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17321644 No.17321644 [Reply] [Original]

Ive been reading this book by a self proclaimed anti capitalist and let me tell you its so refreshing.
You may not like communism but the analysis anti capitalists make are spot on.
Its the real red pill.
Marxism is the weapon of the working class, without it the working class is powerless.

>> No.17321652

kys

>> No.17321656

>>17321644
is it actually any good? I heard Graeber is a pseud

>> No.17321661

>you may not like communism BUT COMMUNISM IS THE ANSWER

Mm'kay.

>> No.17321665
File: 26 KB, 480x480, socialism work.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17321665

>> No.17321681

>>17321665
china, vietnam, european countries...

>> No.17321986

>>17321661
>thinking there are no systems besides capitalism and communism

>> No.17322014

His data makes a stronger case for traditionalism than it does for any form of socialism

>> No.17322027

Pretty sure weapons are the weapons of the working class

>> No.17322079

>>17321665
Shouldn't it rather be communsim? There are so many places where socialism has been proven to work. Norway for example which is at the top of the human development index is a pretty socialist country as well as the other nordic countries.

>> No.17322089

>>17321681
China is a hypercapitalist, fascist state. Vietnam is attempting to be something similar. There are no socialist states in Europe.

>> No.17322095

>>17322079
>norway
>socialist
AHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAH good one anon

>> No.17322099

>>17322089
It isn't fascist by any stretch of the imagination

>> No.17322102

>>17322079
>is a pretty socialist country
You have to be a mutt posting something this uninformed.

>> No.17322129
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17322129

>>17322089
>>17322095

>> No.17322149

>>17322099
> Economy based on free markets, but directed from the top by the state and large corporations
> Strict authoritarian party dictatorship with leader worship

> ultranationalist education, culture, interior policy, including genocide of minorities
> ideology of a centralized, unitary ethnostate
> The army has influence in economics, culture, education

Yeah, not fascist at all.

>> No.17322162

>>17322129
Last two slides are strawman arguments. The Scandinavian countries are capitalist, anti-socialist states.

>> No.17322174

>>17322089
Cope

>> No.17322179

>>17321681
>european countries
less neoliberal doesen't mean socialist. Do burguerpunks really...?

>> No.17322181

>surrender all property and profit to the state
>pass this off as the working class working for themselves

is communism the biggest grift ever?

>> No.17322195

>>17322149
fascism when government and people like government nothing to do with mind as pure act or Hegelianism or anything

>> No.17322257

Social Democratic Prime Minister of Denmark Mette Frederiksen 21/4-2020 in Parliament at 14.07.35:

>I would like to be asked not to be considered a socialist. The Social Democrats have renounced this unbelievably many years ago, and I really want to believe that the same applies to Mr Morten Østergaard. I'm a little more unsure of how the word sounds over here. (Gestures to the Red-Greens). At least I'm not, I'm a Social Democrat, and that's something very, very different. Yes, fortunately for the country. (General cheerfulness).

Source: https://mobiltv.ft.dk/embed/20191/Salen/94?autostart=1

>> No.17322272

>>17321644
I read "The Utopia of Rules" by him and while it certainly raised some interesting points I couldn't get over the fact that in numerous examples he brought up he was factually wrong about it. He spent half a chapter going on about how politics in the Galactic Federation and analysis of where they failed as a state was never seen in Star Trek. but it was discussed in the show, all the time.

>> No.17322278

>>17322014
But his traditionalism is a system of mutual obligation, which is what communism is supposed to be.

>> No.17322290

>>17322149
Yup. Gyna was commie when nofood

>> No.17322299

>>17322278
>which is what communism is supposed to be
No, communism is supposed to be about voluntary contribution and free use.

>> No.17322349

>>17321644
Graeber wasn't a Marxist, he was a 90 year old anarchokiddie responsible for the occupy wall street mess

>> No.17322619

>>17322129
kek

>> No.17322623

>>17322181
why do people describe capitalism when they're complaining about communism

>> No.17322656

>>17321644
that book aint shit compared to Fedder. Get gud OP

Gottfried Feder -- Manifesto for the Abolition of Enslavement to Interest on Money (1919) - Full Audio Book
https://ugetube.com/watch/gottfried-feder-manifesto-for-the-abolition-of-enslavement-to-interest-on-money-1919-full-audio-book_hQ9DcxljAkwctY8.html

>> No.17322706
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17322706

>>17321681
>another amerimutt calling European countries as a successful socialist country
I SWEAR TO FUCKING GOD WHY DO YOU AMERICANS INSIST ON DOING THIS DHIT

>> No.17322732

>>17322623
>country does communism, is a terrible failure and everyone is starving and oppressed
>nah that's not real communism
>THIS is real communism
>another country that ends up a terrible failure and everyone is starving and oppressed

lol

>> No.17322742

I’ve been reading this book and it’s really interesting. I loved his book on bullshit jobs.

>> No.17322792

>>17322706
well lets look at germany for example.
Over there they have a representative of the workers on every corporation in the board of directors by law.
Does that mean that the workers own the companies in full?
No.
But it means they partly own it.
Also can you start a business?
In theory but most dont do it without seeking governments grants and aproval.
You know the devil is in the details.

>> No.17322812
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17322812

Marx? No, thanks.

>> No.17322820

Marx is a fucking loser

>> No.17322848

>>17322792
>Over there they have a representative of the workers on every corporation in the board of directors by law.
>No.But it means they partly own it.
They’re only the REPRESENTATIVE OF EMPLOYEES and this doesn’t mean employees own part of the business you retard. This only means that employees representatives give his opinions on in the interest of employees in the business

>> No.17323153

>>17322272
I'm not surprised.

>> No.17323209

Various European authors spoke in regard to socialism well before someone like Marx.

>> No.17323228

>>17321644
1. False dichotomy, we have a mixed economy
2. How do you propose we get savings to places that need capital

>> No.17323254

>>17323228
What i think is the problem is that corporations have power over the state, i believe the state should have power over corporations.
Also related to the book countries should not get in debt with other countries i guess.

>> No.17324554

>>17321644

There are some good Marxist critiques of our society (The Power Elite) but no good Marxist solutions to anything they're bitching about. This is because they identify the problem as "capitalists" when the problem is actually "sociopaths." Sociopaths rise to the top of any system and for whatever weird reason Marxists/Communists/Socialists/whatever are totally blind to this. Everything they propose just ends up making things worse because they think they can autistically change the rules of society and sociopaths will just start following them. No, Marxist sweetie, that's what makes them sociopaths, they exploit your new rules just like they exploit the current ones. That's what sociopaths do. The same people that are capitalists now just become kommisars or whatever under your new system. And under any leftist proposal the new rules centralize economic and political power and make it so that one group of sociopaths takes absolute control instead of there being a perpetual competition between sociopaths. Which is why none of you can ever get a communist society to end up as anything other than an authoritarian dictatorship. In short the working class is powerless and always will be because they aren't the kind of people who want power in the first place.

>> No.17324579

>>17321652
Go eat your shoe polish elsewhere.

>>17321656
>a pseud
No. Not at all.

>> No.17324749

>>17324554
the competent sociopath is just an urban myth.
I can tell youre a woman by the way you write btw.

>> No.17324905

>>17322129
The title of this meme cracked me up harder than the content

>> No.17325177

>>17324749

Somebody has never actually been around rich people.

>> No.17325183

>>17325177
not a whole lot desu but i bet theyre like donald trump.

>> No.17325196

>>17324554
>when the problem is actually "sociopaths."
Think you made a typo. Pretty sure you meant to type (((sociopaths)))

>> No.17325206

>>17321656
Seems to be: https://www.reddit.com/r/badeconomics/comments/e07wnx/graebers_against_economics/

Whenever you hear some economics guy being shilled, search for his name on /r/badeconomics.
Yeah, I know it's Reddit, but those are academic-oriented subs.

>> No.17325257

>>17325183

Maybe this is the core socialist problem then: you've never been around "capitalists," so you have a cartoon monopoly man image of them. Go read this in full because it is highly accurate:

https://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-or-the-office-according-to-the-office/

Rich people are fucking cutthroat. That's how most of them get there. They're not super intellectual but they're cunning. And they don't have any moral qualms about doing evil shit for power or screwing people over. These people will stomp all over your Marxist revolution and kick you to the curb while claiming they were the real Marxists all along. They always do, every time. "Competent sociopaths" aren't a myth and if you don't get that it's because you're on the lower rungs of the ladder and never get to actually see it.

>> No.17325298

>>17325257
A psychopath by definition is someone who lacks a part of their brain responsible for planning and impulse control. Does that sound like a businessman to you?
Dont get me wrong im sure theyre cutthroat but whatever you dont have to worry about me making a revolution.
Why would people follow me anyways?
Im not a doctor or a lawyer or a successful businessman or even a community organizer.
Its just frustrating to see that people keep blaming the wrong things.

>> No.17325319

>critique of capitalism #920682
Wow so insightful, send me another. Just melt my fucking brain.

>> No.17325355

>>17321644
As the saying goes:
"If you want to make money, read Marx."

>> No.17325391

>>17322195
Another anon here, tell me about those things.

>> No.17325522

>>17325355
im not sure if youre being sarcastic but sure why not.
I bet that reading marx would be more productive for entrepeneurs than david ramses ironically.

>> No.17325846

>>17322129
>let's adapt those policies
I'd rather not have 60%+ tax, because unlike the Nordic countries I don't live on a goldmine.

>> No.17325975

>>17325206
Academics are the worst economists.

>> No.17326065
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17326065

>>17321661
>being critical of capitalism is COMMUNISM

>> No.17326070

>>17322162
>anti-socialist states.
>states that utilize many socialist inspired polices
They're obviously capitalistic at their foundation, but this is just fucking retarded, anon.

>> No.17326076

>>17322623
Yeah, it'd be pretty funny if the retardation wasn't so wide-spread.
The dumbest shit really is when they cry about state capitalism like under the USSR being proof about anything except how shitty capitalism is when managed by the an overly nationalist and isolationist state.

>> No.17326099

>>17321986
Name one

>> No.17326123

>>17325206
>https://www.reddit.com/r/badeconomics

What the fuck is the point of a sub like this? It's not like economics is an actually well defined subject such that there are universally-by-people in-the-know agreed upon 'bad' forms of reasoning that aren't motivated by political ideals of contingent on specific social behavior.