/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17360407]

which character do you identify the most with?

For me its Smerdyakov. Intelligent, nihilistic, and a wicked sense of humor.

[Anonymous No.17360425]

For me it's Ivan. Mad procastrinator planning suicide at 30.

[Anonymous No.17360441]

>>17360407
Alyosha. Christ is King

[Anonymous No.17360453]

>>17360407
Dmitrii when I'm in love, Ivan when I'm alone
I'm trying to avoid the excesses of both

[Anonymous No.17360480]

>>17360407
In my rare best moments it's Alyosha, but most of the time combining Ivan's neuroticism with Dmitri's concupiscence and inability to delay gratification

[Anonymous No.17360483]

>>17360453
slighy similar to this. dmitry when im in love, ivan when im in deep conversation or contemplation, and fyodor, minus his most evil traits, the rest of the time. really the only character im not like at all is alyosha.

[Anonymous No.17360488]

>>17360407
Smedyakov. ugly suicidal pseudo intellectual social mutant

[Anonymous No.17360506]

what the fuck was up with dmitrys reasoning behind keeping the money around his neck? "If i dont spend it all im not a thief." uh... what?

Also i didnt like, nor feel like i was similar to, dmitry at all until he recounts how he wanted katerina to notice him. That struck a chord with me. Dmitry and Katerina's "love" is quite toxic.

[Anonymous No.17360507]

>>17360407
ивaн
on a side note, I truly pity anyone who hasn't read this masterpiece

[Anonymous No.17360511]

>>17360507
im more of a fan of notes and c&p desu though all of them and the idiot should be mandatory /lit/ reading.

[Anonymous No.17360535]

>>17360407
I think these characters are supposed to represent aspects of humanity rather than real types of people. Nobody is really entirely like Alyosha or Dmitri, Ivan is a bit more realistic but still kind of one-note, but it is very easy to identify with all 3 of them at times. Dmitri is ruled by passion, Ivan by reason, and Alyosha by spirituality. Fyodor is just the sinful nature of men in general, which all the brothers have in their Karamazov blood. Smerdyakov is a bit more ambiguous, he is cast out of society as a bastard, consumed by hatred, pride, and nihilism, and has pretensions towards philosophy. Dostoevsky would never hate a character like this or wholly condemn him, but I don't quite understand the significance of his murder of Fyodor or his suicide, except that it is a kind of retribution against man for his sins by the monster they create.

The family dynamic is also a commentary on 'old Russia' and the social changes going on but I think this is a secondary layer to the religious aspect.

[Anonymous No.17360569]

>>17360535
to me, smer killing fyodor was kind of a repeat of the raskolnikov plot (not that thats a bad thing to reuse ideas from other novels). smer was testing his/ivan's theory of all things being lawful (on top of probably not wanting to be a servant anymore as taking the money was a core aspect of his murder). Some people see smer killing himself as a realization that all things are NOT lawful and that killing Fyodor was actually a horrible thing he wont be able to morally come back from. But i see it as Smer concluding that nihilism IS the answer to life and only thing left is to commit suicide.

[Anonymous No.17360594]

>>17360407
Is this the greatest novel ever written?

[Anonymous No.17360626]

>>17360535
>but I don't quite understand the significance of his murder of Fyodor or his suicide
that's arguably one of the most important points of the novel
one of the themes is that each of the Karamazov children are at odds with trying to escape the abyss of their father's influence - each of them are forced to confront this in their named chapters. Smerdyakov, being the only one raised closest to old man Fyodor is ironically the most warped of the family by far, reflected both in his physical aspect as well as his personality.
There is an irony in that a man who revels in hedonism, degeneracy and pure, unadulterated evil like Fyodor be destroyed by the product of said evil, which originated from the rape of a holy fool, which in Dosto's novels is consistently framed as the highest form of crime, characteristic of those who are far beyond redemption
Smerdyakov's actions, however, serve as the catalyst for both Ivan and Dmitrii's redemptions. By putting into practice Ivan's theories (without God, everything is permitted) and Ivan, by silently "consenting" to Fyodor's murder, the effect that a guilty conscience has on the human psyche is made clear (as also seen in C&P) and Ivan realises the error in his views. Rodja sought to forgo God and morality to become an overman, while Ivan sought to do so because he could not accept suffering as a part of a world in which God exists. Ivan's mental breakdown is the necessary suffering by which his redemption may be completed.
The same applies to Dmitrii, who suffers through imprisonment and a trial in which he his found guilty for a crime he didn't commit (exemplifying how fallible human justice is compared to divine justice, who correctly points the finger at Ivan and Smerdyakov, as well as Dmitrii for - wanting - Fyodor dead, despite not actually committing the act).
Smer killing himself may be yet another manifestation of this cross, this guilt that he carries (as Smer and Ivan's conversations progress, so do their physical states worsen) or simply the end goal of the true nihilist (a parallel may be made with Demons' Kirillov).

[Anonymous No.17360643]

>>17360626
beautifully said, anon

[Anonymous No.17360653]

>>17360626
this

[Anonymous No.17360781]

Ivan probably.

[Anonymous No.17360883]

>>17360488
HAHAHAHA FAGGOT WE EVEN ARE LAUGHING AT YOU ON FUCKING 4CHAN YOU FAGGOT LOSER

[Anonymous No.17361363]

>>17360425
bros, did Ivan make it at the end? I want him to have a great life with Kat

[Anonymous No.17361371]

>>17361363
No one gets better in Dostoevsky's novels.

[Anonymous No.17361472]

Ivan ofc. Based schizoid and didn't do anything wrong.

[Anonymous No.17361496]

Smerdyakov with delusions of being Ivan

Jk Im not an atheist but I dont get along with people so I cant say Alyosha

[Anonymous No.17361507]

>>17361496
>Im not an atheist

[Anonymous No.17361597]

>>17360594
>Is this the greatest novel ever written?

It is a contender but it does have its share of flaws. To me, the book is bloated and definitely required editing in parts, especially the latter half. Thematically, the book is amazing and whenever I think about it or reread certain sections, I discover something new within the book, humanity, or myself. This was one of those books which I didn't want to end because of how great the highs were but there were chapters which I wanted to end because I just didn't care about the current narrative. Namely, Dmitry's night out and the subsequent police interview.

[Anonymous No.17361622]

>>17361507
>being an atheist
reddit moment

[Anonymous No.17361890]

>>17360407
None although Kolya reminded me of myself when I was his age and I had a certain amount of sympathy for Dmitri.

[Anonymous No.17362086]

>>17361890
I couldn't help cringing at Kolya

[Anonymous No.17362110]

>>17362086
Was a bit cringe when I was 13 too.

[Anonymous No.17362169]

>>17360407
Yes I liked Smerdyakov he was very interesting. He seemed like a character that flew to close to the sun and underestimated the dilemma of nihilism at the time. I also really like Kolya and the school kids, and Alyosha. They were probably my favorites. I unironically liked the father Karamazov as well, maybe he just seemed like a 4chan sperg.

[Anonymous No.17362316]

>>17362169
>I unironically liked the father Karamazov as well

nigga everyone likes fyodor

[Anonymous No.17362729]

Grushenka.

[Anonymous No.17362734]

>>17362729
youre a gold digging whore? based

[Anonymous No.17362759]

>>17360883
>we
kill yourself

[Anonymous No.17362795]

ivan but i'm a lot dumber. so maybe alyosha without the faith.

[Anonymous No.17362809]

>>17362086
>I couldn't help cringing at Kolya
god what a fucking cringelord.

>friends and family gather to see ilyusha on his on his death bed
>koyla finds a way to make it about himself and to remind everyone he is a 200 iq rick and morty watcher

[Anonymous No.17362822]

>>17360407
You do realize though that not only was Smerdyakov nihilistic, he completely hated the world and himself. A bastard son rejected by his father, being forced into Christian faith at young age and also rejected by the only person he thought felt the same way he did because Ivan refused to ever look at him as an equal. Unironically get help if you see yourself in Smerdyakov.

[Anonymous No.17362854]

>>17360506
>"If i dont spend it all im not a thief."
That was just his way to cope. At the end of the day he needed back up money to be able to start a new life with Grushenka incase he won’t be able to get money from his inheritance.

[Anonymous No.17362893]

>>17362822
And add that he had seizures. My last gf had those once a week. Not fun. It was cause of this that I left her. I was tired of shit.

[Anonymous No.17363028]

I wonder what their personality types are.
Alyosha = INFJ/INFP?
Ivan = INTP/INTJ?
Dimitri = ESFP?
Smerdyakov = ISTJ?
Fyodor = ESTP?
Can someone who is actually into this personality shit help me out here?

[Anonymous No.17363043]

>>17362822
Is Smerdyakov 4chan incarnate?
Is Smerdyakov our guy?

[Anonymous No.17363050]

>>17363028
Fyodor reads as an ENFP to me

[Anonymous No.17363054]

>>17363028
Myer's Brigg's is astrology for pseuds

[Anonymous No.17363137]

>>17363054
>nooo you can’t just observe different patterns of behavior and create a framework to categorize it reeeeeeeeeeeee

[Anonymous No.17363143]

>>17362822
Poor smerdy. If only he had read nietzsche.

[Anonymous No.17363157]

Reminder that there is an alternate universe where The Life of a Great Sinner exists and we're not a part of it.

[Anonymous No.17363168]

>>17363050
I think you might be right, I totally forgot about the scene Fyodor caused at the monastery when I was writing that post.

[Anonymous No.17363183]

>>17363143
He read Ivan’s article about the church court so that’s close enough.

[Anonymous No.17363186]

>>17363157
>"...but the trouble is that while I have just one biography, I have two novels. The main novel is the second one--about the activities of my hero in our time, that is, in our present, current moment. As for the first novel, it already took place thirteen years ago and is even almost not a novel at all but just one moment from my hero's early youth. It is impossible for me to do without the first novel, or much in the second novel will be incomprehensible."

Not only was Brothers Karamazov the first part of a two-part story that followed Alyosha, Dostoevsky implies that the second part would have been the greater and more important part. We got fucking gipped.

[Anonymous No.17363214]

Apparently Stalin read it several times, and his copy of the novel have a lot of notes in the margin

Was Stalin /lit/?

[Anonymous No.17363506]

>>17363137
That is LITERALLY astrology

[Anonymous No.17363629]

>>17363214
Most early XX century politicians were.

[Anonymous No.17363652]

something that caught me off guard is how i managed to feel genuine pity for fyador. there's something just so sad and pathetic about the image of him pacing back and forth desperately waiting for a woman who doesn't give the slightest shit about him, only to end up being bludgeoned to death. I know he's a huge piece of shit and had it coming, but I feel like there's some sort of shattered innocence or something that shines through in that moment and it makes me sad and makes me want to make the world a better place

[Anonymous No.17363674]

>>17363028
>MBTI
ascend to Socionics, plebeian

[Anonymous No.17363676]

>>17360407
Alyosha, I'm sentimental

[Anonymous No.17363694]

>>17363028
Alyosha is definitely an INFP. Ivan, an INTJ

[Anonymous No.17363713]

>>17363652
I was waiting for that moment where Fyodor gets some actual redemptive qualities and this image, which I also pretty much had the same thoughts of, was one of the "closest" as far the second half of the book is concerned. The first three chapters or so show at least two others: he does genuinely seem to feel bad whenever Smerdyakov has an epileptic episode and he also loves Alyosha. Now, "becoming a pathetic unloved loser" is not really a "redemptive quality" by any means, and he was an evil hedonist even in his youth, but it at least shows why he probably never grew out of being a horrible person. Nobody showed him any real love in his adult life.

[Anonymous No.17363732]

>>17360407
just realized that Dostoevsky named fyodor after him because he is the worst character in the story and Zossima, who represents Dostoevsky's religious beliefs, says to his monks that they need to consider themselves the worst of sinners. So Dostoevsky is indirectly telling his readers that he believes he is the worst of sinners.

[Anonymous No.17363751]

>>17363732
Alyosha is also the name of Fyodor's actual child.

[Anonymous No.17363853]

I really want to re-read it guys. But I am still in the first hundred pages of a 800 pages book and college is restarting next week and I have 9 classes.
I got no time for a /lit/ life broskis.

[Anonymous No.17363875]

>>17363853
I don't miss uni at all
I'm getting so much reading done now

[Anonymous No.17363885]

>>17363713
yea, i wouldnt say it redeemed him or anything, I think it just showed a certain spark of humanity underneath all his shityness and i guess it just made me feel like I wish i could somehow help people reach their potential and keep them from living such a crappy self destructive life. It made me feel sadness and pity for some of the shitty people in the world instead of just frustration or outright anger

[Anonymous No.17363902]

I really was Alyosha about five years ago. I miss it, I was really alive then desu.

[Anonymous No.17363903]

>>17363885
which i guess fits pretty well among the general theme of forgiveness and taking on the burden of others sins

[Anonymous No.17363985]

>>17360626
Do you agree Smerdyakov would be how Ivan would have ended without noble birth? For me Ivan's struggle always felt fake because "ops, can't let a proud son of old mother Russia end up like that!"

[Anonymous No.17364162]

>>17363028
only INTJs can have consciousness

[Anonymous No.17364170]

>>17363143
>if he had only not been purposefully build straw-man

[Anonymous No.17364249]

>>17363506
It's not though, astrology pattern-matches to arbitrary time divisions of the year. these personality tests don't do that, they just try to measure your personality based on a handful of metrics. They're probably mostly bullshit but it's not remotely the same thing as astrology

[Anonymous No.17364876]

>ilyushka's funeral

[Anonymous No.17364967]

>>17361363
Katerina was the kind of girl who would cut your dick off because she dreamed you were cheating on her. If Ivan regained sanity and ended up with her it would be a toxic relationship that would probably drive him further into his spiritual desperation. Devoting yourself to love of a person who’s crazy enough to basically doom your brother to exile in a bizarre attempt to save your name from being slightly besmirched is asking for disaster down the line.

[Anonymous No.17364991]

>>17364967
I was about to disagree with you about how Katya is that kind of girl, I feel like Grushenka is closer to what you described, but really both girls, and Liza too, are like that. The only guy who really wins at the end is Perkhotin because he gets rich milf pussy.

[Anonymous No.17365001]

>>17362734
After her encounter with Alyosha she was one of the best characters though, and recognized her faults.
Was it ever actually confirmed she was a slut? I know that was the rumor because she was headstrong but I don’t remember them going into that much detail.

[Anonymous No.17365010]

>>17365001
I dont think its ever confirmed or denied but I could be wrong. It does make you wonder how she even started a relationship with Fyodor tho if she was NOT a prostitute to begin with.

[Anonymous No.17365012]

>>17364170
>strawman
People like Smerdyakov really do exist though

[Anonymous No.17365074]

>>17365010
the slut thing was a rumor
grushenka was highly desired by the local men, but enjoyed playing coquette rather than outright giving herself to others
she was raised to be an opportunist and a businesswoman, not a whore

[Anonymous No.17365811]

>>17365012
no one commits murders because of incorrectly understanding "rotten" western ideologies, or in other cases "to test a theory". this is pure Dostoevskian fantasy.

[Anonymous No.17365851]

>>17365811
What about out of a lifetime of rage against your evil father who raped your mom and then forced you to be a servant he ignored

[Anonymous No.17365865]

>>17360407
Kalganov.

[Anonymous No.17365994]

>>17365811
And now you’re the one making a straw man because that is not the motive why he killed him. The first anon who replied to you basically explains the whole motive. The ideology is just a cope to justify the action he already wanted to commit regardless of the ideology itself.

[Anonymous No.17366002]

>>17365865
Who the fuck is he ?

[Anonymous No.17366047]

>>17366002
Pyotr Fomich Kalganov. Better reread buddy, he's the most important character.

[Anonymous No.17366055]

>>17363043
Underground Man is 4chan incarnate, Smerdyakov actually kills someone which is too proactive

[Anonymous No.17366145]

>>17365994
its honestly disturbing how many people I see using nihilism and other ideas that spawned from it over the years to justify and moralize awful destructive behavior, usually out of some sense of cost-sunk fallacy or just a general fear of being pressured to improve themselves and whatever discomfort and pain comes with doing so.
its so fucked up to see people you care about become miserable and enter a downward spiral and all the while do everything they can to make their situation worse

[Anonymous No.17366165]

>>17366145
literally me

[Anonymous No.17366205]

>>17366047
No he isn't. But seriously I have no memories of him. He probably just appeared for a couple of pages.

[Anonymous No.17366279]

>>17366165
I dont know if you are identifying with my perspective or those that I mentioned, but if its the later then know that self awareness and seeing through the comforting lies we tell ourselves is the first step to becoming better, and its one step that many people seem to be way too invested to take, so if you got that far then good for you

[Anonymous No.17366297]

>>17366047
was kalganov miusov?

[Anonymous No.17366325]

>>17363028
Brother Karamazov typologies and archetypes
4 temperaments.
Sanguine. Dmitri
Melancholic. Alisoha
Phlegmatic. Ivan
Choleric. Fyodr (Maybe sanguine instead, I read the book a long time ago)

I'm not sure on Smerdyakov, by the moment will go for the Choleric, but kinda fit the Phlegmatic goes all in.
Kolya is clearly of Choleric temperance. Father Zosima is of the Sanguine type in accord the story of his youth, he learned where to direct his energy.

Fyodr is the histrionic/petty man
Dmitri is the passionate/pecaminous man
Ivan is the intellectual/philosophic man
Ivan is the pious man/the saint (more exactly the acolyte of the saint at the beginning of the story in respect of Father Zosima)

[Anonymous No.17366331]

>>17366325
>>17363028
Ivan is an obvious INTJ. Great man wannabe complex, wants to be recognized. His cognition clearly go the way of NiTe: Pragmatical/empyrichal (Te) but philosophically alegoric, convergent and dream feverish (Ni). He hides but doesn't neglect his value system. (Tertiary Fi).
Enneatype could be 5w6/5w4 or some 3w4

Dmitri is a ESFP. Very sensual, action-oriented and of quick reflexess. He's motivated by what he cares/wants or what he thinks is ought to be (Fi). Can get trapped on a univocal vision (Inferior Ni).
Ennea is 7w6

This is the tricky one: Aliosha. By gut instincts I go for INFP. He appears to other as saint/Christlike figure and his silenty/unintend of judge others, as well as his body mannerism can be percieved of a INFJ, but one has to see how is that and why he forms the way he acts tilt to Fi. Also, how even when he tries to take control/avoid of the disasters and beheivours of his brothers yet he is unable to manifest it could indicate inferior Te. Also the way he see the world not as the scope of Ni but on the dream of what is should be and he's stress over it's imperfection over the ideal can be a good argument in favor of FiNe.
Ennea is clear: 9. 9w1 over 9w8.

Fyodr is ESTP. The logical opportunist/street smart (SeTi) with very theatrical inclinations (Tertiary Fe).
Ennea is 7w8/8w7

[Anonymous No.17366335]

>>17363028
>>17366331
Kolya is ENTJ. Very aware of the power of the physical (Se) and the place of hierarchy and how make it work yet TeNi driven. Phoby on weakness blinds his empathy (inferior Fi). The young dictator/the commander archtype to grow into the caring leader, develop compassion.
Ennea is clearly 8w7

One of the hardest to type: Father Zosima. Appears to be some kind of ESTP who through insight (Ni) transforms itself (sensual and belicous Se) to the prophet/spiritual guidance (NiFe/FeNi dupla). Clearly strong Fe (very percieving of others and can make things work through it) and well versed spacial/gymanstic and real perception of the physical and its implications on people (strong Se). He may appear sometimes by the way he's archetyped as some weird INFJ, but he's too externally exentric (strong Se) to assure that. So we are left with ENFJ and matured ESTP. For consistency I go with ENFJ.

This is the other one I am least sure. Smeryadov may be some affected ISTP. TiSe oriented on the way of making things work, hard paranoia (Ni), and probably inferior Fe. Goes on TiNi tunnel over philosophy and put's it to action due tu desperation (Se). 6w5 Enneatype


Dmitri is clearly a fire sign. Have the Saggitarius corporal air, but the themes might go the way of Leo.
Aliosha is a water sign. The theme of the self-sacrifice, the "sensibility and quietness" could spoke of Piscis, the dreamer. Maybe even kinda Libra.
Ivan I'm not sure if Earth sign (only for Capricorn) or Air Sign (Virgo). The other ones are more of wild and quick takes: Smerydaykov (Virgo/Cancer goes wrong), Kolya (Aries), Zosima (Matured Aries/Saggitarius?/Acuarius??), Fyodr (Leo?/Tarus?)

I'm not versed on Tarot so I had to check (only Major Arcana, sorry): Dmitri (Temperance), Ivan (The Hermit), Aliosha (The Hanged Man), Fydor (The Devil), Smerdyakov (The Moon), Kolya (The Strenght/Chariot).

[Anonymous No.17366339]

>>17366331
This post inspired me to leave this board.

[Anonymous No.17366341]

>>17366325
>Ivan is the pious man/the saint (more exactly the acolyte of the saint at the beginning of the story in respect of Father Zosima)
>Ivan
Meant to say Aliosha

[Anonymous No.17366351]

>>17366339
You asked for this autism.

[Anonymous No.17366373]

>>17360407
I think I'm Ivan, but my old lady neighbor who used to be a french lit professor said I am Alyosha. What does this mean?

[Anonymous No.17366384]

>>17366373
She was throwing a Grushenka to you.

[Anonymous No.17366387]

>>17366373
nice old lady neighbors often see the best in people

[Anonymous No.17366401]

>>17366331
You're right about Alyosha being an INFP. You should look into socionics, which provides a better system regarding the cognitive functions (in socionics, FiNe is INFj.)
Alyosha, speaking in Jung's terms, is clearly an Fi ego. The core of his character has to do with human relationships. Prince Mishkin shares the same type. Both characters represent a christian ideal, but placed in different contexts. Mishkin is ill, Alyosha is healthy and lively, but their psyche functions the same way: by 'bringing' people together.
I agree on the enneagram assessments.

[Anonymous No.17366458]

>>17366401
Very interesting input. I have yet to read the Idiot. Maybe it'll be my next read.

Mmm, do you know other characters or books with an interesting Fi ego character?
Would you say main charaters of Hesse works share too that psyche functions? Like for example Emil Sinclair from Demian?

[Anonymous No.17366499]

>>17366458
Following Jung's observations on the introverted feeling type, I think Jane Eyre is a pretty good fit, almost archetypal. I think the first person narration makes it even clearer.
I don't really remember much about Demian since I read it many years ago. However I remember Steppenwolf vividly. He is either an IEI or an ILI in socionics (INTJ or INFJ in MBTI, by analogy.)
It's interesting how the typological archetypes play out in literature. I recommend socionics because as a system is makes the relationships between types and functions clearer, it also puts forward the idea of 'duality' which is very central in Jung's original work, but completely discarded by MBTI. You should look at wikisocion if it interests you.

[Anonymous No.17366622]

>>17366499
>It's interesting how the typological archetypes play out in literature.

Yes, I noticed this too. Clasification of people is as a way to understand how life works hasalso been real preocupation for writers for a while (ala Balzac, Zola), very magnetic in my opinion.
I'll check the wiki. Another thing tht always bothered me was about the tying of Dostoievsky and Tolstoy. It's said they both were INFJ (NiFe), and while I can understand it as the big scope they go on humanitiy in their works, both of them always appeared to me as very distint. Not only the style, nor the way they strcture the story for the reader and th treat of their characters (Dostoievski's 'dramatism, intesity, interior subjetivism' and Tolstoy's 'panoramic sutility and long-ranged projectivity).
A very different sensibility I'll say. I get Tolstoy as a very classical INFJ (NiFe), but for Dosto it appears off. Are both the same 'type´? Is Dosto really a INFJ? There's a Fi "phantasm" that permeates his work when I read them. The wey he introspects main characters, very Fi-"ish". Like essentialist or even ontologically rigid on the valuative.

[Anonymous No.17366675]

>>17360407
the grand inquisitor AHHH!!!

[Anonymous No.17366729]

>>17366675
ALYOSHA HELP IM GOING INSANE

[Anonymous No.17366839]

>Smerdyakov
I throughout the entire novel I couldn’t escape the image of Smerdyakov as Randall from Recess

[Anonymous No.17366866]

>>17366839
I can see it, kek. Why was Dosto so cruel with him?

[Anonymous No.17366879]

>>17366839
top kek. I wish I thought of this

[Anonymous No.17367620]

>>17366622
He's the archetype for EII (FiNe) in socionics.

[Anonymous No.17367639]

>>17366675
I still cant quite figure out the grand inquisitor. the entire thing makes sense as a projection of Ivans frustrations regarding the "why bad thing happen" question, but then you get to the end where jesus kisses the inquisitor as some sort of mic drop moment and it leaves me feeling like the story is pushing the opposite message that Ivan has been trying to communicate up until that point. I feel like I must have misinterpreted it

[Anonymous No.17367683]

>>17360425
This but I'm 30 and haven't done it and neither would Ivan desu, he's full of it.

[Anonymous No.17367722]

>>17367639
The grand inquisitor was a lamentation of the way in which Jesus thinks too highly of us. It goes through all the ways in which jesus, had he been tempted by satan, could essentially have made it incredibly easy for everyone to believe and submit to God, instead he gave us the almost terrible choice to come to him of our own volition, which the grand inquisitor argues the majority of individuals will not be able to do. That they aren't strong enough to heed the call. Had Jesus become a literal king, or brought bread, or did insane miracles to convince everyone, then it would not have been a choice on our behalf as it would have been self-evident that Jesus was in fact the son of God. Jesus thinks too highly of us. And the kiss at the end is a reaffirmation of this terrible freedom. Ironically He has not come to change anything, his message is still the same. It doesn't matter what the Grand inquisitor (a human) i.e such as Ivans "why bad thing happen to children," or the Grand inquisitors, "why you make it hard to believe," because these are beyond human comprehension all one can do is submit to the infinite wisdom and love of God, and receive his kiss meekly and piously. Trust that this freedom of choice is just and perfect. Obviously, this is hard to do, like it is to accept this freedom that God has given us, so that's why he kicks him out and has a hissy fit at the end irrc. This is how I interpreted it.

[Anonymous No.17367730]

Aleksej: young, religious and sentimental.
>>17363054
so? bring your muh science somewhere else.

[Anonymous No.17367732]

>>17360453
Pretty much this.

[Anonymous No.17367744]

I could never pick a single one. They are all grotesque caricatures with one personality trait. It's like picking a Hogwarts school. Pulp

[Anonymous No.17367804]

>>17367639
alyosha is incapable of refuting Ivan's intellectual arguments; in Dosto's view, however, "losing" the argument does not mean being on the wrong side: "choosing between God and the truth, I would choose God"
roughly speaking, Dosto admits that atheistic and nihilistic points of view are frequently supported by near flawless reasoning, which however must still be rejected as an affirmation of life and meaning in the universe. Alyosha's kiss is just that, something that comes from the soul rather than an intellectual argument. Dosto does have a pretty valid point, in that unrestrained rationalism may indeed bring about abhorrent consequences to humanity as a whole. After all, as per the famous episode of the temptations in the desert, faith is something to be practiced "blindly", without a need for rational proof

[Anonymous No.17368049]

>>17367804
>>17367722
aah yes that makes sense, thank you for clearing that up for me

[Anonymous No.17368169]

Smerdyakov was not intelligent, he's the most stupid out of the three. Now sure how you came away with the take that he was intelligent.

[Anonymous No.17368184]

>>17368169
Op is ironic and what do you mean by out of the three?

[Anonymous No.17368195]

>>17368169
He was the smartest brother, it's just that he was so nauseatingly autistic that he came across as retarded.

[Anonymous No.17368454]

>>17368184
I meant compared to the other three brothers.

[Anonymous No.17368486]

>>17360407
Smerdyakov literally means 'son of a no-good redneck/serf'.If you go absolutely literallist, it means 'Reekson', as in sweat or shit reeks.
You are explicitly not expected to like him, the surnames in Russian lit are big red shining neon Ben Garrison signboards.

[Anonymous No.17368606]

>>17368169
He actually is smart though. He masterminded an entire murder and flawlessly put the blame on another person. He is seen throughout his youth being a fan of intellectual discussion and reading. He just happens to be total autist and a pathetic loser so its easy to see him as being an idiot. Ivan refuses to see Smerdyakov as smart up until the very end of the book.

[Anonymous No.17369470]

>>17368486
I thought it mean stinky?