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/lit/ - Literature

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17165733 No.17165733 [Reply] [Original]

Explicit biblical endorsement of predestination:

>Even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will

>And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose. For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

>No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

>The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

>And all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

>> No.17165766

>You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.

>All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

>And if the Lord had not cut short the days, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, whom he chose, he shortened the days.

>Though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls

TIL if you aren't Calvinist you aren't Christian. God is a Calvinist.

>> No.17166473

bump :)

>> No.17166524

>>17165733
>biblical passage with the word "predestined" in it.
wow must be predestination! anyway calvinist predestination is not even that radical. It is essentially just the logical conclusion of God being omniscient and the fact that humans go to Hell or Heaven.

>> No.17166527
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17166527

Protestantism is unbiblical, the Bible is a Catholic book.

>> No.17166548

Consider the possibility that the fact that you can get very different messages by cherry picking the Bible points to it not actually being divinely inspired

>> No.17166577

>>17166527
>>17166548
Or predestination is simply correct and obvious. You can feel free to disagree but the text is extremely clear and you're only lying to yourselves. You're the one who must live with the cognitive dissonance, not me. The fact that you can't engage in exegesis of those passages but seek to change the subject is quite telling.

>> No.17166630

>>17166577
The Catholic Church teaches predestination, what isn't implied in that verses or anywhere in the Bible is double predestination. Calvinism has been more refuted than the flat earth and however as I said before no Protestantism is Biblical.

>> No.17166667

I don't understand how pseuds have such a hard time with this. Nothing is predestined, we have free will and choice. God, being a super-natural being, is above nature, i.e. above time, and therefore he knows all of the events that will happen, are happening, and have ever happened. He can intervene at any time, any place and for any purpose. He has used the descisions of people to call his predestined plan for adoption through Christ into motion.
And as a result of the Fall of Man, every sinner that has not come to the Father will have to suffer. It's not Predestination it's cause and effect.
What is so hard about this?

>> No.17166682

>>17166630
The concept of double predestination is a false bifurcation of the subject that is irrelevant to the metaphysics used as a spook. It is not spoken of in calvinism so it is not even meaningful in the discussion.

>The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.

So you'll have to rephrase the argument, and I'm not interested in your limp wristed assertion about catholicism. Its not interesting and it is irrelevant because the catholic church is wrong about its interpretation of scripture

>> No.17166686

>>17166630
Every argument I’ve heard against double predestination has been a straw man. Watch this: https://youtu.be/M9db-XPEEWg

>> No.17166702

>>17166667
>What is so hard about this?
the fact that regardless of the extent to what you said appears sensible or is true, none of that is biblical. Its not what God actually said on the subject. For instance, free will is not discussed in the Bible. Predestination, however, is. So yoir reformulation is unnecessary at best and misleading at worst.

There is absolutely no reason not to just listen to what God says on this subject and accept it. That's the point of calvinism.

>> No.17166745

>>17166702
Cope. Calvinism has been definitely debunked by Ken Wilson.

>> No.17166752

>>17166745
Forgot link https://youtu.be/BnOMORGM2Qw

>> No.17166807

>>17166745
This is pretty sad. I'll take this post as a concession. Using the term "debunked" to apply to theology and then autistically asking me to watch some random video online isn't an argument, and it's just... I dunno, pathetic. Anyway maybe we can both just wait for something who is smarter and actually has an argument to come along and make the discussion more interesting. Nice try though, kiddo!

>> No.17166860

>>17166702
>none of that is biblical
>you need to read strictly into what the bible says, without using your God given critical thinking skills to come to conclusions.
Free will is biblical. The fact that God is super-natural is biblical. The fact that he loves and cares for you enough to let you choose your life is biblical (he gave Adam and Eve the choice to trust him and not eat from the tree of the Knowledge of good and evil) He didn't predestine anything. He has used everything that we have done to his advantage and continues to do so today. Sorry brother, the facts don't care about your limited and close minded interpretation of five (5) verses. I hope the Lord finds you in the new year.

>> No.17166871

>>17166860
>He didn't predestine anything.
Well then it sure is weird that the Bible says that huh?

>> No.17166905

>>17166577
why have you got some random guys name and education on 4 chan?

>> No.17166919

>>17166807
Cope. You don’t have the knowledge to even understand that video.

>> No.17166940

>>17166860
>For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son
Who to trust, some patronizing chud on 4chan, or God? Tough choice..

>> No.17166962

>>17166871
It sure is weird that youre trying to die on this hill huh? Chose us (but he chooses us all, only some coose to respond)(not predestined). Using the choices of man to work his will (not predestined). Cause and effect for choosing God (not predestined). Lord made everything, uses even the bad choices for a purpose (not predestined). Cause and effect for not choosing God (not predestined)
So its a nope, nope, nope, nope and therefore... wow I have the choice (not predestined) to call you a fool. And you will take that the way you want (not predestined), and God will use it either way (showing that he uses it regardless.. sounds familiar). Sorry anon.

>> No.17167205

>>17166962
Ok whatever man. Just out of curiosity what denomination are you so I can stay really far away from it? Anyone who is this insistent on mental gymnastics to change the meaning of the Bible is from Satan.

>> No.17167223

>>17166962
None of those "clever" reinterpretations are supported by the text. This isn't an argument. You're just taking the bibles words and then stating something else next to it. Not how exegesis works. Not how reading works, for that matter

>> No.17167238

>>17166473
>>17166577
>>17166682
>>17166702
>>17166807
>>17166871
>>17167223
calvinist bros... can you explain the global decline of all reformed churches??? im so demoralized... maybe our fate is to serve Big Catholic Cock....

>> No.17167255

calvinists literally believe in pagan unchangeable fate and destiny. no wonder they are all dying out

>> No.17167308

>>17167238
Every evangelical Presbyterian church in the US is growing though? Such a point could only be made if you referred to leftist mainlines but what would i care about them? Maybe you should have done some research first.

I'll take this deflection as capitulation to my point too tho

>> No.17167313

>>17167255
apparently the Bible does too. Cope.

>> No.17167321

>>17167313
Ok pagan.

>> No.17167333
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17167333

No.... how could this happen bros?

>> No.17167393

>>17167333
Thats a good thing. The PCUSA is a liberal mainline church you idiot. You've shown an insane degree of misunderstanding in posting something like that.

>> No.17167409

>>17167321
The catechism of the catholic church states you are to refer to protestants as fellow Christians. Go to confession you obstinate sinner. If you even attend church, no doubt everyone there including the priest would be ashamed of your lack of ecumenism. This is why it is so clear you're larping. Actual catholics don't behave like you do. Maybe if you actually practiced youd act more like them.

>> No.17167475

>>17167409
I'm not catholic dumb cracker. Now kiss my boots white dog.

>> No.17167486

>>17167475
Please feel free to tell me which denomination you are that encourages interdenominational slander and race larping psychosis. I think your posts speak for themselves but we should all allow you to bear witness here.

>> No.17167490

>>17167409
Calvinists aren't protestant, sorry kid. Double predestination trannys go into the lake of fire :)

>> No.17167497

>>17167486
lol u mad white boi? mad at the real man?

>> No.17167504

>>17167490
>>17167497
This is the face of catholicism everybody. Remember that.

>> No.17167511

>>17167504
Take your meds.

>> No.17167533

>>17167511
I'll pray for you

>> No.17167559

c*Lvinist subhumans , how does this make you feel?

You could have a completely homogenous community of middle class c*Lvinists. A nice town with almost no crime, an all round good community. However because of the weakness of the c*Lvinist all it would take to destroy this community is one PAPIST bull?

Just imagine, it's a nice sunny Sunday afternoon, imagine the bustle of this 100% c*Lvinist town until suddenly a couple of PAPIST bulls walk up. Women would feel more attraction to these superior, strong bulls infinitely more than their pathetic c*Lvinist husbands. Every woman would be begging, grovelling to be impregnated by these overlords, the new kings of the town who earned this position with nothing but their superior presence. And these bulls wouldn't stop until every girl was carrying their children, the c*Lvinist women's original children would probably be neglected. Who the fuck would want to raise these inferior children? They are only going to turn out like their fathers.

The Men? The men would flee after realizing how futile their attempts at winning back their wives attraction would be. They would flee to Holland where they will try to win over FAS looking ugly Dutch girls because they are the only things disgusting and lonely enough to accept them. Many would probably be rejected after the Dutch hear of their shameful and dishonorable display, even they probably would have killed themselves to avoid the shame.

Back home in the once nice town, every woman will be raising their PAPIST children and will be queuing up for their second or maybe even third pregnancy. They wont stop until they hit menopause, because they know deep down that their purpose is to populate the world with superior PAPIST bulls who will then move on to destroy other towns. This is REAL colonization. You can't take over a place without winning the attraction or respect of the people, that method will always collapse

>> No.17167585

>>17167559
>catholic is a /pol/tard
Whoa this is epic as f*ck

>> No.17167586

>>17166473
Yo didn't this dude chop his dick off?

>> No.17167627

>>17167205
I come to these conclusions by reading God's word, various Christian theology from the Catholic, Orthodox traditions, and the rational mind that the Lord has blessed me with.
The church that I attend is the Christian and Missionary Alliance, though it is far from being satanic in any sense. I wish you the best in your relationship with God, anon.

>>17167205
>Rational thought=mental gymanstics.
>my interpretation of the Word is better than yours because well, you obviously cannot read haha goteem.
Anon, I will conceed this to you if you can explain one thing to me. If "destiny" is really as big of a thing as you're making it out to be then how do you explain your OWN free will? You have the choice to do ANYTHING YOU WANT, if this were not the case then why is everything the way it is? Why did the fall happen? If it were predestined, then why would God make robots meant to screw him over like that? What is love from a robot? I asked many questions but I only want an answer to the first.
God loves us, and he made us to love him, but true love requires a choice (otherwise it is not love, but an order). Destiny goes against the very nature of God and what he has done for us. The closest thing to destiny is God's will is to be with us, (with which he plays with the cards he's dealt, with no issues as he is God) and the unfortunate truth that sinners who don't choose him are doomed to eternal damnation, but that is not destiny. That is God's will to be done and Cause and Effect.

>> No.17167691

>>17167627
>Anon, I will conceed this to you if you can explain one thing to me. If "destiny" is really as big of a thing as you're making it out to be then how do you explain your OWN free will? You have the choice to do ANYTHING YOU WANT, if this were not the case then why is everything the way it is? Why did the fall happen?
Are you actually familiar with the calvinist position AT ALL? I wouldn't even know how to respond to this because you're arguing with a strawman. Even a cursory reading of the westminster would clear up all of your questions here. Why don't you just read it?

>> No.17167704

>>17167627
>>Rational thought=mental gymanstics.
Rational thought does not include postmodern textual exegesis to pretend words don't hold the meanings they hold. Calling "reading a text but ignoring the central word and the definition of that word in favor of entirely different concepts" rational thought makes a mockery of the concept.

>> No.17167805

>>17167627
Hi. Nothing you posted here bears any relation to Calvinist thought or any of the creeds associated with it. Just thought you might want to know.

>> No.17168770

>>17167533
Alright didn't you just say in the George Floyd thread that you're not a Christian or are there multiple people namefagging under this name?

>> No.17168807

explicit biblical endorsement of universal salvation:

>And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.

>He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

>For God has consigned all to disobedience, that he may have mercy on all.

>Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.

>For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

>And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

>For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.

>And through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross.

>> No.17168971

>>17166682
God has made the wicked but not wickedness inside him. God didn't make the wicked for being wicked but to be saved.
>Luke 5:32
>I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.
God extracts goodness from evil but that doesn't mean God created evil for making goodness out of it. One thing is allowing wickedness and other very different positively creating wickedness.
>1 Timothy 2:4
>who (God) wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
Enough. If he wanted all people to be saved, he wouldn't make people actively sinners literally born for damnation.

>> No.17169286
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17169286

>PROTESTRANNIE= God literally makes you wicked !1!!!1!!
>i-i can't choose no free will!!!
Based James BTFOing weird heretics: