservative as you can get, and this book is very good.

[Anonymous No.17589915]

>>17588895
Imagine a niggeress who makes exponentially more than you due to free market communism whining about how you oppress her, forever.

[Anonymous No.17589920]

>>17589770
>birthrates dropping is not true
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.DYN.TFRT.IN?

[Anonymous No.17589925]

>>17589915
These aren't the kinds of things you're supposed to hyperstition bro!

[Anonymous No.17589937]

>>17589770
Crime rates are soaring, birthrates are in fact dropping, divorce rates, though they have stopped accelerating, still have a very high velocity, and our military is filled with queers. This is a problem, because the US dollar's value is based entirely on the fact that we have 19 carrier groups around the world. You think that's gonna be threatening when all those sailors cut their dicks off and off themselves at a rate of 41%?

[Anonymous No.17589946]

>>17589920
>people don't want to have offspring

Tell me how this is bad. The world is overpopulated.

>>17589865
That's because Millennials do stupid things like have jobs that don't provide health insurance. It's their own fault, not society's.
As for evictions, please look up this shit before making dumb comments.

[Anonymous No.17589955]

>>17589915
>waa a black women makes more than me, Western civilization is OVER!

Grow up.

[Anonymous No.17589961]

>>17589955
Yes. You also forgot the second part. FAGGOT.

[Anonymous No.17589973]

>>17589902
well contemporary leftists and conservacucks are in the same boat I guess. All they do is seethe against status quo without any productive alternatives

[Anonymous No.17590080]

>>17589946
>Tell me how this is bad. The world is overpopulated.
You have moved the goal posts. I was simply disproving your false assertion.

[Anonymous No.17590515]

>>17589955
no you

[Anonymous No.17590537]

>>17590080
Well, no, because the original assertion is that the world is crumbling all around us because people don't want to breed. That's the gap you have to fill, and you cannot.

[Anonymous No.17590561]

>>17588869
>most populous time in human history
>this is supposed to be a good thing

Yikers! Of course, corporatists see the population number as nothing more than those to be marketed towards.

[Anonymous No.17590631]

>>17590537
Well, yes, I did in fact provide data that disproved the particular assertion of yours that I referenced. I don't have to fill any gaps about your original assertion as my only intention was to disprove a particular false assertion that you made with data I had prior knowledge of.

[Anonymous No.17590669]

Mark Fisher is one the greatest culture critics of of the last 30 years, fuck Nick Land

[Anonymous No.17592016]

>>17588270

[Anonymous No.17592129]

People act like we're in "late stage" capitalism but I think that's completely false. I'd say we're still in the very early stages of capitalism. I mean globalization has only just begun. All the dusty academics who predicted the fall of capitalism were wrong. Western "leftism" has become by and for the capitalist elite, eastern "leftism" has more in common with fascism than anything else. We've got nowhere to go but into the Globalist Capitalist Cyberpunk future, and it's going to be fucking cool.

[Anonymous No.17592178]

>>17592129
>cool
I think it will be quiet hot actually

[Anonymous No.17592219]

>>17588270
It is extremely easy to imagine alternatives to capitalism. I don’t understand why people think otherwise.

[Anonymous No.17592275]

>>17592219
Yeah, people can imagine all types of shit. I can imagine fucking wizards and dragons in some apocalyptic battle destroying the earth, but that doesn't make it at all practicable. People have been imagining alternatives to capitalism for nearly 200 years buddy. And "the CIA" isn't a valid reason why those ideas failed.

[Anonymous No.17592460]

>>17588343
fpbp, Fisher was a pseud

[Anonymous No.17592524]

>>17592016
Pretty fitting surname

[Anonymous No.17592639]

>>17588438

The book is like 100 pages. Why don't you just read it and form your own opinion?

[Anonymous No.17592757]

3rd position, neo-fascist, po-mo NatSoc resolves all Fisher's issues, he could never escape his Freudo-Marxist priors and understandably necked-himself

[Anonymous No.17592779]

>>17588343
Fpbp, Fisher was a kind soul but a retard too

[Anonymous No.17592791]

>>17592757
Unironically, the only conclusion to DeBord and Fischer is becoming a right winger.

[Anonymous No.17592801]

>>17588270
indeed brother

[Anonymous No.17592819]

>>17592016
Absolute slave morality. Disgusting

[Anonymous No.17593118]

>>17592791
not simply "rightwing", whatever that means anymore, but a higher dialectical plane synthesizing the left's economic pro-labor sentiment and id-pol (whites included) with the right's social conservatism (God excluded)

[Anonymous No.17593698]

>>17589946
>Millennials do stupid things like have jobs that don't provide health insurance.
hahahaha holy shit you're fucking stupid

[Anonymous No.17593705]

>>17593698
or baiting

[Anonymous No.17593715]

>>17593698
How is he wrong?

[Anonymous No.17593791]

>>17592819
Literally the oposite of slave morality,

[Anonymous No.17593866]

I still haven't seen anyone on /lit/ refute him

[Anonymous No.17594375]

He makes a good point about the decline in truly new culture, how the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and early 90s had their own unique musical Zeitgeists with a recognisable counterculture. Now that counterculture is getting people fired for tweets and the superhero films are like the superhero films from twenty years ago it's like a stasis of cultural expression

[Anonymous No.17595270]

>>17592016
lol you really quoted maoist rebel news?

[Anonymous No.17595278]

>>17594375
Who cares about muh pop culture all the good shit from those decades was not well known

[Anonymous No.17595289]

>>17595278
we need to know what the hoes listen to

[Anonymous No.17595313]

>>17588270
we're only fucked if we consent to it.

[Anonymous No.17595355]

>>17588270
I believe that one day a new system will form out of capitalism the same way capitalism formed out of feudalism a millennia ago. It won't be socialism, rather something we are not even aware of right now. Perhaps a system based on technology and AI.

[Anonymous No.17595734]

>>17595313
i prefer capitalism to socialism because i'd be fucked either way by the government but at least in capitalism i have a chance to make some money or gain some financial independence. just make smart decisions with your investments and work hard for a few years and you can make it

[Anonymous No.17595756]

>>17595734
nazis and commies fear the neoliberal chad
feels good to be the king

[Anonymous No.17595780]

>>17588989
And what were you expecting? Post second world war was the peak of wester civilization it is just natural that from here things will only go down, but decline isn't collapse, not yet I think, just accept you were born in the wrong generation.

[Anonymous No.17595790]

>>17595780
The problems could be mitigated if we moved towards policy similar to the Keynesian/social democratic post war consensus or New Deal esque that aided in the post war boom

[Anonymous No.17595804]

>>17595756
Just admit you're Jewish

[Anonymous No.17595819]

>>17595804
nope. you sound like an anti semitic butthurt redneck who is upset because he is too dumb and unskilled to make money or invest properly.

[Anonymous No.17595833]

>>17595780
>Post second world war was the peak of wester civilization
That would be La Belle Époque.

[Anonymous No.17595882]

>wahh arctic monkeys sounds like an 80s rock band and this proves that capital is a Lovecraftian entity responsible for my depression

[Anonymous No.17595908]

>>17588438
>who was in the wrong here
Can you not be a bad fucking brother

[Anonymous No.17595920]

>>17588452
If you can't read past the examples to understand what's actually being said, you're the mushbrain.
Nobody says DFW or Pynchon are shallow for relying on pop culture to express themselves.

[Anonymous No.17595929]

>>17588270
I got fooled into reading this because I asked /lit/ for books that talk about the theory of electronic music. Nowhere in this book does he mention electronic music. If the dude who lied to me is in this thread, fuck yourself.

[Anonymous No.17595945]

>>17595920
>popular means bad
That’s how far into their own assess they are

[Anonymous No.17595972]

>>17589937
Crime rates are not soaring.

[Anonymous No.17595990]

>>17595972
Shh, don't disillusion him.

[Anonymous No.17596864]

>>17595929
You probably want to read his other book, Ghosts of my Life

[Anonymous No.17597943]

>>17595920
Retard, I understand what's being said. I just don't need it dumbed down with pop culture references. The message would have been just as clear without them, probably even more so. Are there people who need pop culture references to understand what's being said? Sure, this book is for them, but that's pretty sad.
>Nobody says DFW or Pynchon are shallow for relying on pop culture to express themselves.
Yes they do and they have a point, although it's not as bad as Fisher if you ask me because of the difference between fiction and non fiction.
>>17595945
In some way yes, actually. The more popular something is, the greater the chance it's been dumbed down so more people can understand it. Most people are not that bright. Lowest common denominator.

[Anonymous No.17598250]

We dont have 'capitalism'. We dont have the free market. State controls on nearly all economic activity exist to some extent in all countries.

People blame capitalism for all their problems and run to big daddy government for help... without realising both now and now and always, government is the problem. not just 'the' government, or any government, but government.

>Everyone wants to live at the expense of the state. They forget that the state wants to live at the expense of everyone.

[Anonymous No.17598314]

>capitalist - socialist dichotomy
>left - right dichotomy
>progressive - reactionary dichotomy
can we just stop these memes, there is only one dichotomy that is eternal and true and that is
>competent - incompetent dichotomy

[Anonymous No.17598455]

>>17595270
At least he didn't quote Caleb 'Socialist Billionaires' Maupin. Unruhe is a joke too though.

[Anonymous No.17598466]

>>17598250
You can buy crypto and pay for whatever you want on the dark net. Someone will always try to get in your way no matter what.

[Anonymous No.17598470]

>>17589902
You haven't realized that the rise of right-wing populism refutes this book? There is a real momentum against the status quo at the moment, perhaps the biggest since the second world war.

[Anonymous No.17598497]

>>17598250
We do have capitalism though, it's just heavily distorted, and working out which effects are due to the market and which are due to the distortions can be difficult.

[Anonymous No.17598612]

>>17598250
free markets and capitalism are completely different things and have been conceptualised as such as long as the terms have existed, it is entirely possible and quite literally the norm to have the latter and not the former

[Anonymous No.17598646]

>>17598612
The 'free market' is a summary term that refers to the array of voluntary exchanges that take place between people for various goods and services, and a free market is where these conditions are generally unhampered by government intervention.

Capitalism is an economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.

You cannot have one without the other. they are interchangeable. you or whatever literature you have consumed has simply changed the meaning of one of the terms.

>>17598612
>it is entirely possible and quite literally the norm to have the latter and not the former

so this is absolute nonsense.

[Anonymous No.17598680]

>>17598646
>you or whatever literature you have consumed has simply changed the meaning of one of the terms.
you've done the exact same thing, so this is going nowhere

[Anonymous No.17598722]

>>17598680
i've shared with you the literal definition of free market and capitalism, i cant quite see how you can come up with any logical refutation but im willing to listen

[Anonymous No.17598771]

>One of the oddities about Hegelian philosophies of history is that, having set up this repeating process, their proponents almost always insist that it’s about to stop forever. In the full development of the Marxist theory of history, for example, the alternation of thesis-antithesis-synthesis starts with the primordial state of primitive communism and then chugs merrily, or rather far from merrily, through a whole series of economic systems, until finally true communism appears—and then that’s it; it’s the synthesis that never becomes a thesis and never conjures up an antithesis. In exactly the same way, Fukuyama’s theory of the end of history argued that all history until 1991 or so was a competition between different systems of political economy, of which liberal democratic capitalism and totalitarian Marxism were the last two contenders; capitalism won, Marxism lost, game over.

>Now of course that’s part of the reason that Hegelianism so reliably generates false predictions, because in the real world it’s never game over; there’s always another round to play. There’s another dimension of Hegelian mistakenness, though, because the rhythm of the dialectic implies that the gains of one synthesis are never lost. Each synthesis becomes the basis for the next struggle between thesis and antithesis out of which a new synthesis emerges—and the new synthesis is always supposed to embody the best parts of the old.

>Given the track record of Hegelian thought when it comes to history, a flipped coin is a better guide—use a coin, and you have a 50% better chance of being right. Outside of mainstream macroeconomic theory, it’s hard to think of a branch of modern thought that so consistently turns out false answers once it’s applied to the real world.

thearchdruidreport.blogspot.com/2016/12/the-fifth-side-of-triangle.html

[Anonymous No.17598822]

>>17588270
Thinking in terms of ''capitalism'' is a Humanist trick to stop people from seeing it is Humanism which is the prevailing paradigm and the cradle of capitalism. There is no capitalism without Humanism. And the dream of the leftists with their ''''''''''''social democracy'''''''is just a despair of having humanism without capitalism.


>Was "classical liberalism" ever a real thing?
no
it was mercantilism, which is the economy part of classical liberalism adapted to nationalism.

classical liberalism is the fantasy of libertarianism today.

-a strong parliamentary republic/state within a tiny scope

-a strong faith of ''''''''competition''''''''''

-a strong faith that competition makes people better

-a strong faith that '''''''''free markets'''''''''''' regulated by the tiny superstrong public servants , to break any burgeoning monopoles

-a strong faith that competition (about material things and about ''''''ideas''''''''') brings appeasement of the '''''''bad'''''''human nature

-a strong faith that once people are educated to libertarianism, throughout the federal/national instruction ( not mandatory to attend public school, but it is mandatory to teach children how good libertarianism is , meaning how good it is to embrace the liberal rationalism of the human rights)

-a strong faith that ''''''''''''rationality'''''''''''' , as liberals define it, is the pinnacle of the human life, with the liberal uber man as ''''''''''the free thinker'''''''''''' (but materially depending on others)

-a strong faith that truth is associated to this normative liberal reason

-a strong faith that only the liberal republic can bring this to the ''''''''nice people'''''''''', who is always right therefore it is cogent to ask the ''''''''''''educated people'''''''' to vote once every few years

-a strong faith that ''''''democracy perhaps is a failure, but any other form of society is worse LOL''''''

[Anonymous No.17598860]

>>17588989
You only care about shit like that because you're an autist who spends too much time on social media

[Anonymous No.17599532]

yes

[Anonymous No.17599574]

yeah dood. everything now has to do with 'archiving'. some kind of kinda culture death

[Anonymous No.17599593]

>>17588270
>guys, i guess there really is no alternative to capitalism and communism doesn't work in the end..
i guess that's a landmark discovery in the marxist circles but in literally everywhere else that's been known since forever LMAO

[Anonymous No.17600066]

culture still exists, youre just a boomer