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/lit/ - Literature


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17180772 No.17180772 [Reply] [Original]

I c-cant believe it... its cope... its all COPE OH GOD OOAAAAHHIM COOOOOOOOOOOOOPINGGGGGGG UOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>> No.17180802
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17180802

>>17180772
this book is on my list of I'll get to it maybe. is it a meme book?

>> No.17180807

Thinking everything is cope is nihilism cope

>> No.17180811

Wait is this book about how death is horrible and we're all just coping about it? I thought it was gonna be more profound than that

>> No.17180816

>>17180772
>>17180807
>>17180811
Cope

>> No.17180820

>>17180816
cope

>> No.17180822

>>17180816
If you think life is valuable enough that you should be afraid of losing it then you're the one who's coping, using the fear of death to borrow value back into life

>> No.17180828

>>17180807
.......yes?

>> No.17180843

cope is a cope

>> No.17180862

>>17180772
The real cope is that death is a pure end, whereas in reality a most terrible afterlife awaits us all.

>> No.17180871
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>>17180772
This book inspired me to pursue enlightenment and ignore stupid irrelevant activities, I am thankful.

>> No.17180877

>>17180862
there was that funny short story about how in death you remain conscious of everything that happens around you even if you break down into your atoms. So you keep suffering for eternity
mite b cool

>> No.17180881

>>17180871
cope

>> No.17180914

>>17180877
I have read a bunch of occultists who claimed that for the vast majority of people, afterlife consists in an eternity of semi-conscious dreaming where you are always just on the edge of awareness but can't wake up and continue being subject to the dream world. This is contrasted with the few strong spirits who become gods after death.
I've found it pretty convincing desu.

>> No.17180932

Wasn't it Plato that said philosophy is preparation for death?
Author seems to be almost 2.5k years behind

>> No.17181033

>>17180822
Based Heideggerian

>> No.17181129

>>17180802
It's meme worthy. I could see it becoming a guenon type thing here. It's marginally more elaborate copeposting. Should be perfect for /lit/

>> No.17181647

>>17180811
It is pretty more profound, yes. It is a study of our relationship to mortality and eternity through the lens of psychology and philosophy, including some pretty good insights on Freud, Kierkegaard, etc. and a perfect theory of mental illnesses. While sounding specific, it's a pretty simple read, and will better the life of anyone.
>>17180871
Same.
>>17180932
Have you even fucking read it?

>> No.17181666

I literally never even think about death, how is it possible for me to cope with something that is a total non-entity for me. disclaimer have not read this book though

>> No.17181700

>>17181666
>I literally never even think about death

That's part of the cope. We construct reality, largely via culture, to not deal with death: to avoid thinking about it entirely. We also cope with death by means of immortalization -- religion, reproduction, etc.

The book, of course, is more in-depth than that, but that's cursory stuff.

>> No.17181729

>>17181700
But I'm not AVOIDING it I simply don't care about it, I can try to force myself to understand why some people have an existential fear of dread but it doesn't work. I understand fully that I will die or that I could die in the next second or tomorrow or I could die horribly painfully or I could die and cease to exist forever and I will die and the impact I had on the world will eventually fade into nothingness but it makes no impact on me at all. I'm perfectly content with dying. This all seems like projection to me.

>> No.17181842

>>17180772
>reduces everything down to nihilistic freudian psychoanalysis
>everything is a cope bro u cant know nuffin

wow... what a genius...

>> No.17182105

>>17180811
Pretty much, but the author is a Anti-US Liberal hack that thinks EUROPE bad, MINORITY GOOD

Everything is a cope, but that won't significantly impact anything in your life

>> No.17182808
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>>17180802
If any section interests you I could post screenshots.

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17182874

Sanefag from post above ,I am going to post some screenshots of segments I found interesting.

>> No.17182879

>>17181700
So OP is another episode of "I'm telling you what you are REALLY thinking". Got it. Will avoid.

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>> No.17182970

>>17182879
In my country there's a saying that goes: "There's no one easier to fool than someone who believes is infallible"

>> No.17182988

>>17181700
what if its not about death

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>> No.17183008

>>17182970
I agree, pretending to reduce people's thoughts to a extremely limited (and still vague) framework, accusing everything else of being false consciousness ultimately reduced to the same, is quite stupid.

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>> No.17183097

>>17183008
My friend, I did not say that I'm agreeing with the author's theses. I Am afraid that I must ask: have you read the book in its entirety ?

Books, I believe are nothing more than the exteriorization of the authors inner machinations, and humans atm do not have the "ultimate truth of existence " , so of course each persons attempts to explain a chaotic reallity are going to be imperfect .

Yet I believe he comes up with some interesting ideas and concepts throughout the book, he definitely is a person with quite a bit of cultural capital.

Let's just say that... Every person in existence believes that the world MUST adjust to their prejudices ...

So maybe Ernest Becker is coping , or maybe YOU are ... Psycoanalysis is quite an interesting subject .... but I know people hate it for some reason and honestly I see this work more as a philosophical essay . he backs his claims with a bunch of german idealists quotes, etc.. so maybe try seeing it under that light...


Also, I recommend you read Eric Fromm and Victor Frankl as far as philosopher/psychologists go, I also believe some of their core ideas can be used on a day to day basis, even if you don't find the answer to existence in their texts . They also have interviews on YouTube and so on ...

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>> No.17183276

>>17181666
The joys of being young again...

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>> No.17183302

>>17180807
Based. You are a creature driven by will to power. Creativity is your happiness, and affirmation of the eternal recurrence

>> No.17183306

this book sounds gay. he should’ve just read heidegger

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>> No.17183361

>>17183314
Screenshot samefag here, if y'all want any more , let me know, I would continue but I'm posting from a first generation IPad and the process is painstakingly slow so I'm done for the moment unless someone shows some interest. At least now the thread has some primary sources as opposed to zingy one liners as a way of finding the actual worth of the book lol

I personally see psychoanalysis as a branch of continental philosophy so...

>> No.17183378

>>17182988
As far as universal constants go, entropy/death is high up there

>> No.17183381

What's wrong with coping though? If you're having a problem, and your friend tells you "Don't do that man, that's just coping," they're not your friend.

>> No.17183414
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17183414

Just bought it.
How jewy is it?

>> No.17183421

>>17183381
Coping, according to Ernest Becker , is essential for humans . It's not a bad or a good thing, it's just a thing that happens: kind of like death, which is a morally neutral universal process.

As a matter of fact, the book does not offer an easily identifiable form of liberation from this process , but argues for a "will to power" , or a creative form of utilizing this 'primal coping' (my term not his )

>> No.17183434

>>17183414
after presenting his thesis becker became a christian in the tradition of Kierkegaard

>> No.17183442

>>17183414
Depends on how far you delusions of persecution go/ or how frequently ypu visit /pol. lol

But seriously though , the author literally critiques the likes of Freud, Jung, etc... so I would say at the very least is an amusing , easily digestable read and shouldn't take you more than a week (maybe less) to finish .

>> No.17183445

>>17183421
Right, that makes sense. You cope with mortality by living well. But then I don't see the point of the discussion.

>> No.17183516

>>17183445
A first point of discussion could be about what does "living well" imply , no?

I believe the consequences of asserting that everything is a cope are huge, as a matter of fact it directly goes against what our ancestors KNEW (because they didn't believe it, they KNEW the cosmos had an order and inmortality in one way or another was possible) up to the second half of the 20th century .

Its kind of like saying : "Well I already know that the categorical imperative means I should not do unto others what I would not want done in exactly the same way to me , so why bother reading Kant?"

But again I can't convince you to read something you don't want to read lol .

>> No.17183548

>>17183445
I don't believe you know how radically different that vision is from the global philosophical and scientifical and religious paradigm that reigned supreme up until the second half of the 20th century . I also don't believe you know what repercussions would arise if everyone "woke up from the matrix" so to speak.

>> No.17183930

>>17183302
COPE

>> No.17183982

Does anyone know of any good human psychology books that aren not written by psychologists?

>> No.17184028

>>17181729
You're just a brainlet that can't really comprehend nothingness to the point of fear. Keep coping.

>> No.17184074
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>>17180862
Afterlife is a spook

>> No.17184099

>>17180914
that awareness is death and life a dream.

>> No.17184500

>>17184028
kek and you're a scurred little bitch coping with the fact that not everyone gets worked up over shit they can't control like you do

>> No.17184720

>>17184500
It's not "shit they can't control." Putting it that way assumes simple everyday thinking. It's the end of everything.

>> No.17184740

>>17184720
>It's the end of everything
So? Is your life really that meaningful that it needs to go on forever, do you even want it to go on forever? What is so bad about just living the life you get, why do you need more? Will more improve anything? Is a shorter life less meaningful than a longer one? Why? Why do you even need meaning in the first place? And if you don't need meaning what is the virtue or point in not dying? You're calling me a brainlet when you are tormented by completely irrational fears.

>> No.17184747

>>17184740
There is no meaning with death. Everything is erased. Whatever you do is pointless. Absolute annihilation is final.

>> No.17184757

>>17184747
And? I disagree but I mean even if you are right and everything is meaningless so fucking what?

>> No.17184771

>>17182874
A N A L I T Y

>> No.17184780

>>17184757
So it's torture. You strive to find meaning in life only to be whacked by death in the end.

>> No.17184787
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17184787

>>17180811
it explains almost everything

>> No.17184821

>>17184780
Stop striving to find "meaning" then. You are a conscious being experiencing your life and that alone makes it "meaningful" to you. You think life is so horrible because you want something that doesn't exist and something that you probably can't even define. Seek different things like beauty, happiness, family, etc. Find enjoyment in your life before you lose it, and the fact that you wont be able to find enjoyment in it in the future (because you will be dead) doesn't in any way negate the present that you are living right now.

>> No.17184835

>>17184821
How does it not negate it though? This is temporary. When I die, it will be irrelevant whether I lived a "good" or "bad" life. There is no world after I die.

>> No.17184839
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17184839

>>17184028
>death is nothing
>in constant anxiety over literally nothing
>doesn't even enjoy life while it lasts

E-everyone else is coping r-right? Stop projecting. I mean just imagine there was no death at all, wouldn't you actually want the option of dying instead of being forced to live life as someone who is to scared to actually face and experience reality while they are able to?

>> No.17184851

>>17184839
>wouldn't you actually want the option of dying instead of being forced to live life as someone who is to scared to actually face and experience reality while they are able to?
This is an absolutely moronic question considering everything we fear in life stems from the fear of death. You didn't even read Becker.

>> No.17184881

>>17184835
That is a complete non sequitur, it is an emotional argument. That's like saying because I got amnesia and forgot my past I never lived through the past in the first place. The future can't change the past, the past has nothing to do with the future. If you really think what you are experiencing in the present is somehow changed by what will happen in the future go ahead and kill yourself and end your tortuous quest for so-called meaning.

>> No.17184920

Have read this book 3 times FYI

>> No.17184927

>>17184881
>That is a complete non sequitur, it is an emotional argument.
Irrelevant. Yours is an emotional argument as well.

>That's like saying because I got amnesia and forgot my past I never lived through the past in the first place.
There is no "past" and "future." That's the illusion we experience. All is one, and the one is nothingness, hence why life is irrelevant in the face of eternity. It's a small, temporal staple.

>The future can't change the past, the past has nothing to do with the future. If you really think what you are experiencing in the present is somehow changed by what will happen in the future go ahead and kill yourself and end your tortuous quest for so-called meaning.
Again, future and past don't exist outside of our experience. Killing yourself is not an easy task when we're programmed to live.

>> No.17184944

>>17184927
>Irrelevant
So you admit it is a non sequitur and your argument is irrational?
>Yours is an emotional argument as well.
It really isn't though
>There is no "past" and "future."
SO HOW DOES THE FACT THAT YOU WILL ONE DAY NOT EXIST CHANGE WHAT YOU ARE EXPERIENCING NOW

>> No.17184965

>>17184851
I don't need to read Becker to know you're a faggot. Everything in life fades with enough time, joy, sorrow, people you love, hate, the person you are today, etc. If you dwell in the future you will only find death to whatever you surround yourself with now, and if you dwell in the past you will only find things that are now dead to you. Otherwise they're in the present, which is where your attention is when you're not suffering from anxiety and projecting it onto the universe instead of dealing with your own insecurity. Is your identity so narrow that it assumes the person you were as a child is the same person you are now? That person has died and become afraid of life, but you have the choice to become a person who accepts life. How is being content with life a cope? Why would you not want to even consider being happy, are you afraid of not being your current cheerful self for eternity? You're so resistant to change that you project your personal insecurities onto everyone else as some objective truth that exists for every subjective reality we experience, somehow. Believe in whatever helps you sleep at night I guess, but you're still a little bitch.

>> No.17184976

>>17184944
Your argument is "hurr live because present good." Hardly a logical one.

>SO HOW DOES THE FACT THAT YOU WILL ONE DAY NOT EXIST CHANGE WHAT YOU ARE EXPERIENCING NOW
Because once you are dead you will no longer experience anything and the world will be gone (for you). Forever. FOREVER.

>> No.17184998

>>17184965
Holy cope. This is probably the most coping anyone has done in this thread so far.

>Believe in whatever helps you sleep at night I guess, but you're still a little bitch.
That is what YOU do though, lmao. Becker addresses this. Nobody "believes" him or any pessimist because it helps them, quite the opposite actually. It's a hard pill to swallow. Your whole argument is to just ignore the fact that this all means fuck all and to feel good in the moment. Pathetic. You're the coward.

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>>17184976
>Because once you are dead you will no longer experience anything and the world will be gone (for you). Forever. FOREVER.
jesus christ you just keep saying the same shit over and over again like I didn't read it the first 500 times and like I didn't explain already why it is irrational. That's it. You don't care about whether life is actually "meaningful" or not, you don't care about the truth at all, you are a purely emotional being. You just want to wallow in your own self pity, you are what we call a faggot. Nihilism is actually comforting for you.

>> No.17185021

>>17184787
What a retarded quote. It is precisely meaninglessness in the face of death that leads humans to a selfish, “YOLO” mentality. With that worldview everything except the maximization of pleasure and comfort and the minimization of suffering and discomfort is pointless. This leads to selfish, lazy cowards, rather than all the higher human virtues.
Stupid smug intellectual.

>> No.17185026

>>17185007
Nihilism is not a comfort. It is pure torture. I wish the Christian God existed every single day.

>> No.17185049

>>17185026
Ok nigger. This is a well documented psychological phenomenon, you enjoy suffering because it is a constant whereas happiness is fleeting or whatever they say. Stop pretending you are some arbiter of truth when you literally admitted your argument was emotional a few posts ago.

>> No.17185061

>>17184787
>>17185021
>Ernest Becker was born in Springfield, Massachusetts, to Jewish immigrant parents.
Oh, nevermind what I said. Every fucking time.

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17185094

>>17180822
...

>> No.17185214

>>17184998
Where do you get the idea that I'm denying death? I'm accepting death, and in turn life, and pointing out how you're too much of a massive semengurgling micropenis owning turbovirgin to consider that people can actually live without cowering in fear over both life and death. You can't accept life without accepting death, and you can't fear death without fearing life (protip: life implies death). I will die, but when I'm dead I won't be crying like a bitch, I just won't be at all, for you it must be a huge improvement so I don't know why you're complaining. LITERALLY WHAT ELSE IS THERE TO DO THAN FEEL CONTENT IN THE PRESENT IF ACCORDING TO YOUR PHILOSOPHY NOTHING OUTSIDE OF THE PRESENT MATTERS BECAUSE DEATH ERASES ALL ACCOMPLISHMENTS AND PURSUITS? WOULD YOU RATHER BE MISERABLE INSTEAD? I'm not saying go full hedonist you momgoloid, Since I have to spell it out for you I'm saying stop spending your time worrying about what you have no control of, and actually focus on the experiences you encounter throughout the day without the incessant schizophrenic chattering in your head about things you will never experience (i.e. death, the past, the future).

>> No.17185351

>>17183516
>I believe the consequences of asserting that everything is a cope are huge, as a matter of fact it directly goes against what our ancestors KNEW (because they didn't believe it, they KNEW the cosmos had an order and inmortality in one way or another was possible) up to the second half of the 20th century .
Believed, knew, believed they knew - I don't think the distinction matters in this context, and either way I don't know what was in their minds.
I also don't follow you because their religious beliefs would be coping whether or not they believed it or knew it. What difference would it make, like how would the way you live your life change if you accepted you were subconsciously avoiding the reality of your inevitable death? It seems like we have to do that, or rather, there's no point in not doing that.

>> No.17185415

>>17185049
>This is a well documented psychological phenomenon, you enjoy suffering because it is a constant whereas happiness is fleeting or whatever they say.
Wow, you're an actual retard.

>>17185214
I have a good job and a decent life in the first world. I am "living in the present" as best as I can. It doesn't take away from anything that Becker says though. The terrifying thoughts don't go away either.

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17185483

>>17181666
>I literally never even think about death
Kek, read The Last Messiah:
>Isolation ... a fully arbitrary dismissal from consciousness of all disturbing and destructive thought and feeling. (Engström: “One should not think, it is just confusing.”) A perfect and almost brutalising variant is found among certain physicians, who for self-protection will only see the technical aspect of their profession. It can also decay to pure hooliganism, as among petty thugs and medical students, where any sensitivity to the tragic side of life is eradicated by violent means (football played with cadaver heads, and so on.)

>In everyday interaction, isolation is manifested in a general code of mutual silence: primarily toward children, so these are not at once scared senseless by the life they have just begun, but retain their illusions until they can afford to lose them. In return, children are not to bother the adults with untimely reminders of sex, toilet, or death. Among adults there are the rules of ‘tact,’ the mechanism being openly displayed when a man who weeps on the street is removed with police assistance.

>> No.17185517

>>17183097
>Also, I recommend you read Eric Fromm and Victor Frankl as far as philosopher/psychologists go, I also believe some of their core ideas can be used on a day to day basis,
Not him but tell me the exact books to start with and I'll order them right now. I am obsessed with Becker now. Moved on to Cioran and Zapffe just because they says there's no meaning, but I'm more interested in the psychology side

>> No.17185538

>>17183302
>You are a creature driven by
biological forces
> will to power.
a cope fabricated out of thin air
> Creativity is your happiness,
immortality project (which will fail (ignorance of this is our vital lie))
> and affirmation of the eternal ..
cope
>..recurrence
schizocope

>> No.17185555

>why yes, I claim to be an expert on something I've never experienced
>yeah they actually pay money to listen to my bullshit too
>yeah I can't believe it either

>> No.17185557

>>17185483
based zapffe

>> No.17185607

>>17183445
>You cope with mortality by living well. But then I don't see the point of the discussion.
There's a strong appeal to the idea: if you have failed on some way (failed to reproduce, failed at creative success, failed at popularity, ) you can logically free yourself from the guilt that might otherwise haunt your life until the end. All of these things are immortality projects, which will not grant you immortality. You will be forgotten.
The second part is even higher utility: don't waterboy to achieve immortality through dedication to an idea, ideology, or political force. Like all the other immortality projects, we are attracted to these as a way to live on through forces bigger than ourselves. More than any other "causa sui" I think the commitment to ideology is the most horrible ways to waste your life. Maybe that's my projection. Becker didn't even hammer on this one too hard, and he's not the first.
So finally the value is in questioning and refining your causa sui (vital lie that this activity brings your life meaning / immortality). Free yourself off the bad ones and pick the ones you want to commit yourself to. They are all arguably equal in uselessness, but being a painter with a lot of friends will probably bring you more joy than joining the black bloc and shooting dope

>> No.17185648

>>17185538
cope

>> No.17185662

>>17185555
based tripfag
also, checked

>> No.17185704

Don't agree with much of Beckers criticism of Freud

>> No.17185705
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17185705

>>17185648

>> No.17185741

>>17185705
you have to go back, ngl

>> No.17185805

>>17185741
I've been here since before you had hair on your balls, "ngl"

>> No.17186017

Does anyone here have a qrd of what he says about schizophrenia and other mental illnesses? Sounds interesting.

>> No.17186060

>>17186017
Becker argues that to contemplate death free of neurosis would fill one with paralyzing anxiety, and nearly infinite terror.

>> No.17186082

What are we to make of a creation in which the routine activity is for organisms to be tearing others apart with teeth of all types — biting, grinding flesh, plant stalks, bones between molars, pushing the pulp greedily down the gullet with delight, incorporating its essence into one's own organization, and then excreting with foul stench and gasses the residue. Everyone reaching out to incorporate others who are edible to him.

The mosquitoes bloating themselves on blood, the maggots, the killerbees attacking with a fury and a demonism, sharks continuing to tear and swallow while their own innards are being torn out — not to mention the daily dismemberment and slaughter in "natural" accidents of all types: an earthquake buries alive 70 thousand bodies in Peru, automobiles make a pyramid heap of over 50 thousand a year in the U.S. alone, a tidal wave washes over a quarter of a million in the Indian Ocean.

Creation is a nightmare spectacular taking place on a planet that has been soaked for hundreds of millions of years in the blood of all its creatures. The soberest conclusion that we could make about what has actually been taking place on the planet for about three billion years is that it is being turned into a vast pit of fertilizer

>> No.17186201

>>17186082
brutal

>> No.17186223

>>17186082
is that a de maistre quote lmao

>> No.17186348

>>17185704
Why?

>> No.17186377

>>17181842
This. Daily reminder that Freud has no factual basis and is unalterable
>inb4 midwit le SCIENCE lover bug man

Not sure how Harold bloom believed anything this hack wrote

>> No.17186426
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17186426

>>17186377
Freud was pretty based and Jung is the real midwit. Becker is right that everything is a cope either way though.

>> No.17186854

>>17181729
His argument to you is that you've repressed your fear in order to live life, and you aren't ever truly facing it, because if you did you would be existentially anxious. He also admits that saying everyone who isn't fearful of death is simply repressing is a bit of an argumentative trump card, but that's why he tries to explain it further.

>> No.17186858
File: 731 KB, 866x579, Snap379.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17186858

>>17180772
WARNING
THIS BOOK WILL KILL YOUR MOTIVATION AND MAKE YOU DEPRESSED
https://youtu.be/QJ_IYQWKW4U

>> No.17187279

>>17184787
I can tell this book is just massive masturbatory mental gymnastics judging by this quote.

>> No.17187290

>>17180772
>Accuse everyone else of coping
>While coping yourself

>> No.17187443

>>17180772
You act as if leaving this world isn't more terrifying/difficult as what will come after it, there is plenty of spiritual work that follows our time on this earth or at least our time on this earth during our current lifespan.

>> No.17188394
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17188394

>>17185517
Man for Himself. An Inquiry into the Psychology of Ethics. - Erich Fromm (ISBN 978-607-16-3762-8)

The Heart of Man - Erich Fromm (ISBN 978-607-16-2842-8)

Ärztliche Seelsorge - Viktor Frankl (ISBN 978-607-16-4900-3)

Ein Psychologe erlebt das Konzentrationslager - Viktor Frankl (ISBN 978-342-33-0142-8)

:)

>> No.17188414

>>17185351
Is self knowledge useful? Also, he is not saying anything the Greeks or German idealists did not say before, but again, I truly believe you would like the book, also check out my post above where I recommend secondary bibliography. :)

And again, I cannot make you read a book you dont want to read, do what you believe is best, it is not a long read at all....

>> No.17188442
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17188442

>>17186017
1.1

>> No.17188445
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17188445

>>17186017
1.2

>> No.17188448
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17188448

>>17186017
1.3

>> No.17188453
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17188453

>>17186017

>> No.17188460
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17188460

>>17186017
1.5

>> No.17188464
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17188464

>>17186017
1.6

>> No.17188466
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17188466

>>17186017
1.7

>> No.17188500

>>17180772
Huh. I'm noticing a lot of my "to read" list from 4 years ago is showing up on this board. Never got to most of those books, though.

>> No.17188511

Is this the new Stirnerposting? What do you call it? Becker posting? Cope posting?

>> No.17188525

>>17188394
danke

>> No.17190075

>>17184787
Yea based on that quote alone I’ll pass. What a faggot.

>> No.17190089

>>17180802
If you’re depressed it’ll make you kill yourself guaranteed 11/10