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/lit/ - Literature

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1730204 No.1730204 [Reply] [Original]

Suicide is the only act of defiance left

>> No.1730210

then do it faggot.

>> No.1730212

OP's pic reminds me of Lord of the Flies.


What is the purpose of that pic anyways? It interests me.

>> No.1730217
File: 63 KB, 448x473, 1293429912818.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1730217

>>1730212
I hope you don't talk the way you type

>> No.1730214

>>1730210
Yeah that's what i'm
>implying

>> No.1730225

>>1730212
From wonder showzen. Its a show that aired on MTV2 a while back. The show was really good, and definitely worth a look. in that clip, the kid proceeds to give the pig head a makeover, drinks blood and punches a side of beef

>> No.1730223

>>1730212
It's from the show "Wondershowzen"

>> No.1730228

testing

>> No.1730231

>>1730217
I don't know what you mean.

Could you explain, please?

>> No.1730233

Should I care if it hurts my family if I kill myself? Generally what is /lit/'s ethical position on suicide?

>> No.1730238

it is also an act of absolute cowardice

>> No.1730244

Saging this before it turns into a shitstorm

>> No.1730247

well then I bump

>> No.1730249

>>1730244
then I bump

>> No.1730252

>>1730233

> the character's eventual suicide represents the blah blah blah in somebody else

yep.

>> No.1730255
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1730255

>>1730238
Wouldn't allowing yourself to die at all be just as cowardly then? How is dying cowardly, if there is no choice but to die? I think it is more cowardly to wait for external forces to do it for you.

>> No.1730261

>>1730255
the point is you choose to live or die at that point, it's cowardice because most do it to end pain that they themselves create and cannot handle, it's easy to die, it's hard to live

>> No.1730265

don't. we need you. you're one of the few.

>> No.1730267

What are you defying against, OP? Your parents because they wouldn't let you buy a Slipknot album?

>> No.1730281

>>1730265
he has a point

after all how could we tell all the good tripfags from the bad without the middle-ground of the mediocore

>> No.1730283

>>1730267
Defiance..is everything i project onto disgust.
>>1730265
Thanks, but I think I might really because I don't want to go back to prison.

>> No.1730284

Defiance against what? Empire? The universe?

>> No.1730290

What about illegal sex?

>> No.1730287

I just refuse to go back to prison...but yeah..i think it's interesting to see what people think of this

>> No.1730299
File: 55 KB, 1350x561, anti-suicide.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1730299

just go on the lam. get off the grid for a while. hitchhike, live under an assumed name. get a new identity. consider it an adventure. but you may wanna keep a revolver with one shot just in

>> No.1730334

who precisely are the defied parties in this proposition

>> No.1730961

>>1730299
This is interesting, because suicide is now the back up plan for my international adventure/fugitive status huzzah..too bad I can't go on 4chan as much probably..but then again, 4chan is gonna go 404 soon right?

>> No.1730966
File: 537 KB, 800x533, abolish adventure.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1730966

>> No.1730967

>>1730204
Nah, suicide is for faggots. read what Schopenhauer wrote about it.

>lol showzen, fucking love that ginger kid.

>> No.1730971

>>1730299
This pic fucking rules. Nothing to add.

>> No.1730973

>>1730967
From what I understand it is unclear what Schopenhauer intended to mean about suicide..I think he defended it up unto the point where he realized he was too big of a pussy to do it and then condemned it..are you familiar with the suicide club that was inspired by Schopenhauer..it was when he was still alive I think or soon after..anyway..I don't think suicide is an act of cowardice..and this seems to be the only argument against it.

>> No.1730982

>>1730973
Suicide is not an act of cowardice, it's just an error, some kind a stupid thing to do if you're not in a VERY fucked up situation.
(I tried and failed to anhero when I was 16, almost killed all my family lol ended up in a psychiatric hospital)

>> No.1730984

Suicide is an act of defiance? Against whom? Ultimately only yourself, I think.

>> No.1730987

>>1730982
Yeah, it might be an error. That is a kind of decent argument, but one could never know unless you survived or there is an afterlife like "no exit"..

Suicide is an act of defiance insofar as it is a Rejection of Everything possible..it defies every loophole, problematization of defiance..believe me..if you spend any time participating in activism, studying political realities--you realize how self-contradicting political actions really are..you also might realize that there is a sort of "butterfly effect" to living in the west whereby you eating a McChicken sandwich is the death/torture of a palestinian..then you might try deconstruction to see if there is not some oblique way of defiance but ultimately it is just as implicating as the rest...in the end the answer to the question, put forth in The Grapes of Wrath, "Who do we shoot?'' ..the starving workers wanted to shoot the boss, but if they did that they would just send someone from the bank and if they shot him they would send cops, and if they shot the cops, the military and so on...so the answer to "who do we shoot?'' (e.g. who can we shoot to end these problems) is ourselves..we can only shoot ourselves..

>> No.1730992

What about illegal sex? That's pretty defiant.

>> No.1730995

>>1730992
breaking the law only affirms the law..

>> No.1731000

Tell the hippies

they'll do themselves

the world will be ours

>> No.1731003
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1731003

>>1730204

>> No.1731004

>>1730995
Well what are you supposed to be "defying" then?

>> No.1731009

>>1731003
care to expand?
>>1731004
You defy the law, you defy everything by suicide. I kind of explained it in >>1730987

>> No.1731014

>>1730987
Suicide is an act of defiance insofar as it is a >Rejection of Everything possible..
>believe me..if you spend any time participating in activism, studying political realities--you realize how self-contradicting political actions really are..
You remind me of Artaud lol
this is a good thing

>> No.1731017

>>1731014
whoa... worst quoting ever.

>> No.1731018

>>1731014
Thanks he is kind of a hero of mine
"It is not opium which makes me work but its absence, and in order for me to feel its absence it must from time to time be present."
-Artaud

>> No.1731019

>>1731018
>thanks he is kind of an hero of mine
fix'd

>> No.1731030

>>1731019
what can we do?
Kill the president? Who gives a fuck...there will be another one. Kill policemen? policemen are like "stuff" the state puts there for us to throw rocks a at them and think we've done something useful. The problem with our society IS our society, we should kill everyone to end this system...we should kill ourselves!
What can we do to stop this? Stop buying things? Stop eating...?
Life IS the system, the control the state... there's nothing outside....just...void.
What should we fight exactly?
We cannot kill ourselves...this would just be pointless, stupid and would make it all a little bit more absurd...
We should start a revolution? A revolution against EVERYTHING? Against enlightenment? Against our thoughts? Should we just go crazy? But we would die this way... that would be just like a suicide....

>> No.1731034

>>1731009
>You defy the law, you defy everything by suicide.
>you defy everything by suicide.

No you don't. Nobody asked you to live, or put you under any obligation to do so.

>> No.1731038

>>1731030
Faced with the universal compulsion of economic need and political desire, remember it is like everything else a fight of flight scenario..now, what you've kind of reminded me of is that ultimately i would be succumbing to the pointlessness just as much by killing myself and therefore why NOT kill the president why not murder police by firebombing their homes? It is true, that with almost inescapable absurdity the only thing worth doing is embracing the absurdity--BUT suicide, in the sense of a political suicide can definitely be more than pointless on this level..take for instance that iconic image of the monk burning himself to death to protest religious oppression in his country...the act in effect killed two birds with one stone, because it ended his own oppression and it created problems for the people who were oppressing him..suicide is like a violent form of civil disobedience..it is Ghandi taken to the logical end.

>> No.1731040

>>1731018
btw have you seen Trier's "The idiots"?
I fucking recommend you to see it If you haven't.

>> No.1731042

>>1731034
Do you realize that suicide is illegal? That our entire political/economic dynamic depends on living breathing eating fucking shitpigs? sorry now i am getting emo.

>> No.1731045

>>1731040
Yeah! I want to see that so badly. I think I'll do that this weekend. Was it good? I think Von Trier is great, but he's inconsistent.

>> No.1731047

>>1731038
But...this is forgeting somehting important...
Why do we want a revolution? BECAUSE WE WANT TO LIVE.
We LOVE to life, this is why we hate THIS life.
First we need to live better, this is why we should change things...
but that extreme disobedience would be like that Marx brother's film where they use parts of the train to feed the caldera, and they end up burning the whole train... the whole train becomes its own combustible...

>> No.1731048

I'll put it this way too..they want to put me in prison..of course running is an option..if only you knew how difficult this one is...with interstate enforcement pacts, federal police, the prison of our identity, etc. it's very difficult to find a point of departure & it requires money, etc. Not to mention that accepting fugitive status is damning yourself to a life of intense marginalization..now, really...the state creating an object out of the man by saying he must be packed away in our humongous oubliette..demands your body and mind to be deterred..and if you kill yourself, they can't have you. They can never have you.

>> No.1731049

>>1731040
That movie is a badly filmed and full of bourgeois hypocrites. But hey the dogma was a total fucking joke so I guess that makes it okay right

>> No.1731053

>>1731048
but then you will lose yourself!
And this is the most important thing you won! Maybe the only thing you can own!

>> No.1731054

>>1731047
For some of us though, the revolutionary desire isn't about living better or living at all..it's about getting revenge..extreme defiance has no goal beyond extreme refusal..that is a great metaphor by the way (the marx brothers film) !

>> No.1731057

>>1731049
>That movie is a badly filmed and full of bourgeois hypocrites
I bet that's the whole fucking point, and why is one of my favourite movies. Trier rules at philosophy. He's not a simplistic director.

>> No.1731060

>>1731054
My ethics are based on hate. I live bevcause I hate. This is my whole point. But dying...that would be killing my enemy's enemy!!

>> No.1731061

>>1731057
>I bet that's the whole fucking point
>everyone congratulate me for being so good at making bad movies

>> No.1731064

>>1731048
no the escape of their law is what is the defiance that mocks them...if they had you they would take away your life so for you to cut out the middle man is like saying oh i lost on purpose and lookie i didnt need not one word that 6th grader cant prenounce to prove you wrong stop wasting your moms college money

>> No.1731065

>>1731053
I've thought of this..but i've come to the conclusion that, in the end I really don't own myself..my self is the collection of fragmentary roles, images, inter-subjectivities..myself is the self with a criminal record..my self is THE criminal record, the ID card, the debt..my self is another...my self is theirs..and they do what they can to remind me of this by locking me in cages, having me piss in cups and so on..to this extent suicide would be like stealing myself back, and making sure they could never recuperate what i've taken.

>> No.1731067

>>1731061
lol the "bad filming" is for a reason, is a way to express a point of view. It's like writing a poem with errors, because you want to express your disorders.
Srsly, the idiots is one of the best movies I've ever seen.
My ideas should be taken seriously since I'm a retard.

>> No.1731068

>>1731042
>Do you realize that suicide is illegal? That our entire political/economic dynamic depends on living breathing eating fucking shitpigs?

So, the point is to defy the legal system and society.
Illegal sex defies the legal system and pisses off society, you know.

>> No.1731070

>>1731057
>>1731061
Once again, extreme defiance doesn't look for legitimization D&E. Perhaps it does casually, but ultimately it is nothing but a thorn in the side..easy enough to remove, but the alternative is what? To make a "good" film..you enter into film criticism..and honestly Von Trier gets a lot of praise for that..so his films are good even though you think they arent'

>> No.1731073

>>1731068
Yes but you can be arrested for pedosex..suicide breaks the law but if you are successful, you can never be punished for it. that is really breaking the law. You literally break it by breaking it's ability to be enforced.

>> No.1731075

>>1731073
forget about suicide, seriously. I think you can do a lot of better things to continue your fight.

>> No.1731074

>>1731070
>To make a "good" film..you enter into film criticism..and honestly Von Trier gets a lot of praise for that
It's like we really think contemporary film criticism is not full of charlatans and clueless bluffers

>> No.1731078

>>1731074
lol

>> No.1731083

>>1731074
Yeah this is totally true, but I really don't know how else you can say a film is "good" or "bad''..i mean, you could criticize it yourself, but I don't think the Dogma's amateur style is really a reason for calling it bad..i can get into a poorly made movie if it tickles my fancy enough.
>>1731075
Yeah, I'm being extreme..i'm kind of being faced w/ prison and that kind of thing..so this is what the thread was about..but in the end I really did decide against killing myself for now..still I do consider it the only true act of defiance.

>> No.1731092

>>1731083
>I really don't know how else you can say a film is "good" or "bad''
the same way you would say a a diet of fresh vegetables and meat with the correct amount of vitamins and minerals is "good" while you would say that a diet of sweets and fast-food is "bad"

>I don't think the Dogma's amateur style is really a reason for calling it bad
since when was shitty filming a style.

>i can get into a poorly made movie if it tickles my fancy enough.
you can get into the subject matter of the movie in other words

>> No.1731106

>>1730334
your mom and dad and friends and the guy who's gonna have to cover your shift at work

fuck the police!

>> No.1731120

My conclusion:
DON'T do it. Prison is better than dying. You'll get out some day. Just wait for time to kill you.

>> No.1731124

>>1731092
All movies are sweets, don't you know? And yeah, I can get into the content, without a very expensive production..I know, Dogme 95 was a troll, but I come on 4chan so obviously i like a good troll..there *is* some real value to this..

>> No.1731125

yeah and while you're incarcerated you can work on your ability to properly appreciate film. (I recommend such modern-day classics as Shawshank Redemption, the Green mile, etc)

>> No.1731129

>>1731120
haha, we'll see I guess..I think waiting for time to kill you is the really act of cowardice..by the way..prison is hellish..it's like a lifetime of dread and misery compressed into a shorter period of time.

>> No.1731142

No, suicide is compliance. We dont need you. We dont want you. You are using our resources. And, making shitty posts on the internet. The universe doesnt fucking care about you. Survival is defiance.

>> No.1731149

>>1731142

"Survival is defiance."
I want this tattooed on me. I love it.

>> No.1731154
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1731154

>>1731142

>> No.1731157
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1731157

Death is the ultimate confession that life is too much for you.

Persisting to find happiness in a world without meaning is the ultimate rebellion.

>> No.1731168
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1731168

don't do it, your cat will resent you.

>> No.1731173

>>1731142
>suicide is compliance
why is it illegal? Persisting that the universe doesn't care assumes that it has the capacity to care and that metaphysical crap does not address the specific political dimensions of suicide. Survival is defiance? No, rather survival is persistence in error.
>>1731157
I can continue to find happiness, this is not a problem..but the experience of happiness is not related to reasons for suicide..not this sort of suicide anyway..I disagree with Camus completely.
>>1731168
She will just have to go to counseling

>> No.1731183

>>1731173

If it's not related to your happiness/freedom then why do you call it defiance?

>> No.1731187

>>1731183
happiness and freedom are not synonymous for me, in fact happiness can rob you of your freedom..so, it is about freedom but it is not about happiness..what i mean is that..even though i could definitely still find happiness in the life ahead, suicide would for me be an act of defiance, of escape to put it plainly. What am i escaping from? It's not simply a lack of happy experiences, but a pervasive EVIL that characterizes my life simply by living it..the constant threat of prison..being in complicity with something that is too horrific to even contemplate in full

>> No.1731189

this thread is real dumb

laters yall

>> No.1731196

Suicide bombers>regular bombers..
Totally more terrifying amirite?

>> No.1731209

kill yourself by holding your breath

that'll learn em

>> No.1731234
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1731234

>>1731187

I understand now that my definition of 'happiness' was not interpreted as the struggle to appreciate life and mortality but as the ephemeral, seductive ultimately encaging emotion.

My kind of happiness, 'real' happiness if you want, is more similar to freedom than the crass ecstasy of materialism.

Perceiving your problems as an 'evil', as if there is some inherent meaning or deliberation in your suffering is intellectually suicidal and as long as you continue to see it as such then absurdism can never help you.

As for your great 'evil', accept that enduring unhappiness is the necessary precursor to happiness.