Spengler on child-less women

[Anonymous No.17479420]

>When the ordinary thought of a highly cultivated people begins to regard "having children" as a question of pro's and con's, the great turning-point has come. For Nature knows nothing of pro and con. Everywhere, wherever life is actual, reigns an inward organic logic, an "it," a drive, that is utterly independent of waking-being, with its causal linkages, and indeed not even observed by it. The abundant proliferation of primitive peoples is a natural phenomenon, which is not even thought about, still less judged as to its utility or the reverse.
>When reasons have to be put forward at all in a question of life, life itself has become questionable. At that point begins prudent limitation of the number of births. In the Classical world the practice was deplored by Polybius as the ruin of Greece, and yet even at his date it had long been established in great cities; in subsequent Roman times it became appallingly general.
-cont.

[Anonymous No.17479423]

>At first explained by the economic misery of the times, very soon it ceased to explain itself at all. And at that point, too, in Buddhist India as in Babylon, in Rome as in our own cities, a man's choice of the woman who is to be, not mother of his children as amongst peasants and primitives, but his own "companion for life," becomes a problem of mentalities. The Ibsen marriage appears, the "higher spiritual affinity" in which both parties are "free"--free, that is, as intelligences, free from the plantlike urge of the blood to continue itself, and it becomes possible for a Shaw to say "that unless Woman repudiates her womanliness, her duty to her husband, to her children, to society, to the law, and to everyone but herself, she cannot emancipate herself."
>The primary woman, the peasant woman, is mother. The whole vocation towards which she has yearned from childhood is included in that one word. But now emerges the Ibsen woman, the comrade, the heroine of a whole megalopolitan literature from Northern drama to Parisian novel. Instead of children, she has soul-conflicts; marriage is a craft-art for the achievement of "mutual understanding". It is all the same whether the case against children is the American lady's who would not miss a season for anything, or the Parisienne's who fears that her lover would leave her, or an Ibsen heroine's who "belongs to herself"--they all belong to themselves and they are all unfruitful.

[Anonymous No.17479425]

>The same fact, in conjunction with the same arguments, is to be found in the Alexandrian, in the Roman, and, as a matter of course, in every other civilized society--and conspicuously in that in which Buddha grew up. And in Hellenism and in the nineteenth century, as in the times of Lao-Tzu and the Charvaka doctrine, there is an ethic for childless intelligences, and a literature about the inner conflicts of Nora and Nana. The "quiverful," which was still an honourable enough spectacle in the days of Werther, becomes something rather provincial. The father of many children is for the great city a subject for caricature; Ibsen did not fail to note it, and presented it in his Love's Comedy.

[Anonymous No.17479427]

>>17479420
>you need to have children because........ you just have to okay?

[Anonymous No.17479431]

>>17479427
>At this level all Civilizations enter upon a stage, which lasts for centuries, of appalling depopulation. The whole pyramid of cultural man vanishes. It crumbles from the summit, first the world-cities, then the provincial forms, and finally the land itself, whose best blood has incontinently poured into the towns, merely to bolster them up awhile. At the last, only the primitive blood remains, alive, but robbed of its strongest and most promising elements. This residue is the Fellah type (You)

[Anonymous No.17479434]

[Anonymous No.17479440]

>>17479420
>Spengler on child-less women
Why would you read the opinion of a fucking virgin on the matter of procreation, family unit and sexuality?
Someone should have told this bald faggot to go live in the woods like a monke if circlejerk around nature this much. If animals don't question procreation, they also don't write books.

[Anonymous No.17479489]

>>17479440
Honestly this, they are not really comparable. Some animals leave their young to survive on their own, when a human tries to do that the society goes into uproar.
And then there is some animals that eat their young under certain conditions.
It's better to have humans use their brains and make a conscious decision not to have children in the first place, than to do something terrible in affect later.

[Anonymous No.17479499]

>>17479434
The people in the bottom didn't advocate for not having children and they didn't resent existence. The point isn't that it would be preferable to not exist. Good quotes though.

[Anonymous No.17479502]

>>17479434
>life is bad

[Anonymous No.17479503]

>>17479499
>The point isn't that it would be preferable to not exist.
That is quite literally what they're saying.

[Anonymous No.17479508]

>>17479499
Based illiterate...

[Anonymous No.17479516]

>>17479503
That's what they're saying. Antinatalism is a lot more than that claim.

[Anonymous No.17479521]

Having kids is a decision now because people have reliable birth control and the practical reasons for having children have been mostly dismantled by social and technological change. Wen people have kids, it's mostly because they are following social norms or fulfilling a sentimental vision they have been taught by their culture which they believe will fulfill them (not that they are wrong per se). This was the case in the past too, but the difference is these cultural ideas have lost the context they came, when children were a necessity and an inevitability of life, and don't hold the same weight anymore. The result is factions who double down on trying to preserve the natural in an increasingly unnatural world, and also autistic shit like antinatalism.

[Anonymous No.17479531]

>>17479440
He had a wife.

[Anonymous No.17479544]

>>17479521
Didn't the romans have some special plant that they used as birth control?

[Anonymous No.17479552]

>>17479420

[Anonymous No.17479554]

>>17479544
birth control has always existed, just never as reliably

[Anonymous No.17479555]

[Anonymous No.17479558]

>>17479434
>life isn't actually bad bro, just keep perpetuating suffering bro
Literally cope

[Anonymous No.17479561]

>>17479544
Promortalism or Nonexistence>existence is a Greek philosophy.

>"You, most blessed and happiest among humans, may well consider those blessed and happiest who have departed this life before you, and thus you may consider it unlawful, indeed blasphemous, to speak anything ill or false of them, since they now have been transformed into a better and more refined nature. This thought is indeed so old that the one who first uttered it is no longer known; it has been passed down to us from eternity, and hence doubtless it is true. Moreover, you know what is so often said and passes for a trite expression. What is that, he asked? He answered: It is best not to be born at all; and next to that, it is better to die than to live; and this is confirmed even by divine testimony. Pertinently to this they say that Midas, after hunting, asked his captive Silenus somewhat urgently, what was the most desirable thing among humankind. At first he could offer no response, and was obstinately silent. At length, when Midas would not stop plaguing him, he erupted with these words, though very unwillingly: 'you, seed of an evil genius and precarious offspring of hard fortune, whose life is but for a day, why do you compel me to tell you those things of which it is better you should remain ignorant? For he lives with the least worry who knows not his misfortune; but for humans, the best for them is not to be born at all, not to partake of nature's excellence; not to be is best, for both sexes. This should be our choice, if choice we have; and the next to this is, when we are born, to die as soon as we can.' It is plain therefore, that he declared the condition of the dead to be better than that of the living."

– Aristotle, Eudemus (354 BCE)

[Anonymous No.17479566]

>>17479558
Misunderstand the pic?

[Anonymous No.17479616]

>>17479420
bold words from a man

[Anonymous No.17479620]

>>17479558
Antinatalists think death is bad though

[Anonymous No.17479623]

>>17479558
You shouldn't reproduce, indeed, but people who are happy and possess good genes should

[Anonymous No.17479655]

>>17479555
very insightful, saved

[Anonymous No.17479660]

>>17479620
No, they consider death with a prolonged period of suffering and pain a bad death. Antinatalists favour euthanasia.

[Anonymous No.17479666]

>>17479623
>who are happy
"are happy" is one of the biggest lie on this planet.

[Anonymous No.17479667]

>>17479666
ok satan

[Anonymous No.17479673]

>>17479660
Then why don't euthanize themselves or generally support painless suicide (or even euthanasia of others with or without their consent)?

[Anonymous No.17479674]

>>17479667
even if you believe in biblical narrative, the ancestors ate the fruit and now humanity is in a fall. life on earth is punishment for the sin brother.

[Anonymous No.17479686]

>>17479420
beta cuks and their obsession with women being mothers and men providing for the mom and her kids...

This is why i like feminists: they dont want men to provide for them

[Anonymous No.17479692]

>>17479673
>Then why don't euthanize themselves
It's illegal.
>or even euthanasia of others with or without their consent)?
>without their consent
are you retarded? consent is a crucial point for anitnatlist.

[Anonymous No.17479694]

I'm an anti-natalist, this is why I will commit genocide on a scale larger than a human mind can conceive

[Anonymous No.17479695]

>>17479686
>This is why i like feminists: they dont want men to provide for them
>he thinks modern feminism is about independence and not the subjugation of men
>he thinks modern feminism isn't above the involuntary servitude of men for women
Confirmed female, genus, likely pig.

[Anonymous No.17479697]

To all the SEETHERS:
>plantlike
>fellah type
>waking-being(i assume this is the translation for "wachsein")
are terminology idiosyncratically used by Spengler that you might just gloss over and not pay specific attention to.
If that is the case you can only attribute your seething to your own ignorance. If you get "angry" at what Spengler is saying here, you do not understand why he is saying this and for what context.

>>17479440
>>17479686
>>17479489
>>17479521
>>17479616
NONE of you ever read the book and are a perfect proof of what Spengler is writing about here.
How arrogant And retarded do you have to be to feel like you are worthy of giving your two cents opinion on a complex philosophical system that you have never actually engaged in properly?
It is instantly noticeable that from your posts that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Stop derailing every Spengler thread for some small dick reasons.

>>17479420
The most interesting aspect of all this to me is the historical examples he employs for this where he points to many instances where laws were enacted in the rgeatest empire either encouraging childrearing or more common punishing childless people and the common trend of childlessness in Both women and men being a ubiquitous fact in these civlizations. It really isnt even necessary to look at the 1920s and 30s in England and Germany to see this unconscious anti-natalism being the natural phenomenon for the european faustian. His extrapolation on the city caste vs the bucolic is also fantastic when one takes into regard again the birth decline:
>Latifundia perdidere Italiam, jam, vero et provincias
To not just understand but see this mentality (as he stated) as being wrong, and now understood with italiam being the city and provincias the breadbasket regions, is fantastic and an essential aspect imo to forming the holsitic picture of the current (and typical) decline.

[Anonymous No.17479709]

>>17479697
fuck you those quote are pretty straight forward.
anyone who indulge in "system" faggotory should be dismissed discarded immediately.

[Anonymous No.17479724]

>>17479697
What does fellah type and waking-being mean?

[Anonymous No.17479744]

I don't want to bring kids into this world unless they have good genetics. I'm only 5'9" (male), so I'd need to mate with a taller woman than me, especially if I wanted a taller son. I don't want to bring someone into this world if they're going to have it worse than I did, because my childhood was a nightmare with bullying and stuff.

I'm rambling and nobody cares, but I rarely see people talk about this. I always see ugly, short people procreate and I feel bad for their offspring.

[Anonymous No.17479756]

>>17479744
There's no way you were bullied for being 5'9, it's not even below average
Where the fuck did you live?

[Anonymous No.17479792]

>>17479756
Haha nah I wasn't bullied for being 5'9". I guess I was just bullied for the way I looked (scrawny, goofy looking). Just meant if I at least grew up to be 6'4" or something, that bullying would have been worth since I came out the other end a chad. I live in Australia.

[Anonymous No.17479823]

>>17479724
i appreciate your sincerity in asking, but their explanations rely on a great context to be fully fleshed out and understood.
>fellah
is from the egyptian people that are considered to be the TRUE egyptians, the descendants of the egyptians king's people form +4000 years ago. They are almost entirely farmers and lived in the country before the great urbanisation that happened in egypt in the 20th century.
They are considered to be the Opposite of "waking-being". Spengler differentiates "Waking-being" from the more plantlike "Being" ("Dasein", his Dasein not Heideggers or Hegels). Being to him always comes first. It is inherent not jsut in plants but also in animals and even in man. Man has also the faculty of thought which Can make him waking-being. This waking being makes him beleive that his thoughts comes before his being "Dasein". Spengler consideres the natural progression every culture goes through from the chinks, indians, magians, egyptians, ancients etc. so there is nothing (as there almost never is) unique to the faustian man from the other cultures.
Spengler states a culture goes from:
>Urvolk, its Ur-people (Dasein) >culture (Dasein into Wachsein) >civilization (Wachsein)
to
>fellah-civilization (Dasein)
These true egyptian people have gone their historical course through their great culutral period and their greatest civilization's Caesers and have returned to their plantlike fellah-state; the culture has run its course and only exists as it now is found. Better examples are india or China where for example in China i know for sure Metaphysics is considered "solved" and for Spengler the entire people rely on their cultural period (600 BC~100AD) and are now as a surviving civilization only in the fellah-state 200 years after their Beethovens, Wagners, Goethes have died. China has run its course as a culture and civilization (even modern CCP China is no revival but still only plant-like; imo this is an interesting topic since China is pseudomorphizing (spenglerian term and understanding) very much with the faustian culture and spirit).

It is really necessary to read this in the greater context of the overall work (1.2k pages) where examples from history and a slow acucmulation of notions and ideas make these concepts incredibly coherent where for example the seething of the retards itt fit perfectly into their "Zeitgeist" and "Ortgeist" (if that term existed). As I stated above all this has happened before (Spengler even mentions Nietzsche's Ewige-Wiederkehr) it is only necessary to see how each culture takes the material of its own to give shape to its form that previous or other cultures have done before ("Die Vernunft findet Fleisch von ihrem Fleisch und Blut von ihrem Blut"). It is a fantastic notion to consider different cultures coexisting but who are in total different developmental stages (China, India vs Magian vs Faustian).
Read the work if you really want to understand and dont become a retard like those itt.

[Anonymous No.17479848]

>>17479792
Just growing tall wouldn't make you a chad, it's entire appearance plus the attitude. William Hope Hodgson was bullied as a young sailor, because he was short and had a pretty face. To save himself from beatings he learned to fight back, developed his own program for training, and became a formidable fighter in hand-to-hand combat.
Later on he was not only a praised writer, but also a war hero, though the war took his life.

[Anonymous No.17479856]

>>17479744
>>17479792
Can you fuck off with your off topic blog post tier reply?
Go to >>>/r9k/ with such retarded drivel.
Either discuss the author/the mentioned text by actually addressing it or dont reply, you manlet mutt.

[Anonymous No.17479857]

>tfw nearly every major life decision I've taken regarded as a question of pros and cons
Damn....

[Anonymous No.17479863]

>>17479856
k I'll fuck off. Bye.

[Anonymous No.17479865]

>>17479555
>The female do, which I will refer to as the "bitch" from this point...
yikes, stopped reading.

[Anonymous No.17479866]

If antinatalists had a sense of responsibility instead of being mere perpetually weeping mopers, they would launch political movements in favour of mass sterilization and euthanasia campaigns.

Because this would require them to have a spine in the face of public condemnation and do something other than resent, they do not.

[Anonymous No.17479870]

>>17479848
gigachad

[Anonymous No.17479890]

>>17479866
are you retarded?
This is not an anti-natalist thread you degenerate moron.
How do you all fail reading comprehension so badly?

[Anonymous No.17479899]

>>17479823
Not that anon.

Tell me, you seem to be a fully converted Spenglerite, just how far do you actually believe in his theory? What are its applications as to both how you view amdinteract with the world?

I've read the decline of the west and, as much as I regard it as a great intellectual feat, I struggle to see its modern relevance, either as a predictor, or a general metaphysical belief system; especially in light of seemingly being dead wrong in various assertions, principally Darwinistic evolution..

[Anonymous No.17479963]

>>17479420
>When reasons have to be put forward at all in a question of life, life itself has become questionable.

Yes, and that is a good thing. Amen.

[Anonymous No.17480060]

>>17479686
you're either a broke faggot or a retarded woman

[Anonymous No.17480071]

>>17479686
>they dont want men to provide for them
Only the female separatists actually want that

[Anonymous No.17480083]

>>17479420
How does he do it, bros? Whenever he's right about something he's so right it's insane. He's literally irrefutable

[Anonymous No.17480091]

>>17479756
You could definitely be bullied a bit for that in like Germany or Netherlands, average guy there is 6'. I think there are a couple European countries where it's even 6'1 or almost 6'2

[Anonymous No.17480224]

>>17479899
I approach Spengler's thought always as a returning point for understanding other concepts and notions (though I dislike the notion that this way of philosophizing is "forming a Weltanschauung" instead of the kantian "Kritizismus").
> both how you view amdinteract with the world?
for example i take interest in the conception of technology in the notion of Ellul and how it is of the faustian mind but has taken the whole planet hostage forcing most older and non contiguous cultures to pseudomorphize their civilizations to adopt to this. This allows the notion of technology as found in Ellul to be further developed than just the main characteristics he gave it (autonomous, self augmentizing, etc.)
According to Spengler the faustian culture was already in decline in the 18th century exactly the time the industrial revolution started in britain and by the time of napoleon this new form had great impact and by the latter half of the 19th century it had taken control of all of the faustian region with factories, rail roads, steam ships, printing press, etc.
This technology that spread all across the globe is strictly of faustian origin and of the faustian mind (as it is different from the others) and therefore these other cultures have become the bearers or hosts to keep western civilization (in its civilization period) alive completely separate from the faustian man in his plant like being. Spengler mentions how Japan first was taken over by chinese culture but then became an american nation. It has completely lost the aspect of itself that would allow its own culture to take its course but exists only to host this foreign civilization IN its Absence (western civilization, perhaps even its culture, surviving through foreign civilizations). Russian communism wasn't russian, it was western imposed on Russians (an idea he developed greatly and why he claims Russia will be the place of the third independant christian development starting from 2000-2500; almost scarily accurate this prediction); same has to be said of China; there is no communism with chinese characteristics there is only the western ideology superimposed on the chinese that only revolutions can cast off to return China to its own independant being (China is the most western it has ever been in its current state and only continuing to become so, eventhough its people lack the aspects of the "Blut und Boden" that Spengler elaborated on are necessary for the culture and civilization to always have to fall back on as it is the antecedant for the hyperrationalizing "Wachsein").
I perceive such considerations essential to further understanding kantian epistemology, anti-technology sentiments, a public relation's perception of society and its politics, etc.
There is certainly more niche ways to use Spengler's ideas that relate to the contemporary regarding your eprsonal interests.
(cont.)

[Anonymous No.17480234]

>>17480224
> especially in light of seemingly being dead wrong in various assertions, principally Darwinistic evolution..
let's remember he is always trying to make the reader understand his ideas. When he writes a fixed date for a turning point, or a historical event or work as only being interpreted in one way he wants to highlight the idea this serves to illustrate more than the thing on its own. With this in mind I think you will find very little he is wrong about. (especially if you understand his work as metaphysical belief system, where everything can somehow be squared off)

[Anonymous No.17480263]

>>17480234
I have to also say I find great inspiration in his Weltanschauung.
The section 15 ("Verhätnis zur heutigen Philosophie") in the introduction had great impact on me and is how I approach philosophy in respect to the world.
I recommend that to anyone to read even if you have 0 interest in Spengler, jsut to be reminded of challenges to your sheltered academic perception of philosophy that are not of philosophically philistine origin or motivation

[Anonymous No.17480487]

>>17479521
We are told that the world is becoming overpopulated, whilst simultaneously being told that the rapidly ageing populations in developed nations need mass immigration to prop up declining birthrates and sustain a population of "working-age" individuals to pay for the pensions of the elderly.

Mass immigration is nothing but a stopgap begging for a real solution. There are two possible outcomes for the immigrant population within 2 or 3 generations of making landfall.
It is a matter of whether or not the immigrant (individual or community) assimilates to the host country. The question of cultural assimilation here is not important. The implicit reason why governments allow people to immigrate is, as stated above, to increase the working-age population. Whether or not they assimilate "culturally" is immaterial. Whether or not they assimilate economically - that is, whether or not they work and pay taxes - is what matters.
If in one eventuality, they do assimilate, they subject themselves to the same economic pressures against childbearing as caused a decline in the native population. As such the problem has not been solved and the can has merely been kicked down the road.
If in the other eventuality, they do not assimilate, then they become a burden on the state, through reliance on welfare potentially supplemented by untaxed, illegal activity. Rather than just kicking the can down the road, they immediately worsen the problem.

If you do not believe that declining birth rates in developed countries are due to economic pressures, but are instead the result of cultural shifts and changing personal values, then it is untenable that you should judge this change in norms neutrally, or even positively. If cultural values are responsible for declining birthrates, then they are at fault for luring the population into an unsustainable situation. You are, in such a case, adhering to values which if allowed to naturally run their course, would extinguish the population in which such values are held. You have chosen a life of mod-cons and luxuries over a life of family and community, a life dependent on the energy of fossil fuels and the exploitation of third world labour, and you have chosen a life of debt, servitude and wage slavery as the price for such a dire decision.

[Anonymous No.17480639]

>>17480224
See this is, as a basic materialist, is where I struggle with understanding him.

If Japan in his example, and most of the rest of the worlds countries outside the west, now are hosting, as surrogates, Faustian civilisation, how are they able? These technology's are western, written in western languages, impregnated with western connotations of mathematics; how are they able to effectively utilise them in a manner of equal efficacy as the westerners who were these things' progenitors?

I read most of DotW biting my tongue regarding technological progression; if technics are to be measured against the capacity to influence actuality (as Spengler says right at the end) then why are cultural mindsets to be regarded as the prime motor of historical change? Rather than vulgar technology?

I think Spengler didn't credit the industrial revolution enough; didn't draw enough of a distinction over the fundamentally world changing aspect of the event, but rather treating as a simple 'aspect' of the west, no different than a separate culture's varied progression.
This is also when he discusses depopulation, likening former depopulations, say, of Rome, to modern declines in fertility, when the motive of these two separate events are entirely different , yet because they are simply both events of 'depopulation' he triumphantly declares them the same in a cyclical phase.

Anyway, fundamentally:
If technics are measured by actuality, and any culture may use preexisting technics, why is this not the measuring stick? If one culture advances, declines, yet another holds onto their technic ability, then they can go on and, perhaps, leave these carried over technics to another progressive culture, who could carry on the technology.

[Anonymous No.17480677]

>>17479666
Antinatalists are unbearably pathetic in that they are so narcissistic and self-centred that they cannot conceive of someone experiencing life in a different manner than them. Then again if you were sincere you’d commit suicide, but you aren’t sincere, antinatalists are using apathetic depressiveness as an excuse for why they’re very mature and well adjusted for dodging the responsibility of parenthood in favour of a life of pleasure, and that pursuit of pleasure at the centre of their life is why they will never be happy, because pleasure alone is hollow.

[Anonymous No.17480758]

>>17480677
Seethe.

[Anonymous No.17480761]

>>17479686
>look im famous i have a globe award!!!: im unique and incredible. what is a child in front of this?.

[Anonymous No.17480763]

>>17480487
Modern technology, based on things like gene-editing, vulgar eugenics, automation and the increasingly unimportant REAL effect base consumer consumption has on the underlying economic motors shall render large populations not just unnecessary, but an active hindrance on a states power.

Migration of working age immigrants (which do on average pay more taxes than they take out) IS kicking the can down the road, but there is a light at the end of the road that shall remove the issue of the can altogether; the question is, can we get there?

I don't particularly disagree with your cultural objections, but the states we live in have never existed to foster the types of culture that is agreeable to its citizens; its objective is to protect itself from outside states.

If possession of a large population isn't needed for that, than the state wont have one, simple as that.

[Anonymous No.17480791]

>>17480758
Not very compassionate of you. I thought anti-natalist want to prevent suffering, and yet here you are trying to make people mad for an ego trip.

[Anonymous No.17480980]

based

[Anonymous No.17481102]

>>17480763
>Migration of working age immigrants (which do on average pay more taxes than they take out)
You have to be kidding me.

[Anonymous No.17481140]

>>17481102
Statistics frend

working class immigrants are just a veil to throw over the high IQ immigrants from places like india.

[Anonymous No.17481155]

>>17479866
Based
>>17479890
Triggered

[Anonymous No.17481162]

>>17480677
Correct and concise.

[Anonymous No.17481216]

>The natural process and desire for procreation should be questioned.
The natural process and desire for breathing, eating and drinking should be hedonistically pursued to your heart's content without questioning.

Wut

[Anonymous No.17481263]

Accidental pregnancies are the only legitimate form of pregnancy because Spengler doesn't believe in contraception

[Anonymous No.17481323]

>>17481140
No idea where you'Re from but the statistics for europe clearly say that the majority of gibsmedats goes to non-natives and all our prisons ae nearly 80% habited by immigrants. The absolute minority of them actually work, and even less of those pay taxes. Like how many "used handy shops" and kebab shops do you think can stay afload? Well, we have streets with three of each going strong with rarely any customer going in.

Maybe you should stop believing make-believe "statistics". The only working immigrants come from fellow european countries - romania excluded.

[Anonymous No.17481352]

>>17481323
>Majority of A is also B
>Therefore majority of B must be A

Nice logic friendo

[Anonymous No.17481372]

ITT ugly cope.
You're right that you shouldn't breed ugos, just stop pretending that your a philosopher king for doing so. Mmmmkay?

[Anonymous No.17481442]

>>17481323
> Like how many "used handy shops" and kebab shops do you think can stay afload?
I live in France, I've briefly met or exchanged with more than a hundred engineer and tech professionals, most of them under 30. They're not an uncommon sight in stem universities, far from that.
>inb4 they'll end up unemployed anyway
Perhaps, and probably so will I, but that's a different question entirely.

[Anonymous No.17481471]

>>17481442
>professional immigrants translate to all immigrants
Anon, I know shocking, but the average middle eastern guy isn't a physician and rocket scientist. Those which are come over because for them it's free as they never had to pay taxes which go for free education over here. Same why americans and asians love to study here and than FUCK BACK OFF taking all the european investment to their home countries.

Don't be so naive as to think that those immigrants represent the average Mehmet or Thyron.

[Anonymous No.17481490]

>>17480083
He's wrong though.

[Anonymous No.17481556]

>>17481471
>Anon, I know shocking, but the average middle eastern guy isn't a physician and rocket scientist.
Neither is the average native, but that was not my point.
How do I keep meeting so many North African in French conferences and professional settings? Keep in mind I must have met over 20% of the French academic statistical community by this point (being conservative) plus a solid chunk of several related technical and engineering communities. Clearly the prevalence of Arabs in those circles is not merely anecdotal. How do you square that with your
> "used handy shops" and kebab shops do you think can stay afload?
which suggest the only Arabs who work work at low level consumer jobs? That stereotype was perhaps accurate 20 years ago, now it misses a big part of the picture.

>Same why americans and asians love to study here and than FUCK BACK OFF taking all the european investment to their home countries.
Except the guy I described overwhelming stay in France most of their careers.

[Anonymous No.17481585]

>>17481471
Forgot
>Don't be so naive as to think that those immigrants represent the average Mehmet or Thyron.
Those immigrants are much more educated than the average French so of course they don't represent the average immigrants. But your post >>17481323 was not about the average, but about the near-totality. I'm telling you, from experience, highly educated North African immigrants are not only increasingly common, they're starting to become a non-negligible part of the overall scientific community, and since the overall scientific community in France is large, this means they also represent a far from negligible part of the immigrants community. This is pretty simple.

Also Tyrone isn't a stereotypical name for black people in France, neither is Mehmet for Arabs. I'm starting to suspect you're just an american talking out of your ass.

[Anonymous No.17481623]

>>17481556
>works in an academic field
>wonders why all immigrants he meets are academics
Come on, anon. Don't tell m you're too dense to understand that. Last but not least, immigrant work for less than natives making them more attractive to all fields than the natives which actually requiere a working wage. Over here in germany they scream that we lack such professionals because the later expect to be actally paid something which allows them to actually rent a small flat and eat like a human. Economy 101.

>That stereotype was perhaps accurate 20 years ago, now it misses a big part of the picture.
The classical elitist, which has no idea how reality looks. You want to now how the average non euorpean immigrant works? Look no further than swedens Malmö. I heard they really put a premium on phyrotechnical professionals.

[Anonymous No.17481644]

>>17481585
>was not about the average, but about the near-totality
Yes, I was talking about majorities and you made a point about your anecdotal mini-minority. Wew. Your personal experience clearly disqualifies the actual data showing their "contribution" to their host nations.

I'm a german. Last black dude I knew was named Fridolin, which would hardly convey the message, and Mehmet, besides Emre or Bilal are just as common.

[Anonymous No.17481692]

>>17479440
>Why would you read the opinion of a fucking virgin on the matter of procreation, family unit and sexuality?

Fallacy. It matters not what he was. What he said has merit and should be considered.

[Anonymous No.17481718]

>>17479531
DId he have children?

[Anonymous No.17481801]

>>17481585
>I'm telling you, from experience

Nice, personal anecdotes and feelings are all what we need. How about statistics? Oh yeah, it's forbidden to collect ethnic stats in France.

Where I come from (Finland), immigrants consume much more than they produce and adding more will eventually collapse the welfare state. Even the left here doesn't really deny this, but they just hope that something miraculous happens before the inevitable and feel like it's our duty to wreck our system in the name of solidarity.

[Anonymous No.17482523]

>>17480224
>>17480639
How much prior reading does one need to do, before he can comfortably understand most concepts in DotW? What you guys talk about doesn't sound like sunday couch-reading

[Anonymous No.17482636]

>>17480677
We never said no one was happy. As for suicide, there's a big difference between a life worth continuing and a life worth starting. Also, what's so mature about parenthood? You're bringing people here for no reason other than to suffer and die. You think it's mature because people have told you so.

A lot of people with kids are unhappy, by the way

[Anonymous No.17482658]

>>17482523
You need at minimum Highschool calculus and rudimentary late 19th century physics understanding (concepts only), general historical knowledge and you should have seen in person a decent amount of european art (you can always look up the latter two but you are far less likely to understand what he means if you haven't experienced a lot of it yourself).
You need to understand the difference between Kant and Goethe in life but not neglect one for the other. General philosophical knowledge in the ancients is helpful as is deeper Christian knowledge in its early developments and different strands.
If you had a good general education in all fields you are best set. Dont have DotW be one of your first philosophical books.

[Anonymous No.17482666]

>>17479544
Yes they did and the plant is now extinct lol

[Anonymous No.17482671]

YOURE GONNA REGRET NOT FUCKING ME ROASTIES REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[Anonymous No.17482673]

>>17480083
So we have like 400 years of civilization left? Why are Spengler pseuds complaing that civilization will be gone by tomorrow then?

[Anonymous No.17482741]

>>17482673
>So we have like 400 years of civilization left?
no. the image shouldnt be a circle.
China/India has been a civilization since 100AD and there is no end in sight.

[Anonymous No.17482760]

>>17482673
The problem isn't civilization ending. It's its existence

[Anonymous No.17482847]

>>17481623
>all immigrants he meets are academics
The opposite, I meet immigrants (lots of them) in academic settings. I also meet immigrants in my local bakery, but that's not the point.

>immigrant work for less
Not in the academic sector, wages are controlled by decree and almost every PhD student is paid the minimum the decree allows.

>has no idea how reality looks.
So the people I met aren't real? They're perhaps holograms? Your argument is hollow and stereotypical. I live 3 min away from an important drug traffic crossroad, there are actual drug dealers living in the building across my street as I speak.

>>17481644
>anecdotal
You missed the part about how I met hundreds academics? How many actual academic statisticians do you think there are in France? Lots of them, but not enough that a few hundreds are negligible.
>mini-minority
The academic community as a whole is a minority, so is the community of people in jail, this is about representativity. You used the fact that immigrants are overreprensented in jail as an argument, why can't I use the fact that they're increasingly represented in academia?

>Your personal experience
Personal experience of seeing a good chunk of the French statistical community in national conferences where almost everyone who matters attends. When you gather 400+ academics in the same domain in the same conference room you start getting a not-too-bad idea of what the demographics look like.
Notice how you haven't provided any actual data either.

>Fridolin, which would hardly convey the message
Perhaps because your message is simplistic. Last black guy I knew was named Eugene and was a devout Christian. Hardly memetic, but perhaps representative of a trend that actually exists.

>>17481801
See above, my personal experience actually involves seeing a good deal of the community (which is not that small but not that big either), all my friend with PhDs have roughly the same experience, together we have seen perhaps a thousand academics.

>it's forbidden to collect ethnic stats in France
Then my personal experience with 400 people is the best you have. What have others anon brought so far? Just rants.
Also:
>http://www.theses.fr/#
Select a scientific discipline and enter a common Arab name in the author field and see what you get. Or just the discipline and browse.

For instance, in statistics:
>http://www.theses.fr/fr/?q=disciplines:Statistiques&fq=dateSoutenance:[1965-01-01T23:59:59Z%2BTO%2B2021-12-31T23:59:59Z]&checkedfacets=&start=0&sort=none&status=&access=&prevision=&filtrepersonne=&zone1=disciplines&val1=Statistiques&op1=AND&zone2=auteurs&val2=&op2=AND&zone3=etabSoutenances&val3=&op3=AND&zone4=dateSoutenance&val4a=&val4b=&type=avance
I get 206 theses, in 65 cases the PhD student has an obviously Arabic name. I did not include non Arabic foreign names (e.g Asians, notice how nobody ever mentions Asians? are they not immigrants?).

[Anonymous No.17482870]

>>17482847
Forgot to mention, those are theses defended in the past 20-25 years, but most are from the past 10-15 years. Was amusing to see a few former classmates in the list.

[Anonymous No.17482903]

>>17479427
you laugh but this is how i think, and i dont care what everyone else thinks, you can just go extinct desu
t. nonewhite

[Anonymous No.17482918]

>>17482903
You may think that way but your kids won't if they grow up in a Western society. You've just put off extinction by one generation.

[Anonymous No.17482942]

>>17479686
most feminists vote communism or for socialist policies, lmao

[Anonymous No.17482943]

>>17482918
>You've just put off extinction by one generation.
and thats worth it

[Anonymous No.17482956]

>>17482918
isn't heat death the ineviteble destiny of the universe anyway? there will be a last sentence to be written by human hands one day, and why do i care about any of that? i don't, and i don't even begin to wonder why, and outside of the western world and perhaps some asian countries 90% of the people think like i do and that's all i care about

[Anonymous No.17482990]

The world is overpopulated. We just need to stop the Africans from having so many kids. Desu potentially stop them from having any kids at all. Next stop is decreasing the Asian and Hispanic birth rates. Finally, we colonize other planets to give us more room to grow and so that child restrictions can be lessened. There. I fixed humanity.

[Anonymous No.17483063]

Antinatalism implies promortalism. If it's bad to come into your first birthday, it's bad to come into tomorrow.

tl;dr kys

[Anonymous No.17483077]

>>17482990
>We just need to stop the Africans from having so many kids
The brutal blackpill is that left to their own devices the groid population would be tiny. Like the chicken they owe their existence entirely to the technology of the White and Yellow men.

The Great Filter could be niggers. Not even kidding. Maybe the pro-social instincts necessary for spacefaring civilization always degenerate into pity for the uncivilizable.

[Anonymous No.17483100]

>>17479558
you first, faggot

[Anonymous No.17483136]

>>17479420
What a banal turbopleb. Freud understood these phenomena with great nuance

[Anonymous No.17483178]

>>17479420
Okay but how does Spengler reconcile this with his views of Russia as a budding high culture with the fact that, as far as I know, Russian women do actually consider this too?

[Anonymous No.17483205]

>>17479431
Kek

[Anonymous No.17483222]

I’m very suspicious of Spengler and don’t actually like his philosophy all that much but I have to admit that OP and the Spenglerfaggots are absolutely destroying the last men in this thread.

[Anonymous No.17483297]

>>17479686
>they dont want men to provide for them
Pffft! Sure, they just want your money for free, and get it usually through the government. I have no problem with independent women, but they just tend to be leeches more than independent.

[Anonymous No.17483436]

>>17479544
they used boipucci

[Anonymous No.17483837]

>>17479420
>Memegler
Nobody cares lol