/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17220744]

Books on reviving tradition? And traditional critique of Islam?

[Anonymous No.17220748]

>50’s america
>traditional

[Anonymous No.17220754]

>>17220744
False dichotomy

[Anonymous No.17220757]

>>17220744
Please just end your miserable existence.

[Anonymous No.17220759]

>>17220744
>traditional critique of Islam?
All of the Traditionalists praised Islam. If anything, Christianity is the thing that needs to be critiqued from a traditional viewpoint.

[Anonymous No.17220760]

>>17220744
These are pictures of the same thing.

[Anonymous No.17220762]

>>17220744
i will choose the life of the twitterfag - to take it, of course

[Anonymous No.17220780]

>>17220744
Rightists belong in camps.

[Anonymous No.17220793]

>HURRRRR DURRRRRRRRR LOOK AT THIS OLD AD WITH FAMILY VALUES DA JOOZ AND THE GAYS TOOK THIS FROM YOU
tradfags should be genocided

[Anonymous No.17220801]

>>17220748
Well.. still much better than today.

[Anonymous No.17220813]

[Anonymous No.17220826]

Gotta be honest. Both of these look awful. 50s media is so unbearably soulless. Literally created the serial killer epidemic of the 60s and 70s

[Anonymous No.17220827]

>>17220744
all these revive tradition retards would be like the guy from death of a salesman, they wouldn’t be the happy, fit, put together, and successful family man of propaganda. Tradition isn’t the issue, it’s yall being at the bottom of the gene pool

[Anonymous No.17220844]

>>17220827
The modern world is incredibly dysgenic. This is backed up by statistics showing the decline in IQ every year.
Cities are IQ shredders. If anything, being a low IQ retard at the bottom of the gene pool means you have better odds of reproducing than the high IQ geniuses.

[Anonymous No.17220863]

The guy on the left looks like he's having a much better time than anyone on the right

[Anonymous No.17220892]

>>17220748
Yeah. It's something that existed for only a few decades. It's the privileged lifestyle of a great empire at the peak of its power. There's nothing traditional about it.

[Anonymous No.17220934]

>>17220863
he looks like he's getting another dopamine hit from his acquisition of material pleasures and will probably kill himself in 5 years.

[Anonymous No.17220945]

Oh no, my post-industrial society that I...liked? I don't know, why do you keep posting these idealized advertisements from the 50's?

[Anonymous No.17220994]

Why is it that on /lit/ people shit on /pol/tards but /lit/ discord servers are always filled with illiterate /pol/tards?

[Anonymous No.17221007]

>>17220844
Oh yeah, the pre-modern world was famous for having a high number of high IQ individuals, education very widespread. The modern city has done so much damage to people knowing things and becoming intelligent

[Anonymous No.17221012]

>>17220994
Discord is full of nazi cucks, it’s an app for fascists

[Anonymous No.17221023]

>>17221007
It has though, consider what welfare and modern technology promote vs a malthusian environment where anyone who doesn't have low time preference starves in the winter

[Anonymous No.17221037]

>>17221007
>famous for having a high number of high IQ individuals, education very widespread
No, education wasn't as egalitarian as today. Egalitarian education pulls the gifted down more than it elevates the average.

[Anonymous No.17221039]

>>17221007
>thinking that because technology has improved that IQ perpetually rises with it

Oof. Maybe stick to daytime TV.

[Anonymous No.17221042]

>>17220844
that’s not how IQ works. 100 is always the average

[Anonymous No.17221065]

>>17221042
Given a certain standard of 100 the average can drop or rise, the average will just then be recalibrated to fit the new population so that the distribution remains normal.

[Anonymous No.17221082]

>>17221007
People have access to more information now but are functionally stupider, they can't remember as much. Even when people were illiterate they had a much finer ear and memorized a lot

[Anonymous No.17221130]

>>17220744
Mindless consumerism is the end of Capitalism.
Everyone is trying to escape in their entertainment. The "immersion" is so important to them because they don't want to be taken away from their fake reality. This is a generalization, but I believe it to be quite true.

[Anonymous No.17221137]

>>17220934
based

[Anonymous No.17221154]

>>17220744
Statue pfps are the fascist equivalent of anime pfps. Opinion discarded.

[Anonymous No.17221164]

>>17221042
>>17221065
>so that the distribution remains normal

The distribution would remain normal regardless of whether 100 is the mean or not. That's just what it's standardized at. You guys understood what he meant by the way, idk why you're nitpicking about it.

[Anonymous No.17221172]

>>17220844
>This is backed up by statistics showing the decline in IQ every year.

The decline of IQ and test scores in the U.S. graphs pretty well to the influx of immigration from third world countries.

>Cities are IQ shredders
Because they have a higher proportion of the aforementioned people from third world countries, yes.

[Anonymous No.17221644]

>>17220994
Only a massive faggot would join a 4chan discord server so it's natural that it selects for /pol/tards

[Anonymous No.17222156]

>>17221644
/pol/tards and trannies, mind you. In some cases it's both.

[Anonymous No.17222333]

>>17220748
Based.

[Anonymous No.17222343]

>>17220748
wasn't traditional at all, but it was incredibly fucking based, whether you were just raising a family, or being a colossal degenerate, either way.

[Anonymous No.17222408]

>>17222343
>muh kitsch ads!!!!

[Anonymous No.17222409]

why do so many people hate the idea of white families so much?

[Anonymous No.17222447]

>>17222408
>muh unparalleled economic prosperity for the working class, and explosion of personal freedom and libertinism due to cheap cars, highways, and new drugs

[Anonymous No.17222448]

>>17220760
This guy gets it

[Anonymous No.17222462]

>>17222343
>in 50's America
>it was incredibly fucking based being a colossal degenerate
Tradcucks are extra dumb this season it seems

[Anonymous No.17222476]

>>17222447
muh wait these are actually good things dumbfuck

[Anonymous No.17222481]

>>17222409
Nobody does. It's just trannies and Twitter users.

[Anonymous No.17222485]

>>17222476
That's my point, it was awesome and we will never, ever get a period like that in our gay future

[Anonymous No.17222487]

>>17222462
>wasn't traditional
>tradcucks are dumb
Even if you're frothing at the mouth to get a dunk in your reading comprehension should be better than this

[Anonymous No.17222493]

>>17220748
Yes.

The only difference is that historically there would be more kids and the dad might be a bit more drunk.

[Anonymous No.17222497]

>>17220748
Fpbp, Amerimutt LARPers btfo

[Anonymous No.17222523]

>>17220744
I know for a fucking fact the guy that posted this looks EXACTLY like the one on the left. The entire basedboy meme is pure bugmen projection. Their adherence to extreme political stances like fascism is literal overcompensation for not being masculine enough.

[Anonymous No.17222535]

>>17222487
The 50's were "traditionalist" or close enough to traditionalism relative to modern standards. It doesn't make any fucking sense to limit the word only to pre-Renaissance Europe since progressive and traditionalist are relative terms based on a specific time frame.
>Even if you're frothing at the mouth to get a dunk
I didn't even had to say anything, you dunked on yourself by having the dumbest take possible. Yeah I am sure being gay was so much fun in the 50s. Braindead fucking retard.

[Anonymous No.17222538]

>>17222523
>The entire basedboy meme is pure bugmen projection.
soiboys and bugmen are related species, especially in terms of their consumption-based identities, The bugman has a bit more edge to him than the soiboy however

[Anonymous No.17222545]

>>17220744
Wow, that Twitterfag sure is reviving tradition! Based! Based! Based!

[Anonymous No.17222556]

>>17222535
>im sure being gay was so much fun in the 50s
>le william s burroughs face
Faggots back then were of an enormously higher calibre than faggots now. enjoy your gay nu-world

Calling anything in 20th century America traditionalist is fucking retarded, and all the reasons that era was great were innovations

[Anonymous No.17222559]

>>17222523
is there any actual moral/logical reason that its a bad thing that some people see the problems in society and want to become something better? its better than embracing their own shortcomings and making up weird moral excuses for why being scum with no dignity or self respect is actually beautiful

[Anonymous No.17222565]

>>17220744
>HURR LET ME POST PICTURE OF SOME DUDE GETTING VIDYA GAMES OR A PIECE OF ART THATS SUPPOSED TO EVOKE CERTAIN EMOTIONS
>WHICH WILL YOU CHOOSE?

[Anonymous No.17222577]

>>17220744

[Anonymous No.17222594]

>>17222556
Not that anon, but are you by chance retarded or, maybe drunk? What the hell are you babbling about.

Get off this board you cockroach

[Anonymous No.17222605]

>>17222594
I'm explaining why the 50s were incredibly based, something that is apparently beyond your pea-brained abilities to grasp

[Anonymous No.17222610]

>>17222577
Does anyone actually look at a painting and feel anything? Because I sure don't. Music is superior.

[Anonymous No.17223011]

>>17222485
except it is neoliberalism which promises cheap cars and personal freedom which right wingers like the pic in the OP rails against

[Anonymous No.17223017]

why do traditionists love islam when the qur'an literally just poorly written christian fanfiction by a guy who barely even remembered the bible

its the 50 shades of grey of religion

[Anonymous No.17223024]

i choose the steppe

[Anonymous No.17223027]

>>17220744
>Twitter User
>Western Traditionalist
>Using a painting of 50s muttrica as a benchmark for peak tradition
like pottery

[Anonymous No.17223032]

>>17223011
>neoliberalism which promises cheap cars and personal freedom
it was a chance historical circumstance, a confluence of technological changes, geopolitical and domestic developments, and cultural trends, that will never be recreated

i dont care about whoever is in ops pic, I was just commenting on the 50s(which is not trad in any way, we are just so dysfunctional that the idea of families is apparently 'trad' now)

[Anonymous No.17223045]

I dont think they understand that the 1950s were literally the beginning of the modern life style. at least they're pro family though. better then going out of your way to worship degeneracy because you had some fun smoking weed as a teenager

[Anonymous No.17223060]

>>17220744
I don't know guys that new Monster Hunter game looks sick

[Anonymous No.17223072]

>>17220744
Ah yes, the two options, debased basedfacing over a Switch and embarking on a hopelessly benighted life, boxed in by the most hidebound traditions, neglecting your children while your wife does nothing but face Benzedrine and obsessively cook and clean all day.

[Anonymous No.17223081]

>>17223072
>every couple in the 50s were drug addicted abusive soulless zombies
lmao you're like a Christian grandma gibbering about Satanic rock music

[Anonymous No.17223100]

I choose T.S. Eliot's way.
You don't need to be a vacuous and derivative puritan who blindly follows "tradition".
Instead, you can study tradition and modify it yourself, imposing your own mind upon it and thus creating a new originality, guided by timeless wisdom yet filled with vital force.

[Anonymous No.17223103]

>>17223081
>every man in the 20s is vidya addicted abusive soulless zombies
lmao you're like a Christian grandma gibbering about Satanic rock music

[Anonymous No.17223112]

>>17223081
No, I'm just pointing out that whether your life is good and fulfilled doesn't have to do with the time you're born in or the 'traditions' you live your life by.

Just like you don't have to live according to the most soul-sucking, onions patterns of modern life, you could avoid the (numerous) pitfalls of mainstream 1950s life.

[Anonymous No.17223117]

>>17222610
Yes, me and quite a large amount of people.
Do you see colors correctly? You may be color-blind and not know it.

[Anonymous No.17223120]

>>17223103
touche i should be slapped

[Anonymous No.17223121]

>>17220759
ugh and these fucking EVANGELICALS, right?!
moreover, can the fanfiction wars just get their own fucking containment board already?

[Anonymous No.17223127]

>>17223117
>Do you see colors correctly?
I pass color blindness tests.

[Anonymous No.17223153]

>>17223112
>whether your life is good and fulfilled doesn't have to do with the time you're born in or the 'traditions' you live your life by.
Well it is in part related to that, it has an effect, but of course I agree there are many other things that matter

[Anonymous No.17223166]

>>17222610
>>17222610
Sometimes it helps to know the story of a painting than to merely interpret it as an image in a vacuum. I stumbled onto some paintings representing the turning point in the story of Ino and Athanasius when Tisiphone was sent to drive them mad. I probably wouldn't have thought they were very interesting or even did a double-take and realized what I was looking at without knowing that story, but I do now so they really stood out to me and I studied them for a little while and it was a fun experience.

[Anonymous No.17223169]

>>17223166
Ino and Athamas*

holy God damn FUCK I hate autocorrect refusing to acknowledge manual updates to its dictionary and retroactively refuting the end-user anyways

[Anonymous No.17223187]

Modern consumerism, or the beginning of modern consumerism. Neither desu. The late 40s/early 50s was start of the mass produced cheap shit replace it every year to keep up with the style nonsense.

[Anonymous No.17223206]

>>17223103
I am tho

[Anonymous No.17223250]

>>17220744
I stopped paying so attention to "traditionalism" (which had seem somewhat seductive at first) after I begun investigating contemporary art and realized that it is in extremely good shape.

With the exception of classical music, which looks half-doomed, half-great, thanks respectively to atonalism and minimalism/neoromanticism/poly-stylism, the other arts are doing rather well.

>novel
Vargas Llosa, Krasznahorkai, Houellebecq, Javier Marias, McCarthy, Pynchon, Fosse, Lobo Antunes, Peter Handke all belong to the great tradition of the novel and are still alive. Antunes is not inferior to Faulkner, nor is Krasznahorkai much less psychologically dense than Kafka, or Houellebecq less groundbreaking in his exploration of "forbidden" themes than D.H. Lawrence or Flaubert. It's only the fact that they are our contemporaries that makes us see them as automatically "inferior".

>poetry
Adunis, Ko Un, Zagajewski, Simic, Carson are alive. And let us remember that Geoffrey Hill, Heaney and Bonnefoy died only a few years ago.
Poetry has already been in a superior state, such as in the age of Pound, Eliot, Lorca, Montale and Pessoa, but it's by no means in a bad state today. Furthermore, it's untranslatable, so great poets take longer to become noticed. How many of us can judge contemporary Russian, Norwegian, Greek or Hungarian poetry? Maybe the country of Krasznahorkai also has some great living poet, but we haven't heard of him yet because translators aren't up to the task... I know that in my own native tongue there are some great poets that are virtually unknown to those who can't read it.

>painting
Great neo-symbolism of the Nerdrum school, Anselm Kiefer, Gerhard Richter, Peter Doig, Michael Borremans, Paula Porto, many interesting photographers. Lucian Freud, Andrew Wyath, Kitaj and others died not long ago.
Painting is doing well. Perhaps better than it was doing in some of the 18th century or in some of the 19th, when all people did was to copy others and try to imitate the masters (although there were always exceptions - such as Piranesi, Blake and Turner).

>cinema
Werner Herzog, Sokurov, Bela Tarr, Jean-Luc Godard, David Lynch, Paolo Sorrentino, Jodorowsky, Terrence Malick, Polanski have all released works in the past decade. I have a feeling that cinema might actually be doing worse than it was during the golden age of the 50's, 60's and 70's, when we had Bergman, Fellini, Antonioni, Buñuel and others releasing masterpieces every year. But that was really a golden age, and therefore necessarily an exception.
Still, it could be worse. We aren't doing badly. There are also some Asian directors who are really good and younger, such as Apichatpong Weerasethakul (don't ask me how to pronounce it).

1/2

[Anonymous No.17223255]

>>17223250
>sculpture

I know very little about sculpture, unfortunately, so I can't really tell. Among the neoclassical there is Alexander Stoddart. I also like the Irish sculptor Rowan Gillespie.

>theater

I know very little about theater. Perhaps most of it moved to cinema. Still, Tom Soppard and Peter Handke aren't dead yet. And there is that Tony Kushner guy whom Harold Bloom admired.

>classical music

Gorécki, Penderecki, Raautavara, Ligeti, John Tavener all died within this century. Arvo Part, Philip Glass and Steve Reich are still alive.

When you come to think of it, our high culture is in great condition. As for the lower cultures, well, they have always been lower. The average person was equally mediocre in 1950 as it is today. Only they substituted a perverted, puritanic version of Christianity for a more hippiesque worldview.

So why go back to tradition when our culture is producing so many profound, original and interesting artworks?


2/2

[Anonymous No.17223282]

>>17220744
>Western civilization performs soft eugenics
>noooo you have to perpetuate your inferior nature in the next generation nooo
Let modern society prune the useless branches from the tree. They will not be missed.

[Anonymous No.17223298]

>>17222610
It depends on the painting, but just as with music the physical environment can be controlling. Being physically in the room and being alone withe painting really helps, also sometimes you're just not in the mood and it doesn't strike you. Sometimes I'm in love with Manet sometimes I pass him by after only a glimpse.

[Anonymous No.17223449]

>>17223187
This. The image is nothing more than a timeline of consoomerism.

[Anonymous No.17223463]

>>17222447
Sounds just as degenerate if you're anywhere near a normal person, its all built on a house of cards that future generations have to pay for, just so you can have a weak slave proto-consumerist life. Imagine not seeing the opportunity to be a man in this modern world, how much better you have to be than everything around you. You're not a man if you only dream about things being like how they used to be.

[Anonymous No.17223467]

>>17222559
Because the only option the so called 'seers' can provide is going backwards to something impossible for the future, aka whining, and its not very masculine, nor creative, nor intelligent. Honestly, one of the most rotten and draining thought cycles you can live in is the 'well, its not as bad as X, so its all good'. If you have any self respect, you know its complete bullshit. The good thing is, realizing that you fit the bill motivates you to grow and become better. One of the best things that can happen to you is realizing you are alone, and responsible for your own life, even if it isn't true.

[Anonymous No.17223553]

>>17223467
I dont think focusing on more wholesome values instead of living to consoom&coom like a perpetual teenager is "impossible for the future"

I will say that the people who bluntly say that "we need to go back and stay the way things were" are dumb, im personally more partial to the idea of "going back on a few poor choices and choosing a different path forward" and i think its dumb to imply that "progress" is automatically one specific path

[Anonymous No.17223558]

>>17223255
>>17223250
Thank you for these posts Anon. I have been willing to get into modernity for a while now

[Anonymous No.17223561]

>>17220748
Yeah this is why “conservatives” are fucking cringe, they are liberals. Not Traditional whatsoever, and conserve the garbage that erodes any Traditional chain we still have.

[Anonymous No.17223672]

>>17223250
Based. The truth is we wouldn't want to go back to tradition even if we could. We've already experienced the things that have come past it, and so we'd either immediately see its downfall or become disillusioned with its faults.

[Anonymous No.17223681]

brainlets think tradition exists within time

[Anonymous No.17223684]

>>17220748
Traditional is the new progressive.

Imagine this, you give someone a positive ideal, a happy family, father is the provider, mother takes care of the house, child happy, all White and clean neighbourhood.

Suddenly a traditionalist faggot comes along and says: Yeah dude, better not follow this ideal, its not traditional.

Yes mate, lets lock our wives up in the broomcloset, while we sell our daughters to the highest bidder, while out youngest son is learning to kill animals, so one day he can take bloodvengeance, because of the death of his uncle. Dad meanwhile is fucking his black houseslave, because he owns her and he would be fucking his male slaves too, but dads not into butts that much, though no shame on his if he is the one doing the fucking. When dad is done fucking, he is looking for a nice niece to marry off to his son, after he is done killing his neighbours cattle and raping his neighbours daughter as revenge.

[Anonymous No.17223695]

>>17220744
>neoconservative liberalist consumerism posted by a faggot twitter-user
>tradition
Americans should be annihilated
>And traditional critique of Islam?
True traditionalists usually eventually convert to Islam (guenon, schuon, etc), the “traditionalists” that hate Islam (like scruton) are almost entirely humanists who love the enlightenment, not tradition.

[Anonymous No.17223697]

>>17223558
You're welcome.

I was somewhat a conservative of sorts a few years ago - aesthetically, that is.
It wasn't really ideological, but had more to do with the fact that I hadn't started to deeply explore modernist works yet. I knew about them, but was reading other things.

Now I have become more aware of the great artists working today and of how their subversion of traditional form is necessary if you wish to be truly honest about things that are happening around you in the 21st century. Eventually, after you start to read about modernism and understand what it means, specially to authors such as T.S. Eliot, who probably knew tradition better than anyone else alive in his generation, yet subverted it more than anyone else also, then you begin not only to understand it intellectually, but also to appreciate aesthetically the new kinds of beauty and sublimity that have been able to emerge amid this constant search for modes of expression that can be relevant and stay relevant in a world in which it's getting harder and harder to make things durable.