/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17224619]

Is there really no way for democracy to work? Is it really just anarchy?

[Anonymous No.17224627]

>>17224619
Yes, philosopher king! Let's make Plato our king. Kneel to your king!

[Anonymous No.17224633]

>>17224627
King of the /lit/!

[Anonymous No.17224667]

>>17224619
Democracy doesn't work for the same reason any organization with no clear top-down order won't work. People have different interests, are hostile to each other and show no ability or desire to reconcile conflicting interests.

[Anonymous No.17224671]

>>17224667
How can one post be so wrong?

[Anonymous No.17224678]

>>17224619
In practice democracies compensate for their lawless tendencies by ever increasing state power and sphere of influence, and injecting ever higher proportion of moralism in their claims.

[Anonymous No.17224684]

>>17224619
I don't remember those exact quotes in the Republic.

The problem with democracy is the spirit behind it. For a democracy to work, it needs very moral people. But does it lead to a culture of morality or does it lead to a culture of hedonism and materialism.

[Anonymous No.17224690]

>>17224619
Democracy is the rule of money. It was meant only for small homogenous groups, not for nations

[Anonymous No.17224692]

>>17224619
wdym democracy doesn't work? there are democratic institutions in force all over the world?

[Anonymous No.17224701]

>>17224667
Do you feel like serving king Plato, first of his name, philosopher king, breaker of chains, reformed cave dweller, nemesis of Ionian musical scum, patron of Doric scales, master human breeder?

[Anonymous No.17224702]

>>17224619
It can work as long as there are strict guidelines and a military to back it, some guidelines being:

>if you are a citizen with rights, you have to vote at every election which affects you (local, state, and federal level)
>you have the freedom to withdraw your status as a citizen at any time and leave the system
>minorities will have a separate sphere reserved for them, with their own politics, which has slightly less rights but also has some of its own unique rights
>basic education of these guidelines is mandatory in all schooling

Basically, it can work only if the right people stay in charge and enforce the right rules. Like all systems, it is prone to dissipate and eventually collapse.

[Anonymous No.17224708]

>>17224619
20th Century showed you can engineer "the popular will" into basically anything. It's fictitious.

[Anonymous No.17224721]

>>17224692
Take a look at the state of Western society.

[Anonymous No.17224726]

>>17224690
Besides we are mature enough now to know the cycles of civilization. This will be the enduring legacy of the West, the victory of the cycle over linear history (linear history works only at massive scales, the universe as such and teleology of it). Our mistake was to think that civilzations are linear, they are not. As soon as they deviate from the teleology of the world as such, they collapse. Augustine, Aquinas, Aristotle were right about everything, Spengler only analytically so. The naive mythos of humanism and Enlightenment categorically wrong. Modernity and postmodernity categorically wrong. Nietzsche analytically right but metaphysically wrong.

[Anonymous No.17224729]

>>17224619
Education is key. Have enough dumb bastards and it will fail. Unfortunately, dummies are often chads and therefore better at breeding.

[Anonymous No.17224730]

>>17224721
It's going fine. Could be better, but it's fine. The anarchists you see at protests and promoting their own vids on social media are a mere drop in the bucket.

[Anonymous No.17224755]

>>17224619
What the fuck does "work" mean in this context?

First define democray and then define what it means for it to work optimally before asking such a loaded question, because as far as I can tell democracy is working flawlessly in every country it's actually being practiced, IF you define it as:

1) 1 man, 1 vote(e.g. elections)
2) the peaceful transition of power.

These 2 features are arguably all you need to be called a democracy.

[Anonymous No.17224767]

>>17224730
Other than the pandemic of anxiety and depression, a culture that promotes promiscuity and drug usage, broken families and the rise of single motherhood. The elites are idiotic and promote divisive and stupid things like CRT.

Very healthy society you have there.

[Anonymous No.17224793]

>>17224767
>pandemic of anxiety and depression
Overblown
>a culture that promotes promiscuity and drug usage
Also overblown, particularly the part where these things ruin lives (stupidity ruins lives far more often)
>broken families and the rise of single motherhood
Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs
>The elites are idiotic and promote divisive and stupid things like CRT
No idea what you're even talking about here

Now, how about listing some of the positives for a balanced assessment? That way I'll know you aren't just one of these anarchist children yourself.

[Anonymous No.17224813]

Why would anybody think it was a good idea to put power into the hands of the worthless dregs of society who don't even know what's good for themselves let alone anybody else
Here's a good exercise to fully grasp the horror of the situation just go read twitter for a while and then think to yourself "these people control the future of where I live as much as I do"

[Anonymous No.17224826]

>>17224793
>Overblown
Not true. The rates of anxiety and depression are very high nowadays. People are not happy.

>Also overblown, particularly the part where these things ruin lives (stupidity ruins lives far more often)

Promiscuity and the usage of drugs are vicious behaviors that lead to worse lives. The promotion of vice is a very bad sign for a society.

>Can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs
"Just destroy families, bro, what could go wrong? No one cares about the psychological effect of this"

>No idea what you're even talking about here
Critical Race Theory

>positives
We have uh, Iphones and Netflix, wow so great so awesome. Who cares about the psychological and moral health of people.

[Anonymous No.17224827]

>>17224793
>some of the positives for a balanced assessmen
There are few positives of a democratic system that you couldn't find, at least pro forma, in dictatorships.

Free speech is a constitutional right in China too, yet no one would claim they have free speech over there. And the de facto stand of free speech in the Western world is fragile at best. You didn't use to face legal consequences per se, although that changed with the introduction of hate speech laws, yet US politicians and organizations still forcibly institutionalized people, made them lose their job, the same people were followed, harassed and surveilled. Yes, these are problems that occure in any kind of government. The problem isn't limited to democracies but democratic societies provide an especially fertile ground for interest groups that can and will abuse the system for their own advantages.

[Anonymous No.17224828]

>>17224767
people fetishize anxiety and depression and make it their internal identity, that's something I agree with but everything else is pretty meh.

[Anonymous No.17224849]

>>17224826
>The rates of anxiety and depression are very high nowadays.
But not so high that society is collapsing.
>Promiscuity and the usage of drugs are vicious behaviors that lead to worse lives.
This is true, in some cases. No society is perfect though.
>"Just destroy families, bro, what could go wrong? No one cares about the psychological effect of this"
Everyone cares, but plenty of people grow up in that situation and come out of it fine. It isn't easy, but it's done.
>Critical Race Theory
I know that, what I don't know is what you mean by "the elites" and their promotion of this and where your problem even lies in this.
>We have uh, Iphones and Netflix, wow so great so awesome.
Great, glad to know where you stand on the matter. You are an anarchist child who has no clue how society really works, or what it accomplishes on a daily basis. You aren't fit to comment on the state of Western society at large.

[Anonymous No.17224860]

>>17224721
Democracy exists outside of the west but the west is doing fine they still are the strongest countries.

[Anonymous No.17224861]

>>17224619
>>17224755
I'm assuming he means work "well" as in provide a spiritually good living. In which case I'd add on that democracy must then operate at a small scale with limited purview.
The problem with democracy in the US today is that all parts of the central government have too much power, and therefore "democracy" comes to mean "The majority telling the minority how to live" rather than "The majority deciding specific stances the nation takes on the global stage and minor details of domestic life" which was theoretically what it was supposed to do.
This is also why fraud happens, which is inevitably what leads to the breakdown of democracies as we're seeing today. When lots of power is concentrated in the central government, those who desire power will naturally gravitate to it. When those people are cunning and unscrupulous as we all know politicians are, they will begin to look outside legitimate methods of getting elected. This starts with promising voters things they intend to fulfill for the sake of getting elected. Then promising voters things they have no intention to fulfill. Then promising voters symbolic victories at best and using fraudulent systems to win. If the presidency was simply a representative of the US government and head of the armed forces, this would not happen, because the power in the position would be fairly negligible.

[Anonymous No.17224873]

>>17224827
Also the common misconception that a government, a political entity would deliberate give power to the people is very popular, yet doesn't make any sense. It's now what you see in Russia, in China, in India, in Arabia, in Europe etc. Neither the early "democratic" USA, or Polish commonwealth nor France were democratic because the right to vote and to participate in politics was either limited to a small number of people, land gentry, aristocrats etc. or the relative proportion in terms of who was represented was so skewed as to render the whole system non-sensical.
>>17224708
This is also an actual issue. Soft power alone can force people to conform to anything. For example, gay rights and gay pride did not become a thing the average US-american actually pushed for it. It was pushed by a group of special interest groups who had and still have disproportional political influence. By the time a certain percentage of people became supportive of homosexuality, a thing unimaginable for anyone as late as the '60s, the government eventually introduced gay rights. Obviously, did the government per se push for gay rights? No. But special interest groups did and the same special interest groups show that it only takes money and some thirty years to convert people into supporting something that their parents and grand-parents would have adamantly fought against.

[Anonymous No.17224886]

Democracy works best in small communities. The larger the group, the worse it works.

[Anonymous No.17224889]

>>17224849
>But not so high that society is collapsing.
A large percentage of people being miserable and anxious means something is wrong with society.

>This is true, in some cases. No society is perfect though.
A society that promotes vice is a society that is leading to dysfunction.
Promiscuity and drug abuse are terrible things that should not be promoted. A culture that promotes vices is a bad culture.

>Everyone cares, but plenty of people grow up in that situation and come out of it fine. It isn't easy, but it's done.
But the breakdown of family and its consequences are a terrible thing for society.

>I know that, what I don't know is what you mean by "the elites" and their promotion of this and where your problem even lies in this.
Having a stupid elite who promotes trash is good or bad for a society? What does it indicate about it?

>You are an anarchist
lol, what?

[Anonymous No.17224893]

>>17224861
>The problem with democracy in the US today is that all parts of the central government have too much power, and therefore "democracy" comes to mean "The majority telling the minority how to live"

What the fuck are you talking about dude? The U.S literally has 2 chambers of the legislature *and* a Constitution *specifically to stop the tyranny of the majority"

Alexander Hamilton literally argues about this in the Federalist Papers, if you only have 1 legislative house, it's just a countdown until the poor steal the money from the rich(His words), hence the Senate was created to put a check on the masses(e.g. the House of Reps) power to control economics.

The Constitution also has rights enshrined which require 2/3s of both legislatures to change, this is literally exactly how you try to stop the tyranny of the majority.

[Anonymous No.17224900]

>>17224886
Democracy works best in big countries. Small communities are much more prone to the tyranny of the majority than bigger republics. Madison covers this in federalist 10.

[Anonymous No.17224933]

>>17224813
The problem we have is that our elite is not better than the average person.
Good luck trying to do something where the aristocracy is like this guy.

(note to those who did not see this debate: prioritizing elderly people would save a lot more lives according to their models)

[Anonymous No.17224935]

>>17224900
I think any community can be prone to tyranny under certain circumstances. Small communities have more communal ties with eachother and thus are more aligned in outlook. The larger this becomes, disparity increases due to growth of alienation from the community.

However, I think it's best to set out parameters of what's meant by democracy because what the Greeks mean and what contemporary democracy is are different.

[Anonymous No.17224937]

>>17224889
>A large percentage of people being miserable and anxious means something is wrong with society.
>A society that promotes vice is a society that is leading to dysfunction.
You realize that all societies create waste, right? This ideal society you seem to have in mind where nothing goes wrong doesn't exist, has never existed, and will never exist, because it makes no sense. For a system to work, it MUST produce some waste, otherwise it hangs in stasis and is not actually a "system" (a collaborative effort between parts) at all. And this doesn't mean these issues should be disregarded and left to fester — it just means that your claim that these problems indicate that the society is functioning at a net negative is preposterously overblown.

>Promiscuity and drug abuse are terrible things that should not be promoted.
There are plenty of people who get along just fine with them. Some even need them.

>But the breakdown of family and its consequences are a terrible thing for society.
On the other hand, the breakdown of families is necessary and often perpetuated by the families themselves.

>Having a stupid elite who promotes trash is good or bad for a society?
There is no "elite" as you're imagining it. There's no group of people watching every little thing being done in every single classroom in every single university. Why do you think all of CRT is trash, anyway? Is it not an important topic, especially in a multi-racial democratic society?

>lol, what?
If you can't make a balanced assessment on society then your position regarding it is pretty damn clear and you shouldn't try criticizing it because your position is one-sided.

[Anonymous No.17224979]

>>17224937
>You realize that all societies create waste, right? This ideal society you seem to have in mind where nothing goes wrong doesn't exist, has never existed, and will never exist, because it makes no sense. For a system to work, it MUST produce some waste, otherwise it hangs in stasis and is not actually a "system" (a collaborative effort between parts) at all. And this doesn't mean these issues should be disregarded and left to fester — it just means that your claim that these problems indicate that the society is functioning at a net negative is preposterously overblown.
A society that promotes vice and leads to unhappiness to its people is not working well. It might lead to more wealth or more power. But if it leads to people living worse, vicious lives and becoming unhappy it is a crappy society.

>There are plenty of people who get along just fine with them. Some even need them.
Promiscuity and drug addiction lead to a worse life to those who engage in those vices. And to the families of those people. A rise in promiscuity and in drug addiction is a huge problem for society (even if unacknowledged in ours).

>On the other hand, the breakdown of families is necessary and often perpetuated by the families themselves.
Are you really going to say that for our society, having many children being raised without present fathers is not a bad thing?

>There is no "elite" as you're imagining it. There's no group of people watching every little thing being done in every single classroom in every single university.
We do have an elite. Every society has one, no matter how it claims to be egalitarian.

>Why do you think all of CRT is trash, anyway? Is it not an important topic, especially in a multi-racial democratic society?
You don't know what CRT if you think it is important for a multi-racial democratic society. It is poison for it.

[Anonymous No.17224981]

>>17224726
please explain to a brainlet the point about nietzsche

[Anonymous No.17224997]

>>17224813
>Why would anybody think it was a good idea to put power into the hands of the worthless dregs of society who don't even know what's good for themselves let alone anybody else

The proper function of democracy is not to allow the masses to govern, but to keep the aristocrats accountable to them.

[Anonymous No.17225020]

>>17224997
Actually, the proper function of democracy is to make people accept that power changes hands without there needing to be a civil war every time.

[Anonymous No.17225023]

>>17224981
Everything he said was retarded.

[Anonymous No.17225034]

>>17224997

Then it's kind of weird how it completely fails at that on every imaginable level

[Anonymous No.17225043]

>>17225020
I agree, and I think that's just the obverse of the point I made.

[Anonymous No.17225056]

>>17225034
Only in comparison to idealized governments. Compared to actual historical governments, it more or less succeeds.

[Anonymous No.17225091]

>>17224701
well yeah

[Anonymous No.17225128]

>>17224619
You can aristotle talks about but eventually it devolves into what you see today in the united states. Communism, feminism, wealth redistribution, and lynch mobs that are just as bad as any tyranny following every type of demagogue. You should read aristotles books politics. The USA was founded on the "good form" of rule by many and what you see today is the last and bad form before the real tyranny starts.

[Anonymous No.17225132]

>>17225043
I think what people dislike most about democracy is that by voting they are only legitimizing the politics that the politicians said they were going to pursue during the election cycle, but then the politicians don't actually do those things thus there is in practice always a constant failure of legitimation.

[Anonymous No.17225197]

>>17224979
>A society that promotes vice and leads to unhappiness to its people is not working well.
Again, every society does this, and not all of our society does this. Our society also promotes all kinds of virtues and leads to much happiness.

>Promiscuity and drug addiction lead to a worse life to those who engage in those vices.
Certainly not true in all cases with regards to promiscuity. Also, you changed from drug usage to drug addiction. Drug addiction is something else entirely, and is a far less common occurrence.

>Are you really going to say that for our society, having many children being raised without present fathers is not a bad thing?
Of course it is a bad thing. But bad things are necessary and can lead to good things, and they also don't indicate a total absence of good things.

>We do have an elite. Every society has one, no matter how it claims to be egalitarian.
If we have an elite, it is far more complex and far less organized than you are making it sound. They are not all promoting CRT, and are not all promoting the same works or views.

>You don't know what CRT if you think it is important for a multi-racial democratic society. It is poison for it.
How so? Have you read every work in the field and attended every class on it?

[Anonymous No.17225241]

>>17224619
Democracy can work, but it's inefficient in some ways.
Luckily (or not) we don't really have proper democracies. We have partial democracies, where people are happy to just vote for some representatives. The actual retarded masses don't call the shots, for the most part.

[Anonymous No.17225246]

>>17224619
It works great as long as there is accountability(read: guillotines) for those given power under it

[Anonymous No.17225253]

>>17225246
oh, also, this should go without saying but the leaders and the led must be cut from the same cloth, as must the vast majority of the population. There must be shared culture, goals, values, and blood.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17225277]

>>17224619
>anarchy is freedom
>unequals are treated as equals

WHATS THE GODDAMN PROBLEM?

[Anonymous No.17225292]

>>17224935
Sure but co-ordination between people is easier the fewer people there are. A small democracy can easily become 2 wolves and a sheep voting on what is for dinner. While big democracies have innumerable factions which must reach very broad compromises to operate effectively.

[Anonymous No.17225299]

>>17224619
Yes. Return to tradition, take the Hoppepill

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17225305]

>>17225299
Fuck that brand of tradition

[Anonymous No.17225325]

>>17225277
You've missed the point completely. For a state to be founded on messianic presumptions (ie. the equality of all actual inequality) the state has to recourse to justification after justification for its de-hierarchization in accordance with ever-remote moralistic ideals (see Derrida). Hence why any communist state will implode and every socialist imperial vision crumble with time. Iincidentally that's also the general trend we see reflected in history. States founded on some manner of principle of reflecting a genuine and real hierarchy becomes much more effective at attending to its population. The question of whether a state should be egalitarian or hierarchized is too reductive; the really productive question which nobody wants to realize because it upends their dualistic preconceptions about the world consists in this: To what extent should the state be egalitarian or hierarchized, and when?

[Anonymous No.17225336]

>>17225305
Give a QRD and if it's good and interesting enough I'll add it to my reading list

[Anonymous No.17225339]

>>17224893
By power I should clarify that I mean "purview". There are too many things that the government has the power to regulate, it is not simply that it's too centralized.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17225343]

>>17225325
Sock stock soup.
It’s as if you’re whining to your mom about treating your little brother to an even sized meal, a similar bed and a roof over his head even. “He deserves less mom!”
>see Derrida
NEVER

[Anonymous No.17225344]

>>17225299
>why do you want anarchocapitalism, don't you know it just leads to feudalism

[Anonymous No.17225371]

>>17225343
>>see Derrida
>NEVER
Well, there's your issue. Read the orange nigga and I might respect you at least more than nil. You may be well-read, but your capacity for addressing genuine argument is nigh nonexistent, as evidenced by your recourse to presuming my stance to the end of, not even refuting some argument, but merely defacing me.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17225411]

>>17225371
You posted Peterman (And I haven’t had my coffee) so I wasn’t taking your post as genuine.

[Anonymous No.17225436]

>>17225411
Idk it's just a cool pic. What can I say, I like old men with swords. What I think isn't too far from Peterson, anyway. Perhaps my stance's just so ridiculous to you it occurs as a shitpost.

[Anonymous No.17225469]

>>17224933
He is not in the elite, but you're actually right about the decline of their education.

[Anonymous No.17225471]

>>17224627
what is wrong about making the smartest person to rule?

[Anonymous No.17225490]

[Anonymous No.17225508]

>>17224813
rats will always elect rats, dogs will elect dogs

[Anonymous No.17225543]

>>17224828
I bet someone from middle ages or before had 1000x less anxiety and depression than people from today

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17225660]

>>17225436
Read it.
It presupposes much and I don’t buy it.
It’s not a state that I propose. What it is is infinitely versatile. And there’s nothing “real” about the status quo.
Again. Anarchism is a questioning of all unjustifiable hierarchies, not the abolition of them.

[Anonymous No.17226454]

>>17225471
>what is wrong about making the smartest person to rule?

No idea, maybe that the majority of them are psychopaths and narcissists .

[Anonymous No.17227366]

>>17226454
psychopathy is not smart because we are a social species

[Anonymous No.17227426]

>>17226454
And yet monarchies last for millennia, even changing dynastic hands, without any major social upheaval to the governing process. But no democracy has even approached 500 years without collapsing.

[Anonymous No.17227463]

Reminder that in Plato’s time Democracy didn’t even mean everyone could vote.

[Anonymous No.17227473]

>>17227426
Smartest isn’t always the best person is his point I think. If you had said best, instead of smartest, it would be different.

[Anonymous No.17227496]

>>17227463
agreed, if women could vote it would be 1000000x worse

[Anonymous No.17227518]

>>17227473
That's the benefit of older systems. You can't weasel your way into being the son of the king like you can being the president, well at least not nearly as easily.

[Anonymous No.17227547]

>>17227473
I think you mistake being smart with being astute or malicious

[Anonymous No.17227785]

>>17225197
>Again, every society does this, and not all of our society does this. Our society also promotes all kinds of virtues and leads to much happiness.
This is not much of a defense of the vice promotion of our society. And given how miserable people are, our society promotes vices in a very extreme way.

>Certainly not true in all cases with regards to promiscuity. Also, you changed from drug usage to drug addiction. Drug addiction is something else entirely, and is a far less common occurrence.
It is in all cases with regards to promiscuity. And you mentioned "people who need them". Someone who needs drugs or promiscuity to live is an addict.

>Of course it is a bad thing. But bad things are necessary and can lead to good things, and they also don't indicate a total absence of good things.
How is the breakdown of the family something that leads to good things?

>If we have an elite, it is far more complex and far less organized than you are making it sound. They are not all promoting CRT, and are not all promoting the same works or views.
Of course we have an elite and it doesn't even need to be organized to be one.

>How so? Have you read every work in the field and attended every class on it?
I have read enough of it to know it is poison.

[Anonymous No.17228191]

>>17224627
plato is hereby King of /lit/

[Anonymous No.17228323]

>>17224729
>Education is key
Education is not valuable in a democracy, especially one open to the masses such as modern ones. In a raw numbers game, having supporters give birth will secure power over time and thus facilitate long term stability or change.
Needing birth+education of your constituents means more investment for the same return (a vote). Its fundamentally taxing, and thus anyone who can position themselves in favor of the minimum (just being alive) will inevitably have advantage over those who are appealing to the educated. Amplify this by a tendency for poor/uneducated people to have kids at an earlier age and easy of being bought out given that money is a struggle in their life and its clear that education will never be valued in a democracy as it doesnt secure power

[Anonymous No.17228549]

>>17224860
China has basically eclipsed America just a few decades after industrializing

[Anonymous No.17228563]

>>17228549
The power of a planned economy and a strong central government

[Anonymous No.17228572]

Democracy only works in a homogenous nation. In theory, Homogenous doesn’t have to mean racially homogenous, but in practice I don’t see any other way.

[Anonymous No.17228605]

>>17224667
>people have different interests
That's literally the point of democracy though. To represent the majority opinion. there's no reason we need to "reconcile conflicting interests" -- if 51% of people say no to all abortion, and 49% say yes to all abortion, abortion is banned; the inverse, abortion the day prior to childbirth is legal.

The problem is representative democracy, in which individuals do not vote on issues, but on candidates who reflect their opinions. The problem is, no candidate will reflect all of an individual's opinions, so necessarily a vote for a particular candidate is a compromise on one's own values. Compromises are very nebulous and could arrive at very different places depending on how you set up the scenario, even with the exact same people voting. Because elections happen so irregularly, there's not a quick enough refinement process to actually get to representatives that represent the majority opinions -- instead, they represent some mishmash of opinions that is generally acceptable to the populace, but might not be the /most/ acceptable mishmash. Democracy doesn't have this problem, because on every given issue, most people agree with the way things are done. Whereas with representative democracy, a small number of single issue voters can completely derail a candidate's platform if the rest of voters don't care enough about that one single issue to switch their vote, even if they don't support it. Prime example is support for Israel -- there isn't a party that doesn't support Israel, because Jews are single issue voters and no candidate can get elected if every Jew switches to the other candidate.

[Anonymous No.17228612]

>>17225197
Have you driven around America's heartland? Have you been to west virginia? Have you been to ohio? Have you been to detroit? Post whatever statistic or graph you want, but do you have eyes?

[Anonymous No.17228624]

>>17228563
Yes.

[Anonymous No.17228630]

>>17228612
America is a third world country. It just has the strongest military and control of international markets. It could have a productive economy and an extremely comfortable, educated, and morally upstanding citizenry, but that would be MUH GOMMUNISM

[Anonymous No.17228634]

>>17225197
all drug use is drug addiction

[Anonymous No.17229179]

>>17228605
>Prime example is support for Israel -- there isn't a party that doesn't support Israel, because Jews are single issue voters and no candidate can get elected if every Jew switches to the other candidate.
Jews are still only 2% of the population and much more support could be gained by opposing Israel than winning that margin; the problem is that the majority of the population doesn't have the mental horsepower nor time to have a nuanced perspective on politics. With not much choice besides having their opinion manipulated by the press, whoever controls said press controls opinions and can distract the populace at will. Mass media and the human intelligence distribution make this a huge problem with modern democracy, ultimately some sort of control needs to be put on the press to prevent such misuse. Democracy will merely be plutocrats dictating public opinion otherwise.

[Anonymous No.17229200]

>>17229179
>much more support could be gained by opposing Israel than winning the margin
No, it couldn't. Obviously it's a simplification to say Jews are the only ones who care about Israel, but the point remains -- a small number of single issue voters decides the majority.

[Anonymous No.17229252]

>>17224889
>Promiscuity and drug abuse are terrible things that should not be promoted. A culture that promotes vices is a bad culture.

Don't be so conservative that the devil can buy a soul for some freshly whipped butter.

[Anonymous No.17229258]

>>17224671
Democracy can't work, its built as a weapon of war a poison pill to undermine and destroy nations an people.

The entire point of democracy is chaos and building a small order to rule it threw deception and violance.

[Anonymous No.17229271]

>>17224702
No it can't ever work for the majority or the minority who will be forever continuely at odds in such a system.

[Anonymous No.17229291]

Democracy and its consequences has been a disaster for humanity.

[Anonymous No.17229307]

>>17224755
Work mens not fall apart, self-destruct, cause head chopper to rome the streets and have a manifest destiny of the stars.

Not working means it becomes unstable to the point of collapseing into tyranny or some other forced violence and brutal control.

[Anonymous No.17229333]

>>17224861
How about starting with not being beaten to death with a rock just walking down the street.

Set a bar and meet it.

[Anonymous No.17229343]

>>17224627
Ahhh, Plato-sama! I kneel.

[Anonymous No.17229865]

>>17228549
you can't rely on private companies for anything, they sold themselves to China for a bigger margin of profit

[Anonymous No.17229872]

>>17224619
Anarchy works.

[Anonymous No.17229888]

>>17224619
The notion of aristocracy for Plato and Aristotle has nothing to do with what is traditionaly called aristocracy or oligarchy. Their aristocracy is simply the rule of the wisest and the strongest in a society.

[Anonymous No.17230708]

>>17229888
Nigga they practically had a caste system.

[Anonymous No.17230732]

>>17225343
>It’s as if you’re whining to your mom about treating your little brother to an even sized meal
Are you actually too retarded to see the problem with your own example?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17230745]

>>17230732
Are you going to delete this post soon or are you not going to think about it?

[Anonymous No.17230753]

>>17226454
Psychopaths and narcissists are who they are purely out of ignorance. If you prevent the smartest person from ruling, you will only get someone else more psychopathic and narcissistic, not less.

[Anonymous No.17230787]

>>17230745
Oh you actually are, sorry about that. Try to find your handler.

[Anonymous No.17230811]

>>17230745
Not anon but have you ever heard of a dietician advocating for an objective, equal diet for everyone: men and women, athletes and sloths, children and elderly, even for the sick and the healthy? Sounds pretty retarded, doesn't it?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17230821]

>>17230787
So you’re imagining the little brother as very small. Like a two year old, is that your problem?

[Anonymous No.17230841]

>>17230821
Some of us are born with functioning brains and penises and are therefore larger than younger brothers. Since you're obviously you're deficient in both read >>17230811 to learn why "equality" is worthless for material needs. Once you're done read >>17225325 again.

[Anonymous No.17230877]

>>17224873
There's also the example of cigarettes being marketed towards women by associating them with freedom. The classic example by Edward Bernays.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.17230901]

>>17230841
Ah. Your confession of autism concludes this little exchange, thanks

[Anonymous No.17231006]

>>17230901
Still waiting for an argument? Why do you want both army drones and office drones to eat the same meals?

[Anonymous No.17231009]

>>17225371
>anarkiddies
>reading