Say one good argument against god existing, you can't. Even smart men like Plato tried and he failed so hard that Christianity became the biggest religion in the world.

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Anonymous Tue Jan 5 22:36:21 2021 No.17213611 [Reply] [Original]

Say one good argument against god existing, you can't. Even smart men like Plato tried and he failed so hard that Christianity became the biggest religion in the world.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 22:45:51 2021 No.17213685 >>17213611 The universe does not logically depend on God to exist, be orderly, and functional. The universe just "is" as it always was.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 22:50:13 2021 No.17213716 >>17213685 >The universe does not logically depend on God to exist, be orderly, and functional. The universe just "is" as it always was. wrong

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 22:52:17 2021 No.17213740 There's no good arguments either for or against God. All beliefs regarding God come from an individual's feelings. Having opinions about unknowable things is just pointless

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 22:53:10 2021 No.17213752 >>17213716

Anonymous Tue Jan 5 22:53:10 2021 No.17213753

>>17213611
Christianity is Platonism for the masses. Plato's forms resemble the later christian "god of the geometers", as a unified source of the inifinite divine. You are a retarded christcuck larper and should read some books, unless if this is a baitpost, and in that case, well played.
Regardless, it's a dogmatic presupposition based on the desire for something to guarantee presence.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 22:55:05 2021 No.17213773 >>17213740 I think there is this fundamental feeling that god is present in our lives. All knowledge is empirical, so why do we discount this feeling?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 22:56:32 2021 No.17213786 >>17213611 >Say one good argument against god existing, you can't. A divine and just creator wouldn't have made someone as dumb as you.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 22:58:20 2021 No.17213802 >>17213611 No evidence.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 22:58:21 2021 No.17213803 >>17213611 >>17213685 refuted by vertical causation

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 22:59:22 2021 No.17213813 >>17213716 Explain. You can’t just reply with “wrong” you faggot.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 22:59:37 2021 No.17213816 >>17213802 lmao, imagine being this dumb

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:00:38 2021 No.17213828 >>17213611 When did Plato argue against God?

Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:01:23 2021 No.17213837

>>17213773
The feeling - which is by no means universal: even the most devout believer often feels nothing like it at all - only tells us that we feel that God exists. In the same way, a schizophrenic may feel as though he knows people are watching him, he may even be certain of it. But it doesn't give him much to work on in terms of assessing its veracity.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:01:39 2021 No.17213841 >>17213611 Anon... I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJDYPZYMt0Q

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:02:32 2021 No.17213854 How can I know God without another telling me of him?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:02:57 2021 No.17213858 >>17213611 god is dead anon, accept it already

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:04:25 2021 No.17213869 >>17213773 good luck utilizing your feelings as a source of knowledge unless you're a woman

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:05:29 2021 No.17213885 >>17213611 You literally cannot refute the argument from motion.

Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:05:56 2021 No.17213893

>>17213773
I don't think it's a fundamental feeling. Plenty of people don't feel God. I don't, even though the idea makes sense logically to me.
People believe in what makes them happy, and then they say that this happy feeling is the "Holy Spirit" or "God." This feeling justifies their belief.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:06:07 2021 No.17213895 >>17213837 it is clear that you do not know the feeling, so I guess I was wrong about the universality, but if Christianity was just a stupid schizo thing it wouldn't have changed the world so much. There is something transcendental about it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:06:29 2021 No.17213898 >>17213854 Religions started somehow, generally with a burial and afterlife metaphysics

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:07:59 2021 No.17213909 >>17213895 also, god is in everything, so if you only praise pussy or some other basedshit like that, you are still praising the lord - everybody worships something

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:09:21 2021 No.17213923 >>17213895 But lots of religions have changed the world substantially.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:11:21 2021 No.17213937 >>17213923 And yet they all try to answer the same questions and all try to get to know the creator and have conclusions derived from their relationship with him and truth

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:11:26 2021 No.17213938 >>17213611 >Even smart men like Plato tried ??????

Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:12:14 2021 No.17213947

>>17213895
>but if Christianity was just a stupid schizo thing it wouldn't have changed the world so much [citation needed]
you don't have to justify you being religious anon, pretty much everyone accepts it but don't try to convince others of your baseless bullshit
thanks

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:12:21 2021 No.17213950 >>17213923 look at >>17213909

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:12:50 2021 No.17213955 >>17213937 And all offer different answers. What criterion do we have for determining the correct one?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:13:42 2021 No.17213961 >>17213947 baseless bullshit? that is where the real citation is needed.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:13:52 2021 No.17213963 >>17213950 Yeah I've been Catholic once and I like mysticism I understand the idea. I just don't understand your certainty.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:15:22 2021 No.17213973 >>17213963 well, sorry I am a bit tired, but the truth still stands

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:15:38 2021 No.17213977 >>17213898 so God is a social construct to better understand or manage death?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:17:13 2021 No.17213985 >>17213977 God is not a social construct. People are his construct.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:17:19 2021 No.17213986 >>17213716 In order for the world to be considered orderly, it must be subject to a system of order.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:18:22 2021 No.17214001 >>17213986 meant for >>17213685

Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:18:32 2021 No.17214002

>>17213955
Fundamentally they offer the same. Objective truth, objective morals (which many are similar conclusions or variants). It's farther down the conclusions that you find differences like assumptions of math (Sumerians were more astrological, pagans used their fingers and toes in a materialist sense).

Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:20:45 2021 No.17214025

>>17213977
Your relationship with any field of truth is continually founding. We don't call science a total social construct considering it has some material explanatory power. Similarly and your relationship grows with the foundation of reality you grow in your spirituality towards him.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:21:22 2021 No.17214028 >>17213909 God sustains all existence. This doesn't mean he takes the form of contingent things. That would devolve into Spinozism

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:21:38 2021 No.17214031 >>17214002 >Fundamentally they offer the same. Objective truth, objective morals (which many are similar conclusions or variants). There are also irreconcilable, fundamental differences. They are offering different Truths.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:22:22 2021 No.17214036 Spinoza

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:22:45 2021 No.17214042 >>17213986 wrong

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:23:33 2021 No.17214048 >>17214031 What's irreconcilable among them? I generally argue nothing is, one either founds the other or they're entirely disjoint but not contradictory

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:24:13 2021 No.17214051 >>17213740 Yahweh, the Jewish God? There's a great argument, namely that the earth is much older than He said and all the animals did not come out of a boat 4,300ya

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:24:35 2021 No.17214060 >>17214042 Not him but necessaarily to create an unordered set you need an ordered set even in math

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:24:43 2021 No.17214062 There's no practical consequences whether you believe God exists or not. It's just psychological tricks for the mentally unwell. OP, don't ever waste my time with such stupid bullshit again.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:25:36 2021 No.17214070 >>17213740 Then how can you say anything about anything much less a creator of the world?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:27:08 2021 No.17214081 >>17214062 t. Pagan who lost his whole tribe because some other tribe burned his dionysian animal sex cult at a stake because his ethical values were trash

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:27:46 2021 No.17214085 >>17213740 This statement is based off of your individual feelings.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:29:26 2021 No.17214098 >>17213841 muh logical fallacies

Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:29:31 2021 No.17214100

>>17213611
A simple argument is that saying God exists, does not give you any valuable answers. Because if you insist that the Universe must have a creator since existence cannot have come out of nothing, then you must agree that God himself could not have come into existence out of nothing.

So did God have a God that created him aswell?

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:30:15 2021 No.17214112 File: 24 KB, 640x480, 480.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17214062 lmao >There's no practical consequences >It's just psychological tricks for the mentally unwell. So, there are psychological consequences? also, this is you in the pic

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:30:49 2021 No.17214117 >>17214042 Then where does order come from?

Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:32:29 2021 No.17214126

>>17214112
>So, there are psychological consequences?
Comfort, a barrier against the existential pain of knowing we all will die one day, and we exist in a reality where we are forced to pretend things make sense, even tho they don't, and worse yet, we are shunned by society for speaking about this because it makes us all uncomfortable

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:32:30 2021 No.17214128 >>17214117 There can only be order but the order is degrading in relation to distance from truth or God

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:33:09 2021 No.17214133 >>17213869 Nigga, all science uses feelings lmao

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:34:25 2021 No.17214143 >>17214126 If existential pain is all there is then why do people experience fulfillment at all? Are you suggesting you can get pleasure from pain? Should we only punish good people legally? I don't understand your framework

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:35:49 2021 No.17214154 >>17214126 unironically read Lacan

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:37:04 2021 No.17214166 >>17213685 Prove your statement.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:37:14 2021 No.17214168 >>17214128 If order can degrade, the how can there be only order? Wouldn't disorder take its place?

Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:37:49 2021 No.17214174

>>17214143
I don't think existential pain is all there is, rather, all there is RIGHT NOW at this moment in time, where we find ourselves in a position where we are conscious, but we do not yet have the answers we seek.
The fact that fulfilment exists in some form hints that if we did have all the answers, perhaps we could be fulfilled.
My framework is that we don't have the answers, so we make up some to ease the pain of living on a rock in the middle of who the fuck knows where, hoping that one day we will. I don't see virtue in just believing in God as a way to cope, but if you do then do it, just don't force me to play along

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:39:10 2021 No.17214185 >>17214168 No because order never degrades completely. A null set can be derived from an unordered set but an unordered set isn't random.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:40:05 2021 No.17214190 >>17214133 no

Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:42:45 2021 No.17214207

>>17214174
Most people do not believe in God "just to cope". God has changed the world and keeps making it different all the time, if you don't want to see it - ok, you'll never see the full picture. You need to see more than just the object - a cop is not just a dude with a gun.

Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:43:47 2021 No.17214216

>>17214190
you are the biggest idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot idiot

Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:43:52 2021 No.17214219

>>17214185
Nevertheless, if a thing may be called partially orderly, by virtue of its distance to Truth and God (systems of order) then it must also be called partially disorderly because of its distance from Truth and God (systems of order). Therefore, there cannot be only order, but also disorder.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:44:50 2021 No.17214227 >>17214207 I don't think a cop is just a dude with a gun, and I think we'll never get anywhere until you define what you mean by ''God''

Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:45:07 2021 No.17214230
File: 282 KB, 1439x770, Screenshot_20210105-224342_Opera.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>17214174
Nobody can force you to do anything (gratefully or hopefully) but everyone necessarily seeks answers. We get lost along the way but there is no direction but truth. It can be a personal truth like lying to fulfill a goal but you seek the truth in that goal. You can't do anything else. A great verse which helps me all the time in picrel. Not only do you want to do right, you can only do right just some right things are more universal than others. As long as you do right you will not be punished (an example would be a famous mafia drug trafficker is even appreciated even if his truth isn't as universal but he must do a lot of right thing [take care of citizens in cities, give money etc] in order to get there). There's simply only truth and may you find what works for you and grow in it as you'll only grow in God but pick wisely.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:46:50 2021 No.17214243 >>17214219 You can't define disorder except by it being the absence of order. You can define order itself though. Another example, you can define light by photons or heat by temperature but you can't define darkness/cold except by the absence of those.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:49:45 2021 No.17214259 i love god

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:51:57 2021 No.17214275 >>17214243 >You can't define disorder except by it being the absence of order OK, and? Your the one trying to assert there is only order. You're refuting yourself.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:52:19 2021 No.17214277 >>17213611 Read Spinoza

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:52:23 2021 No.17214278 >>17214275 omg, you are cringe

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:54:04 2021 No.17214290 >>17214275 Order is just existence preservation from a creator. Photons and temperature are materially measurable.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:54:29 2021 No.17214297 Do me a solid, define order for me.

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:55:30 2021 No.17214308 >>17214297 meant for >>17214277

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:56:32 2021 No.17214316 >>17214297 >>17214308 meant for >>17214278

Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:57:02 2021 No.17214318

>>17214297
Existence preservation from creation. We know creation is definitionally monistic or is having one source so at the point of creation everything was one. The degradation of it is in the splitting of things from one. Order is being closer to universality or one

>>	Anonymous Tue Jan 5 23:57:11 2021 No.17214320 I wish the OPs in these threads would start by defining by they mean by God before rambling. For all I know God to you is some magical mechanical chicken living in Saturn, and shitting out Suns

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 00:03:42 2021 No.17214372 >>17214318 Sure, whatever, now with consideration for your post, tell me why >>17213986 is wrong.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 00:06:06 2021 No.17214390 >>17214372 Well definitionally it's proper. For x to have the attribute of being ordered it must be an element of order. It's not very informative but it's true

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 00:07:10 2021 No.17214395 >>17214390 So why were we arguing in the first place?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 00:12:49 2021 No.17214433 >>17214395 I didn't reply to that I replied to this >>17214117

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 00:22:21 2021 No.17214492 >>17214433 Funny how that works.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 00:25:03 2021 No.17214508 >>17214492 I can screenshot if you want but I don't see how our conversations would clash considering it seemed the person you responded to said order doesn't exist and I tried to argue it did.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 00:26:05 2021 No.17214516 File: 126 KB, 1440x393, Screenshot_20210105-232723_Opera.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>17214492 >>17214508

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 00:50:04 2021 No.17214641 >>17213813 wrong

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 00:54:18 2021 No.17214665 >>17213802 2.5/10 bait.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 01:16:33 2021 No.17214771 >>17213841 Interesting video. I’ve been going down the YouTube atheist rabbit hole recently.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 01:18:24 2021 No.17214779 >>17213611 You don't have to prove that God exists, theists have to prove that good DOES exist. It is literally impossible to disprove a deist type god because he doesn't effect anything.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 01:20:10 2021 No.17214785 >>17214062 Nigga you wasted your own time by reading the thread.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 01:24:43 2021 No.17214803 >>17213828 He probably means Euthyphro which argues against God as the arbiter of morality rather than against his existence (though it makes his existence superfluous).

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 01:30:00 2021 No.17214823 >>17214803 I see that's his early dialogues though and he didn't really take a position but was just highlighting Socrates and his elenchus

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 01:36:14 2021 No.17214849 >>17213611 There's no proof that He exists. Why Him and not Allah or Zeus or whoever the Zoroastrians worshiped?

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 01:38:37 2021 No.17214860 >>17213611 cringe

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 01:39:49 2021 No.17214872 >>17213985 God is very clearly made in the image of man, not the other way around

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 01:39:58 2021 No.17214876 test

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 01:40:51 2021 No.17214879 >>17214036 based, christcucks will ignore though

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 02:35:10 2021 No.17215104 >>17213611 God never gave me shit so he isn't good. It throws out the concept of the Judaic god which is the only one you actually care about so stfu. Your Jew either doesn't exist or is evil.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 03:03:19 2021 No.17215223 >>17213611 Two things: 1. Christianity is platonism for the masses. 2. Something being big and common makes it automatically wrong.

>>	Anonymous Wed Jan 6 03:14:49 2021 No.17215270 >>17213685 But it does depend on God >the universe just is arbitrary

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/lit/ - Literature