/lit/ I want to reach a higher consciousness, how do I achieve this?

File: 30 KB, 320x442, plato4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Anonymous Mon May 9 04:03:19 2011 No.1757756 [Reply] [Original]

/lit/ I want to reach a higher consciousness, how do I achieve this?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 04:09:19 2011 No.1757762 smoke weed every day

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 04:10:19 2011 No.1757768 >>1757762 >>1757762 >>1757762 >>1757762 >>1757762 >>1757762 >>1757762 wisdom.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 04:12:19 2011 No.1757772 Yes of course george washington, bur really, how do I go about expanding this wisdom into a higher consciousness? Which book should I start reading? Phylosophy, physics? All I know is that I know nothing.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 04:12:19 2011 No.1757773 >>1757762 Agreed. For the past 2 or 3 weeks I've been smoking everyday, I like to workout, read, and ponder after smoking, and I must say it's helped me find some very creative (working) solutions to several of my problems.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 04:13:19 2011 No.1757774 >>1757772 Knowledge - Operation Ivy The last line of that post reminded me of that.

Anonymous Mon May 9 04:18:19 2011 No.1757789

First time hearing that song, pretty I'd say.

but /lit/ in all seriousness, what is a good starting point to start breaking out of this every day life. I don't even know what to call it. Always worrying about problems and forgetting to actually seek out a truth. Help me out /lit/

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 04:18:19 2011 No.1757792 You could stand on a chair.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 04:24:19 2011 No.1757801 >>1757789 you're asking the question that I suspect alot of /lit/ users haven't figured out yet

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 04:29:19 2011 No.1757812 /lit/ Darnit, this is depressing. Is it best to just start reading about philosophers and go from there? Is there anything else that will elevate my understanding of everything?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 04:30:19 2011 No.1757815 There isn't some kind of method to understand everything, that's a dumb idea. Read enough philosophy until you realize how dumb of an idea that is, then stop reading philosophy.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 04:33:19 2011 No.1757819 >>1757815 then what sir? Yes, I know, wanted to sound dramatic with the question. Don't judge me, I only seek a beginning to an endless amount of info.

Anonymous Mon May 9 04:34:19 2011 No.1757821

>>1757812
I think you're trying to have an epiphany. Is that so?

You don't have to just read philosophers to elevate your understanding of everything.

Read literature, history, and science. Strive to understand and have healthy curiosity of your surrounding. And then you will start to understand.

Suggested books: Ishmael, Guns Germs and Steel, Collapse, Selfish Gene.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 04:38:19 2011 No.1757826 File: 57 KB, 640x480, DO IT FAGGOT2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_suicide

Anonymous Mon May 9 04:39:19 2011 No.1757829

>>1757821

Hmm, i don't know. I wanna say I had the epiphany that I'm living an in the moment life without deeper thinking or awareness. I don't I suppose I am. Today my friend came and he started speaking of different things, which he made much more complex than they had to be imoho, I understood them all, but when he asked me a question I didn't have an exact answer and I felt stupid. I came home and I realized I haven't really done any deeper knowledge seeking because I've grown used to just living by the day. I don't know how to put it into words really. Just living and stressing and worrying about useless things, but not thinking outside the box into more complex thoughts. It's bothering me beyond belief.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 04:42:19 2011 No.1757831 >>1757829 Gotcha. What sort of stuff are you interested in? Your friend was probably talking about stuff that he's really interested in and therefore, did more reading on 'em.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 04:45:19 2011 No.1757834 >>1757756 Fool yourself into believing you have reached a higher consciousness.

Anonymous Mon May 9 04:47:19 2011 No.1757836

>>1757831

Yea, he spoke of philosphers like friedrich nietzsche, marcus aurelius, ralph waldo emerson, and someone else. He also recommended I'd watch Collapse the documentary?

I'm interested in achieving a higher state of consciousness, being at peace with myself, aware of my surroundings and analyzing people. I've never touched philosophy before, other than at school, but thats the usual plato, socrates, etc.. not actually looking into different philosophers.

Anonymous Mon May 9 04:50:19 2011 No.1757842

>>1757834

Not hard to do, but I rather feel genuine about it, even if it's not as extensive as others.

Man, I guess I just got tired of just being simple and just another product of an everyday life in this society we live in. Not trying to single myself out and be all like "im special herp derp", but I just feel dumb man.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 04:53:19 2011 No.1757845 >>1757836 Meh. Just read different stuff and figure out what interests you. Then read more of those stuff. No need to force yourself to read philosophy- unless you turn out to like 'em.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 05:15:19 2011 No.1757866 File: 156 KB, 767x1092, ancient.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Mescaline! And, uh, William Blake.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 07:42:19 2011 No.1757955 >>1757756 shut up conor

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 07:48:19 2011 No.1757962 stop fucking going to /lit/, for one this place will fucking degrade you to the point you're using a trip and your own little vocabulary of parodic cliches a dogs faite

"Higher Consciousness" Anonymous Mon May 9 07:59:19 2011 No.1757975

Yo OP

somethings that if you really ponder, should stir your thoughts:
Marcus Aurelius - Meditations
Dan Millerman - Way of the Peaceful Warrior + The Journeys of Socrates
Lao Tzu - Tao Te Ching (only 81 verses, yet translated the most second only to the bible, Wayne Dyer does a series on it called "Change your thoughts - Change your life")
Frank Herbert - Dune series (first 3 atleast)
Orson Scott Card - Ender's game

Read Quotes. LOTS of Quotes. and wonder what they mean. look for how they apply. the Tao te ching is very very quotable, so its a great coherent collection of thought provoking ideas.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 08:01:19 2011 No.1757978 >>1757975 also, watch this film, the book is more dense with wisdom/ideas/etc, but the movie is a nice start --> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0438315/

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 08:45:19 2011 No.1758005 read bertrand russell - a history of western philosophy, still the best intro around

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 08:45:19 2011 No.1758006 File: 61 KB, 343x600, leonora-carrington_lepidoptera_xl.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Surrealism and Jung.

Anonymous Mon May 9 08:50:19 2011 No.1758009

Right now you think you want to know, but once you know you'll often wish you didn't. I've hurdled every mental obstacle that ugly and intelligent boys think they need to hurdle. I've carefully avoided every pitfall, climbed every mountain with impeccable technique. I perfected objective thought. I dismantled every defense mechanism in myself and others. I saw the universe clearly. My mind is so vastly far beyond. I don't mean to paint myself as a cold intellectual machine, I am acutely in touch with all aspects of myself, artistic and emotional included.

From this remote land I can tell you, there is nothing here. I thought I was moving myself towards something, but I was only moving away from people. The higher you elevate yourself, the more isolated you become. Not only through bitterness towards people more ignorant then you, but because a disconnect occurs. You just can't relate to them anymore. My bitterness faded long ago, I accepted people for every beautiful and wonderful and disgusting thing they are. But there is no way they could reciprocate. My frustration at this eventually faded too, and was replaced by boredom. People are just boring, they're generic and boring. No action offends me. No words stir me. Even at their most extreme people are really just not that complicated.

Anonymous Mon May 9 08:51:19 2011 No.1758011

>>1758009
The thing is, you just feel like you need to be special somehow to have value. That's not an insult, please don't take it like one. Value has become a rare commodity, allocated based on ability. You just don't inherently value yourself and you're looking for something to make you feel valuable. You don't need a higher consciousness. Think of it, you are one of an extremely rare and valuable breed. You are perhaps the most valuable thing that has ever been created in the history of the universe. Is that not value enough?

I'm rambling sorry. Just, throw your worries away. You don't need to be anything more then you are, no matter what anyone tells you. And they'll all tell you what you need to be to have value. They will tell you over and over again, they have been since you were born. And if you refuse to believe them they may laugh in your face and deride you. But they are just unaware how valuable they are. Go out, hug your mom. Meet someone new. Tell them how you feel. Be sincere. It's all there is to life. There is literally nothing more.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 08:53:19 2011 No.1758012 >>1758009 Didn't know Dr.Manhatten posted here. If this guy did what he claimed to do, he took the wrong road. a fulfilled human is one completely in tune with his social nature, not someone who has killed it through pride or "knowledge".

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 08:55:19 2011 No.1758013 >>1758011 >there is nothing more to life I almost agree, but then psilocybin and communication with higher beings.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 08:56:19 2011 No.1758014 >>1758012 Yes! You are right! Social activities are the only ones that can fulfill a person. Nothing else will do it. Not books or video games or music or pornography or jerking off or cheeseburgers or being the smartest idiot on the planet.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 09:01:19 2011 No.1758020 >>1758014 you have an AIM screen name Dr. Manhattan? you seem interesting. also, OP, if you do, post it.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 10:45:19 2011 No.1758129 "Higher" consciousness? more aware of detail? less concerned with the eating, shitting and killing of mundane life? you want to wear a white robe and sit in a temple on top of a mountain, sniffing the roses? good luck with that

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 11:02:19 2011 No.1758160 The Perennial Philosophy by Aldous Huxley. Good writing on various spiritual codes and religions and the underlying unification of them all.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 11:21:19 2011 No.1758201 Has anyone said something drug-related yet?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 11:27:19 2011 No.1758211 meditate.

>>	Truman Capote !!cO9KVBDtkqQ Mon May 9 11:33:19 2011 No.1758230 File: 16 KB, 323x293, gaben.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Don't listen to any of this quasi-mystical bullshit, OP. Read some Camus.

>>	satan !OW9DVqIqy6 Mon May 9 11:37:19 2011 No.1758241 LSD 25 or you can sit still until you depress your breathing and force yourself into a "high" commonly mistaken for mysticism...its all a matter of how good you are at lying to yourself

Anonymous Mon May 9 11:41:39 2011 No.1758247 [DELETED]

>>1758241
>or you can sit still until you depress your breathing and force yourself into a "high" commonly mistaken for mysticism
what mysticism would that be? if you're talking about meditation then you're off. breathing is only used as a signpost to focus your attention on but it by no means has to be. you don't even have to be sitting still to meditate.

Anonymous Mon May 9 11:44:19 2011 No.1758253

>>1758241
>or you can sit still until you depress your breathing and force yourself into a "high" commonly mistaken for mysticism
what mysticism would that be? if you're talking about meditation then you're off. breathing is only used as a signpost to focus your attention on but it by no means has to be. you don't even have to be sitting still to meditate.
the "high" you are talking about is not the goal of meditation either, although you can use that as another point of focus. the goal of meditation is to improve your ability to focus and increase the awareness of whatever it is your focusing on.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 11:58:19 2011 No.1758269 Island, by Aldous Huxley.

Anonymous Mon May 9 12:07:19 2011 No.1758281

thought i already replied....hmm.

>>1758230
>Don't listen to any of this quasi-mystical bullshit, OP.
i made a comment about how we think we can disregard a whole field of ideas, when we think we can sum it up in some one-liner. i don't like this. i think mysticism carries a lot of truths. i think many things are inherently paradoxical.

>>1757762
best answer itt

Anonymous Mon May 9 12:13:19 2011 No.1758292

>>1757756
Hmm, I would start by avoiding thinking in terms of hierarchies and gross abstractions.

Asking the classic; who, what, where, when..., will get you far; or just the simple "what do I mean by that." When you think "higher," ask higher then what? When you want "consciousness," ask what the hell is it.

>>	satan !OW9DVqIqy6 Mon May 9 12:13:19 2011 No.1758294 >>1758253 said the delusional hippie

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 12:16:19 2011 No.1758302 >>1758294 wow. great point. i'm only joking. it's obvious that you're stupid.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 12:17:19 2011 No.1758304 What is a higher consciousness?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 12:20:19 2011 No.1758313 File: 47 KB, 400x447, 1297795800273.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1758304 being smarter.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 12:20:19 2011 No.1758314 >>1758294 Wouldn't the person advocating the psychedelic drug use be the more obvious hippie?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 12:20:19 2011 No.1758315 >>1758302 It also works for writing, if trying to break out of jargon or ridiculous literary prose. The question, "What do I mean by that?" and the adage "Nobody really needs this shit," will get you as far as you need to go.

>>	satan !OW9DVqIqy6 Mon May 9 12:23:19 2011 No.1758319 >>1758302 I don't owe you a fucking point. I have no urge to liberate you of your...cultural confusion

>>	satan !OW9DVqIqy6 Mon May 9 12:24:19 2011 No.1758320 >>1758314 not at all...when I take acid, I go to black metal shows and beat up homeless people

Anonymous Mon May 9 12:28:19 2011 No.1758328

>>1758319
see
>>1758281
>i made a comment about how we think we can disregard a whole field of ideas, when we think we can sum it up in some one-liner.

you think you can call someone a name and it automatically dismisses their ideas? and you think you're being the smart one here? how old are you? twelve?

Anonymous Mon May 9 12:34:19 2011 No.1758332
File: 71 KB, 640x480, 1249202378753.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1758241
Nothing you experience takes place outside of your own nervous system. The point of meditation and other such "mystical" experiences isnt some of great contact with God, but to fine tune your own mind.

Thats the key OP. To always remember that this is all in your mind. Im not a sophistic, I know there is an objective reality out there somewhere and that I in some way am a part of it. But I can never experience it without first filtering it through my own mind(and thus distorting it).
>>1758009
Thats what this guy did wrong. He thought he was going to find something outside of himself by changing himself. Brain change is not an end within itself, its a tool to help you live life to the fullest.

Its a way of hacking your own nervous system and reprogramming it. You OP are programed. Programed in ways you cant even imagine. Your culture, your parents, your media all of these things have been brainwashing you since the day you were born.

The easiest way to be brainwashed is to be born. Everyone is brainwashed, even me. The key is to get to the point where you are brainwashing YOURSELF.
tl;dr Get Money. Smoke Trees. Fuck Bitches.

>>	satan !OW9DVqIqy6 Mon May 9 12:37:19 2011 No.1758338 >>1758328 As I said, I don't give a fuck enough to pull you out of your delusions...calling you retarded will suffice.

Truman Capote !!cO9KVBDtkqQ Mon May 9 12:42:19 2011 No.1758344
File: 29 KB, 499x366, jesus_san.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1758281

I don't need to be an expert in unicornology to dismiss the existence of unicorns.

You can believe anything you want, but anyone with a brain will disregard your Jungian babblings without the evidence that such claims demand.

>>1758332

I've tried this kind of meditation before but it just seemed silly to me. I think it's another example of the exploitation of the placebo effect.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 12:48:19 2011 No.1758348 >>1758344 >I've tried this kind of meditation before but it just seemed silly to me. I think it's another example of the exploitation of the placebo effect. Elaborate

>>	scout !!1wBNr3mLJL+ Mon May 9 12:53:19 2011 No.1758351 Why not a lower consciousness?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 12:54:19 2011 No.1758353 the better you understand yourself, the better you understand what you're apart of

Anonymous Mon May 9 13:00:19 2011 No.1758364

>>1758344
>I don't need to be an expert in unicornology to dismiss the existence of unicorns.

again you do it. comparing unicorns to mysticism. anything purely intellectual can be considered quixotic by anyone else. there are tons of books written on eastern philosophy, and you can take courses on it on college. but you like to play extremes to make points. i'm not interested in you jerking off.

>>1758338
i'd be worried if i took you seriously.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 13:06:19 2011 No.1758370 File: 46 KB, 459x599, 459px-sign_language_l-svg.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 13:06:19 2011 No.1758372 File: 19 KB, 341x341, s.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 13:07:19 2011 No.1758375 File: 90 KB, 494x500, d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	sage Mon May 9 13:08:19 2011 No.1758376 File: 7 KB, 177x211, sign language.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1758370

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 13:11:19 2011 No.1758383 >>1758364 Ok, fairies then.

scout !!1wBNr3mLJL+ Mon May 9 13:14:19 2011 No.1758389

Doing LSD and other psychedelics give you a temporary clarity and engagement--it wears off. The long ascetic journey of heroin addiction is more complete, but with a much higher cost. Drugs might be the answer if there was no risk of being thrown into prison for them.

>>	sage Mon May 9 13:15:19 2011 No.1758391 File: 10 KB, 303x276, bill cosby.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1758383

Truman Capote !!cO9KVBDtkqQ Mon May 9 13:23:19 2011 No.1758400
File: 212 KB, 425x415, jesusapproves.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1758348

We had to do meditation routinely in my high school.

II think any beneficial effects you feel from meditation come purely from your belief (and desire) that the meditation to work, thus you enter an imagined state of heightened sensory experience where things seem easier or you appear to process thoughts faster.

In reality these newfound abilities were there in the first place, but your imposed self-delusion has merely allowed your mind to access/appreciate them. Once you realise that it is not the meditation that is helping you but in fact your belief that it will you will suddenly become immune to it's effects.

But I think this meditation is a very seductive thing, which is probably why it works so well. In this modern life, reflective detachment from mad dance of modernity and capitalism is something many people crave and probably helps them deal with the exhaustive pace of technological, economic and pop-cultural progression.

But there is a different way to access a more permanent state of higher thinking while preserving your intellectual integrity, and that is through the greatly rewarding -and not nearly as difficult as people assume- reading of philosophical literature.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 13:24:19 2011 No.1758405 >>1758389 Your post contains three (3) sentences. Each one is a) stupid and b) false.

>>	Truman Capote !!cO9KVBDtkqQ Mon May 9 13:25:19 2011 No.1758406 File: 43 KB, 259x282, gaben2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1758364 There are tons of books written on astrology, and you can take courses on it on college. Intricate nonsense is still nonsense.

satan !OW9DVqIqy6 Mon May 9 13:25:19 2011 No.1758407

>>1758364

there are tons of books on alchemy, astrology, cryptozoology and whatever the fuck other fairy-tale subject you can want.

their existence does not warrant truth though.

eastern philosophy is nothing but product of idle retards with excessive amounts of dopamine in their brain...

It's been proven that Asians with 'holistic dispositions' lack the necessary intuitions needed for most truth-preserving cognitive mechanisms...ask some buddhist about a standard Gettier case...and he'll tell you Smith has knowledge.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 13:26:19 2011 No.1758411 File: 8 KB, 183x176, dude_what..jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1758406 >>1758407 astrologymind

>>	scout !!1wBNr3mLJL+ Mon May 9 13:27:19 2011 No.1758412 >>1758405 Why would I care if you disagree with what I've said, since you don't seem capable of explaining why.

sage Mon May 9 13:28:19 2011 No.1758413
File: 38 KB, 407x521, lold.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1758400
>But there is a different way to access a more permanent state of higher thinking while preserving your intellectual integrity, and that is through the greatly rewarding -and not nearly as difficult as people assume- reading of philosophical literature.

did you just make this up? it sounds fancy. everybody likes a good story, bruh.

>>1758405
anon was probably trolling.

>>	scout !!1wBNr3mLJL+ Mon May 9 13:29:19 2011 No.1758415 >>1758407 Yeah we should do away with everything that doesn't conform to the most rigid and formal logic!

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 13:30:19 2011 No.1758417 Read Kant on LSD

sage Mon May 9 13:31:19 2011 No.1758418
File: 245 KB, 3750x3750, evil babby.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1758407
>philosophy is nothing but product of idle retards with excessive amounts of dopamine in their brain...

i took out eastern and fixed it for you, duder. now we can agree.

>>1758406
>Intricate nonsense is still nonsense.
you and i can agree too. see above in this very post.

>>	Truman Capote !!cO9KVBDtkqQ Mon May 9 13:31:19 2011 No.1758419 >>1758415 You mean everything that disregards rationality and the scientific method? Yes, you're absolutely right.

>>	scout !!1wBNr3mLJL+ Mon May 9 13:34:19 2011 No.1758423 >>1758419 Oh wow, it's really like the late 19th century! Why don't you get off of /lit/ then? Oh btw the black horde of irrationality will always master the effete scientific spirit.

>>	sage Mon May 9 13:34:19 2011 No.1758424 >>1758419 >You mean everything that disregards rationality and the scientific method? are paradoxes not rational? that's what i enjoy about eastern ideology.

>>	satan !OW9DVqIqy6 Mon May 9 13:36:19 2011 No.1758426 >>1758419 fuck it bro...no sense in arguing with idiots...they won't be convinced

>>	sage Mon May 9 13:37:19 2011 No.1758429 >>1758426 again with your name calling. do you have many friends with different opinions? i wouldn't think so but i don't know you irl.

Truman Capote !!cO9KVBDtkqQ Mon May 9 13:38:19 2011 No.1758431
File: 38 KB, 720x540, niggaugay.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>1758423

Literature is about showing the truth and communicating it in a way that people can understand on an emotional and intellectual level.

'On The Origin of Species' can be considered a work of literature.

Literature is not the kind of nonsense escapism you advocate.

You should leave /lit/.

>>	Truman Capote !!cO9KVBDtkqQ Mon May 9 13:40:19 2011 No.1758435 File: 15 KB, 361x348, ginsberg_and_zizek.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1758426 You said it, mang.

>>	sage Mon May 9 13:40:19 2011 No.1758438 File: 11 KB, 200x155, 1293712856210.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1758431 >Literature is not the kind of nonsense escapism you advocate.

Anonymous Mon May 9 13:42:08 2011 No.1758446 [DELETED]

>>1758400
If you go into meditation with the goal of experiencing beneficial effects, be that a trance like state or a feeling of lightness, or increased memory, when you experience that you will soon get wrapped up in the side effects and come to the conclusion that the practice itself is illusory and not your mental cravings. as soon as this place the ego has taken over again in a much more subtle way, in other words the conscious observation you were practicing to reach the point of mental clarity to experience these intensely positive states has dropped back to the sub conscious and you are running on old thought patterns. the trick is to just observe when you're experiencing these intense states, not get wrapped up in them or think that that state or any state is the goal. the only goal is still observation. you watch a billion mile per second neon flip show in your mind screen with the same detached awareness as you do the breath.

scout !!1wBNr3mLJL+ Mon May 9 13:42:19 2011 No.1758440

>>1758431
>Emotional
>Rational
Reconcile them elegantly, or else pick one. You can't do the first, and you won't do the second. You can't even account for anomalies. What you're advocating is boring, and this is why you represent a small, self-aggrandizing group which hopefully will become the target of new witch burnings. What has science ever done for anyone? Nah bro, on the origin of species is just a theory. Bergson had an evolutionary theory too, Bergson was an enemy of "Rational" thought.

Anonymous Mon May 9 14:01:19 2011 No.1758490

>>1758407
>>1758400
If you go into meditation with the goal of experiencing beneficial effects, be that a trance like state or a feeling of lightness, or increased memory, when you experience that you will soon get wrapped up in the side effects and come to the conclusion that the practice itself is illusory and not your mental cravings. as soon as this place the ego has taken over again in a much more subtle way, in other words the conscious observation you were practicing to reach the point of mental clarity to experience these intensely positive states has dropped back to the sub conscious and you are running on old thought patterns.
the trick is to just observe when you're experiencing these intense states, not get wrapped up in them or think that that state or any state is the goal. the only goal is still observation. you watch a billion mile per second neon flip show in your mind screen with the same detached awareness as you do the breath.

Anonymous Mon May 9 14:16:19 2011 No.1758520

>>1758400
>>1758400
>In reality these newfound abilities were there in the first place, but your imposed self-delusion has merely allowed your mind to access/appreciate them

Exactly. Minus the delusion part. The point is that its all taking place in your mind and that you have total control over your mind.

Plus, Im not just advocating meditation alone. There are other things.

>But there is a different way to access a more permanent state of higher thinking while preserving your intellectual integrity, and that is through the greatly rewarding -and not nearly as difficult as people assume- reading of philosophical literature

Am I being trolled?

You do know there is a wealth of data studying the brains of people meditating right? And that its not just a placebo effect. You also know that plenty of people who have read philisophical literature im sure have been studied and have shown no such-

Yeah im being trolled 8/10

Anonymous Mon May 9 14:17:19 2011 No.1758522

Basically what >>1758490 is saying is that you can't replicate the side-effects of mediation by meditating for the side-effects. You're no longer meditating in the way that generated these effects. You're doing something (slightly) different. It's analogous to wanting the side-effects of a particular medication made up of, let's say, 3 ingredients. You take a medication with 2 of those ingredients. This missing ingredient, in this case, is the sincere spiritual element of meditation. TL;DR If you don't believe what the people who were studied believed, you shouldn't expect the features the people studied were found to have as a consequence of the belief.

Anonymous Mon May 9 14:19:19 2011 No.1758525

>>1758522
HOWEVER, I don't know if this is necessarily true. It seems like a sensible argument to me but I haven't read the studies. The question to ask is: have non-monks been shown to experience the same effects? What are the features of these people? Are they also sincerely spiritual in this way?

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 14:22:19 2011 No.1758528 >>1758525 http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course_details_new.php?seriesid=2010-D-73977&semesterid=2010-D Here's a free Berkley course I just searched up for you. Saging politely because I've posted three times.

Anonymous Mon May 9 14:26:19 2011 No.1758537

>>1758490
to expound on this
for example if on a given meditation session you focus your attention on the feel of the physical body you can experience an intensely alive vibration field in your skin, it almost feels like every cell is reciprocating your attention, when you can do this your brain will become joyous, and then can quickly become covetous because it doesn't want to lose the increased awareness, and then the process starts all over again. when you lose the sensation due to your desire to hold on to it, you turn the feeling into a mental object, it becomes another attractive woman or pizza or whatever. you then experience dissapointment when it's gone.
that is the ego.
if instead you observe the desire to stay happy and alert instead of "being" happy and alert, that is the true way of meditating. the difference is subtle but is the only choice, that of either experiencing the happiness or identifying with it. neither are necessarily bad, it's just that when you identify with objects of either a physical or mental nature you strengthen the ego, which is a mental mechanism, something that can be observed and therefore not the ultimate truth of who you are. it's fine when what you're experiencing is pleasurable, but as long as you identify it you will experience suffering on a much greater scale when faced with death or any unpleasant occurrence.

Truman Capote !!cO9KVBDtkqQ Mon May 9 14:27:19 2011 No.1758541

>>1758520

>The point is that its all taking place in your mind and that you have total control over your mind.

Then why call it mystical?

And maybe not all approaches to meditation are based on placebo, as I said solitary time dedicated to the detachment of the self may help some people find calmness, but not everyone needs it.

Reading a piece of philosophical literature for 5 minutes did more for me intellectually than 6 years of weekly meditation.

Anonymous Mon May 9 14:38:19 2011 No.1758555

>>1758541
Then why call it mystical?
not the guy you quoted but I wouldn't meditation mystical. the word conjures up strong images of fairy dust and unicorns.
>And maybe not all approaches to meditation are based on placebo, as I said solitary time dedicated to the detachment of the self may help some people find calmness, but not everyone needs it.
While seeking calmness may be the goal of some meditators it wasn't the end goal of the buddhas teachings, nor is any mental state, that which can be observed, a characteristic of enlightenment.

>Reading a piece of philosophical literature for 5 minutes did more for me intellectually than 6 years of weekly meditation.
Meditation isn't a tool to strengthen the intellect, although you can do both at the same time.

Anonymous Mon May 9 14:38:19 2011 No.1758556

>>1758541
People call meditation mystical because it's part of a hermeneutic indoctrination. This process, I should preface, isn't anything bad in itself. Basically, you're handed a set of terms that are used for their rhetorical power and are used to establish a group identity. The word mysticism contains certain associations: the exotic, the historical, the spiritual, removal from the mundane. Mysticism then leads you to a term-set for that particular flavor of the mystical. You then interpret everything through this term-set. Real world becomes maya, etc. This also establishes a group identity through common language and identification with a label. Belonging to a group is very powerful psychologically.

>>	deleted Mon May 9 15:36:19 2011 No.1758688 you dont /thread

>>	PLEASE DON'T LET THIS BE ANOTHER FIELD TRIP !!jWrutkMr4fM Mon May 9 15:46:19 2011 No.1758709 File: 56 KB, 518x670, SpidermansDeformedCousinDisagrees.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Lucid dream.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 18:05:19 2011 No.1758887 >>1758709 1. get cash 2. get blow 3. get bitches 4. ??? 5. wake up

Anonymous Mon May 9 19:26:19 2011 No.1759059

Get yourself some Ram Dass, maybe Assaglioli. Start reading about transpersonal psychology. If you want to use breath to "get high" or just deeper into yourself, do some Holotropic Breathwork or Sudarshan Kryic Yogic work (specifically bhastrika).

Trust me, I'm a doctor.

>>	♥ !Rrxa7zePwI Mon May 9 19:32:19 2011 No.1759073 >higher consciousness fly

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 19:33:19 2011 No.1759074 READ KAFKA (The Prison Colony Collection with the best short stories) ... then think .... the READ IT ALL AGAIN

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 19:34:19 2011 No.1759077 *penal colony

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 19:35:19 2011 No.1759085 Reading Kafka's "Country Doctor" is supposed to boost creative thinking due to the surreal nature of the text.

>>	Anonymous Mon May 9 19:39:19 2011 No.1759095 File: 32 KB, 500x500, 41HCZM6G6DL._SS500_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Going out on a limb here, but I guess this just may be appropriate to OP's question

Anonymous Mon May 9 19:50:19 2011 No.1759104

>>1759059

Specifically Ram Dass' Ecstatic States video, Robert Maslow's idea of peak experiences, some of Eckhart Tolle's Power of Now. Again, holistic or transpersonal psych will question the necessity of your ego and get you in touch with things beyond the self.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 10 14:25:19 2011 No.1760936 mushrooms

>>	Anonymous Tue May 10 14:37:19 2011 No.1760961 >>1757756 Shakespeare, young pneumatic.

>>	Anonymous Tue May 10 14:54:19 2011 No.1760989 File: 112 KB, 949x485, maslow.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>1759104 Abraham Maslow

>>	Anonymous Tue May 10 15:06:19 2011 No.1761005 There is no higher consciousness. Don't waste energy on an illusion. Do something you actually enjoy. Play Portal 2 for example.

>>	satago110 Tue May 10 15:06:19 2011 No.1761008 Over a hundred posts and I didn't see Carlos Casteneda mentioned once. Read the first three in high school, right after Fear and Loathing.

Anonymous Tue May 10 15:19:19 2011 No.1761030

Philosophy is a load of wank op. I used to be really interested in it, but its an endless cycle of chasing your own tail. You're bored, theres a gap in your life, so you go looking for purpose and meaning like every human brain that isn't kept occupied yearns for. You read some stuff you find interesting, but ultimately it has no large effect on your life, then later on you read some new stuff and throw the old stuff out. You wont find answers, you'll always be incomplete and confused, until you die. Just make sure that before then, you don't waste your days bored, chasing non-existent answers to never ending questions.

Focus on living your life, instead of stunting it. Truly happy people dont even bother with these questions because they're too busy fucking their trophy wife, looking after their perfect daughter, reading books on their yacht and working at their passion.

Live by common sense; its not as common as you think.

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]

/lit/ - Literature