Are there any normie liberals on /lit/? Not natsocs, ancaps, MLs and ultra-leftists, just mainstream liberals? Who are your favorite liberal philosophers?

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Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:31:10 2021 No.17338455 [Reply] [Original]

Are there any normie liberals on /lit/? Not natsocs, ancaps, MLs and ultra-leftists, just mainstream liberals? Who are your favorite liberal philosophers?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:33:02 2021 No.17338464 no liberalism is gross, 4chan is subtle ergo radical. the radical has no use for the gross

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:43:00 2021 No.17338529

I find myself attracted to radical ideologies, but in reality I am basically a liberal centrist, maybe a bit more capitalist than socialist, a bit more libertarian than authoritarian, but basically a demsoc liberal. I have nothing wrong with LGBT people, I consider myself anti-racist, but I am also pro-free speech, extending to dangerous ideologies like Nazism, pro-gun rights, somewhat social darwinist, but also pro-universal healthcare and a believer in the social contract's care for its disempowered people.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:46:06 2021 No.17338554 >>17338455 No, normies don't hang in 4chan, anon. I don't really read much of those kind of things, so it is not like I know anyone. This would probably be a better thread on /pol/.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:46:16 2021 No.17338555 >>17338529 Sounds Nozickian anon. I kind of swang through all the authoritarian ideologies, but in the end I just realized that populism inevitably ends in disappointment and creates a lot of harm to society.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:47:46 2021 No.17338571 >>17338455 4chan is now a pro-Biden site in respect of the law of might making right. heil sleepy joe

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:50:14 2021 No.17338588

>>17338555
No. Nozick's brand of libertarianism has no interest in extending a hand to disempowered peoples. My socialist tendencies tell me the top 1%, even the top 10% have no right to live like that while others suffer. I do not buy into the capitalist hype of managers and CEOs justifying their price. I am very pro-union as well, even if I believe in the basic tenants of a free market meritocracy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:51:09 2021 No.17338597 >>17338571 this joke is too meta

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:51:09 2021 No.17338598 >>17338455 Me, but I've only read leftist and rightist literature and it all seemed like cope and utopian which made me a liberal in the end. What are some good liberal philosophers?

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:57:04 2021 No.17338640

I know a guy who is a hardcore classical liberal and big American patriot and very intelligent. Some of the authors he has mentioned being fond of are Dewey and Rorty. He has a very individualistic, kind of benignly Stirnerist reading of Nietzsche. He is a humanist but an atheist and essentially a moral nihilist, and he seems to be a social contract theorist of some kind at base. There are also tinges of American republicanism and patriotism, he seems to genuinely believe in fighting for liberty and democracy.

His political views remind me of William James' "once-born" individual, naturally optimistic. Optimistic about human nature and capacity to form relatively stable contractual polities like democracies, optimistic about the infectious nature of such democracy and liberalism (but not a war hawk either), optimistic that most people basically want to be left alone to pursue their own life goals and these need not come into conflict if you have a good system in place to prevent abuses and extremes.

I don't really understand his worldview and we disagree on a lot. He and I quarreled over Trump/Biden. I am a conservative populist and right wing and I saw Trump as both a symptom of a dying system and a potential (and imperfect) first step toward replacing it. He genuinely thinks Biden is a return to political normalcy, stability, decency. He thinks the deep state shit is conspiracy tier and the government is just corrupt, and that people like me are making mountains out of molehills when we claim that perennial swampiness is some kind of crisis of civilisation. We also split strongly on the demographic issue. I'm not race-obsessed but I think flooding the UK with rapist Pakistanis is probably bad. He is a "we're all the same on the inside, globalism will eventually create a nice liberal world even if there are bumps along the way and vulture capitalism is regrettable" type.

The funny thing is, many of his rich coastal elite friends see him as the token "conservative" because he's a moderate liberal and not a rabid progressive. Even though he's an optimistic liberal with no real concerns about immigration, demographics, or progressivism (he assumes it's just the normal dialectic of liberalism doing its thing), simply because he's not a tranny bathroom obsessed guy, they think he's fairly far right.

>>17338529
Similar here, I am far right with dashes of far left but I don't believe in totalitarianism. Ultimately I just want every country to be Denmark.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 18:58:05 2021 No.17338646

>>17338554
>>17338598
I tried linking some starter stuff in /pol/ and I guess I got saged by some seething fascists lol. They are the angriest sjws I've ever seen.

I really like Rawls, read Justice as Fairness try to understand his theory and principles of justice. There's Nozick if you want a more classical liberal critique of him. There's also Amartya Sen for rational choice theory, which seems to be next step in political analytical philosophy.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:01:15 2021 No.17338666 >>17338588 >My socialist tendencies tell me the top 1%, even the top 10% have no right to live like that while others suffer. Yikes. Suffering is an inherent experience to life. You may as well lament sexual-urges.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:02:13 2021 No.17338674

>>17338646
What about Hans Blumenberg for theories of mediation of conflict and alterity under liberalism? There's also Habermas of course.

I like some of the libertarian writers more now that I've gotten into them.

One thing I wish liberals would actually read is J.S. Mill's On Liberty. The chapter on liberty of thought and discussion is one of the greatest monuments of European civilisation. Shame we never internalised it as a value. A tiny minority of people who actually give a fuck have understood the value of free speech over the last 200 years, but the bulk of so-called liberal society is just along for the ride and still acting on puritan impulses to purge outsiders and occasionally have a bacchanalian moral panic over some convenient scapegoat.

>>17338666
>666
Fitting. The desire for justice is also an inherent aspect of life.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:02:15 2021 No.17338675 >>17338646 >I tried linking some starter stuff in /pol/ and I guess I got saged by some seething fascists lol Yeah, everything that happens to you is because of fascists lmao

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:02:23 2021 No.17338676 File: 6 KB, 480x360, go_to_gulag.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17338455 No. You go to gulag. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dKcsi3ePvc

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:03:17 2021 No.17338685 File: 61 KB, 1045x1045, rawls.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17338455 GLORY TO RAWLSPOSTING I <3 Locke. He's my best bud.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:05:29 2021 No.17338703 >>17338675 /pol/ is populated by either fascists or people to scared to be. This shouldn't really be controversial to say, I was once one too. They might call themselves natsocs, alt-right, nationalists, etc. but they're all pathologically the same.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:05:30 2021 No.17338702

>>17338674
>One thing I wish liberals would actually read is J.S. Mill's On Liberty. The chapter on liberty of thought and discussion is one of the greatest monuments of European civilisation.
Agreed, I reread it this week and I wish I could force everyone in the west to read it. The bit where he discusses how valid ideas cease to be truly understood as soon as they no longer need to be defended is a great insight.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:06:10 2021 No.17338710 >>17338675 Must be nice to be so secure in your ideology that it's enemies are simply ill.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:06:47 2021 No.17338715 >>17338675 It wouldn't surprise me if it was true desu /pol/tards are our local SJWs, you can't escape this archetype no matter what, fuckers are everywhere

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:07:27 2021 No.17338718

I also forgot to mention this guy. Anglo-Americans may seethe, but I really like him regardless of being maybe proto-socialist. I can't disagree with his Discourse on Inequality, and even if we shouldn't abolish property we can at least work to counter its injustices.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:07:28 2021 No.17338719 >>17338588 >My socialist tendencies tell me the top 1%, even the top 10% have no right to live like that while others suffer. I wouldn't say they have no right but that we, as a society, ought to help people when they fall on hard times.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:08:02 2021 No.17338725 >>17338529 dawg that’s just common social democracy

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:08:30 2021 No.17338731 >>17338718 >this guy Rousseau?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:08:42 2021 No.17338732 File: 770 KB, 1200x1671, 1200px-Jean-Jacques_Rousseau_(painted_portrait).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17338718 pic related

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:10:57 2021 No.17338747 I'm not surprised how few people discuss liberalism on here given how extreme politics has become and the general discourse on this site.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:11:26 2021 No.17338751

>>17338455
im a marxist-leninist and in an ethics course at my university we had to study Rawls a bit and I could not for the life of my see the difference between Rawls’ theories and typical marxism-leninism. He reaches the same conclusions, but covers over liberalism’s obvious inability to reach that ‘ideal’ without his veil of ignorance.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:12:39 2021 No.17338760 >>17338751 >I could not for the life of my see the difference between Rawls’ theories and typical marxism-leninism Could you elaborate on this?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:13:29 2021 No.17338767 File: 147 KB, 1081x1394, IMG_20200317_021454.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17338640 Your friend reminds me of this guy

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:14:28 2021 No.17338776

>>17338751
Things like
> Social and economic inequalities are to be arranged so that they are both: to the greatest benefit of the least advantaged, consistent with the just savings principle, and attached to offices and positions open to all under conditions of fair equality of opportunity."
Don't really jive with Marxism-Leninism imo. Neither does democratic centralism.
Rawls wrote on MLs in Political Liberalism; he concluded that it wasn't adequate and that a liberal socialism including property would be acceptable.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:19:15 2021 No.17338830

>>17338529
I agree with this, I'm a social democrat. Personally, I also like folks like Yang, simply because they're 21st century, technology centered. I believe that humanity needs to adapt itself to technology or it's going to get screwed this century. Also, I believe moderate nationalism and liberal religion are good if used moderately. I support small nation-states like my home, Quebec, as well as Catalonia and Flanders, which is probably the likeliest new country along with bougainville. In terms of liberal institutions, I really am capitalist, and I think the financial system ought to be preserved, but more transparent. I'm a soft eurosceptic, but I believe things like the shengen area are good if Romania and Bulgaria stay out of it, for their own good and to prevent more problems for western european labour

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:20:37 2021 No.17338844 >>17338830 >I also like folks like Yang, simply because they're 21st century, technology centered. If you support UBI you are 100% retarded.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:21:12 2021 No.17338849 >>17338844 Cope

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:21:25 2021 No.17338853

>>17338776
>he concluded that it wasn't adequate and that a liberal socialism including property would be acceptable.
So basically every real socialist state to ever exist.
>>17338760
His idea of allowing a meritocracy and a level of inequality as long as it doesn’t lower the lowest standard of living is very much in line with marxist-leninist thinking, particularly Kruschev and after but the ideas are present in Stalin’s writings.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:21:56 2021 No.17338856

The tax upon land values is the most just and equal of all taxes. It falls only upon those who receive from society a peculiar and valuable benefit, and upon them in proportion to the benefit they receive.It is the taking by the community for the use of the community of that value which is the creation of the community.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:22:09 2021 No.17338859 >>17338703 what's wrong with fascism?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:24:02 2021 No.17338873 >>17338725 I know. I literally said I am a liberal demsoc.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:24:11 2021 No.17338875

>>17338844
This, liberalism is only compatible with freeholding independent men and households. UBI has nothing to do with liberalism, it is nanny state technocracy shit that will turn everybody into a permanent dependent. How the fuck could you possibly think that the founding liberal thinkers or the founding fathers wanted the people to be reliant on the state for sustenance? They were all about independence, and a vigorous citizenry jealous of its independence.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:25:34 2021 No.17338886 >>17338873 No, but you are a social democrat not a liberal democratic socialist. I swear to god Americans love inventing more complicated labels for themselves just because they’re too lazy to understand anything.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:25:37 2021 No.17338889 >>17338875 Fuck off wagie, UBI is based

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:25:55 2021 No.17338893 File: 51 KB, 600x656, 1609260857998.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17338849 >yeah bro, just accept 90% income tax and depend on the government for most of your income, that'll work out great

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:26:27 2021 No.17338899 >>17338889 UBI seems like you're handing your entire livelihood to the state. They can revoke your bread-line for essentially any reason they feel like...why is that a good thing? O.o

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:27:23 2021 No.17338905 >>17338455 Hylics are everywhere fren, post at your pleasure

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:27:24 2021 No.17338908 >>17338455 We can thank liberalism for bringing the world to ruins. Subtly but highly dangerous and insular, on the surface it looks benign, good even, but then look what happens when it's applied.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:27:55 2021 No.17338910

>>17338875
The only people who unironically support UBI are poor people and well-intentioned idiots who don't think about how it's to be implemented.

Contemporary UBI is broken down into two camps

1. "Just trust me bro, it'll be great"

2. People pushing for partial UBI which is just a fucking trojan horse for full UBI.

>>17338899
And populists will UBI increases to get more votes (and bankrupt the state in the process)

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:28:04 2021 No.17338911 >>17338893 damn i had forgotten about that image.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:28:40 2021 No.17338919 >>17338908 we're literally the best we've ever been, stop LARPing

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:29:30 2021 No.17338930 >>17338908 Literally the worst thing that liberalism can do is decrease the global standard of living to pre-liberal averages. That is hardly ruining anything, the environment aside.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:29:34 2021 No.17338931 >>17338910 >will UBI increases will use* >>17338908 >look what happens when it's applied. People have never been wealthier and the world has never been safer. Every country that liberalises ends up doing much better.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:30:14 2021 No.17338939 >>17338710 radical political ideologies tend to attract the mentally ill or infirm. If not then they are either disaffected or le ressentiment

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:30:40 2021 No.17338948 >>17338889 >Fuck off wagie, UBI is based Wagies are the ones calling for UBI. Who the fuck would want UBI if they're on good wages?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:31:01 2021 No.17338951 >>17338919 >>17338930 >>17338931 Anglo scum. Material wealth is not everything in the world. We are in a cultural and spiritual ruin thanks to your ideology.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:31:08 2021 No.17338953

>>17338931
>Every country that liberalises ends up doing much better.
Only if the country is liberalizing from a rural (feudal) society into an advanced industrial, or post-industrial later, economy. Socialist countries that liberalized have been completely fucked over, ridiculous life expectancy drops.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:32:15 2021 No.17338961 >>17338953 name one.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:32:22 2021 No.17338963 >>17338953 >Socialist countries that liberalized have been completely fucked over, ridiculous life expectancy drops. List some of these socialist countries, please.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:33:08 2021 No.17338972 >>17338529 Go back.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:33:24 2021 No.17338975 >>17338951 >We are in a cultural and spiritual ruin thanks to your ideology. People have been saying that since the dawn of time. The only difference today is that the media lets us truly appreciate how many tards are out there.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:33:45 2021 No.17338977 >>17338951 Trannies are not the end of the world. Women not wanting to fuck you is not the end of the world. Black people being able to sit next to you is not the end of the world. Have sex.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:37:28 2021 No.17339000

>>17338975
>People have been saying that since the dawn of time.
This is a fallacious line of thinking, and even if it's true, then it means we might have been declining "since the dawn of time". But there are objective indications of our cultural decline: no great art is created anymore, god is not worshiped, spirituality is seen as silly rather than divine, man and woman live in disharmony. We have evidence that not always this has been the case.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:40:30 2021 No.17339017

>>17338893
UBI could be funded through other means. Like location taxation. If there is a natural lake and people build their houses around that like, other people are deprived from the opportunity of building around that lake. It's not because the people closest are evil or because the people farthest are lazy, it's just that we can't have two separate houses on the exact same spot. A tax on proximity to the lake to redistritbute that value by the people would serve as compensation for the lost opportunity. It's not like income, in that nobody made the lake; the lake would be there regardless of any worker, capitalist or even government.

This is just to illustrate a point, I'm not arguing for actual taxes on proximity to lakes, just that there are better, more palatable tax bases out there than any type of income tax.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:40:48 2021 No.17339020 >>17338977 Crass, degenerate, and short-sighted. You are yourself a product of the ruins but you cannot see it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:41:06 2021 No.17339027 >>17339000 >muh Christian trad-life I hope you're LARPing.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:41:35 2021 No.17339034 >>17339000 >>17338975 Interestingly, this line of thinking can be credited to the Greeks. With each progressing age (golden, silver, etc.) the Greeks saw man as in decline, and with future ages, it would be even worse

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:42:20 2021 No.17339039

>>17339000
>no great art is created anymore
no art that I like is created anymore*
>god is not worshiped
false and would be an extremely good thing if true
>spirituality is seen as silly rather than divine
because it is. I'm sorry
>man and woman live in disharmony
translates to "I can't get laid"

stop LARPing man, you're bringing unnecessary pain and stress to your life

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:42:59 2021 No.17339044 >>17339027 I am not Christian. Even if I were, my points would still stand. You have said nothing of value.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:43:56 2021 No.17339051 why can't we have things the way are but remove trannies? they're ugly and not women. we would all be very happy, no?

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:44:25 2021 No.17339058

>>17339017
>This is just to illustrate a point
I didn't see it whatsoever. Could you elaborate further, please?

Let's do some rough projections.

250,000,000 adults
Using full UBI, which is the endgame, let's assume $25,000 a year (I've no idea if you could live on that).

That works out to $3.75 trillion per year. Where is that money coming from?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:45:02 2021 No.17339063 >>17339000 No going back once you find out Santa isn't real, sorry bro. The path we're headed to is inevitable and that's because God was always a lie.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:45:26 2021 No.17339066 >>17339044 >You have said nothing of value. Because your whole post is basically "I want to go back to the 18th century". I had written out a much longer post like >>17339039 but by the end I realised how ridiculous your whole post was and deleted it.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:45:44 2021 No.17339068 >>17338597 >he thinks I'm joking you must have a bad case of the Shanghai Shivers

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:46:05 2021 No.17339071 >>17339051 Trannies won't be an issue anymore when we achieve full transhumanism

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:46:29 2021 No.17339073 >>17339039 This is the insular nature of liberalism I talked about. It creates a giant web of air-tight circular reasoning and deflects the criticisms by looping and looping ad infinitum. Subtle but dangerous as I said.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:46:46 2021 No.17339077 >>17339071 but they'll never be women; why not just ban defective men from pretending to be women? that's not hard.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:47:31 2021 No.17339083 >>17339077 There won't be any men or women in the future

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:47:32 2021 No.17339084 >>17339073 >It creates a giant web of air-tight circular reasoning Provide your objective basis for art, god, and spirituality. You're basically a larping A E S T H E T I C faggot

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:48:27 2021 No.17339092 File: 295 KB, 685x883, 5A74134B-962A-414E-BB0D-CCC35784DD13.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17338961 >>17338963 all of them

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:49:07 2021 No.17339097 >>17339073 >It creates a giant web of air-tight circular reasoning and deflects the criticisms by looping and looping ad infinitum. Nice projection, this is literally what christcucks do. Just accept you have no actual arguments

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:49:15 2021 No.17339098 >>17339083 boys have XY chromosome girls have XX chromosome

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:49:22 2021 No.17339099 >>17339066 >"I want to go back to the 18th century" Yes, the 18th century was a great time in human history. If you did not know, Goethe and Beethoven for example were public figures instead of the clowns we have now.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:49:49 2021 No.17339102 >>17339092 Erm... Anon... Life expectancy increased massively and the disparity decreased after liberalising. (Those are good things) Anon... please tell me you can read graphs.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:50:45 2021 No.17339112 >>17338747 liberalism is a joke, that may explain why no one cares

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:51:38 2021 No.17339118
File: 262 KB, 1200x908, 1200px-Rotterdam,_Laurenskerk,_na_bombardement_van_mei_1940.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>17338859
Fascism is wrong because it is suicidal. That is the most succinct way I can put it.
It revels in the idea of 'heroic' death and promotes worldviews (historical idealism, social Darwinism) that are fundamentally harmful. They worship the past but don't understand it or the past's mistakes, and uses artificial constructs like nationalism to promote genocide. Its rejection of democracy results in totalitarianism, and the extraneous 'other' starts appearing everywhere, leading to fear and repression. It's economic system, while at first glance social democratic, is built on a system of looting and plundering others that inevitably collapses in the long term. Ordinary people may support fascism, but fascists themselves are generally cowards and bullies. Overall, it's a ramshackle mess of ideology that always collapses and destroys itself.

>>17338908
These are the ruins that fascism creates in just a few years. You know why Rotterdam is now a liberal-looking city with big glass skyscrapers? Because fascists destroyed it, just like everything they think they love. So much for tradition.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:52:05 2021 No.17339121

>>17339084
Am I expected to write philosophical treatises on a 4chan thread on the spot? Your ridiculous expectations do not discredit anything.
>>17339097
As I said, I am not Christian so I don't know why you bring them up so much. I see Christianity as a decadent tradition.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:53:08 2021 No.17339125 >>17339099 And the only reason you even know of Goethe and Beethoven is because you were born now.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:53:17 2021 No.17339126 >>17339118 fascists are niggers but youre being disingenuous about rotterdam

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:54:21 2021 No.17339136

>>17339121
>Your ridiculous expectations do not discredit anything.
You haven't proven anything beyond being a consoomer (my celebrities are better >>17339099) and complaining about people not being christ-trads. In an age of information, why would you expect people to believe in mainstream religions?

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:54:22 2021 No.17339137

>>17339102
Look at the graph from 1989-1995. Life expectancy plummets and life disparity soars. The only reason these things started to go up later was that they had access to greater trade, an issue that would not have existed during socialism were it not for western aggression.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:55:23 2021 No.17339145

>>17339126
>youre being disingenuous about rotterdam
What. Have you been there? It's all glass, as that anon said.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_bombing_of_Rotterdam
>Almost the entire historic city centre was destroyed, nearly 900 people were killed and 85,000 more were left homeless.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:56:03 2021 No.17339148 >>17339118 If they had not resisted the German army, their buildings would not have been destroyed. Your criticism means nothing.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:58:15 2021 No.17339162
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>>17339137
There is a minor drop for a minority of nations (most stay at the same level, only a few like Estonia and Russia see drops) and then a 10 year increase in life expectancy, and this is a bad thing to you?

The minor blip might be more due to people looting countries like Russia after the fall of communism than liberalism.

Jesus Christ anon you're properly retarded. You see a 10 year increase in life expectancy and focus on a minor oscillation that occurs after one of the biggest events in the 20th century.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:58:36 2021 No.17339165

>>17338455
I don't even know what I am. I am against Capitalism, against the anti-religion of Marxism, though, I don't think democracy is great, but I don't think fascism is a good system (taking darwinism to the extreme and ignoring morality). I think that laws should be morally strict and consistent.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 19:59:28 2021 No.17339171

>>17339125
To be more clear, even if you were born in a third world shithole today, you'll still have access to a lifetime of literature and music just thanks to the internet. A privilege no one in the past had until now. If you hate modern art, literature, whatever, you're in luck because you have so much classic literature and music to get through you'd realistically never have to care about anything going in the modern world. Which I assume you already do, considering your obvious disconnection from the modern world and your fetishization of the 18th century. I don't have a problem with it, but living in the past like this is simply unhealthy and will fuck you up in the long run. You're pretty much an 80 year old granny stuck in what I assume is a 20-30 year old body which is just sad.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:00:47 2021 No.17339180 >>17339171 Reverence of the past is hardly unusual, half the great authors in the modern period thought literature peaked with Homer and just declined ever since

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:01:34 2021 No.17339185

>>17339165
Sounds Aristotelian.
>>17339148
That's the most victim-blaming garbage I've ever seen.
>We had to destroy them because they wouldn't submit to being our boot
Why aren't you siding with the Dutch, who bravely resisted to protect their homeland? Fascists have no empathy and revel in the suffering of others.
>inb4 social darwinist justification

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:01:41 2021 No.17339186 >>17339171 I would rather be connected with the works of a generation that had more intellectual substance than the modern era's decadence.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:01:45 2021 No.17339188

>>17339125
Not true. As I said, they were cherished public figures.
>>17339136
If you cannot see the difference between Goethe being a celebrity and whatever negro rapper that is now in vogue being a celebrity and how it shows a cultural decline, then I'm afraid nothing could be proved to you. I cannot make a blind eye see.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:01:52 2021 No.17339189 File: 414 KB, 1080x1709, omni.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17338455 Yes. I'm an Omniliberal and my favorite omniliberal is Steven Bonnelli

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:01:57 2021 No.17339191 >>17338455 Rawls was too free thinking to disgrace his name with the stigma of "lib." At the very least he is nothing like modern liberals. The word once stood for something much more.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:03:11 2021 No.17339201 >>17339191 >At the very least he is nothing like modern liberals. The word once stood for something much more. Modern liberalism is not liberalism. Those people simply appropriated the term because of its (rightfully) positive connotation.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:04:19 2021 No.17339206 >>17339185 The Germans had a good and noble cause. Not siding with them was a clear mistake on the part of the Dutch.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:06:49 2021 No.17339222 >>17339191 What makes Rawls not liberal? >Social Contract Theory >Veil of ignorance; strong emphasis on consent of the governed >supports economic inequality, private property, mix of positive and negative liberties

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:08:13 2021 No.17339232 >>17339206 Are you old enough to post on this board? You sound like you’re 14.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:11:15 2021 No.17339251 >>17338529 Are you me?

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:11:33 2021 No.17339253

>>17339058
The point was that you don't need taxes that decourage work and investment. You can tax things that exist regardless of what owners do (unimproved land value), things you want people to make less of (pollution), and things you might want to decourage temporarily for the sake of renewal (fish, game, timber).

2000 a month? That seems way too much assuming current cost of living. UBI wouldn't keep people from working: if they wanted more than they needed for modest living away from the hotspots (where most of the work gets done) they'd pick up jobs just as today. But instead of losing their unemployment check they get to keep it so there is no dicentive to working or investing their savings. Some of the current government spending programs would be replaced with UBI and the minimum wage concept could be dropped in favor of minimum income which would keep the least skilled workers from being priced out of the market.

Land value is a very big tax base: https://www.bea.gov/research/papers/2015/new-estimates-value-land-united-states https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-02/america-s-urban-land-is-worth-a-staggering-amount That value would be more than enough to cover US federal government spending twice over. Though you could expect property prices to fall some, as speculators would be turned off; that would still make it cheaper to buy homes and buy plots to build on, though.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:11:57 2021 No.17339256

>>17339180
There's a huge difference between reverence and straight up LARPing to the point where you think the world is ending.
>>17339186
Good, then do it in silence and stop being annoying. You screeching at modern decadence is literally doing nothing to help it, and ironically it actually puts people off from the works you like. No one is going to listen to Beethoven if you're constantly telling them their music is shit and that they should listen to Beethoven. But of course you don't want people to listen to Beethoven, since it makes you feel special and superior to the "plebs" that enjoy modern music, meaning it's nothing more than a fashion statement for you and a replacement for a lack of personality. Personally I love classical music and try to get as much people I can into it, not by shitting on the music they like but by introducing it to them like you would when you know, actually want people to appreciate something like you like. This is why I think you're a pseud and actually WANT modern people to be decadent and plebeian, because it feeds your ego.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:13:34 2021 No.17339263 >>17339256 larping about the world ending is also extremely common historically

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:15:45 2021 No.17339280 >>17339263 I know, which is exactly why it's retarded. It's just an eternal loop of "no, THIS time its gonna happen I swear!"

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:19:10 2021 No.17339301 >>17339280 Once in a while it really does happen as in civilization really does sort of collapse in a region, though I don't think we're there yet.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:20:19 2021 No.17339307 File: 27 KB, 600x400, 1610914199823.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17338640 >very intelligent >>17338640 >He is a humanist but an atheist and essentially a moral nihilist

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:23:09 2021 No.17339328 >>17339206 >The Germans had a good and noble cause Lmao

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:25:12 2021 No.17339341 >>17339256 Your emotional reaction and resort to insults and personal attacks is evidence enough that there is uncomfortable truth in what we said. But know that projecting your deficiencies on strangers doesn't disprove their words.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:26:03 2021 No.17339347 >>17338856 /thread

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:26:49 2021 No.17339356 >>17338747 >duhhh buHh what if you could be born anywhere, we should reorganise our political system to tolerate everything because equality good because reasons Rawls is a joke.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:29:04 2021 No.17339367 >>17339356 Would you support creating a state in which: >One half enjoys special privileges >The other is disadvantaged If you didn’t know which half you belonged in?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:30:30 2021 No.17339378 >>17338972 Guy, I wish I had somewhere else to go back to. I've been stuck in this hell for more than a decade. It's a part of me now. Nothing else will do. Nowhere else to go.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:30:56 2021 No.17339381 >>17339367 Yes, if each half is assigned correctly according to their roles and responsibilities and what they deserve.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:31:30 2021 No.17339382

>>17338747
Liberalism doesn't work, that's the long and short of it. The only way the west could get it it to work for a short period of time was to lie to everyone and pretend they could have a strong social safety net and strong traditional values under a liberal democratic society. Neither happened because everyone is always at odds with each other and the only winners are the elite.

So politics is fracturing because everyone is seeing the lie for what it is (and because everyone is devolving into power politics instead of upholding basic values).

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:32:41 2021 No.17339389 >>17339118 This post is completely retarded and empty rhetoric except from the criticism of their economic system.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:33:25 2021 No.17339395

>>17339341
There was nothing emotional about my reaction and you were throwing personal attacks before lmao
There is no uncomfortable truth because I don't believe in God, simple as that. Your whole argument falls apart when you consider not all of us share your religion or a religion at all. You are the worst kind of LARPer, you contribute no art or anything of value out of your supposed suffering over modernity, you only offer 4chan rants like every other "retvrn to tradition" retard. You complain about artists and writers not doing what you like while you sit doing nothing. If you're the enlightened, spiritual God and art loving person you claim to be, why don't you make any art yourself? Why don't you write a book? All you're doing is posturing and being annoying, pushing more and more people away from what you love because guess what, we're all fucking tired of your EVROPA TRADITION posturing. You are no different than an SJW, most people come to 4chan to run away from people telling them what to do. If you really care about tradition, art, and spirituality I suggest you find another approach because this one isn't working.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:36:42 2021 No.17339413

>>17339367
I think its a stupid question to ask. What are the advantages and what are the privileges? This itself is a moral question and the rawlsian presupposes a state based on utilitarian redistribution of goods rather than a state focused on duty and virtue.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:38:54 2021 No.17339433

>>17339017
>t. someone who doesn't fucking own a home
If you tax real estate even more, you'll just make your rent more unaffordable you retard. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

The worst thing you can do is just print money. That's equivalent to a flat tax on ALL people since you're just devaluing the dollar.

>muh tax the rich
Why do you pretend that the bureaucratic class are somehow filled with noble souls who will do nothing corrupt with the money you give them? How can you look at ANYTHING political today and say, "yep, I want to give these assholes my money."

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:40:35 2021 No.17339446

>>17339413
I would think that even Aristotelians would admit managing the distribution of goods and services is one of the primary functions of the state. I would go so far as to say that’s *why* states exist, other than to provide a judicial services. Be it utilitarianism or virtue theory, you can examine these functions through whatever lenses

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:41:37 2021 No.17339455

>>17339395
Now you are making unreasonable and unfounded assumptions. How do you know I contribute nothing at all from my Anonymous posts? As it happens I am enrolled in a prestigious academic program and I expect do my fair share of contributions in the future. I do not spend all of my time on 4chan. I suggest you take a step back, cool down, then rationally think about my criticisms and your projections.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:41:43 2021 No.17339457 >>17339253 Based land-value-tax poster.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:41:58 2021 No.17339460

>>17339367
Is there a reason for this half and half though? If the latter half is disadvantage BECAUSE they refuse to get a job, for example, then I'm 100% for the inequality. If it's just arbitrary, then yeah, there should be some reorganization.

The problem with Rawls and everyone in that line is they don't make a distinction between inherent inequality and inequality of choices. If you make bad choices, you should suffer bad consequences. Simple as.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:41:58 2021 No.17339461 File: 18 KB, 250x323, 2DF47776-9A98-47C0-9EC6-9C1EEA71FBDE.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] fixes Rawls for you

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:45:17 2021 No.17339485 >>17339455 Cool, then our discussion is over. I'm glad you're at least doing something, my assumptions are not unreasonable at all btw, 99% of people like you I engage with are exactly the same.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:47:09 2021 No.17339499

>>17339253
What? Did you even read the articles you linked or are you just fucking terrible at math?

> Estimates suggest that this 1.89 billion acres of land are collectively worth approximately $23 trillion in 2009
That's their TOTAL value. In 2020 dollars, that's $27 trillion.

As of October 2020, our total national debt was $27 trillion.

https://www.thebalance.com/the-u-s-debt-and-how-it-got-so-big-3305778

That means if you sold 100% of our land to China right now, we'd only barely pay it off. You're an idiot.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:51:00 2021 No.17339528 >>17339485 Sounds like you need to spend less time on 4chan my friend. Cheers.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:51:42 2021 No.17339533 KEK triggered.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:54:06 2021 No.17339550 >>17339528 I spend a healthy amount, tradfags are just being really annoying recently. It would be cool to be able to discuss anything made past the 19th century without the thread quickly turning into a shitfest and a /pol/ infograph dump.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:54:51 2021 No.17339559
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>>17338455
I’m not a liberal, but the closest I’ve come was reading Ronald Dworkin.

After him, I really appreciate the work of Amartya Sen as well as Martha Nussbaum.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:57:01 2021 No.17339572 >>17339455 to be fair to him, he is describing a /pol/tard pretty well

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:57:07 2021 No.17339575 >>17339559 I’ve read a bit of Sen and liked it a lot. Nussbaum too but I feel like I need to read more feminist stuff first. What’s Dworkin about? Not familiar with him.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 20:57:18 2021 No.17339577 >>17339550 I think 19th century is cool. Early 20th century is also cool. But post-war there is a clear decline which I attribute to liberalism among other things.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 21:00:33 2021 No.17339607

>>17339499
Why did you latch on to debt rather than spending?

Debt obligations are included in yearly government spending which is much lower. Last fiscal year was under 7 trillion, and that includes deficit of course.

It's not like you have to pay all your debt at once and you'll still find people willing to lend to a stable state if you absolutely feel you have to because stable states don't have to get frail and die decades from now making government bonds much safer than lending to consumers and even corporations which tend to have shorter lives than states do.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 21:08:41 2021 No.17339666

>>17339607
We spend 4.829 trillion per year.
https://www.thebalance.com/current-u-s-federal-government-spending-3305763

You'd have to tax ALL land at 18% per year. Do you understand what that would do to land ownership in this country?

Consider a 500k house (median price in the US). At 18% land tax rate, you'd be paying 90,000 dollars PER YEAR to just own a home. Your idea is retarded and it's no wonder economists have written it off.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 21:40:32 2021 No.17339911

>>17339666
I guess we'll have to cut government spending. It is known that land value taxation reduces the market price of land. That's why the billionaires that own the government don't allow land value taxation, and instead they place the burden of taxation on the working class.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 21:59:48 2021 No.17340033 >>17339145 >Wikipedia

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 22:19:51 2021 No.17340166

>>17339666
>Do you understand what that would do to land ownership in this country?
There would be fewer people buying property to leave it idle as it appreciates in value without any input of their own. Without competing with these speculators the bids of would-be-owners and property developers would go further.

One reason it's so hard to become a landowner is that a lot of speculators buy up property and just sit on it because the ground keeps rising in value. This happens even if the building rots because the location is what is being speculated on. So profits from land speculation can go up even as the quantity and quality of homes on the market stays down.

Meanwhile, if location tax replaced income taxes, workers and investors would get to keep more of the labor and capital they put down. It would take less time to save up to buy a property or less time to pay up a mortgage, if you could keep more of your income.

>Consider a 500k house (median price in the US). At 18% land tax rate, you'd be paying 90,000 dollars PER YEAR to just own a home.
First, business insider says it was 220,000 in 2018.

Second, property price =/= land value. The studies aren't the sum of real property prices, which is a bit higher at 31 trillion.

The tax on location is only on the value of the ground beneath the buildings/improvements. The stuff that wasn't built.
Outside the exorbitant prices of NY and LA, land value isn't anything crazy, specially when you consider urbanites don't usually own whole acres to themselves (land value goes it's per plot of land, not per flat). Check the bloomberg article.

LVT is one of the ideas most popular across the political spectrum with economists.

Many places practice split-rate taxation. Pennsylvania cities taxing land at higher rates than buildings were found to have more construction on them than Pennsylvania cities that taxed both at the same rate (a normal property tax).

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 22:21:21 2021 No.17340174 >>17339378 haha. same.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 22:29:11 2021 No.17340232 >>17338972 Go back where faggot? Believe it or not, being a /pol/ack isn't a requirement to use this website.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 22:31:49 2021 No.17340256 >>17339433 Land tax. Tax rent out of existence

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 22:40:26 2021 No.17340351 >>17340166 >There would be fewer people buying property to leave it idle as it appreciates in value I've never met someone stupid enough to do this. You are leaving money on the table otherwise. A tax on income makes more sense.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 22:45:20 2021 No.17340380

>>17338640
> He thinks the deep state shit is conspiracy tier and the government is just corrupt, and that people like me are making mountains out of molehills when we claim that perennial swampiness is some kind of crisis of civilisation.
I don't think Biden will be a return to normalcy, but I agree with him on this. People acting like the end times are upon us are really overhyping things. When you look at the grand scheme of history, current American problems are almost petty. The population is still fed (too much in fact lmao), we still live in an increasingly more peaceful era, and most of our problems can be fixed through legislation (with the exception being stuff like environmental depletion and what not)

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 22:52:57 2021 No.17340434 >>17338675 /pol/ is pretty openly fascist, this isn't exactly a secret

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 22:54:47 2021 No.17340447

>>17339433
I own my home actually.

If I were to rent out a room in my house, LVT wouldn't make me raise rent because I'd already set my rent near the maximum I'd expect people to pay. While the room were idle too long, I'd keep lowering the rent until I got a taker.

Where did you get the impression wealth inequality is my big concern? Or that I'm a big believer in big government? I want the economy to be run better and I think land speculation and high income taxes prevent that.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 23:02:37 2021 No.17340506 >>17338908 >but then look what happens when it's applied. Peace, increasing life expectancy, and the most food security we've ever had in history?

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 23:04:53 2021 No.17340518

>>17340351
>I've never met someone stupid enough to do this.
It's one reason why shitty buildings can rake in so much money. Better, bigger buildings could be built there instead or near but slumlords have low incentives to sell then because they can always make more money by selling later.

Land in an attractive town or city appreciates in time even as your money depreciates. It's a store of value. Trouble is, using land as a store of value raises cost of housing for other people.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 23:06:35 2021 No.17340535 >>17338951 >Anglo scum Ah yes, I forgot Liberalism is "Anglo" How could we forget about the Anglo revolution of 1789 and Napoleon, the great Anglo general.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 23:07:36 2021 No.17340543 >>17338953 >Socialist countries that liberalized have been completely fucked over, ridiculous life expectancy drops. *East Slavs got fucked over Estonians, Poles, Czechs, etc. love the Europe Union.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 23:10:01 2021 No.17340557 File: 172 KB, 1031x1382, Alexis_de_tocqueville.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17338455 Not a liberal but I genuinely enjoy de Tocqueville. I don't think anyone has come close in his appraisal of America.

Anonymous Wed Jan 20 23:12:03 2021 No.17340571

>>17339575
He’s mostly worked in legal philosophy, his big claim is debunking the positivist theory of law, basically by demonstrating that it’s impossible to do away with moral grounding for legal decisions.

Prior to him the dominate legal philosophy was positivism, which treats law as totally separate from things like Justice or morality, but just in terms of commands and the institutions and procedures which formalize these commands.

In the end he argues that the success of legal proceedings depends on the closeness the results come to an extra-legal *political* standard of Justice, rather than fidelity to law as such.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 23:14:42 2021 No.17340584 >>17339051 Trannies are a non-issue that gets overhyped. They are like 0.1% of the population

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 23:16:28 2021 No.17340598 >>17339099 >Goethe and Beethoven for example were public figures They were figures for the elite, the peasants didn't attend concerts in lavish halls and they had no records or CDs to replay his music in their homes.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 23:22:12 2021 No.17340626 >>17339206 >The Germans had a good and noble cause. Explain why the German cause was good and noble to non-Germans

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 23:23:22 2021 No.17340633 >>17340598 Exactly. Only such an aristocratic society could give rise to great culture. Which is why in liberalism everything is reduced to pleb level.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 23:29:55 2021 No.17340672 >>17340633 >it's another pleb thinks he's an aristocrat because he consooms high art episode Yes I'm sure you would be one of the aristocrats back then anon

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 23:31:51 2021 No.17340681 I'm a Bonapartist. I like to imagine that I encompass both right and left (Although nowadays my left leaning values would be considered right wing)

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 23:32:29 2021 No.17340685 >>17340626 Go read about their economic plans. Start with Gottfried Feder and his Manifesto for Breaking the Interest Bondage. They did have some autistic race fetishism which seems odd but they had solid plans.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 23:38:22 2021 No.17340721 >>17340434 No shit retard, but his thread archived with no replies because it's the largest board on the day of Biden's inauguration.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 20 23:41:12 2021 No.17340736 >>17340672 I would probably have been an academic. Most of my lineage, as far as I know of, were mostly merchants and academics anyway. It doesn't discredit my observation though.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:01:00 2021 No.17340840 >>17338571 Twenty first century based frying pan

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:10:37 2021 No.17340896
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>>17339911
>It is known that land value taxation reduces the market price of land. That's why the billionaires that own the government don't allow land value taxation, and instead they place the burden of taxation on the working class.
I'm this poster >>17339666

I'm actually convinced by this. It does explain a lot about why CA taxes on land are so low compared to everything else. It really does favor the landed class more than anything.

It's crazy how we've ended up in a semi-feudal society with another landed gentry.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:11:00 2021 No.17340902 >>17340518 >Better, bigger buildings could be built there instead or near but slumlords have low incentives to sell then because they can always make more money They can't make capital improvements themselves?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:14:32 2021 No.17340924 >>17338715 I am a very polite /pol/ack, sir.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:26:18 2021 No.17340973 >>17340571 So is he a proponent of legal realism then? Justices de facto legislate using written law as pretext?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:31:56 2021 No.17341005 File: 337 KB, 496x719, 2D8792DF-9A50-42D0-B542-B4826B21B43B.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17340736 You are one of these people but right wing.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:33:17 2021 No.17341009 >>17338455 I'm a moderate small-d-democrat, but I'd like to see a return to localism and sortition and in that respect I am out of the mainstream.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:34:46 2021 No.17341017 >>17341005 >maybe re-educating the antisocial tendencies out of people in the gulag this is a sexual fantasy

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:36:27 2021 No.17341020 >>17338977 Disgusting faggot. Keep posting things like this so more people like me wake up to the fact that they are ontologically different from people like you.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:38:48 2021 No.17341029 >>17341017 yes and?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:38:59 2021 No.17341031 >>17341009 Let me guess... Midwest? Kansas, Iowa, or Nebraska?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:40:47 2021 No.17341042 >>17338977 >goes into non sequitur diatribe about sex You are like a living parody of the last man. It's incredible.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:40:53 2021 No.17341043 >>17341031 Actually in California, but spiritually I suppose I am of the midwest.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:42:10 2021 No.17341050 >>17341029 you can't trust women to be prison guards, they fuck the inmates. Actually you can't really trust men to guard female prisoners either probably

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:45:48 2021 No.17341070 >>17338640 Your friend sounds pretty based actually.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:49:39 2021 No.17341094 >>17338529 Why does it matter though? You don't get a say in any of those things you get to choose between two people and hope one of them means what they say.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:51:46 2021 No.17341105 >>17338640 Your friend sounds pretty silly ngl

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:54:21 2021 No.17341119 >>17338875 But thats the endgame of liberal democracy, as predicted by tocqueville, no?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:56:52 2021 No.17341135 >>17338455 That's what I'm into. I bought Bacon, Locke, Hobbes, Berkeley, Hume, Mill, Rawls to understand the debate. Maybe I need some aristotle, too, huh? I'm not from the Anglosphere, btw.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 00:57:29 2021 No.17341139 >>17341070 >>17341105 He just seems to be some rich midwit philosophy major on daddy's payroll. ro*rty? lmao

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 01:04:37 2021 No.17341170 >>17341139 As someone who has unfortunately found himself surrounded by coastal elites at college, yeah. It’s the optimism and faith in the system that does it—only the wealthy and the extraordinarily foolish still have that.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 01:09:40 2021 No.17341194 >>17341135 What's the non-Anglo liberal canon? Other than Rousseau.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 01:14:36 2021 No.17341230 >>17341194 That, I'd like to know as well, so that I can add it to my reading list.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 01:18:04 2021 No.17341248 >>17341170 I hate rorty so much. I wish he was still alive so that I could go to his university and punch him in the face. He was a particularly pathetic kind of "philosopher"

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 01:23:56 2021 No.17341273 >>17338666 Yes, suffering IS inherent to life. That's necessary suffering. But the suffering anon wrote of is unnecessary suffering. And the task of politics is to destroy unnecessary suffering.

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 01:25:01 2021 No.17341278

>>17338455
I'm not sure what ML is but I'm fairly liberal, and not "classical liberal" either, that's code for "I'm conservative but I believe in moderation please don't hate me". I don't identify myself as a liberal though because it doesn't really mean anything any more, what little it does mean is mostly detached from its roots. What I will identify as is a leftist, and not a communist but a social democrat. My main reason for that is I believe in helping the most people possible no matter where we need to pull the money and resources from.
>but the government doesn't help people
If you don't trust your government to provide you with, say, healthcare, then why trust them to defend you from invaders or rule on your innocence or guilt? Governments can help people they're just inefficient and sometimes incompetent, both of which can be fixed.
I don't really have any philosophers I can lean on for liberalism, for leftism I've seen some support but I can't think of it off the top of my head.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 01:26:48 2021 No.17341290 >>17338856 Tax on land values is evil because it undermines the very means by which a man can be independent of society at large, by charging him for the very right to exist as a free and independent landowner.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 05:44:55 2021 No.17342246 >>17341194 >>17341230 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Law_(Bastiat_book) I've only read The Law and while he's classed as a liberal, he comes off as more of a libertarian. He wan't government OUT of people's lives.

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 06:07:36 2021 No.17342327
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>>17338455
I'm a Catholic conservative, most definitely not a "liberal" but somehow more mainstream than most /lit/erati. The radicalism of this board is part of why it's interesting but also leads to /pol/ versus socialist competitive projectile vomiting sessions where they regurgitate NIGGERS BAD or PROPERTY BAD as critiques of authors, literature, or society. That said, I would rather /lit/ be like this than a social democrat + socialist circlejerk like everywhere else.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 07:54:02 2021 No.17342750 >>17340598 Except they did you worthless fucking tard Local elites built libraries and set up music showings for the working poor of their regions rather than spending on "charity" which expends 90% of its income on wages and 10% on awareness

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 07:58:25 2021 No.17342766

I used to be a liberal until I read Anthony Daniels
Liberalism and its consequences have been an absolute disaster for those at the lower levels of society while degrading even those at the top
Africans under the threat of real poverty and war with a life expectancy of 50 live with more dignity and self-respect than your average lumpen proletarian from a slum in the "first" world

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 08:07:25 2021 No.17342804 >>17338640 The man who wrote this is actually the friend, and you are the (projected) man who wrote this.

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 08:11:42 2021 No.17342828 I'm a Gladstone liberal if that helps.

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 08:27:56 2021 No.17342913
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>>17342766
>Africans under the threat of real poverty and war with a life expectancy of 50 live with more dignity and self-respect than your average lumpen proletarian from a slum in the "first" world
Well, are you posting this from a Tutsi militia artillery computer? Why don't you switch to the African lifestyle?

>>	Anonymous Thu Jan 21 08:29:45 2021 No.17342928 >>17342913 lel

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 08:38:12 2021 No.17342973

>>17342913
Because we can actually achieve a much more dignified life much more easily here where we actually have material prosperity (self respect getting displaced by self esteem in the west is a purely intellectual phenomenon that can't be attributed to arcane sociological forces no matter how hard you try) but hinder our poorest and weakest by sabotaging them with progressive education, Corbusierian insane asylums, non-judgemental welfare and voluntary prison sentences (the latter is not quite policy yet though the guttering of yuro police forces has certainly helped)
Just look at blacks in America and Sikhs in Britain.
The former got utterly annihilated by liberalism while the latter are the second richest group in Britain (behind guess who) by dodging the UK's best efforts to "help" them

Anonymous Thu Jan 21 08:39:25 2021 No.17342981

>>17340902
They can, but the incentives to do so are reduced when property value goes up regardless due to location. Landlords who'd actually improve and maintain their properties are bidding against slumlords and passive speculators.

A simplified scenario: suppose the replacement value for each building is equal to the respective location value; it follows that if two investors with equal budgets were looking to buy properties with degraded buildings in an up-and-comming part of town, the one that didn't bother to replace the degraded buildings with non-degraded buildings would get to buy twice as many properties as the investor who was planning to make improvements/repairs. The passive speculator saves more money on each property by not making those improvements/repairs which means he has more money on the short-run to buy more properties. The location goes up in value in the long-run even without further capital input, while the buildings have upkeep, so the passive speculator can sometimes make more money than the active developer, even though he is keeping the active developer from putting better options on the market for everyone else.

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/lit/ - Literature