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/lit/ - Literature

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17458439 No.17458439 [Reply] [Original]

the pale king is not finished at all. the foreword and introduction makes it out to be all about this administrative conflict in the IRS which david foster wallace did extensive research about, but it ends up barely getting mentioned or resolved at all.

>> No.17458458

>>17458439
anon i'm sorry but that's the joke

I like DFW's short pieces but the novels are just not good

>> No.17458472

>>17458439
What a novel ends up being is never exactly or even mostly what you planned or researched, but, yes, of course it is unfinished. What did you expect?

>> No.17458474

It doesn't matter if DFW did "extensive research." He was an academic who never had a job (or any other experiences) outside the classroom and shouldn't be writing anything about the IRS. He has no real experience or knowledge in the matter.

>> No.17458485

>>17458439
Nah, it is finished. The forward plainly tells you to ignore many of those things which people find "unfinished" about it. Nothing about the forward or the introduction suggest it is about administrative conflict in the IRS, that is a topic which helps carry it but the intro plainly states what it is about and it does so fairly well, despite the shit show the rest of the intro is. Really not a novel for plot fags though, plot is absent.

>> No.17458518

>>17458439
>the foreword and introduction makes it out to be all about this administrative conflict in the IRS
You couldn't write a more boring book holy fuck.

>> No.17458537

>>17458474
>Tolkien wasn't a midget and he never walked into a volcano, he shouldn't write about such things!

>> No.17458636

>>17458518
Nah, OP is either trolling or a plotfag that can not separate setting from message. TPK is anything but boring despite boredom being one of the things it is actually about.

>> No.17458666

>>17458518
That's the whole point man

>> No.17459093

>>17458537
Then, we're agreed. LotR is sloppy trash, anyway.

>> No.17459353

>>17458636
I'm neither, but it seemed like the books would cover more of the historic events surrounding the book, it's fucking true fuck off it seemed like that reading the first part of the book for real

>> No.17459363

>>17459353
>fuck off it seemed like that reading the first part of the book for real
Yup. Plotfag.

>> No.17459432
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17459432

>>17458518
>calling a book boring based on the hearsay of an anonymous poster commenting on the introduction to a book he never even finished
yep this is peak /lit/

>> No.17459462

>>17459363
>>17459432
I read the book and I enjoyed it, I just thought it would cover more of the historical events why do you have to squeeze my shoes?

>> No.17459519

>>17459462
Because everything you say screams plotfag. Nothing wrong with that, plots can be great things, but your complaints are literally about its lack of plot.

>> No.17459527

>>17458518
But shit like this is my jam, the story goes like this - They are fighting for automation, so Their plan is to find out what the human element is and why the select few's concetration skills are good enough to rival Their machines.

It's all behind the scenes because it's literally beyond a simple man's comprehension, why you never get the sense that Pointsman is in charge of anything until you see him at the actual conspiracy meeting in GR and the like.

>> No.17459618

>>17459519
I didn't complain about a lack of plot, I just said that I expected the book to describe the historical events behind it more, which he basically said the book will be about in the foreword, he used the word memoirs

>> No.17459684

>>17459618
>memoirs
Exactly, it is a lie, we know it is not a memoir. The purpose of the forward is to say don't read for plot, it lies to you just as I am. He out right states, the facts are unimportant and often wrong. You literal read the forward from the standpoint of plot even though it tells you not too.

>> No.17459696

>>17459684
no you are wrong and I am not fuck off I reread it I am right kys. He said he tried to describe the events but also make it interesting which is why he embellishes fuck off fuck off you piss me off so much

>> No.17459728

>>17459696
So it does not matter that the premise of the forward is built on a lie and he tells you outright that the book is filled with errors? You are missing the point of the forward and obsessing over plot elements.

>> No.17459740

>>17459618
>>17459696
>>17459728
this is the most interesting reddit argument i have ever read and i meant to type 4chan but i typed reddit not to make fun of you guys but because i actually was just on reddit myself so really i am making funf of myself here and that's coming from me and i am also on lsd right now if that helps

>> No.17459799

>>17459728
It's like this guy said
>>17458472
it's clear that david planned to get more into the history behind it, maybe he changed his mind halfway through, maybe he killed himself before finishing but I'm right and you can suck my dick

>> No.17459823

>>17458474
>[DFW] shouldn't be writing anything about the IRS
>he has no real experience or knowledge in the matter
Doesn't every American with income have to file their own income tax returns?

>> No.17459832

>>17459823
Not that guy, but a bit like saying you can write about the sea if you've played around with the bathroom faucet, innit?

>> No.17459850

>>17459832
you can write about a lake if you've swam in it every year since you started working and you're 30+, retard.

>> No.17459878

>>17459850
Yeah, but filing your taxes has nothing to do with working for the IRS and implementing policy there.

I'm not convinced. Retard.

>> No.17459944

>>17458518
That is literally the point of the book.

I haven't read Infinite Jest, but as I understand it one of the core values promoted is that excessive entertainment (in the form of television etc, but also in the form of drug-taking and so on) is ultimately damaging. The Pale King is sort of a sequel in that it takes off from that point and offers a solution, namely that an individual living in a highly complex society which allows him to live an historically comfortable, secure existence (although this isn't to say poverty isn't still rampant, etc) necessarily involves the daily sacrifice of countless people to maintain such a complex social system. Whereas the individual addicted to entertainment and so on would ideally view his own idealised life as one which involved maximum pleasure and also a great deal of attention and praise for performing good acts, Wallace illustrates the fact that heroism is really found in the mundane, in the sacrifices of countless anonymous little people who spend nine or so hours each day applying their talent and energy towards making society a better place. Whereas the entertainment addict is encouraged (as I understand it) to reject the kind of selfishness which is necessary to live a life simply addicted to one's own pleasure, he is here offered an alternative path (like the David Wallace character in the book, who is a burned-out nihilist who bums around and happens to stumble upon an accounting lecture) which involves embracing boredom and transcending it, in sacrificing one's time and effort for the benefit of others, in not trying to be the guy who beats the queue of traffic by cutting in because the benefit such an action is not conducive to sustaining such a complex society and only allows short-term, selfish pleasure to the one who does so. I really enjoyed the book, and the chapter about the two young people at the lake discussing abortion is particularly memorable.

>> No.17459955

>>17459799
>it's clear that david planned to get more into the history behind it
I don't think he did, that stuff drops off as the plot falls apart and it does so much in the same way as it does in Infinite Jest, you hit almost a hard line where new information regarding plot elements cease and the novel shits. He does not make as hard of a transition in The Pale King and sort of separates the end of one from the beginning of the other. I think the waistoid novella would be the dividing line and a big wide blurry dividing line at that, but it has been a few years since I have read it.

>> No.17460030

>>17459944
The Pale King's relation to Infinite Jest is more the other extreme, the lack of entertainment (boredome) vs too much and how society relates to that. I would not say you are wrong, you just are building your view off of a book which you have not read yet and introducing in a number flaws. Give Infinite Jest a read, you won't have to reach quite as far for your view afterwords.

>> No.17461119

>>17458537
>braindead take

Tolkien did actually fight in a war, see the endless ocean of land that is Africa. If you're at the point where you can only write accurate autobiographic accounts literature is dead.

>> No.17462108

>>17459696
Holy kek