/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17462857]

Pure evil

His philosophy is destroying Western civilization

[Anonymous No.17462863]

>>17462857
capitalism collapsing on itself is destroying western civilization, when all you care about is profits, you commodify humanity into pay-pigs who are living meaningless lives and know it (suicide/depression) and, people naturally go to Marx, because he uplifts people beyond corporate interests and whores of revenue

[Anonymous No.17462867]

if americans actually read him instead of going by cia john birch sensationalist propaganda nonsense we'd be in a much better position

[Anonymous No.17462868]

>>17462857
He pathologized the decline of the West.
Blame Anglos.

[Anonymous No.17462869]

>>17462857
Western civilization is built on brutal exploitation and deserves to be destroyed. Marx is based

[Anonymous No.17462871]

>>17462867
>>17462863
this.

[Anonymous No.17462876]

>>17462863
Name a centrally planned economy that works

[Anonymous No.17462881]

>>17462868
I blame them every day.
>>17462869
Faggot alert.

[Anonymous No.17462882]

>>17462876
well marxist communism for starters. read theory.

[Anonymous No.17462886]

>>17462876
If its good enough for Albert Einstein its good enough for me

[Anonymous No.17462888]

anti-establishment brainlet: things are bad because of capitalism, a central power needs to have more control over the economy
the ruling class: things are bad because of capitalism, a central power needs to have more control over the economy

[Anonymous No.17462889]

>>17462882
Read history.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17462891]

>>17462857
That’s not jesus, OP

[Anonymous No.17462892]

>>17462857
If it can be destroyed, then it ought to be destroyed.

[Anonymous No.17462894]

>>17462882
>read theory
Economics have low predictive power even compared to other social sciences, therefore "theory" is unreliable.
Now name a centrally planned economy from the actual world that works.

[Anonymous No.17462897]

>>17462891
You dumb fucking bitch
Jesus was a Communist

[Anonymous No.17462899]

>>17462888
the ruling class are corporations who like to keep the illusion of being separate from government

[Anonymous No.17462900]

>>17462892
>absolutely wreck my grandma's china cabinet

[Anonymous No.17462902]

>>17462857
>His philosophy is destroying Western civilization
Name examples

[Anonymous No.17462903]

>>17462894
China.

[Anonymous No.17462905]

>>17462857
It's cute that you think that, In any case according to Herbert Spencer the weak deserve to die.Western civilization must be weak then and racially inferior :^) otherwise how could it lose? Survival of the fittest!

[Anonymous No.17462906]

>>17462891
Would you hurry up and kill yourself?

[Anonymous No.17462907]

imagine a better future, how about instead of labor in exchange for wages, employers provide workers with shelter, food and healthcare instead

[Anonymous No.17462911]

>>17462894
they all kind of work or else theyd all be dead.

[Anonymous No.17462914]

>>17462902
His texts and philosophy have resulted in taking away guns, pro-homosexuality, anti-Americanism, and transgender rights in our country. The downfall of civilization can be traced directly to his philosophy where he invented communism.

[Anonymous No.17462916]

>>17462903
That's a mix of free market and central planning

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17462918]

>>17462906
I would much rather live to five hundred

[Anonymous No.17462919]

>>17462916
Cope harder.

[Anonymous No.17462920]

>>17462914
holy fuck this post is peak boomerism, please stay around
Marx was pro guns btw

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17462924]

I'm a tranny!

[Anonymous No.17462929]

>>17462914
Keeeeek
Fucking mutts man

[Anonymous No.17462930]

>>17462924
Yes you are. Now stop using her account.

[Anonymous No.17462933]

>>17462863
When your right to own the fruits of your own labour is protected, you become responsible for your own well-being and that of the people you love. This leads to meaning.
When you blame the rich for your own misfortune and abdicate your responsability to the collective, you become a slave.
>>17462867
No-one actually reads him because it's a waste of time. His economic theories are idiotic.

[Anonymous No.17462936]

>>17462919
You are the one who is doing the coping. The Socialist proposal is having a centrally planned economy that takes care of all basic needs like housing, food etc. How the fuck is China a good example of that?

[Anonymous No.17462942]

>>17462933
>abdicate your responsability to the collective
are you gaslighting? the entire responsibility of capitalism is to generating revenue, no-matter the cost to the collective, leading to multinational corporations that are operated by small groups of shareholders that will profoundly change your life based on an algorithm

[Anonymous No.17462945]

>>17462936
I thought you were talking about central planning.
The things is no one is starving in China. And they are on the way to achieve Socialism. That's a contemporary Marxist state looks like.

[Anonymous No.17462983]

>>17462876
steam market

[Anonymous No.17462987]

>>17462945
"they are on the way to achieve Socialism" <-- Except they have been introducing free market elements in their economy for some time now.

[Anonymous No.17462992]

>>17462987
It's a part of plan that a mutt like you wouldn't understand.

[Anonymous No.17462994]

>>17462987
Read Xi Jinping's speech on Marx's 200th birthday

[Anonymous No.17462999]

Why is everyone talking about Marx in recent months, honestly? I understand leftists have taken over large portions of social media after the BLM protests the majority of them are literally dumb teenagers making Daddy Marx memes with Hello Kitty stickers. They're not actually Marxists. In fact, there's no Marxism to be seen anywhere. During this pandemic liberalism consolidated a technocratic world order where we're all slaves to corporations and governments that control all information and livelihoods on a scale never seen before. That's not Marxism, it's liberal totalitarianism and nobody seems to give a fuck, they're just whining about Marx for some reason

[Anonymous No.17463002]

waaah a german critiqued my shitty economic system!

[Anonymous No.17463007]

>>17462999
its the most fleshed out critique against capitalism and neoliberalism

[Anonymous No.17463011]

>>17462857
I don't browse here a lot, and I can't be bothered reading this whole thread, but this is one of the dumbest posts I've seen on /lit/ in long time. If you genuinely believe this, please just take your Nazi ass back to /pol/ where your own kind are waiting for you.

[Anonymous No.17463015]

>>17463007
The amount of serious Marxists who actually read the material vs trendhopping teens/college students who like the aesthetics but just want their loans paid for by AOC or reparations to black people in practice rather than seriously challenging capital

[Anonymous No.17463038]

>>17463007
Do you think most leftists care about getting rid of the neoliberal paradigm? They're liberals at heart, they just want to reform it. Make society have more diversity, more representation, more open borders, more fluidity and individualism, and that's it. There's no cohesive revolt against liberalism or capitalism, just college kids making memes about guillotines then shitting their pants with horror once Nancy Pelosi's office gets raided or AOC cries about her trauma. Again, Marx has nothing to do with any of this shit.

[Anonymous No.17463039]

>>17463038
cope

[Anonymous No.17463042]

>>17463015
there is no challenging capital. there is some small hope that a meteor will hit and fry the place or another plague will strangle us back into the stone age. mite b nice.

[Anonymous No.17463043]

>>17463038
Basado

[Anonymous No.17463045]

>>17462876
China is the greatest economic success in the last 300 years and is centrally planned you fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.17463053]

>>17463039
Nobody is coping except leftists when retarded rednecks challenge the establishment more than anything they've ever done in the West this entire century. As long as capital puts more black transgender women in Disney movies they'll be placated. All this shit about Marxism making a return is pure LARP and boredom during this pandemic, because the moment something actually happens you just have millennials hyperventilating about how fascism is making a return once war criminals in the Capitol tell you that democracy is under attack.

[Anonymous No.17463057]

>>17462863
we live under corporate socialism caused by state intervention in the economy caused by Keynesians and Fabians.
No such thing as capitalism in this world since at the latest 1929.

[Anonymous No.17463063]

>>17463053
The rednecks had no theory behind their praxis. It was not a challenge against capitalism. It was just to install their leader in power for 4 more years while he continued an authoritarian right wing government. Many of those people had fascist consciousness if not outright fascist sympathies, and would have supported Trump installing authoritarian fascist rule and state oppression of leftists (as evidenced by their cheering on of the feds kidnapping protesters in Portland). Occupy Wall Street was a real challenge against capital that was a coherent pro worker anti Wall Street movement rather than just trying to keep their figurehead in power. That was a bigger threat because that had a mission.

[Anonymous No.17463078]

>>17463063
>violence is bad praxis
wrong

[Anonymous No.17463081]

>>17463063
>It was not a challenge against capitalism. It was just to install their leader in power for 4 more years

You're right, it wasn't a challenge to anything, which is to say that leftists are even more pathetic that they can't compare to a pussy LARP riot that was mostly a psyop

And the rest of your post is just repeating Democrat and establishment fears of Trump being some Nazi fascist who's gonna destroy democracy (lol) which exactly what I already said about leftists, you're just fucking progressive liberals who are more emphatic about ideology. Congratulations on having the same revolutionary political views as a New York Times headline or a Teen Vogue article written by a trust fund kiddie

[Anonymous No.17463087]

>>17462857
He is in the western civilization you fucking moron, he was in the young hegelians and he comes from the line of the enlightenment epistemology. what a god damn idiot you are. like him or don't like him you should have a more educated understanding of what the fuck you're talking about

[Anonymous No.17463089]

>>17463063
https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/
A weird thing happened right after the Nov. 3 election: nothing.

The nation was braced for chaos. Liberal groups had vowed to take to the streets, planning hundreds of protests across the country. Right-wing militias were girding for battle. In a poll before Election Day, 75% of Americans voiced concern about violence.

Instead, an eerie quiet descended. As President Trump refused to concede, the response was not mass action but crickets. When media organizations called the race for Joe Biden on Nov. 7, jubilation broke out instead, as people thronged cities across the U.S. to celebrate the democratic process that resulted in Trump’s ouster.

A second odd thing happened amid Trump’s attempts to reverse the result: corporate America turned on him. Hundreds of major business leaders, many of whom had backed Trump’s candidacy and supported his policies, called on him to concede. To the President, something felt amiss. “It was all very, very strange,” Trump said on Dec. 2. “Within days after the election, we witnessed an orchestrated effort to anoint the winner, even while many key states were still being counted.”

In a way, Trump was right.

There was a conspiracy unfolding behind the scenes, one that both curtailed the protests and coordinated the resistance from CEOs. Both surprises were the result of an informal alliance between left-wing activists and business titans. The pact was formalized in a terse, little-noticed joint statement of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and AFL-CIO published on Election Day. Both sides would come to see it as a sort of implicit bargain–inspired by the summer’s massive, sometimes destructive racial-justice protests–in which the forces of labor came together with the forces of capital to keep the peace and oppose Trump’s assault on democracy.

The handshake between business and labor was just one component of a vast, cross-partisan campaign to protect the election–an extraordinary shadow effort dedicated not to winning the vote but to ensuring it would be free and fair, credible and uncorrupted. For more than a year, a loosely organized coalition of operatives scrambled to shore up America’s institutions as they came under simultaneous attack from a remorseless pandemic and an autocratically inclined President. Though much of this activity took place on the left, it was separate from the Biden campaign and crossed ideological lines, with crucial contributions by nonpartisan and conservative actors. The scenario the shadow campaigners were desperate to stop was not a Trump victory. It was an election so calamitous that no result could be discerned at all, a failure of the central act of democratic self-governance that has been a hallmark of America since its founding.

[Anonymous No.17463092]

>>17463089
Their work touched every aspect of the election. They got states to change voting systems and laws and helped secure hundreds of millions in public and private funding. They fended off voter-suppression lawsuits, recruited armies of poll workers and got millions of people to vote by mail for the first time. They successfully pressured social media companies to take a harder line against disinformation and used data-driven strategies to fight viral smears. They executed national public-awareness campaigns that helped Americans understand how the vote count would unfold over days or weeks, preventing Trump’s conspiracy theories and false claims of victory from getting more traction. After Election Day, they monitored every pressure point to ensure that Trump could not overturn the result. “The untold story of the election is the thousands of people of both parties who accomplished the triumph of American democracy at its very foundation,” says Norm Eisen, a prominent lawyer and former Obama Administration official who recruited Republicans and Democrats to the board of the Voter Protection Program.

For Trump and his allies were running their own campaign to spoil the election. The President spent months insisting that mail ballots were a Democratic plot and the election would be “rigged.” His henchmen at the state level sought to block their use, while his lawyers brought dozens of spurious suits to make it more difficult to vote–an intensification of the GOP’s legacy of suppressive tactics. Before the election, Trump plotted to block a legitimate vote count. And he spent the months following Nov. 3 trying to steal the election he’d lost–with lawsuits and conspiracy theories, pressure on state and local officials, and finally summoning his army of supporters to the Jan. 6 rally that ended in deadly violence at the Capitol.

The democracy campaigners watched with alarm. “Every week, we felt like we were in a struggle to try to pull off this election without the country going through a real dangerous moment of unraveling,” says former GOP Representative Zach Wamp, a Trump supporter who helped coordinate a bipartisan election-protection council. “We can look back and say this thing went pretty well, but it was not at all clear in September and October that that was going to be the case.”

[Anonymous No.17463094]

>>17462857
Marx has read more of the western canon than you ever will.

[Anonymous No.17463095]

>>17462876
Marx did not exactly advocated for specifically centrally planned economy.... he even endorsed stuff like the Paris Commune. Nor he said that a centrally planned economy (or a commune really) is socialism/communism, it is merely but a form of dictatorship of the proletariat (political will of the working class materialized)

[Anonymous No.17463097]

>>17463092
This is the inside story of the conspiracy to save the 2020 election, based on access to the group’s inner workings, never-before-seen documents and interviews with dozens of those involved from across the political spectrum. It is the story of an unprecedented, creative and determined campaign whose success also reveals how close the nation came to disaster. “Every attempt to interfere with the proper outcome of the election was defeated,” says Ian Bassin, co-founder of Protect Democracy, a nonpartisan rule-of-law advocacy group. “But it’s massively important for the country to understand that it didn’t happen accidentally. The system didn’t work magically. Democracy is not self-executing.”

That’s why the participants want the secret history of the 2020 election told, even though it sounds like a paranoid fever dream–a well-funded cabal of powerful people, ranging across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information. They were not rigging the election; they were fortifying it. And they believe the public needs to understand the system’s fragility in order to ensure that democracy in America endures.

THE ARCHITECT
Sometime in the fall of 2019, Mike Podhorzer became convinced the election was headed for disaster–and determined to protect it.

This was not his usual purview. For nearly a quarter-century, Podhorzer, senior adviser to the president of the AFL-CIO, the nation’s largest union federation, has marshaled the latest tactics and data to help its favored candidates win elections. Unassuming and professorial, he isn’t the sort of hair-gelled “political strategist” who shows up on cable news. Among Democratic insiders, he’s known as the wizard behind some of the biggest advances in political technology in recent decades. A group of liberal strategists he brought together in the early 2000s led to the creation of the Analyst Institute, a secretive firm that applies scientific methods to political campaigns. He was also involved in the founding of Catalist, the flagship progressive data company.

The endless chatter in Washington about “political strategy,” Podhorzer believes, has little to do with how change really gets made. “My basic take on politics is that it’s all pretty obvious if you don’t overthink it or swallow the prevailing frameworks whole,” he once wrote. “After that, just relentlessly identify your assumptions and challenge them.” Podhorzer applies that approach to everything: when he coached his now adult son’s Little League team in the D.C. suburbs, he trained the boys not to swing at most pitches–a tactic that infuriated both their and their opponents’ parents, but won the team a series of championships.

[Anonymous No.17463100]

>>17463097
Trump’s election in 2016–credited in part to his unusual strength among the sort of blue collar white voters who once dominated the AFL-CIO–prompted Podhorzer to question his assumptions about voter behavior. He began circulating weekly number-crunching memos to a small circle of allies and hosting strategy sessions in D.C. But when he began to worry about the election itself, he didn’t want to seem paranoid. It was only after months of research that he introduced his concerns in his newsletter in October 2019. The usual tools of data, analytics and polling would not be sufficient in a situation where the President himself was trying to disrupt the election, he wrote. “Most of our planning takes us through Election Day,” he noted. “But, we are not prepared for the two most likely outcomes”–Trump losing and refusing to concede, and Trump winning the Electoral College (despite losing the popular vote) by corrupting the voting process in key states. “We desperately need to systematically ‘red-team’ this election so that we can anticipate and plan for the worst we know will be coming our way.”

It turned out Podhorzer wasn’t the only one thinking in these terms. He began to hear from others eager to join forces. The Fight Back Table, a coalition of “resistance” organizations, had begun scenario-planning around the potential for a contested election, gathering liberal activists at the local and national level into what they called the Democracy Defense Coalition. Voting-rights and civil rights organizations were raising alarms. A group of former elected officials was researching emergency powers they feared Trump might exploit. Protect Democracy was assembling a bipartisan election-crisis task force. “It turned out that once you said it out loud, people agreed,” Podhorzer says, “and it started building momentum.”

He spent months pondering scenarios and talking to experts. It wasn’t hard to find liberals who saw Trump as a dangerous dictator, but Podhorzer was careful to steer clear of hysteria. What he wanted to know was not how American democracy was dying but how it might be kept alive. The chief difference between the U.S. and countries that lost their grip on democracy, he concluded, was that America’s decentralized election system couldn’t be rigged in one fell swoop. That presented an opportunity to shore it up.

[Anonymous No.17463139]

>>17463094
Pretty much this.
The man didnt just wake up one day and critique capitalism and political economy for fun, he did it because he spent his entire life analysing it. His works are the result of a lifetime of reading and studying, and no not everything Marx said has been the end all be all truth, but if you dont know Marx, you're blatantly ignoring the best starting point of critique of contemporary society. Theres a reason why so much of academia builds on his ideas, the man made a whole new conception of the world and its history and was highly intelligent in the way he dissected the issues and workings of capitalism.

[Anonymous No.17463406]

>>17462857
good

[Anonymous No.17463441]

>>17463045
Strange how you forgot to mention how their economic success started when they became more of a market economy instead of Mao's shitty model.

[Anonymous No.17463450]

>>17463095
I am mostly talking about what contemporary socialists argue for.

[Anonymous No.17463498]

>>17462857
>Superstructure determines base.

[Anonymous No.17463512]

>>17463441
They utilize the market dynamics while following their five year plans.
They don't leave things to the market in any way, they have a central planning that decide the areas of focus and investment.
Jesus, liberals are so fucking braindead.

[Anonymous No.17463524]

>>17463512
America is planned too. All economies are planned, all markets are molded by the state. China is more open and autonomous than any other Marxist state

[Anonymous No.17463690]

>>17463512
So what, that's still not the style of planned economy Socialists argue for. The success of China gives zero support for the viability of Socialism.

[Anonymous No.17463697]

>>17462863
this

[Anonymous No.17463700]

>>17462933
>His stuff is stupid, but I wouldn't know because I haven't read him
Is /lit/ worse than /v/?

[Anonymous No.17463701]

no

[Anonymous No.17463706]

>>17462857
Philosophy can't destroy society

[Anonymous No.17463721]

>>17462857
>His philosophy is destroying Western civilization
Good.

[Anonymous No.17463725]

>>17462892
>Try to destroy what is truly indestructible
>Surprised pikachu face when it destroys you.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. Nothing is more moronic than betting against the future of humanity and the power of life.

[Anonymous No.17463747]

>>17462863
Cope

[Anonymous No.17463771]

China is a Mercantilist economy. This is basic knowledge.

[Anonymous No.17463787]

>>17463771
This is the way

[Anonymous No.17463892]

>>17462876
fascist italy, ussr, postwar France, south korea, china

[Anonymous No.17464669]

>>17463787
Is, or was?

[Anonymous No.17464951]

>>17463045
>Everyone lives in extreme poverty until they liberalise their economy at which point they enter a boom like every other liberalised economy
>This shows central planning works
Anon

[Anonymous No.17464972]

>>17464951
kek

[Anonymous No.17465065]

>>17463450
>contemporary socialists argue for

literally who?. Only the soviets did and it failed. Central planning is not "marxist". Actually Marx didn't give any "recipe". He just described Capitalism.

[Anonymous No.17465180]

do we really need to have the exact same thread every fucking day?
these threads are 5% actual discussion about his or other marxist thinkers ideas and 95% pre programmed cointelpro npc responses ripped straight out of a prageru video, its fucking tiring

[Anonymous No.17465260]

>>17465180

[Anonymous No.17465303]

>>17465260
true, actually

[Anonymous No.17465309]

cope

[Anonymous No.17465797]

>>17463725
What are you even talking about nigger?

[Anonymous No.17465807]

>>17465180
>AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA WHY DO ALL THESE PEOPLE KEEP POINTING OUT THE SAME DETRIMENTAL FLAWS IN MY MEME IDEOLOGY


kys

[Anonymous No.17465888]

>>17465807
name one (1) detrimental flaw that is named in this thread, or any 4chan thread ever
there are many, the 4chan userbase is just too terminally retarded to find them

[Anonymous No.17465910]

>>17462863
>people naturally go to Marx, because he uplifts people beyond corporate interests and whores of revenue

[Anonymous No.17465918]

Only a failure would subscribe to an ideology with a success rate of 0%.

[Anonymous No.17465949]

Humans have been bartering shit since the beginning of time. Communism is inherently retarded. We don't need a complete overhaul of the system, we just need responsibility and accountability in government. Politicians need to understand that their policies have consequences, and that it is their duty to address those consequences. One consequence of our system is giant, powerful companies and rampant inequality, politicians can address this by protecting unions and forcing companies to pay people a livable wage. People still have the freedom to make extra money and start cool business ventures, but good policies prevent people from getting fucked over in the process.

[Anonymous No.17465973]

>>17462914
He was pro Guns, didn’t trust faggots, tried to expose elite pedophile rings and Jewish niggers like Lassalle and was anti-imperialist (translated to modern day that would be anti-globalist)

He was more ”alt-right” than the ”alt-right”.

[Anonymous No.17465998]

>>17462876
Vietnam

[Anonymous No.17466000]

>>17465910
>Capitalist companies don't use violence to enforce their rules! State enforcement of property rights is actually the Peaceful State of Nature

[Anonymous No.17466021]

>>17465949
Christians are losers who hate this and keep stopping the US government from doing this by voting reagan and all the neolibs since

[Anonymous No.17466032]

>>17465910
Thinking overt violence is what nakes capitalism so alienating to our species being.

[Anonymous No.17466040]

>>17462857
If you think anyone is a marxist, you don't go out often. Fuckin retard.

[Anonymous No.17466127]

>>17462863
better to commodify humanity into worker-donkeys who are living meaningless lives

[Anonymous No.17466134]

>>17466000
Do they? How does McDonalds use violence to enforce their rules?

[Anonymous No.17466156]

>>17466134
Hes retarded anon, just let it go

[Anonymous No.17466173]

>>17462914

Imagine thinking "Marx invented communism"

[Anonymous No.17466182]

>>17466173
this, he merely transcribed the philosophical positions of the League of Just Men

[Anonymous No.17466207]

>>17466134
>How does McDonalds use violence to enforce their rules?

Not merdonald, does the argument work anyway if I mention cuckcola? If so, just google "coca cola colombia trade union"

[Anonymous No.17466236]

>>17466207
got a more recent example? Definitely was shitty of them, but it's hardly a systemic feature of modren capitalism if you need to go back 18 years

[Anonymous No.17466240]

>>17466182

it's not even that, ideas (like all ideas) have been floating around for centuries.

>The stinking puddle from which usury, thievery and robbery arises is our lords and princes. They make all creatures their property—the fish in the water, the bird in the air, the plant in the earth must all be theirs. Then they proclaim God's commandments among the poor and say, "You shall not steal." They oppress everyone, the poor peasant, the craftsman are skinned and scraped. (1524)

[Anonymous No.17466255]

lmao, "the left" can be deactivated at any moment by their corporate overlords, it's been confirmed by Time magazine, there's nothing marxist about this
https://time.com/5936036/secret-2020-election-campaign/

[Anonymous No.17466258]

>>17462857
Based

[Anonymous No.17466270]

>>17462863
Tired of hearing this drivel. The suicidal and depressed people are the ones who can't get with the program, not the ones who have. Capitalists are very happy and they produce more technology, art, and even civil services than the non-capitalists ever would be willing to.

[Anonymous No.17466331]

>>17466240
that quote smells pretty modern to me, and I'm having a difficult time tracking down the source

[Anonymous No.17466342]

>>17466255
doesn't marxism rely on the existence of corporate overlords? Somebody needs to translate the will of the workers into economic reality

[Anonymous No.17466359]

>>17462876
It does, in context. Not that Marx advocated anything in particular.

[Anonymous No.17466395]

>>17462857
>destroying Western civilization
Why is it a bad thing again?

[Anonymous No.17466401]

>>17466342
the workers don't even exist anymore, it's just the corporations and psy-op'd college kids

[Anonymous No.17466442]

>>17465910
>wall of text maymay
Nice try retard. Right can't meem

[Anonymous No.17466465]

>>17466442
can't prove him wrong

[Anonymous No.17466590]

>>17462914
I believe I am in a troll thread. but I'll bite since I've had this picture saved for awhile.

[Anonymous No.17466596]

>>17466590
>The December decree of the CPC of 1918, "On the surrender of weapons", ordered people to surrender any firearms, swords, bayonets and bombs, regardless of the degree of serviceability. The penalty for not doing so was ten years' imprisonment. Members of the Communist Party were allowed to have a single weapon (a pistol or a rifle) and possession of the weapon was recorded in the party membership book.

[Anonymous No.17466606]

>>17466134
The police are violent and wont arrest the Mcdonald's CEO from stealing workers wages, but will arrest employees who "steal" their wages back.

[Anonymous No.17466617]

>>17466606
because you are describing two different kinds of theft

[Anonymous No.17466634]

>>17466606
Because the workers agree to the situation. You can debatably call it exploitation but there is a difference between the two situations.

[Anonymous No.17466728]

>>17464951
this

[Anonymous No.17466916]

>>17466134
>>17466236
Cops, anon. McDonalds, along with all the other corporations, spend billions to make sure the government enforces the rules they like and don't enforce the ones they hate. It's less direct than totalitarianism, but it's the same idea. If you don't behave the way the powerful people like, you will be fucked up.

[Anonymous No.17466989]

The world has abandoned Marx and suffered for it.

[Anonymous No.17467094]

>>17466270
And you're not one

[Anonymous No.17467105]

>>17466331

Whoa, I admit, it took me some time, but I did it


Hoch verursachte Schutzrede und antwort wider das Gaistloße Sanfft lebende fleysch zu Wittenberg: welches mit verkärter weyße durch den Diepstal der heiligen schrift die erbermdliche Christenheit also ga[n]tz jämerlichen besudelt hat [page 17 in this digital version]

In the next comment I'll provide another link with full transliteration in today's German
https://books.google.it/books?id=2mHNufr0UmsC&pg

[Anonymous No.17467112]

>>17467105

Sieh zu, die Grundsuppe des Wuchers, der Dieberei und Räuberei sein unser Herrn und Fürsten, nehmen alle Kreaturen zum Eigentum: die Fisch im Wasser, die Vögel in der Luft, das Gewächs auf Erden muß alles ihr sein (Jes. 5). Darüber lassen sie dann Gottes Gebot ausgehen unter die Armen und sprechen: »Gott hat geboten: Du sollst nicht stehlen.

http://www.mlwerke.de/mu/mu_003.htm

[Anonymous No.17467126]

>>17467094
>haha you post on 4chan, you must be an anti-capitalist depressed retard like me

[Anonymous No.17467127]

>>17466916
by the same token, leftists spend billions to make sure the government enforces taking tax money from the people and redistributing it to the lower classes

[Anonymous No.17467132]

>>17462868
*jews

[Anonymous No.17467138]

>>17467105
>>17467112
Damn dude nice work. I stand corrected.

[Anonymous No.17467153]

>>17467132
*jewish anglos

[Anonymous No.17467161]

>>17462857
His philosophy died 30 years ago, liberalism and moralistic humanism are destroying western civilisation

[Anonymous No.17467172]

>>17467138

Thank, I really appreciate. The interesting thing is I don't even speak German.

[Anonymous No.17467392]

>>17462857
Did he invent professional sports?

[Anonymous No.17467411]

>>17467392
The Greeks did

[Anonymous No.17467775]

The problem lies in establishing and maintaining socialism. There have been some results in creating socialist projects, but they have always been stamped out because of the contradictions.

The first contradiction lies in that communism can't exist when it has to compete with capitalism. Capitalism is a stronger market force. If communism wants to stay afloat it has to implement forced work hours to keep up. Which contradicts communism, which is about creating commodities for use only, not for selling and making a profit.

The second contradiction is that the USSR was nationalist. Nationalism creates a dichotomy. It becomes a competition between nationalities. We saw this when the USSR destroyed other communist projects. When you have to defend yourself against foreign invaders you have to waste resources and labour time on defending yourself. If they could coexist the resources and time could have been expended on useful research or maybe even free time. The immense problem with this is that nationalism can't exist at all. Even if the USSR wouldn't have been nationalistic, other countries could still invade them, leading to the same problem.

The third contradiction was the dogmatism when it came to how to perform communism. To create communism you have to create socialism, to create socialism you have to create capitalism. A country such as Russia, which was still in the feudal mode of production, wasn't ready for socialism because it wasn't a capitalist country. So instead of going directly to from feudalism to communism, they decided to create capitalism with central planning and a welfare state. Which they never managed to turn into proper socialism or communism because of the first two contradictions.

[Anonymous No.17469086]

>>17466270

>Capitalists produce more art, etc

Yeah, that art that you all come on here to bitch and whine about because it's all pozzed, woke shit written by poc and women. Face it: capitalist culture and production is not producing things that people here find valuable. Capitalism seeks trends, and what is most profitable will take precedence - if that is weak art in the form of cut and paste sci fi fantasy and novels about immigrant women fleeing war torn Syria, then it's what art will be. Capitalism doesn't want problematic - it wants easy, understandable, consumable. You'll never get a Dante of late capitalism.

[Anonymous No.17469102]

>>17469086
are you saying we need to return to medieval feudalism to get good art?

[Anonymous No.17469143]

The West is destroying itself. Marx just pointed out the contradictions in the system that runs the west and he was influenced by western philosophy.

[Anonymous No.17469159]

>>17462863
capitalism and marxism are the exact same.

[Anonymous No.17469162]

>>17462914

[Anonymous No.17469178]

people complain about the guenonfag yet without him we would have the same banal marxist faggot threads every single day.

[Anonymous No.17469184]

>>17462933
>When your right to own the fruits of your own labour is protected, you become responsible for your own well-being and that of the people you love.
yes, socialism is based
>This leads to meaning. When you blame the rich for your own misfortune and abdicate your responsability to the collective, you become a slave.
oh
>No-one actually reads him because it's a waste of time. His economic theories are idiotic.
kys

[Anonymous No.17469190]

>>17466989
God shut the fuck up you literal homosexual.

[Anonymous No.17469202]

>>17462987
>introducing free market elements
>by nationalising the largest industries

[Anonymous No.17469222]

theory is a waste of time. marx is and will be proven wrong.

you're all worthless despite what your college tells you.

[Anonymous No.17469233]

>>17467127
lmfao what

[Anonymous No.17469243]

>>17469233
no more retarded than saying mcdonalds uses violence because the police will arrest you if you steal from the register

[Anonymous No.17469254]

the retardation this thread has exposed is a shame to everyone involved and we should all voluntarily delete our posts.

[Anonymous No.17469255]

>>17463094
>Marx has read more of the western canon than you ever will.
How the fuck does this refute Marxism being evil lol. Canon slaves are mentally ill.

[Anonymous No.17469392]

>>17469255
It shows that he has understanding of what he's talking about more than some retard on /pol/ claiming Marxism is destroying the West despite having no grounding in the classics

[Anonymous No.17469463]

>>17469243
yeah? and mcdonalds execs wont get arrested if they steal from employers? how is this the same thing?

[Anonymous No.17469469]

Whats the best version of thus? I want something nuce, i refer back to ut a fair amount, tons of it is about globalism somehow

[Anonymous No.17469473]

>>17469463
Sure they would

[Anonymous No.17469483]

>>17469473
not sure what world you live in lmao

[Anonymous No.17469486]

>>17469463
probably not desu

[Anonymous No.17469505]

>>17469243
The state uses violence (which is not necessarily bad, you should probably use violence if someone is robbing a mcdonalds or some shit) to serve McDonalds' and other corporations' interests. The state doesn't really have to do that much legwork though, since our society has already been structured to allow corporations to thrive with as little resistance as possible.

[Anonymous No.17469514]

>>17469483
Depends on what you mean by "steal from employers" I suppose. If it was literal take-money-from-pocket then sure the police would get involved. If you mean "not paying the full value of labor" then the police would not be involved, but they would also not be involved if an employee were doing the same kind of theft by being a super shitty employee providing less value than what they are earning

[Anonymous No.17469519]

>>17469505
The state also uses violence to serve the interests of people who are on welfare, by enforcing the redistribution of wealth via taxes, as I said in the earlier post.

[Anonymous No.17469659]

>>17462863
He may uplift them in that regard, but communism is too tied to the physical world to do any permanent good for man.

[Anony No.17469685]

>>17462857
Didn’t he argue for a peaceful transition over the course of many generations incrementally and that it would naturally evolve anyway without orchestration while he lived a leisurely upper middle class lifestyle, and point out all the flaws of quickly transitioning into communism because it’s an immense and impossible bureaucratic process to be taken place over a short period of time?

[Anonymous No.17469849]

>>17466596
You got him.

[Anonymous No.17469865]

>>17466255
>There was a conspiracy unfolding behind the scenes, one that both curtailed the protests and coordinated the resistance from CEOs. Both surprises were the result of an informal alliance between left-wing activists and business titans. The pact was formalized in a terse, little-noticed joint statement of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and AFL-CIO published on Election Day. Both sides would come to see it as a sort of implicit bargain–inspired by the summer’s massive, sometimes destructive racial-justice protests–in which the forces of labor came together with the forces of capital to keep the peace and oppose Trump’s assault on democracy.
Holy shit lmao

[Anonymous No.17469879]

Marxism is increasingly relevant since the 2008 recession and the 2016 Presidential race due to presenting a critique of capitalist inequalities. The resentment against neoliberalism reached a fever pitch after these vents.

AOC and Bernie Sanders struck a chord with the Democratic Party base. People are waking up to the donor class's control of the political process. Young people are turning to radical movements such as Antifa (anarcho communism) or BLM. They feel a sense of economic stagnation despite the stats things are supposedly "better". This is also why Trump defeated the mainstream Republicans and the Beltway Conservatives. He turned the GOP party base into a right wing populist, anti global liberal party.

[Anonymous No.17469889]

>>17469879
none of that has to do with marx
aoc, sanders, blm are all tools of the democrats. all bent over for biden and pelosi.
antifa are useful idiot kids that were used by the liberals to riot against trump. they were duped and are being discarded. this is the most grassroots of all the movements, but still co opted.

[Anonymous No.17469899]

america has turned to garbage because women and blacks are in leadership positions. they mostly are as dumb and emotionally unstable as each other. communism will never work in the us because the blacks are too lazy and will just want to feed off the whites even more than they do now and whites wont put up with that even liberals. look at all the major cities in us they are literally the sudan run by black negro women. the only hope for whites is to segregate and band together but that is unlikely

[tavon martian No.17469903]

america has turned to garbage because women and blacks are in leadership positions. they mostly are as dumb and emotionally unstable as each other. communism will never work in the us because the blacks are too lazy and will just want to feed off the whites even more than they do now and whites wont put up with that even liberals. look at all the major cities in us they are literally the sudan run by black negro women. the only hope for whites is to segregate and band together but that is unlikely wtf

[Anonymous No.17469911]

>>17469889
I didn't say these were Marxist movements, only that the rise of those movements reflects an attitude of class resentment against the American neoliberal establishment. In turn, interest in Marxism (or fascism, or other alternative schools of thought to liberal capitalism) increased in this climate.

All the groups I mentioned have one thing in common: they are all against the current American status quo. Social democrats, anarchists, progressives, right wing populists, nationalists. They all want change and have grievances against the US economic system that boil down to the elites exploiting the common man, wealth inequality, and so on and were able to gain mainstream traction because they presented an alternative to the status quo, even if not a Marxist one.

[Anonymous No.17469914]

>>17462889
omg DESTROYED!!!!

[Anonymous No.17469924]

>>17469911
but marxism is ineffective when opposing ideologies also gain traction and corral the anti establishment energy towards these movements, many of which can work within a market economy framework and are more focused on social issues.

[Anonymous No.17469933]

There is no such thing as pure class struggle when it comes to capitalism. The unique experiences of and forms of oppression against various races, genders, and age groups cannot be ignored. The hierarchy and oppressive caste system extends beyond just class, which is where Marxists fall flat and why they are ineffective in the face of intersectional movements.

[Anonymous No.17469945]

>>17469924
>>17469933
The fundamental issue at the center of these discussions is economic. If people weren't economically insecure and felt a lack of prosperity, they wouldn't be attracted to these movements, have the sort of passionate fury about politics they have right now, or have many of these grievances in the first place.

[Anonymous No.17469947]

>>17469879
You write like a buzzfeed faggot, who are you trying to convince here? Anyone who is legitimately on the left in the party is being kept in line by neolibs.

[Anonymous No.17469955]

>>17469933
intersectionality is such a fucking meme
>as a black female I experience oppression due to my race ... AND due to my gender

[Anonymous No.17469958]

Marx was absolutely correct in many of his critiques. We currently have a capitalist-controlled state that seeks punishes its citizens and rewards the rich. It doesn't matter who is in power, these policies have been implemented by both Republicans and Democrats who serve capital.

Look at where the bipartisanship is, its always the stuff that fucks the average Joe. Patriot Act, overseas wars, stalling your checks.

[Anonymous No.17469964]

>>17469958
How does stalling your checks reward the rich?

[Anonymous No.17469965]

>>17469955
The system works in other ways to perpetuate exploitation and oppression. Black women have extra layers of oppression and power struggle to deal with

[Anonymous No.17469969]

>>17469964
They'd prefer not to pay any at all because god forbid they pay more in tax. You have to wring their hand, that's why Americans only got 2 halfass stimulus checks months apart despite endless lockdowns.

[Anonymous No.17469972]

>>17469965
How does intersectionality square with the fact that white males are systematically discriminated against more than any other group?

[Anonymous No.17469975]

>>17469964
so the plebs dont get wealth from the hard working job creator. thats not what ayn rand would have wanted

[Anonymous No.17469979]

>>17469969
If withholding stimulus checks so as to keep down the budget is rewarding the rich then our massively overinflated defense budget must be punishing the rich (except for the small subset of the rich in the defense industry who profit of course)

[Anonymous No.17469983]

>>17469975
>$2000
>wealth
our massive entitlement programs that already exist are an attack on the rich then

[Anonymous No.17469994]

>>17469983
Which is why they won't expand them to the level of the rest of the developed world
>>17469979
Wealthy business interests and stakeholders influence defense spending

[Anonymous No.17470000]

>>17469979
how come politicians cry about the budget when it comes to giving americans money but they dont ask questions about the defense budget?

[Anonymous No.17470001]

>>17465973
If that's true (we are talking about Marxists here) then what are modern Marxists smoking? Why won't they take the red pill? Do they think they have too much red already?
A more likely scenario is that all the woke stuff is being pushed to soften the first world so it's easier to Seize the Memes of Production.

[Anonymous No.17470011]

>>17469994
So you agree the $2.4 trillion every year on social spending is an attack on the rich?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17470019]

>>17462857
Pure energy

His philosophy is destroying the Romulan Empire

[Anonymous No.17470020]

>>17470001
Modern Marxists don't even know what Marx himself said. They get told what he said through a filter: other Marxists; and they likely didn't read what he said, either.

This is a constant issue: both people who lament or praise Marx haven't actually read him. The biggest giveaway that immediately tips you off to this fact is if the person invokes LTV, something Marx never said.

[Anonymous No.17470021]

>>17470000
Possibly because we "give americans" four times as much money as we give the defense department

[Anonymous No.17470032]

>>17466255
>There was a conspiracy unfolding behind the scenes
>preventing Trump’s conspiracy theories
Holy fuck. They admitted everything.

[Anonymous No.17470035]

>>17470011
its not very effective
>>17470021
at least social spending is useful. these cunts are trying to cut it constantly

[Anonymous No.17470040]

>>17470035
National defense is useful.

[Anonymous No.17470041]

>>17470040
and we spend more than enough on it

[Anonymous No.17470044]

>>17470020
...LTV?
Also, what do you think about Cultural Marxism? "Muh conspiracy theoreez" aside, the oppressor-oppressed dynamic seems like literally textbook Marxism, and underpins Wokism. I'm sure you've heard that hundreds of times but your viewpoint seems interesting.

[Anonymous No.17470045]

>>17470040
To invade foreign countries for oil and Zionist interests, perhaps. Yet they can't give people healthcare.

[Anonymous No.17470057]

>>17466255
>The racial-justice uprising sparked by George Floyd’s killing in May was not primarily a political movement. The organizers who helped lead it wanted to harness its momentum for the election without allowing it to be co-opted by politicians. Many of those organizers were part of Podhorzer’s network, from the activists in battleground states who partnered with the Democracy Defense Coalition to organizations with leading roles in the Movement for Black Lives.
What a surprise.

[Anonymous No.17470070]

>>17470057
I bet I could read this to someone verbatim and have them think it's some boomercon's conspiracy rant. What a massive redpill that would be when I link the article.
People literally died in riots so they could build hype for the election.

[Anonymous No.17470075]

>>17470045
America already spends $2.4 trillion per year on combined public healthcare and social welfare costs. Military, in comparison, is $600 billion per year. Not to mention your government is in an extreme amount of debt already due to covid. Last year it was gaining $1 trillion in debt per month. All this does is widen the inequality gap, because guess who is getting rich on these loans to the US government?

[Anonymous No.17470076]

>>17469685
Yes. More than most people realize

[Anonymous No.17470080]

>>17462857
>His philosophy is destroying Western civilization

[Anonymous No.17470086]

>>17470020
>invokes LTV
He never used the word, but it's still an important concept in Marx's work. It's literally explained, or at least touched on, in the first book/chapter of Capital. Referencing LTV is totally valid for talking about Marx.

[Anonymous No.17470093]

>>17470070
They always brag about it and they'll still deny it. The redpill genuinely don't work on these people though because even if you show them and prove it they'll dismiss it entirely or accept it then talk the same shit the next day. It's faith.

[Anonymous No.17470098]

>>17470041
And? We spend more than enough on benefits as well.
>>17470045
Healthcare is not the responsiblity of government, also I assume you're a proponent of the retarded idea that the government should take tax money from people, keep some of it and give the rest to insurance companies, who keeps some of it and gives the rest of it to healthcare providers to give healthcare to the people who got taxed. That's a leaky, shitty system. Health care is massively problematic in this country but it's not due to lack of insurance, in fact health insurance has caused most of the problems

[Anonymous No.17470107]

>>17470098
>We

[Anonymous No.17470111]

>>17470098
>sighs in Canadian wait times
Also Captcha needs to get it together, that yellow pickup truck isn't a taxi baka.

[Anonymous No.17470114]

>>17470107
just mirroring anon's language. You're right though, I personally have zero say over who spends what.

[Anonymous No.17470120]

>>17470020
>>17470086
I'm going to be waiting for you to respond to this, btw, because I want to see what you have to say in your defense. It's a bit like saying Hitler was not a fascist because he never used that specific word to refer to himself.

[Anonymous No.17470134]

>>17470120
People say he wasn't a socialist despite the fact that he DID use that label to refer to himself, so anything's possible really.

[Anonymous No.17470138]

>>17466255
>That’s why the participants want the secret history of the 2020 election told, even though it sounds like a paranoid fever dream–a well-funded cabal of powerful people, ranging across industries and ideologies, working together behind the scenes to influence perceptions, change rules and laws, steer media coverage and control the flow of information. They were not rigging the election; they were fortifying it.
So there's a cabal of rich people funding shadow campaigns, organized protests and media manipulation to ensure they win the election, but it's FORTIFYING democracy because their opponent, they believe (citing their own media no doubt), is a threat to democracy.

[Anonymous No.17470146]

>>17470134
Not sure if you're being serious, but that's evidently not the same thing. The point is it doesn't really matter what one calls oneself or doesn't call oneself, what's important is the actual substance behind mere words.

[Anonymous No.17470155]

>>17470138
Lol literally just sounds like the "jew NWO cabal rigging the election against Trump" theory

[Anonymous No.17470158]

>>17470138
Everybody should fucking back up that article in case Time realizes what it just did.

[Anonymous No.17470162]

>>17470076

He was mixed on the whole thing. He advocated revolution at various points, but it was usually vague and premised on a future scenario where the proletariat had already “advanced” to a stage of considerable class consciousness through their historical struggles and formation of new institutions etc. Marx and Engels just weren’t as specific as their dogmatic followers later attributed to them. Marx heavily leaned towards “organic” movements of struggle that would grow the political consciousness of the proletariat, which goes all the way back to his liberal phase when he advocated for freedom of the press and universal suffrage on the basis that even if the working class was ignorant, it had to develop out of its ignorance through experience and social responsibility. That basic notion carried through into his communist phase, and he consistently believed that advancing past capitalism would require a mass cultural shift through changing conditions, it would be a process of political education through struggle. But even though he constantly reiterated that set of beliefs, he also veered into revolutionary polemics about upending everything decisively, about destroying all that there was etc. that spawned both Leninists and left-communists who to varying degrees believe that there needs to be a revolutionary moment that signifies the decisive end of capitalism (i include leftcoms because they tend to criticize the USSR for not sufficiently ending capitalism by ending commodity production or the “value form” etc. which implies a certain “DO IT NOW” philosophy).

And given the successful failure of the USSR, this group still vehemently claims that it holds the true legacy of Marx’s immortal science. Marx was insightful and clearly intelligent, but he was also very cocky about his own intelligence and constantly picked fights with intellectual rivals. The content of these feuds are often where he becomes contradictory or vague in places, because he would strongly condemn someone’s ideas even though they weren’t always that far from his own in other writings, leading to later Marxist exegesis that tries to divine the true meaning of Marxist thought from isolated instances of what is not a totally cohesive body of work.

[Anonymous No.17470163]

>>17470158
>>17470138
Jesus Christ that's from fucking Time? Lmao they got a subservie goyim on the staff.

[Anonymous No.17470166]

>>17470158
it's on Wayback already, probably archive.is too. Still a good idea.

[Anonymous No.17470171]

>>17470166
>Wayback
Comped.
>archive.is
Better.

[Anonymous No.17470177]

you are ashamed at your black skin

[Anonymous No.17470309]

i am a filipino white nationalist. hail the west, hail trump, hail victory. sol invictus, deus vult, sieg heil. be strong my brothers, i stand with you. america is for white man. europe is for white man. i live in america my parents immigrated and think the white america is better. its just turning into trash man. marx is a commie douchebag, wants to turn everyone into slaves

[Anonymous No.17470332]

>>17470309
Based. I wish you the best too.

[Anonymous No.17470352]

>>17470332
youre welcome brother

deleted the post. had to fix up some grammar

[Anonymous No.17470423]

[Anonymous No.17470499]

>>17462857
Is it true he hated niggers and jews?

[1 !!gL+sj8HCbr5 No.17470624]

>>17462857
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.17470659]

>>17469879
>BLM
>radical movement

God you leftists are unbelievably fucking delusional so glad you’ll never get power in our lifetime

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17470680]

>>17470659
It’s usually the rightoids who think BLM are some kind of radicals. Maybe he’s just trolling. Laying it on thick, I think.

[Anonymous No.17470684]

>>17462876
Amazon Inc.

[Anonymous No.17470686]

>>17469879
BLM aren't radical, they're a tool of the capitalists.
Marxist Leninism is radical.

[Anonymous No.17470693]

>>17470686
thats a rather racist and reductionits viewpoint of blm i think. their discontent is based in very real grievances and disparities in american society
>>17470680
>>17470659
blm are radical. they challenged trump

[Anonymous No.17470694]

>>17470086
It’s not Marxism. It may come from Marxist theory and academia but it’s fundamentally born out of liberalism. It’s just slave morality, there’s nothing revolutionary about it, it’s just liberals demanding that their ideology and world order becomes intersectional and universally accommodating to oppressed groups. That’s why everything is Woke today, everything has collapsed into slave morality and fundamentally looking to include everyone in a neoliberal paradigm through diversity, immigration etc is beneficial to capital. As to why leftists have come to believe this stuff instead of Marxism, leftism devolved into a cult of guilt and inferiority in the 60s and broke from traditional Marxism. It’s completely amicable to the system and that’s why most leftists are simply progressive liberals more focused on woke ideology than class or materialism.

[Anonymous No.17470701]

>>17470693
Lol shut the fuck up kid

[Anonymous No.17470709]

>>17462857
>His philosophy is destroying Western civilization
But that's good?

[Anonymous No.17470715]

>>17470694
Did you reply to the wrong person? It's fair to argue Marxism was born out of classical liberalism, I won't dispute that much.

[Anonymous No.17470718]

>>17462863
Corporatism, as a result of uncontrolled capitalism is the real problem. Capitalism is a natural byproduct of human behavior and social structures, to fight against it is futile.

[Anonymous No.17470800]

>>17470715
Meant to reply to >>17470044

[Anonymous No.17470826]

>>17462914
Why are transgender rights a sign of the West collapsing? What the fuck can trans people possibly do to make civilization collapse?

[Anonymous No.17470864]

>>17470826
Rubble itself doesn't collapse buildings but it shows that a building is collapsing.

[Anonymous No.17470892]

>>17470864
Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's collapse or a sign of collapse. You can't really make any demonstrable link between a handful of trannies treated with dignity and collapse.

[Anonymous No.17470906]

>>17470892
The widespread acceptance of trans stuff implies a more complex and chaotic societal view of gender than there was before. Social entropy is an aspect of collapse.

[Anonymous No.17470926]

>>17469865
the funniest part is when they literally say that the BLM protests are astroturfed and could have been deactivated by "the left" at any moment by doing a zoom call, lmao

[Anonymous No.17470944]

>>17470926
Yeah BLM has no corporate influence and isn’t astroturfed. Anyways congratulations on your radical riots being nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, i hope fellow peace laureate Barack Obama gives it to BLM to show how revolutionary the Left is

[Anonymous No.17470948]

>>17469865
Shut it down goyim...

[Anonymous No.17470956]

>>17462891
Based

[Anonymous No.17470973]

>>17470948
>>17470138
You have to be fucking stupid. You think the AFL-CIO is a shadow cabal? You fucking retard, none of these organizations "Secretive" ; you fall for clickbait articles because you're a retard. Getting people elected costs money, and that requires big data for voter out reach. Republicans did the same with Cambridge Analytica and conservative pacs. You have to be a dumbass from /pol/

[Anonymous No.17470982]

>>17470973
that's the point retard, they do it on the open and admit that they are doing it, and brag about it, they run your life and manage the whole "left" to use it as a battering ram to destroy middle level players

[Anonymous No.17471004]

>>17470973
the article itself calls it a shadow cabal

[Anonymous No.17471015]

>>17470982
No, retard, they're just political interest groups. You're not an intelligent person - politicians have always done this, yet, you think you're woke because you find a fucking TIME article spelling out for you. As if this information was hard to find. You're so fucking stupid. And I really have no problem with it. The left should support capitalism.
>>17471004
Its clickbait, you retard.

[Anonymous No.17471016]

the real question is why are leftists such useful tools?
>of course we will take the means of production you just have to destroy your civilization and fight this revolution/civil war for us
>oh sorry i meant WE will take the means of production lol
>fast forward to the 60s
>the leftists are getting uppity why dont we trick them into dividing working class society and depressing wage growth via civil rights and mass immigration lol then destroy them by turning them onto a degenerate culture of drug fueled consumerism
>it works perfectly
>fast forward to 2011
>they're getting uppity again, turn the anti white sentiment and mass immigration and degeneracy up to 11
>it works again

[Anonymous No.17471027]

>>17470982
>to destroy middle level players
What are you talking about ESL having faggot? What are these "middle level players" you stupid fuck. At least articulate your point instead sounding like a moron. Are you really surprised people are spending money to win elections to get policies past that serve them you dumb fuck? Are you really that fucking stupid.

[Anonymous No.17471032]

>>17471016
You sound like one those retards who confuse liberals with leftists. Also, mass immigration is good. It has no impact on wages or crime. If you want to debate this, I'm happy to own you on this because a lot of you retarded conservatives make this talking point. Neoliberal here btw.

[Anonymous No.17471038]

>>17471016
Also, retard, nominal income and wages haven't been depresssing. Why you dumb-asses just repeat obvious lies?

[Anonymous No.17471042]

>>17471032
>You sound like one those retards who confuse liberals with leftists
no
>also, mass immigration is good
no

[Anonymous No.17471044]

>>17471032
are you one of those retards who confuse trump supporters with fascists?

[Anonymous No.17471045]

>>17471027
>>17471015
what has the left achieved in the last years except destroying middle class lives? it's clear they are just the shock troops of the oligarchy, and that they can be deactivated with a zoom call when convenient as Times magazines has acknowledged

[Anonymous No.17471047]

>>17471042
Mass immigration is good. They pay taxes and create jobs. This is an empirical fact. The United States, you dumb fuck, would not even exist and be as powerful as it is today without mass immigration. You're most likely not even white, you mutt.

[Anonymous No.17471049]

>>17471032
Liberals are nothing like leftists. Liberals want globalized degeneracy where everyone is an androgynous individualist consumer whereas leftists want the exact same thing however more competently

>>17471027
You do realize that you’re not allowed on social media to say that, right? Yes it’s fucking obvious that institutional elites force the outcome of elections, but you literally can’t say that on Instagram or Twitter for the 2020 election because they’ll flag it and call it misinformation. That’s the whole fucking point. They aren’t letting people state the obvious unless they do it themselves because we’re ruled by a liberal tech oligarchy

[Anonymous No.17471050]

>>17471015
Did you already know that BLM protests were being strategically deployed as momentum for the election?

[Anonymous No.17471054]

>>17471044
Nah, I think people like you should be shot though.
>>17471045
The middle class hasn't been destroyed though you dumb nigger. Also, why would leftists care about the middle class? They don't support the petite bourgeois you dumb nigger.

[Anonymous No.17471056]

>>17471047
>mass immigration is good because we can put a mcdonalds on every street corner staffed by brown people!!

wow yea dude you sure showed me

[Anonymous No.17471064]

>>17471049
Dude, you are retarded and you need to kill yourself.
>Liberals want globalized degeneracy where everyone is an androgynous individualist consumer
Why do you hate capitalism so much you commie? Is it because you at being successful at life?
>You do realize that you’re not allowed on social media to say that, right?
I'm allowed to dox, and get you fired.
>You do realize that you’re not allowed on social media to say that, right?
This is your brain social media and populism. You're a retard.
>call it misinformation
Because that's what fucking retarrded faggots like you do is spread mis-information. Now, you're mad because you get caught for pushing GRU backed mis-information campaigns. You're a dumbass, and you're mad nobody is taking shit anymore. Technology companies should do way more to crack down people who clearly intelligence assets of China and Russia like you are

[Anonymous No.17471066]

>>17471054
>They don't support the petite bourgeois you dumb nigger.
i know, they are a tool of the grand bourgeois to remove competition, and they can be activated at any moment by a zoom call full of oligarchs

[Anonymous No.17471069]

>>17471056
>Capitalism is bad and everyone should be poor
>We should lower our living standards because brown people hurt your feelings
Nah

[Anonymous No.17471077]

Populists are fucking retarded. Conservative populists are the worst and communists suck too

[Anonymous No.17471083]

I'm a neo-liberal, and I unironically support tech companies using their right to free speech to suppress conservatives spreading mis-information. I also support repression against communists.

[Anonymous No.17471088]

>>17471069
>Capitalism is bad and everyone should be poor
didn't say that
>We should lower our living standards because brown people hurt your feelings
>will will not risk having slightly less material goods in order to have a healthier society that isn't a soulless giant bug hive
very cool

[Anonymous No.17471097]

>>17471088
We literally live in one of the richest countries in the world you dumbass, with a high life expectancy, and it got higher after Reagan's amnesty. You have to be a dumbass.

[Anonymous No.17471106]

>>17471083
>I unironically support tech companies using their right to free speech to suppress conservatives spreading mis-information
Why?

[Anonymous No.17471107]

>>17471097
ok?

[Anonymous No.17471115]

>>17471106
Because its a national security risk

[Anonymous No.17471124]

>>17471115
And?

[Anonymous No.17471131]

>>17471124
You're using propaganda to undermine democratic elections in the United States and undermine our institutions and international influence. You're committing treason when you knowingly undermine the US interests using information warfare. Free speech in the United States is not an absolute right.You absolutely should be targeted. It is in the best interests of the United States that you are repressed

[Anonymous No.17471136]

>>17471131
you should be killed by the state

[Anonymous No.17471137]

>>17471115
...so was antifa and blm, yet they were allowed to burn down hundreds of homes and businesses owned by regular Americans (not even owned by megacorps for the most part)

[Anonymous No.17471142]

>>17471131
No, big tech is using control to undermine the democratic process by selectively censoring "disinformation" in a biased manner.

[Anonymous No.17471144]

>>17471136
They should kill you
>>17471137
That's false, retard.
https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests/

[Anonymous No.17471146]

>>17471144
>https://time.com/5886348/report-peaceful-protests
"peaceful protests"

[Anonymous No.17471156]

>>17471142
Nah, this is a lie. You're a shill pushing GRU dis-info and you think people are stupid enough to fall for it in the intelligence community. I'm glad they've learned.

[Anonymous No.17471163]

>>17471156
What part of what I said is a lie?

[Anonymous No.17471170]

>>17471144
>>17471156
This is a Jewish banker who is scared of facing reckoning for his crimes

[Anonymous No.17471182]

I wonder if the retard here who wants to argue that BLM & Anitfa was burning businesses explain why democratic governors activated the state national guards against them if they were allowed to burn it dumb you fucking retard. Also, explain to me why in Minnesota, where most of this happened allegedly, why the state overwhelmingly went for Joe Biden. Like, if you weren't a retard, the obvious facts would line up here, but I'll wait.

[Anonymous No.17471187]

>>17471163
Everything you said is a lie. All you retards do is like.

[Anonymous No.17471195]

>>17471170
Crimes like lifting billions of people out of poverty?

[Anonymous No.17471196]

>>17471182
Do you remember Kyle Rittenhaus? The police refused to defend homes, so people like him had to literally defend community properties and risk their lives in doing so. The police did barely anything. They didn't even label them as terrorist organizations; Trump was the only one pushing for this.

[Anonymous No.17471209]

>>17471196
>Do you remember Kyle Rittenhaus?
I don't care about Kyle Rittenhouse; I don't obsesses over children
>The police did barely anything.
They arrested thousands of people what you talking about you fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.17471223]

>>17470973
>>17471027
Hm I wonder what kind of person would come in here and be outraged at this, throwing insults around while claiming it's just clickbait. Really makes me think.

[Anonymous No.17471225]

>>17471223
Yeah, I'm a Jew. So what? Nothing wrong with that you little Nazi prick.

[Anonymous No.17471226]

>>17471223
>IT REALLY MAKES YOU THINK

[Anonymous No.17471228]

>>17471209
>I don't care about Kyle Rittenhouse; I don't obsesses over children
Ok, but you do remember him right? Regardless of his age, he was a symbol of defiance against the ruling mobs.
>They arrested thousands of people what you talking about you fucking retard.
Ok, so why weren't they designated a terrorist organization? What has the right wing done that is even comparable to them? Both sides use lies and distortion, but the left seems to be the one resorting to large scale destruction

[Anonymous No.17471231]

>>17471225
>Nothing wrong with that
From what I've seen there sure is and I'm not the only one who see it plain as day. Take a breather and go spin a dreidel or something.

[Anonymous No.17471235]

>>17471228
>Ok, but you do remember him right? Regardless of his age, he was a symbol of defiance against the ruling mobs.
I really don't give fuck about anecdotal cases. And I don't care if private citizens shoot people who put their property and lives in danger.
>Ok, so why weren't they designated a terrorist organization?
Because BLM isn't a terrorist organization because you think agent provocateurs, who exist in every post movement, means you must label an entire group as a terrorist organization. If you want to use that logic, we should just label all trump supporters terrorists because many of them did a riot on Capital Hill.

[Anonymous No.17471241]

>>17471225
of course you are. the goyim are fed up

[Anonymous No.17471247]

>>17471235
>Because BLM isn't a terrorist organization because you think agent provocateurs, who exist in every post movement, means you must label an entire group as a terrorist organization
Couldn't you say the exact same thing for right wingers though? Why should one be labelled a terrorist organization, and one not? It seems like you're intent on using one-sided logic to ban the people you don't like.

[Anonymous No.17471252]

>>17471247
He is, they usually are.

[Anonymous No.17471260]

>>17471247
There is a double standard between how the MAGA people (any Trump supporter, not just the extreme Qanon or rioter ones) and BLM rioters are treated though. There were a ton of excuses made like "riots are the language of the unheard" and people downplaying the property damage, deaths, or harassment of bystanders in the media while Trump's movement was critically scrutinized.

[Anonymous No.17471264]

>>17471247
>Couldn't you say the exact same thing for right wingers though?
No, because I clearly said those who spread mis-information, like you, should be banned. It is perfectly legal for private corporations to limit use that detrimental to their interests. Censoring you from fucking twitter doesn't true you into being a terrorist - this is a ridiculous false equivalence. You think that violating a TOS, you agreed to, is a violation of your "rights" - rights that never existed. I swear, you people really haven't took a civics class where you think free speech is an unlimited right when no constitutional rights are unlimited. My position is consistent because I consistently utilize the law,

[Anonymous No.17471273]

>>17471260
>Trump's movement was critically scrutinized.
Lmao, this is fucking false. Republicans accused them of being anti-fa. Why the fuck are you lying? Also, the goals of the MAGA people were to overthrow the government; the violence that happened during the BLM protests was specifically against police brutality, and this is also a really dumb claim, when it was revealed that much of that violence was done by the Boogaloo Boys who hate cops too

[Anonymous No.17471276]

>>17471264
the jig's up herschel

[Anonymous No.17471285]

>>17471264
>because I clearly said those who spread mis-information, like you, should be banned. It
But they both spread misinformation (for example, there is no actual evidence of significant systemic racism, yet it's a myth which is constantly perpetuated by the identarian BLMers).

And what false information have I given so far? You're literally just accusing me of spreading false information because I disagree with you. If you can't see this, you're as bad as the people you claim to be better than.

> Censoring you from fucking twitter doesn't true you into being a terrorist - this is a ridiculous false equivalence
No, not really. The internet (well, specifically the large media platforms) is/are the modern public forums, censoring people from these is equivalent to public suppression. These websites need to be regulated by free speech agencies if we actually want to pretend we still possess genuine freedom of expression and discourse.

[Anonymous No.17471292]

>>17471264
>>17471273
Reddit moment

[Anonymous No.17471298]

>>17471273
>the violence that happened during the BLM protests was specifically against police brutality
Do you remember what their slogan was, lol? "Disband the police".

[Anonymous No.17471300]

>>17471273
like 20 people died during the blm summer riots

[Anonymous No.17471302]

>>17471285
>But they both spread misinformation (for example, there is no actual evidence of significant systemic racism,
No, this false, you're lying again
https://www.businessinsider.com/us-systemic-racism-in-charts-graphs-data-2020-6#black-americans-are-underrepresented-in-high-paying-jobs-3
Please, try to debate this with me. I'll destroy you on this.
>And what false information have I given so far?
Everything you say is false.
>No, not really. The internet (well, specifically the large media platforms) is/are the modern public forums, censoring people from these is equivalent to public suppression.
Again, this blantantly false. You need learn what the First Amendment protects. It doesn't protect you breaking contracts, like TOS, where you agree to. Stop being stupid.

[Anonymous No.17471304]

>>17471264
You're consistently a faggot. You only see Free Speech as a law that the government must respect, but clearly have no respect for it in general. Of course people have problems with their Free Speech being violated but as long as it's not illegal there's no problem for you. You're an immoral pest, your people even skirt around the laws in the Talmud whenever possible.

>>17471273
>the goals of the MAGA people were to overthrow the government; the violence that happened during the BLM protests was specifically against police brutality
This isn't twitter. What happed on the 6th was due to election fraud, a clear violation of democracy that the political class and the media fail to even recognize. Again, I'm not even American but it was well justified. I don't know if you're actually an idiot falling for your own propaganda or if you're just being a kike but don't think we don't know better.

[Anonymous No.17471307]

>>17471273
>>17471264
This is some DNC shill Twitter faggot. Where the fuck did you come from?

[Anonymous No.17471309]

>>17471300
Trump supporters killed a police officer, and made an attempt kill several government officials at Capital Hill. The Boogaloos Boys were in involved in causing terrorism during the BLM protests, they're your people

[Anonymous No.17471315]

>>17471302
>https://www.businessinsider.com/us-systemic-racism-in-charts-graphs-data-2020-6#black-americans-are-underrepresented-in-high-paying-jobs-3
Again, that's not evidence of systemic racism, it's evidence of... black people being underrepresented, which could just be due to their tendency to possess low IQs and lack of impulse control (the warrior gene).

You are not very bright. Everything else you've just said is false, there's not much point in me even responding.

[Anonymous No.17471317]

>>17471304
Cry more, faggot. Free speech isn't absolute. Biden won.
>What happed on the 6th was due to election fraud
Literally no proof. You're a retard. Just kill yourself, bro.

[Anonymous No.17471324]

>>17471315
It is evidence, nothing you're saying is true. When presented with evidence that destorys your world view; you just deny. You don't care about facts, but it doesn't matter. Nobody needs to convince a retard like you of anything. You don't have any power. You're a loser who spends all your time on 4chan and not in the real world. Just kill yourself, dude.

[Anonymous No.17471333]

>>17471302
>Please, try to debate this with me. I'll destroy you on this.
Your sophistry won't change the facts Shapiro. It's not decided by concensus, and anyone who doesn't buy into your bullshit knows why blacks are underrepresented in some areas and overrepresented in others. It's obvious no matter how much you and your paid authority figures deny it.

>>17471317
This is what it comes down to when you're challenged. Dismissing me won't make me go away, and if you want me dead you'll have to do it yourself.