/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17497684]

Tradcath converts absolutely, irrefutably BTFO

[Anonymous No.17497689]

>>17497684
Didnt read

[Anonymous No.17497700]

>>17497684
Is this actually true? Does he never make any criticisms?

[Anonymous No.17497723]

>>17497684
How dare Chesterton feel any enthusiasm for his religion.

[Anonymous No.17497726]

>>17497684
Good thing i'm a craddle cath

[Anonymous No.17497855]

>>17497684
The problem with tradcaths and especially ango tradcaths is that they experience faith primarily aesthetically. They are amazed at the bells and whistles and all of that is fine but this is just the introductory step to the real things where things get real tough. A tradcath does not understand what the Dark Night of the Soul is, he views it as some sort of Kierkegaardian despair, he philosophizes, existentializes, aestheticizes the thing as some particularly hard philosophical or mystical bump on an inevitable journey to victory. But in reality it as a thing as real as unbearable sickness or throbbing headache that almost never stops, it prevents a detached aestheticization of the fact, it is right there and you aren't coping with it, rather it simply is what you are at that point. Tradcaths are like a baby just making the first steps, they do not realize the disillusionment, pain, suffering, defeat, radical doubt, crisis, banality, or the tragic comedy that awaits them if they persevere. If they did know it, they probably wouldn't sign up in the first place and that is the same reason why most will fall away or stay at the level of aesthetics, the real thing brings upon your shoulders the Cross which's weight is counted in your abandonment by the world. The victory isn't in the glory of transcendence or detachment, the victory is in being beaten to a bloody pulp, psychologically defeated, driven to total abandonment and in that pitiful condition saying yes to God regardless. But there is no reward for that even in this life outside of the knowledge and experience about the world and the opportunity to bring yourself closer to God. This isn't some kind of moment of gnostic discovery and happiness either, it is only something to experience for those who can bear it. The end result transcends the happy/sad or good/bad dichotomy, it is simply what is the case.

[Anonymous No.17497944]

>>17497684
Etienne Gilson, who surely forgot more about Thomism than Adam Gopnik ever knew, praised Chesterton's (admittedly auto-didactic) insights on the subject.

Moreover, unless Gopnik has lately converted to Catholicism, I really don't see where he's in any position to comment on GKC's enthusiasm for the Catholic Church.

Finally, Gopnik's claim that Chesterton "writing about the Church is like someone who has just made his first trip to the post office," is a silly, tortured comparison. It reaches to absurdity when he stretches it to encompass American post office gun massacres??

[Anonymous No.17497955]

>>17497855
The dark night of the soul is a term which originated in describing mystics, almost nobody really knows what that experience is like, it's the long period of misery, confusion, and doubt that follows a mystic ecstasy. This is not something most people of any religion go through, it has nothing to do with 'tradcaths' or 'anglo tradcaths' or whatever.

Do some people use this stuff for aesthetic? Yes of course they do, but genuine religious feeling is still very widespread, most people have inclinations towards at least some spiritual dimension. If for some people the Catholic church seems closer to whatever they feel inside of them(and how are they supposed to even know before trying?) there is no point attacking them for this, and considering the average state of whatever Protestant denomination that might exist near them it's not surprising they wouldn't look there for guidance.

I'm not a Catholic btw and from where I'm standing the Church looks pretty flawed, but there is at least some continuity with a deeper and actually Christian religious tradition there. Some 20 year old kid who larps as 'tradcath' for an aesthetic is going to give it up in a year or two anyway when he finds some other meme identity he likes better.

[Anonymous No.17497970]

I'm going to become a tradpostal instead of a tradcath

[Anonymous No.17497974]

>>17497684
Good thing I was born into it I guess.

[Anonymous No.17497989]

>>17497970
But can you recite the United States Postal Service creed in Latin?

[Anonymous No.17498035]

>>17497684
It's obvious that your average convert will have more zeal and enthusiasm than your average cradle Catholic - but that zeal works against the institutional wrongs in the Church just as well as against wrongs that lie outside of it. Speaking as a convert myself, it's often converts who are unafraid to take on issues like sexual abuse in the Church, and any kind of actually wrong clericalism (not the liberal "wah wah my priest told me that what I'm doing is wrong"). Can't speak for Chesterton, but the tendency for zeal is always a mark in favor of whatever religion is converted to - 0 respect for a religion whose converts are immediately milquetoast.