/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17515237]

I'm a Protestant but after studying the Kabbala I'm willing to contemplate the idea that the early church preserved some oral traditions to complement the written texts.
My problem is Orthos always just make vague statements about the old church or the original faith.
Are there Orthodox authors who genuinely engage with the historical development of doctrine and the criticism raised by cathos and protestants?

[Anonymous No.17515345]

Could you be more specific? Orthodoxy is the original teaching in the sense that it is what Jesus taught and the apostles' preached. We do not believe sola Scriptura because even in the Bible there are implications as to additional material (Paul makes reference to oral tradition, he also implies there were more letters to Corinth, and at the end of John it says there are not enough books in the world to contain all of Christ's teachings)

The Church was Orthodox when the Bible was compiled. It is not meant to be an exhaustive encyclopedia of Christianity. We also look to the Ecumenical Councils for dogmatic truth. I don't know what you mean by "historical development of doctrine," as everything done by Rome after 1054 (and every other denomination) is in some way inauthentic Christianity. There is nothing new to add. We do not know more than the apostles did. The purpose of the councils was to clarify their teachings and to combat major heresies of the time. If you give me a specific issue I would be happy to help. If not check out this website.

http://orthodoxinfo.com

[Anonymous No.17515353]

>>17515345
>I don't know what you mean by "historical development of doctrine,
The fact that orthodox theology developed over time of course. Example allowing images that were forbidden in the bible

[Anonymous No.17515491]

>>17515353
Are you talking about the iconoclast controversy?

[Anonymous No.17515721]

>>17515237
I am orthodox but I agree that a lot of orthos exaggerated over this idea, that orthodoxy is pure original christianity, unlike catholicism(not to mention protestantism). But, I still think that some orthodox traditions like hesychasm may be very close to the ones of the early esoteric christians, especially of the desert fathers.

[Anonymous No.17515798]

>>17515237
Just read the church fathers.
If you want some historic summery Jaroslav Pelikan is ok.

[Anonymous No.17515828]

>>17515353
has you read how the temple looks, go read the OT again.
Icons are not a development https://youtu.be/7jvap4ItDlk
http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/icon_faq.aspx

[Anonymous No.17516690]

>>17515237
When you read the epistles, does it seem like that's all they have to say? Or does what they write make it seem like they are communicating with the various churches more than what's been recorded?

[Anonymous No.17517556]

The "Orthodox early Church" is a blatant lie.

[Anonymous No.17517596]

>>17515237
>My problem is Orthos always just make vague statements about the old church or the original faith.
Catholics do this too. Anyone who believes in extra-scriptural "tradition" has to do this, because there is no "tradition" to point to. It's just a vague idea used to justify any kind of unscriptural innovation. They don't have an actual oral tradition with extra-biblical apostolic sayings to justify any of this.

[Anonymous No.17517610]

>>17515237
>I'm a Protestant
Oh you're in trouble
>but after studying the Kabbala
STOP TURN BACK AND RUN TO A CATHOLIC CATHEDRAL, TELL THE PRIEST EVERYTHING

[Anonymous No.17517618]

>>17517596
This is wrong.

>>17515237
The reason you see Orthos always make vague statements is because the average Ortho is not a philosopher, theologian, priest, or apologist. Still, it’s a bit difficult to even point you in any one direction because the accusation and the question are so vague.

[Anonymous No.17517619]

>>17517556
Brother, you should be careful with your words. Orthodox means right teaching. The early church was necessarily orthodox, and all the Eastern churches belonged to it. If they no longer belong to the Church, it is because they are no longer orthodox. If they have the right view of things, they are still orthodox, as they call themselves. This divide between us has existed for a millenia; is this how it will be repaired?

[Anonymous No.17517636]

>>17515237
>OMG IS THAT A BIBLICALLY-ACCURATE ANGEL

[Anonymous No.17517677]

>>17515345
>>17515237
Every Catholic I see argues against a straw man.

Sola scriptura is the idea that the Bible necessarily has everything needed for salvation with no extra knowledge required. Logically this implies nothing about oral traditions veracity only that it isn’t necessRy

[Anonymous No.17517710]

>Kabbalah

Anon, you have been doing magic. You are in a lot of trouble.

[Anonymous No.17517715]

>>17517677
I'm going to create a new doctrine: Sola Ephesians.

[Anonymous No.17517733]

>>17517677
Every Catholic?

[Anonymous No.17517768]

>>17517710
Cute girl but magic is not real

[Anonymous No.17517772]

>>17517715
>he thinks that refutes sola scriptura

Brainlet

[Anonymous No.17517782]

>>17517733
Yes, I think they are trained spoon fed lines about Lutherans without actually understanding lutherans

[Anonymous No.17517841]

>>17517556
>first quote is already a mistranslation to support Papal supremacy
Awesome!

[࿇ C Œ M G E N V S ࿇ !KNDYSEULU. No.17518089]

CATHOLICISM CHRISTIANIZES THE WORLD, WHILST «PROTESTANTISM» DECHRISTIANIZES IT, AND ORIENTAL SCHISMATICISM FESTERS IN HERMITAGES.

[Anonymous No.17518096]

>>17518089
based schizo

[Anonymous No.17518169]

>>17518089
>Catholicism Christianizes the world
I can’t imagine believe this in current year.

[Anonymous No.17518202]

>>17517772
I don't. I think you can reconstruct the entirety of the Christian faith from Ephesians alone.

Brainlet.If you weren't a brainlet you would have known I was going to call you a brainlet in this spoiler text.

[Anonymous No.17518208]

>>17517782
Literally trained? What would say do Catholics most fail to understand about Lutheranism?

[Anonymous No.17518213]

>>17517782
Anyone who has read Bouyer's The Spirit and Forms of Protestantism understands Lutherans pretty well, I daresay.

[Anonymous No.17518232]

>>17518202
>I think you can reconstruct the entirety of the Christian faith from Ephesians alone.

Not hardly, because you would be missing "the source and summit of the Christian faith."

[Anonymous No.17518284]

>>17518169
You should open a book about modern history then.

[Anonymous No.17518306]

>>17518284
You should try opening your eyes so you can plainly see the Catholic world increasingly opening up to atheist secularism and the resulting copes, just as St. Gregory predicted.

[Anonymous No.17518313]

>>17518284
They are also often CINOs, Christian in Name Only

[Anonymous No.17518331]

>>17518306
>>17518313
And protestantism isn't?

[Anonymous No.17518353]

>>17518331
Of course it is but I wasn’t replying to a Protestant.

[Anonymous No.17518370]

>>17518353
Then I don't see any reason to not just say its a Christian issue

[Anonymous No.17518400]

>>17518306
I don't know what the wave of modern secularism has to do with the historical fact that Catholicism has christianized half of the globe.

[Anonymous No.17518401]

>>17518370
Oh you don’t? Lol. Protestants and Roman Catholics are not the only Christians you know.

[Anonymous No.17518417]

>>17518400
Sorry. I thought Christianity was about Christ but I guess I just missed the whole part about the goal being having a whole bunch of people who call themselves Christians but don’t observe it at all and continue to practice their folk religions where they do, for a temporary period of time before they all turn atheist.

[Anonymous No.17518433]

>>17518417
What is this seething? What are you talking about folk religions? People in south america are more religious than you.

[Anonymous No.17518445]

>>17518089

[Anonymous No.17518503]

>>17518433
You don’t know what you’re talking about, dude. That or I guess you’re a Catholic that’s come to believe that just about anything can be Christian or something. I don’t know. Just go to Mexico or something and really look. You’ll see plainly that some of the local rituals and beliefs are not only not belonging to the Church or Rome but not at all Christian. I’m also not seething. You’re the one that pressed me on the idea, which has really become obvious at this point, that the Catholic Church is, unfortunately, unraveling and trending to secular atheism. From where I’m standing, Protestantism and Catholicism are really starting to look like 2 sides of the same coin and how many people once stood under the banner of “Catholicism” seems to me pretty irrelevant. That’s all I’m saying

[Anonymous No.17518675]

>>17518503
Please, stop thinking everything you see on the internet is real. This is some next level online Ortholarping, judging the "level of Christianity" of an entire continent based on some folklorical festivities and marginal cases of santeria. The praying pharisee of the Gospels couldn't make it better than you do.

[Anonymous No.17519133]

>>17518089
>CATHOLICISM CHRISTIANIZES THE WORLD, WHILST «PROTESTANTISM» DECHRISTIANIZES IT
>The modern missionary movement is essentially Protestant driven
What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.17519164]

>>17518433
>People in south america are more religious than you
But are they more Christian? They worship skeletons ffs.

[Anonymous No.17519268]

>>17518445
As a Catholic involved in traditional movements, I am deeply saddened by how true this image is.

[࿇ C Œ M G E N V S ࿇ !KNDYSEULU. No.17519302]

>>17519133


WHICH PART OF: «... "PROTESTANTISM" DECHRISTIANIZES [THE WORLD]...», DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

[Anonymous No.17519340]

>>17519302
Friend, to speak the truth without charity is to abuse the truth.

[࿇ C Œ M G E N V S ࿇ !KNDYSEULU. No.17519394]

>>17519340


1. WE DO NOT EVEN KNOW EACH OTHER, THEREFORE DO NOT CALL ME «FRIEND».

2. DO YOU HAVE AN ARGUMENT?

[Anonymous No.17519421]

>>17519394
You are Catholic, no? I am Catholic also. Each of us desires the glory of God above all things. And each of us loves our neighbor more than self, no? If you have for your goal the salvation of my soul, and the piling on of grace and merits beyond that, you are my friend, no? And if I desire likewise for you, am I not your friend?

[࿇ C Œ M G E N V S ࿇ !KNDYSEULU. No.17519438]

>>17519421


YOU ARE MY FELLOW, NOT MY FRIEND; DO NOT REGARD FRIENDSHIP SO TRIVIALLY & LIGHTLY.

[Anonymous No.17519450]

So I'm curious: are there any actual Orthos in this thread? Like, people from Russia, or Greece, or the Balkans? Because I've always wondered how they feel about people in the West getting into Orthodoxy.

I'm a Catholic, and as LARPy as the TradCath movement can be, it seems like the Orthodox have it worse. My overwhelming impression of most Orthobros is that they (rightly) sense the inherent emptiness of modern American Protestantism, so they reject it, but they've kept the inherent Protestant suspicion of Catholicism so they don't want to join up with Rome. Hence, they turn to Orthodoxy, the other Church with apostolic succession. Also it's distant and exotic and that's appealing to people in their teens and twenties.

[Anonymous No.17519716]

>>17519438
Would you deny that we ought to be friends? Would you deny that it behooves all men to be friends? And if we are enemies, are we not obliged to love each other like friends, just as Christ loved us?

[Anonymous No.17520148]

>>17515353
You clearly need to actually read about Orhodoxy if you think icons go against scripture.

[Anonymous No.17520271]

>>17519450
american convert. (not old stock, but whatever) yeah, you more or less described my path, although some of it was just "pure coincidence" like friend's friend inviting me out of blue, that parish being convert parish, etc. however, during catechesis, i slowly got out of this so-called "augustinian mentality", and starting reading cappadoceans from different angle, desert fathers, etc. so yeah, the beginning was larpy, but ended well. (had great deacon,priest,godfather,etc, which helped too, definitely)

[Anonymous No.17520373]

>>17520271
I've not heard of this "Augustinian mentality". Augustine, obviously, was a great saint, so I guess you are referring to some kind of spiritual self-delusion?

[Anonymous No.17520389]

>>17517556
Do you sincerely believe that the Catholic church is in any way legitimate today? Protestantism is the way of the modern era. Kierkegaard's work will set you free.

[Anonymous No.17520404]

>>17520373
many orthodoxs do not regard augustine that highly, or even as saint (for some). the opinion is that his latin notions of things, about church, black-and-white world view, linear concept of time, original sin, etc, are "beginning of the end" of the western church. i mean, some even consider the protestant reformation as "re-interpreting augustine", and such view isnt that far-off, in my opinion.

[Anonymous No.17520409]

>>17515345
>everything done by Rome
>everything
This is where you lose me, why try to say that literally everything that has developed is wrong? This is obviously just a purely reactionary, nonthinking take.

[Anonymous No.17520414]

>>17520389
I sincerely believe the Catholic Church was, is, and always be the only way. I think contemporary history shows this extraordinarily clearly. I would readily agree that Protestantism and Modernism are rather inseparable, but that is to the credit of neither. What do you find lacking in the Church?

[Anonymous No.17520424]

>>17520414

[Anonymous No.17520427]

>>17520404
That genuinely surprises me. What exactly are his "Latin notions"?

[Anonymous No.17520442]

Someone free me, Calvinism seems true at this point in my life.

[Anonymous No.17520443]

>>17520427
scholasticism, "predestination", original sin, fusion of clerical power and earthly power (this one is tricky, but you get the point. compare latium vs thrace), linear progression time, overly legalistic "explantion" of "western version of theosis" or whatever, etc. for me, the "clearest" comparision is the comparison between athnonite monks vs jesuits, if that makes sense

[Anonymous No.17520447]

>>17520442
nihilistic atheism is the logical conclusion of calvinism. read gregory of nyssa and think again about the soteriology of western church

[Anonymous No.17520468]

>>17520389
Today and always, as it has been instituted by Jesus Christ on the person of St. Peter. God doesn't set expiration dates.

[Anonymous No.17520484]

>>17520468
The pope is a literal heretic. A while back John Paul 2 kissed the Koran. The recent pope is full-on globohomo. Homosexuality, sexual promiscuity, abortion, praise for diversity and tolerance, and the love of Muslims are all things that, if promoted in the past, would have guaranteed a swift beheading. Also I'm pretty confident that the current Vatican is fully aware of their pedophile problem.

[Anonymous No.17520525]

>>17520443
I apologize, but I'm not really much of a scholar, so I don't really understand what you're getting at. Could you go more fully into just one of these things?

[Anonymous No.17520531]

>>17520525
https://blogs.ancientfaith.com/glory2godforallthings/the-river-of-fire-kalomiros/
i think reading this may help better than my explanations tbqh

[Anonymous No.17520534]

>>17520484
Heresy is something rather specific, and I don't think you have the specifics to demonstrate it.

[Anonymous No.17520548]

>>17520534
No Pope in the past could have gotten away with the 'liberal values' espoused by the modern ones. You can't deny that the promotion of abortion, diversity, tolerance, and sexual promiscuity are all diametrically opposed to scripture. Catholicism is dead.

[Anonymous No.17520684]

>>17520531
I am sorry friend, but this blog does not seem to understand Western Theology. I see no contradiction between Justice and Mercy. Hell is real. Those who go there will be there forever. It will be eternal suffering. Is God not the maker of hell? If he is not who is? If he is, it must be just. If it is just, those who suffer there must deserve it. Scripture speaks clearly of a final judgment. It speaks of a day of wrath. It says vengeance is the Lord's. Jesus speaks of the five virgins who brought no oil, and so were barred from the heavenly banquet. Jesus speaks of the man who had no wedding garment, and so was thrown out of the heavenly banquet. Jesus speaks of the Christians who will come to him saying "Have we not professed your name," and he will say "I do not know you." God of course is life, and to turn away from God is to turn away from life and to turn toward death. This seems to make the mistake of thinking that death and sin exist as life and grace exist; that error is something solid just as truth is something solid; but this is not so. An error is not something of itself, but it is a confusion of what is true. Disorder is not its own thing, but the confusion of order. It is like blindness. A blind man does not have something instead of sight, but rather he simply lacks sight. The lack of something is not a thing in and of itself. I do not think this writer has properly understood Catholic teaching.

[Anonymous No.17520708]

>>17520548
He has not promoted abortion. I think some of his statements about public policy regarding homosexuality would have a harmful effect, but I also recognize that his intent is otherwise, and so even if it would be monumentally imprudent, it is not error properly so called. Likewise, the policies of forced diversity and immigration as a political issue are distinct from the consistent moral teaching of the Church which is that while it is good to have national sentiments, they cannot be so strong as to stir violence between nations; whether a nation exists is according to the will of God, and no nation is intrinsically good or worthy of existence; neither is there any implicit harm in the mixing of nations.

It is hard in these days (as though it was ever easy) to know what is true in newspapers and media reports. The Church is alive, and the gates of hell will never prevail against it. Why would Christ give us this promise unless we would be tempted to think otherwise?

[Anonymous No.17520717]

>>17520708
I don't know man, Kierkegaard's theology is awfully compelling.

[Anonymous No.17520734]

>>17520708
Francis once called a woman going to an abortion clinic "like hiring a hitman," which is actually a really great way of putting it.

[Anonymous No.17520761]

>>17520734
Yes. While there is much he says and does which I question prudentially, the more I read his words directly rather than what's reported, the more I find what he says to be useful. I cannot explain all that he does. I cannot know the state of his soul. There are some things which are truly and deeply confounding. But most the time I find he is simply not the man that anyone says he is.

[Anonymous No.17520766]

big shaman tell grug only he can speak to skyfather
shaman has big hat so grug believe
bow to big shaman or grug smash!

[Anonymous No.17520784]

>>17520761
The trouble is that the American press AND the Anglo press are all profoundly anti-Catholic. Anything Francis says that can make the Church look bad, or undermine the faith of Catholics, they'll do it. And unfortunately Francis sometimes does not speak as clearly as I wish he did. I think it's the Jesuit in him. "Jesuitical" is a word for a reason.

[Anonymous No.17520837]

>>17520708
>>17520761
This is well said. For my own part, I know that when I read through, for example, his daily Mass sermons posted on vatican.va (or a book collecting his pre-papacy sermons), he is a spiritually inspiring preacher with consistently striking insights. And he indeed seems very traditional in his theology and piety. So the strange, headline-making news reports of Francis's purported remarks are vexing, and I think likely reflect news media distortion (including, at the initial, translation into English stage).

[Anonymous No.17520849]

>>17520784
he's literally an atheist, how can anyone make him look any worse than he truly is?

[Anonymous No.17521752]

>>17520484
Everything you've said will pass, the Church will remain.

[Anonymous No.17521763]

>>17521752
I don't know bro, faith rests within. Gotta read some Kierkegaard.

[Anonymous No.17522012]

>>17520849
Where has he said he is an atheist?

[Anonymous No.17522149]

Christianity is the Aryan's homosexual desire for the Jew and you could scratch the same itch by getting really into Van Halen

[Anonymous No.17522217]

>>17521763
Faith is the knowledge of what is not seen. How does that "lie within?"

[Anonymous No.17522230]

>>17522217
One isn't made Christian merely by participating in social activities or donating to charities. It really boils down to your personal relationship with God. Faith is a constant struggle within. Just read Kierkegaard. He's literally the BEST theologian.

[Anonymous No.17522240]

>>17515237
Arianism or bust, man

[Anonymous No.17522377]

>>17515798
Arent a lot of Church Fathers teachings considered heretical, like Origen?

[Anonymous No.17522402]

>>17522230
Better than Augustine and Aquinas?

[Anonymous No.17522413]

>>17522402
Both are less personally relevant and helpful for the modern person. Augustine's life isn't exactly something to model oneself off of, and Aquinas was primarily a scholastic. Kierkegaard provides a perfect mixture of intellectual insights and personal takeaways that will ultimately enrich your life.

[Anonymous No.17522450]

>>17522413
>Augustine's life isn't exactly something to model oneself off of,
I think his life is a fantastic redemption story. He lived mired in sin and doubt and then converted, changing his entire lifestyle. I personally thought the Confessions was beautiful. It's a book I intend to read several times because I know I missed much in my first reading. As for Aquinas, I know he's dry and legalistic. But theology is dry and technical, so if our metric is theology then Aquinas might just be unrivaled.
I actually havent read kirkegaard yet. I heard he responds a lot to Kant and Hegel whom I still havent really gotten into much. Getting through the canon feels like a slow ascent. If you know any books by or about kirkegaard which dont require much prerequisite information about Kant or Hegel, especially Hegel, please reccomend them to me.

[Anonymous No.17522457]

>>17522450
Fear and Trembling is a great start. Also, video related: https://youtu.be/2czv3KkcyHs

[Anonymous No.17522497]

>>17522457
>https://youtu.be/2czv3KkcyHs
Thats prettt fucking funny, but I dont think its fair to hold Augustine's early sinful life against him

[Anonymous No.17522513]

If Christianity is a universal religion for all nations how do Orthodox Christians explain the provincialism of their faith? Theological arguments aside, it is limited to a relatively small part of the world. Its influence has been on the wane of centuries. Missionary work seems paltry compared to the Catholics and Protestants. Despite pockets of converts in the West, am I to believe this the true faith, one with a global scale and influence?

[Anonymous No.17522522]

>>17522497
Yeah, that's fair. I didn't mean to suggest that Augustine isn't an inspiring figure in any way, but Kierkegaard is far more relatable to people. To get an idea of what I mean, take a look at this page (he lived through the three stages himself): https://www.sparknotes.com/philosophy/kierkegaard/themes/

I'm a little lazy for effort posting, but it isn't all that necessary as Kierkegaard is widely taught. You can find lots of books and lectures on him.

[Anonymous No.17522543]

>>17522522
So will Fear and Trembling address those specific issues in the article linked? It looks really interesting

[Anonymous No.17522560]

>>17515237
All religions are outcomes of political necessity. Genuine belief is for proles. Pragmatic beliefe patrician.

[Anonymous No.17522573]

>>17522543
It's a starter to Kierkegaard. Short book but gives you an idea of what faith means to him. In it, he imagines what went through Abraham's mind before attempting to murder his son Isaac. Kierkegaard sees Abraham as a knight of faith, a figure who practiced the teleological suspension of the ethical and gave himself up to God. Either/Or is his more existentialist book written by fictitious authors (he was famous for doing that), and Sickness Unto Death is the more philosophical text. Also, here's a decent looking lecture on him: https://youtu.be/AILpwUTPRGQ

[Anonymous No.17523150]

>>17522377
not a CF in the strict sense, and there are plenty more orthodox ones than heretical ones.

>>17515237
try Joseph Farrell's God, History and Dialectic. You can also compare the primary texts of various Church Fathers, such as:

St Clement of Rome, St Irenaeus of Lyons, St Athanasius, the Cappadocians, St Maximus, St John Damascene to name a few. St John Chrysostom has a looooot of works too.

[Anonymous No.17523914]

>>17520484
>The recent pope is full-on globohomo.
No he isn't. Stop falling for the media headlines which constantly try to make him out to be more liberal than he is. Francis is conservative with a small c. He doesn't regard gay marriage as valid, and he was one of the first Popes to actively state that Christians should respond to the desecration of their churches by Islamic terrorists with force.

[Anonymous No.17523921]

>>17520414
well said

[Anonymous No.17523940]

>>17519450
The Jay Dyer crew is universally hated.

[Anonymous No.17524924]

>>17520414
It is difficult for me to accept the paganism that running through the church (e.g. flaming monstrance that seems to invoke sol invictus, the adoration of Mary which may stem from Artemis and ISIS worship, the presence of an Egyptian obelisk in front of the Vatican etc.)

[Anonymous No.17524972]

>>17519450
Its great that people have finally realised the lie of Protestantism.
We want everyone to join the Church.
>>17523940
He is Ok, what are you on about.

[Anonymous No.17525373]

>>17524924
The greeks would burn slaughtered animals as sacrifices to appease the anger of their supposed Gods. In fact, ritual sacrifice is found in almost all natural religions. The Jews also had ritual sacrifices; were they pagan for doing so? Of course not; they offered these sacrifices to the one true God, and he proscribed the practice for them.

It would seem where you most disagree is on the error of evolution. If Man is considered as rising up from ape, appearing in large numbers, and the coalescing around certain cultural practices, the similarities between faiths becomes disturbing. But when it's recognized that man has fallen, the similarities start to become more understandable. Adam and Even knew God, and so did all of their children. The true faith is not that which arose out of nothing, but is rather that which has been preserved since the beginning, From Adam to Noah, from Noah to Abraham, from Abraham to Moses, from Moses to Christ, and from Christ to the Apostles, and from the Apostles to the Church. When seen in this true light, it becomes clear that all other religions are not original creations of their own, evolving from some base instinct, so much as they are deviations, perversions, corruptions of the true faith. After all, error is not something which opposes truth as a Man stands opposite his reflection; no, error relates to truth as a mirror relates to a broken mirror.

Men have worshipped the sun, because it is the superior light of the sky. But why is there a superior light in the sky? Because God ordered the universe toward our understanding, and gave us the sun as a symbol of his own being. The sun, then, ought not to be worshipped, as it was in the past, because the sun is created, and nothing created should be held above the creator. But, when we recognize how God has used the sun as a symbol of himself, our love and awe for him grows, helping us to love, adore, and worship Him better, above all things.

[Anonymous No.17525537]

>>17525373
>The Jews also had ritual sacrifices
They still have it. They torture chickens on the regular.

[Anonymous No.17525655]

>>17525537
1. you've clearly missed the point. 2. Hasidic communities have very notably suspended ritual sacrifice since the destruction of the temple. Most Rabbis hold that a temple is needed in order to resume sacrifices. The last name Cohen in part marks the descendants of the priests.

[Anonymous No.17525662]

>>17525373
It is subjective to think that the OT is the pure truth, while other religious teachings about distant times are deviations. More accurate would be to say that all orthodox religions come from one primordial source. I understand that this point of view isn't very dogmatic but it seems that some esoteric writers(Ibn Arabi, Dante, etc.) tend to go in that direction, even if they don't say exactly this, they are closer to this view than the average religious people. When you come closer to the pure metaphysical truth, forms start to disappear.

[Anonymous No.17525697]

>>17525662
I'm not sure you understand the meaning of subjective. You have contended what I claim to be objective truth with your own claim of objective truth. How can something be more accurate unless there is a most accurate? What I have claimed is both internally and externally consistent, and what you have claimed is not.

[Anonymous No.17525705]

>>17525655
I missed the point of what? If I was actually a part of your conversation I would engage with your entire post and not just that one part. I could show you videos of them torturing chickens if you want, I don't know how you can deny that it happens.

https://www.rt.com/usa/315485-orthodox-jews-slaughter-chicken-kaporos/

[Anonymous No.17525717]

>>17525655
>>17525705
Look at this clearly suspended ritual that doesn't take place. Nazi.

[Anonymous No.17525787]

>>17525717
Kapparot hardly rises to the level of ritual. A Torah service is a ritual. The Catholic Mass is a ritual. There are rules to how the chicken is to be killed, but it is not a formal rite requiring a priest. It is not, then, a formal ritual sacrifice.

[Anonymous No.17525996]

>>17525787
A ritual is any religious ceremony. You must be Jewish and this sort of sophistry is one of the many reasons why you people are so hated.

[Anonymous No.17526031]

>>17525996
No, it’s not the same as Catholic mass...

[Anonymous No.17526052]

>>17526031
Who the hell said it was?

[Anonymous No.17526101]

>>17522513
The question is how dogmatic do you want to be. Are all non-orthodox Christians heretics or simply misguided?

[Anonymous No.17526126]

>>17522513
>If Christianity is a universal religion
It's a religion by and for Whites. You can't actually download it to other races. Just look at Africa. A religion reveals the psychology of a race, nothing more

[Anonymous No.17526157]

>>17522513
>>17526101

In the Orthodox worldview, it’s a matter of Truth vs. non-Truth, correct Christology vs. incorrect Christology. The Church does, in fact, recognize, for example, Catholics and Protestants, as heterodox and basically heretics. However, it does not imply that Catholics or Protestants are necessarily condemned to hell for their congregation, if that’s they’re asking. It’s a matter of incidence and acceptance. If you have the fortune to have Orthodoxy accessible to you and you’ve heard it’s position and you recognize it as true, and still reject it in favor of another, or if you hold schismatic views then yes you are in fact a schismatic and heretic. The Orthodox Church is like a ship in a storm. It’s possible to be saved by clinging to a piece of wood adrift in the stormy seas and that’s a matter that’s in the hands of God, but to those who are able to rest aboard the ship, aboard it is salvation.

[Anonymous No.17526166]

>>17526126
>Yeah, dude. Religion is just a consequence of this somewhat arbitrary thing we made up a few hundred years ago.

[Anonymous No.17526180]

>>17525996
I agree, ritual and ceremony are synonymous. But I can identify little in kapparot that is ceremonial. A counter example--receiving an oversized check is ceremonial, but is not frequent, nor does it have any rules proscribing it, so we don't consider it ritual; giving a man a tip is frequent, and has certain rules which govern it, but the rules are unwritten and informal, and without ceremony, and so we don't consider it a ritual. Where there are both express rules and ceremony, then we consider something to be ritual. Kapparot is not ceremonial, nor does it have particular rules governing it; rather, it is done in accord with broader rules which govern many things, not just it.

As another comparison: kosher laws govern the proper killing of animals, but it does not proscribe much ritual, and so it is not the ritual killing of an animal. But halal does proscribe rules about the ritual which surrounds the animal must killed, not as a matter of ethic or law or moral alone, but as ceremony. For example, in kosher laws, a rabbi must oversee the killing, but need not do it himself, but in Halal, the slaughter must be performed by the imam or some other religiously delegated figure.

[Anonymous No.17526182]

>>17515237
They'll never tell you what is an authentic oral tradition that actually originates from Jesus and/or His apostles -- and what was made up hundreds of years later.

[Anonymous No.17526189]

>>17526126
The Africans have taken to Christianity and, in many cases, syncretized it.

Why then is the church recruiting African priests to serve in Europe? Universalist religions like Christianity are fluid, not tied down to a particular region. Remember, it once flourished in North Africa and Syria, only to be extinguished later.

[Anonymous No.17526209]

>>17526157
Why would the true faith be limited to a certain cultural group and region?

[Anonymous No.17526214]

>>17526189
>Universalist religions like Christianity are fluid, not tied down to a particular region.
Yeah like your universalist gender isn't tied down to particular chromosomes, fuckouttahere
>Remember, it once flourished in North Africa and Syria, only to be extinguished later.
Islam is much more congenial to those
>people.
All the inward agonies, the soul-searching, the desire to be morally perfect...yeah browns dgaf.

[Anonymous No.17526226]

>>17526157
The Catholic position is much similar, though it can be difficult to understand where exactly the lines of culpability fall. Since our acts, in their material being and consequences, are rather insignificant, the rightness and goodness of an act is understood principally by the will--by intent. If a man is truly ignorant of the wrong he is doing, then how can he be held guilty for this? But it become a very difficult question to know to what extent we are really ignorant, and not willfully so (out of ignorance or pride, or so forth). God of course knows all things and has made all things for their and his own good, so we can be confident that all things will be just and according to the fullness of mercy.

[Anonymous No.17526232]

>>17526182
Where is the evidence that something was made up later?

[Anonymous No.17526265]

>>17526166
>God creates Charles Darwin
>Darwin writes book
>Everyone starts evolving
t. you

Things are real before you know they're real, you boob

[Anonymous No.17526284]

>>17526209
I am not the man you are responding to, and I am a Catholic, but I must defend them on this point. The Eastern position is not that the faith be limited by geographic region, nor even exclusively governed by geographic region; rather they hold that there is not a higher singular, earthly authority above the head of certain regions; this is a consequence not of the geography, but of the growth of faith in an area. So, after some time, the churches in Russia are given to govern themselves. There are then several regional governances (which is certainly prudent). The distinction then between the Catholic and Eastern position is then (on this issue), whether these regional heads are subject to one universal earthly head (the Pope, which Catholics say is guided by the Holy Spirit by the nature of this supreme office), or only subject to the Holy Ghost via ecumenical councils.

[Anonymous No.17526296]

>>17526232
Exactly. And where is the evidence that something origiated with Jesus and/or the apostles?

[Anonymous No.17526324]

>>17526180
I'm not reading your essay on how rituals aren't rituals.

[Anonymous No.17526358]

The earth is billions of goddamn years old. Life at least one billion. LIGHT would take tens of billions of years to cross the universe. LIGHT! And we don't even know how big it is because the observable universe is smaller than the whole thing!

And you MISCREANTS carry on with your flat-earth miracle-man woo-woo from the Bronze Age! Because it gives you feefees! Warm and fuzzies!

The arrogance! The absolute will to stupidity! Who the fuck are you!? You stand on the shoulders of giants only to say
>please put me down
>I liked it down there better
And you teach your mental disease to CHILDREN! And when your 'faith' is fervent enough, you burn people alive!

YOU SHOULD UNIRONICALLY BE LITERALLY KILLED. YOU ARE FUCKING HORRIBLE

[Anonymous No.17526371]

>>17526358
>>please put me down
>>I liked it down there better
yes, there are things man was not meant to know

[Anonymous No.17526377]

>>17526371
Like what your gay face looks like, kys

[Anonymous No.17526379]

Пpaвocлaвиe или cмepть

[Anonymous No.17526381]

>>17526284
I’ve met Orthodox Christians that are more ecumenical and others that are downright hostile to Catholics. It seems that Catholics are willing to accept the East into the fold. This is the major difference, Catholicism is a universalist faith - she seeks to envelop all nations (Evangelical Protestants have the same impulse.)

From what I can see, Orthodoxy is much more insular, tied to national identities and governments, and not especially fervent about proselytizing.

[Anonymous No.17526406]

>>17526296
1. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
2. The testimony of tradition is evidence.

The arguments you use against atheists are the same arguments I use to justify the Catholic Faith to protestants. The mere existence of the seven sacraments means they had to have originated from somewhere. They are found in the Eastern Churches, the Coptic Churches, the Asian Churches, and the Catholic Church. All these churches teach that these sacraments were instituted by the apostles. Scripture explicitly stated that the Holy Ghost would continue to teach the apostles and the church more than Christ explicitly said in his life. The epistles clearly reveal an active and dynamic church that lives more on oral teaching than on letters. There is no evidence that the sacraments were invented later. What reason can be given, then, for believing in a church without sacraments? Strongest of all- Christ tells us to judge a tree by it's fruits. Scripture tells us that dissension and contention are not gifts from God, but rather peace and unity. The truth, necessarily is singular. All churches that have abandoned a true teaching of the sacraments have dissipated, and are full of fundamental theological disagreements. Meanwhile, those churches which have maintained the sacraments, despite having contentions and schism, still exist today in much the same way they have always existed. While I firmly believe in the Catholic Church, I am obligated to defend, at least to some degree, the obvious sacramental reality that exists in the schismatic churches, as opposed to heretical sects which have abandoned these essential teachings.

[Anonymous No.17526430]

>>17526406
>1. The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.
>2. The testimony of tradition is evidence.
1. Still could, maybe
2. Just trust me bro

[Anonymous No.17526459]

Hail to you, you who are glorious and creative,
O Atum-Horakhty!
As you rise splendidly from the horizon of heaven,
praises are yours from the mouths of everyone,
Beautiful, fresh as the youthful sun disk
from the arms of your mother, Hathor.
Rise in splendor everywhere,
with your heart joyful forever!

The Two Shrines of Egypt come to you in obeisance
to offer praise at your rising.

How beautiful you are on the horizon of heaven—
and the Two Lands are suffused with turquoise!

This is Ré-Horakhty,
the Divine Child, heir of eternity,
who procreated himself, bore himself by himself,
King of heaven and earth, ruler of underworld,
chief over desert and realm of the dead;
Who came to be in the waters, drew himself forth from Nun,
brought himself up by himself, made his offspring illustrious.

Mighty king who lights the horizon,
the Nine Great Gods rejoice at your rising,

The whole world is happy,
jubilant at your appearing for them.
Glorious god within his shrine,
lord of eternity in the midst of his skyship,
The Horizon-dwellers row you,
those in the Night Bark sail you,
The Souls of the East invoke you,
and the Souls of the West give you praise.

[Anonymous No.17526472]

>>17526459
You are the good god who heightens the beautiful things
of this world,
who tints the Two Lands gold and silver,
A youth in splendid clothing, a lord well-loved,
mighty, unwearying,
swift-footed, far-striding,

O ariser from eastern horizon,
dispeller of darkness from far ends of earth,
Each eye is filled with awe
as it offers praise at your appearing,
As it watches the Primal One with rejoicing:
and those who accompany you kiss the earth.

You who go to rest in the western horizon,
spreading darkness over all earth,
Light is born at your coming forth,
earth darkens when you go down to your dwelling.

Handsome youth whom Ptah created,
distinguished above all the gods,
You came forth as the Falcon, commander,
with the two Serpents intertwined at your brow,
ruling eternity, sovereign over the gods of forever.
It is you are the king, lord of the atef-crown,
beloved, and your eyes enlighten the earth.

And you are Ré~all forms, all beings—
all living things come to exalt you;
Your mother Nut puts awe in the Two Lands
that they double their worship of you.
You are the primeval one, lord of eternity, great to the far end
of time,
who sails across the sky in the Night Bark,
shining in splendor in the Day Bark.

By the nobleman, Horemheb, who says:
Let me praise you, with your splendor in my eyes,
and may your sunlight fill my breast
as one who champions
Truth under your Majesty, each day.

[Anonymous No.17526510]

>>17526406
Seems that Evangelicals are still rising while Catholicism has either stalled or is already declining in many places.

https://www.ncronline.org/news/parish/evangelicals-gain-catholics-verge-losing-majority-brazil

Know I understand that the hierarchy and organization of the church enables it to outlast its fragmented competitors. However, it seems that the church must adapt in order to reverse the momentum. Vatican II was a half-step and appears to have failed for the most part.

>In all probability, all that is best in Protestantism will only survive in Catholicism, in that sense all Catholics will be Puritans when all Puritans are pagans. (GK Chesterton)

[Anonymous No.17526583]

>>17526358
thanks for revealing you true form satan.

[Anonymous No.17526599]

>>00017518089
did this subhuman change his trip or something? could have sworn I filtered him before

[Anonymous No.17526652]

>>17526226
>The Catholic position is much similar, though it can be difficult to understand where exactly the lines of culpability fall.
True but the actual Catholic Church has also indicated that anyone can be saved even if they’re not a Christian regardless of whether they’ve heard the gospel, are schismatics, etc. Not so in Orthodoxy.

[Anonymous No.17526671]

>>17526265
> Darwinist
> will claim God created man when it is convenient
Besides, the topic was race which is literally a made up concept. It’s just supposed to demarcate different genetic clusters but who’s to say where the line is drawn?

[Anonymous No.17526678]

>>17515353
>yo jew bois never draw me anything that from heaven
>except Cherubs and other angels on the casket, in the temple on the ornaments
huh?

[Anonymous No.17526689]

>>17526381
Catholics are much more willing to accept anyone into the fold and admit that just about anyone can be saved no matter what. It’s not a matter of national insularity so much as what is orthodox and what is heterodox (heretical), and deliberately so.

[Anonymous No.17526731]

[Anonymous No.17526745]

>>17526731
> this is canon
No, it’s not.

[Anonymous No.17526806]

>>17526731
Why do you lie?

[Anonymous No.17526820]

>>17526671
>different genetic clusters
then you already know

why do verbal shell games get you so easily?
>worships Jewish god
Oh

[Anonymous No.17526836]

>>17526671
>will claim God created man when it is convenient
Jesus fucking Christ your reading comprehension

[Anonymous No.17526890]

>>17526820
>>17526836
Are you hacks really pretending that race is not a made up, scientific concept? I could likewise come up with a concept to demarcate clusters of like-colors but it would nonetheless be made up with nothing objective to determine drawing the line here or there.

[Anonymous No.17526928]

>>17526890
And yet 'purple' and 'green' are perfectly meaningful. You're on your way

[Anonymous No.17526942]

Catholicism is just proto-Bolshevism. Protestantism is a neoliberal market system masquerading as faith. Orthodoxy is the only valid - and vivid - interpretation of Christ's thought.

[Anonymous No.17527853]

>>17526430
>Trust me
Is that not the essence of faith? Is this not the entire question of life and society--who do you trust? When all else seems to be the stories of men, I have faith in Christ and the Church, which is the testimony of God himself.

[Anonymous No.17527861]

>>17526510
The Church was growing until Vatican II, and only then did it really start to decline.

[Anonymous No.17527872]

>>17526652
Some in the Church have hinted at this opinion, but it is not right to say the Church itself has done so.

[Anonymous No.17527883]

>>17526928
Right and we had a term for the equivalent called ethne or ethnos. It was only later that the scientific atheists and Anglos decided that wasn’t good enough and actually, we need to come up with a made up categorization method for clusters on a spectrum. It literally doesn’t make sense no matter how you try to spin it.

[Anonymous No.17527885]

>>17526942
If Catholicism is proto-bolshevism, what was the first church of Jerusalem?

[Anonymous No.17527891]

>>17527872
Your pope said it so yeah, it is.

[Anonymous No.17527926]

>>17526942
If Catholicism is proto-Bolshevism, then what is this?

[Anonymous No.17527932]

>>17527891
When and where?

[Anonymous No.17527953]

>>17527853
>Is that not the essence of faith?
Sign for this L my nigga

[Anonymous No.17527971]

>>17527861
19th century Catholicism was based as fuck, doubling down on supernaturalism, mystery, and authority. Newman, Pius X...great men. Responsible for the Catholic literary boom of the 20th cent. But everything great is a finale, and V2 is Catholicism's epitaph.

[Anonymous No.17527993]

>>17527861
Why can you only value things based on a false growth-non growth dichotomy? This is not the stock value.

[Anonymous No.17528007]

>>17527993
stock market*

[Anonymous No.17528041]

>>17527971
Many men have proclaimed the death of the Catholic Church over the past two millennia. 19th century Catholicism didn't emerge until 18th century men thought they'd killed the Church. Death always comes before resurrection.

[Anonymous No.17528042]

>>17527993
What doesn't grow dies

[Anonymous No.17528049]

>>17527993
This is warfare, and the only progress is the salvation of souls. Everything else is meaningless vanity.

[Anonymous No.17528056]

>>17527953
Crazy that you would trust Don Lemon more than Saint Thomas Aquinas.

[Anonymous No.17528097]

>>17528042
>>17528049
Precisely, this is the best moment. The purest souls will find the Church despite the decay, the wicked will fall under the assumption that what isn't powerful and radiant doesn't worth the time. This is the time of the meek and the humble.

[Anonymous No.17528104]

>>17527926
non-canon

[Anonymous No.17528183]

>>17528104
Wow bro, tell what Catholic Canon justifies Bolshevism.

[Anonymous No.17528214]

>>17528041
Cringe Chesterton fan
>>17528056
Non sequitur
>>17528097
Lads, there's no coming back from Darwin.

[Anonymous No.17528306]

>>17528214
If you don't trust Saint Thomas Aquinas, you necessarily trust someone less credible than Saint Thomas Aquinas.

[Anonymous No.17528319]

>>17528306
Yup. Billions and billions of angels from the world's most credible man.

I understand everyone needs a daddy phase to get educated, but please don't show it around like this. It's not like you actually read the guy

[Anonymous No.17528364]

>>17528319
He is not the most credible man. The most credible man is Jesus Christ, who is The Word made flesh. But if you don't find Thomas Aquinas credible, necessarily you have believed someone who is less credible, whether it be Darwin, or George Carlin. Who do you trust instead of Aquinas?

[Anonymous No.17528381]

>>17527932
John Paul II in 1981
http://www.vatican.va/content/john-paul-ii/en/speeches/1981/february/documents/hf_jp-ii_spe_19810221_manila-auditorium.html

Pope Leo XIII in 1891
http://www.vatican.va/content/leo-xiii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_15051891_rerum-novarum.html

And most recently, Francis
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/deaconsbench/2013/05/pope-francis-the-lord-has-redeemed-all-of-us-even-atheists/

[Anonymous No.17528431]

>>17528364
Tommy doesn't even ask for trust, he's a philosopher. You don't judge the man, then swallow the work whole. The value of the work speaks for itself.

[Anonymous No.17528462]

>>17528381
All are redeemed. Redemption refers to the debt of guilt of sin. The debt of all has been paid. But not all make use of that redemption. Christ's blood was shed for all. That any man is not saved is due only to his own malice and negligence. The debt of their sin has been paid, but they make no use of it. While they live, they are redeemed. When they die, they fail to make use of this redemption, and so are not saved.

If you get your parking validated, but lose the ticket, you'll still have to pay.

[Anonymous No.17528496]

>>17528462
I've long thought that the crumbs/dogs passage was low-key BTFOing Calvinism. You think it's just Jewish racism but it's actually about how even the non-elect get grace, they just don't make salvific use of it. I also think the slaughter of the newly-circumcised tribe in Genesis is about eternal vs. temporal punishment

[Anonymous No.17528524]

>>17528431
He's not a philosopher. He was principally a contemplative. He spent most of his time praying. He wrote his books by command of his superiors. All claims of any kind rely on the authority of the speaker or writer, for no man has the capacity to verify the claims to their fullest degree. As is explained in Aristotle's Prior Analytics, inductive reasoning is only truly valid if all particulars are given, and by a conversion of deductive reasoning the inductive conclusion is reached. Since all general principles rely on inductive reasoning, and in no case can all examples be given in such a way to prevent any contentious refutation, then all inductive reasoning relies on a leap of faith. Further, man is not perfectly reasonable. His emotions and attachments frequently cloud his reasoning, and his limited knowledge mean it is easy for him to make mistakes of fact even when his reason is unclouded. Therefore, no man alone could ever speak perfectly truly, and the more a man is subject to his passions, the less reliable he becomes. No work speaks for itself.

[Anonymous No.17528616]

>>17526652
Lies, lies, lies.
>Above all else, it must be firmly believed that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door.77 This doctrine must not be set against the universal salvific will of God (cf. 1 Tim 2:4);it is necessary to keep these two truths together, namely, the real possibility of salvation in Christ for all mankind and the necessity of the Church for this salvation. 78
Declaration Dominus Iesus, Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, year 2000

[Anonymous No.17528649]

>>17528524
tl;dr but nothing a priori depends on anyone's credibility

[Anonymous No.17528678]

>>17528649
>dr
That seems to be the problem. Name one truly a priori idea you've encountered in life. Have you ever thought anything which was not drawn from your experience, or influenced by what someone else had told you?

[Anonymous No.17529068]

>>17528462
Would you care to address all of them?

>>17528616
> lies

> “On the contrary, the Lord has created us in His image and likeness, and has given us this commandment in our heart: Do good and do not do evil. The Lord has redeemed all of us, all of us, with the Blood of Christ: all of us, not just Catholics. Everyone! ‘Father, what about the atheists?’ Even the atheists. Everyone! And this Blood makes us first class children of God! We are created children in the likeness of God and the Blood of Christ has redeemed us all! And we all have a duty to do good. And this commandment for everyone to do good, I think, is a beautiful path towards peace. If we, with everyone doing his own part; if we do good to others, if we meet there, doing good, and we go slowly, gently, little by little, we will make that culture of meeting: we need that so much. We must meet one another doing good. ‘But I don’t believe, Father, I am an atheist!’ But do good! We shall meet there.”

That is a direct quote from Francis and note how he is implying the atheist is already speaking with the Father. In another passage, he specifically mentions salvation and then says God’s mercy has no limits “if he who asks for mercy does so in contrition and with a sincere heart.” and says the issue for atheists is following their consciousness and Catholics have just brushed it off by saying the first part was just so obviously talking about believers. Not at all obvious to me.

[Anonymous No.17529202]

>>17529068
My answer answered all of these challenges, because the misunderstanding is the same. In each of these cases, the word used is redeem. God redeemed all. Salvation is open to all. Here Francis is not telling the atheist they will be saved if they remain an atheist. Rather, he is telling the atheist that he still has a responsibility to do good. And he is promising, in a way the atheist doesn't understand, that if the atheist follows this imperative, God will meet him in the way and his unbelief will be changed to belief. In this also, he is subtly exhorting and rebuking so many Christians, who are under an even greater obligation to do good, that those who do not believe will never believe unless we go out and lead them in the doing of good. If Christians continue to do bad, then atheists will continue to point at those bad Christians and say "look, look--it is not a religion of good, but a religion of bad." If you understand the meaning of contrition, of course if an atheist has a true and sincere contrition and asks for mercy, that mercy will be given to him, and that mercy will be faith. God wants to give faith always, and He will never deny someone such a request if it is genuine. So if a man asks for faith and does not receive it, it can only because we was not sincere in his asking. God pours out his grace on all and desires all to be saved. If an atheist learns to follow their conscience, God will lead them to faith, he will give them a compunction for their sins. Nowhere has he said that following their conscience is sufficient for salvation, or that atheists will be saved just for doing good; rather, recognizing the human problems of our world, he is simply doing what he can to encourage people to get moving. For the only man who is certain of damnation is the man who never begins on his path.

[Anonymous No.17529406]

>>17520442
the teleology of calvinism is the justification of Calvin's usury, if you want to know the end result of that read Barren Metal

[Anonymous No.17529761]

>>17525373
circumcision is human sacrifice

[Anonymous No.17529780]

>>17526126
ethiopia has been christian longer than most of europe, bro. if anything they're closer to the original form of the religion (at least as far as orthodoxy is concerned, gnosticism is a different story)

[Anonymous No.17529980]

>>17519450
>I've always wondered how they feel about people in the West getting into Orthodoxy
They usually smirk and feel all smug as if them being right were more important than a stranger finding God.
The average person in Serbia claims to be Orthodox because "that's what Serbs are". They have no idea about Christianity or other denominations and they dismiss everything immediately as false because they've been told to. Even when I say something good about Catholics or Protestants or if I state a simple fucking fact about them, undeniable truth, my dad for example simply snigger and says I shouldn't be led astray by false prophets. Orthodoxy is a tribal religion and it's pitched to even higher levels of tribalism in the Balkans.

[Anonymous No.17530029]

>>17529980
>>17522513

This is what I am talking about. It’s hard to deny a deep-rooted regionalism in Orthodoxy.

[Anonymous No.17530031]

>>17519450
First slot all, Russians, Greeks, and Balkans are not the only “actual Orthos” but regardless, I’ve known several Russian Orthodox and they don’t think anything. They are just happy to see people coming to Christ and to the Orthodox faith. You are also off the mark about why people turn to Orthodoxy. I am a former Catholic myself, went to Catholic school from pre-school through college, altar boy, friends and family in clergy, nuns, the whole lot.

[Anonymous No.17530041]

>>17523940
No, they’re not poser.

[Anonymous No.17530047]

>>17530029
I think you should stop letting anonymous “anecdotes” affirm you pre-conceived notions.

[Anonymous No.17530064]

>>17530029
I've spent years struggling with God in my mind and I still have no idea what to do and where to go and whenever I feel myself inching towards relief a sense of treason checks me and I crawl back to square one not to offend my family and people.

[Anonymous No.17530208]

>tfw Scotist
Feels good

[Anonymous No.17530224]

>>17530208
>how to be "that guy" 101

[Anonymous No.17530319]

>>17529068
I gave you a quote already denying whatever mischievous understanding you can have from the words of Francis.
>""UHH BUT LOOK WHAT'S SAYING BETWEEN WORDS'
No.