Do you agree with Houellebecq here? Is it really impossible and pointless to try and stop the liberalization of values?

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Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:13:59 2020 No.17121003 [Reply] [Original]

Do you agree with Houellebecq here? Is it really impossible and pointless to try and stop the liberalization of values?

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:16:18 2020 No.17121014

>>17121003
Yeah actually, that's always exactly what I thought. The only way to retain values is to completely abandon our naturally hedonistic human bodies and transport our consciousness to superior cybernetic bodies. As long as we remain in the human body, we will diverge into degeneracy eventually every single time. The human body is animalistic and deeply incompatible with civilization.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:17:16 2020 No.17121020 >>17121003 I've reached the same conclusion, it's really casual determinism at work. Surf the Kali Yuga

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:20:02 2020 No.17121030 does he have a blog?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:21:37 2020 No.17121038 >>17121030 yeah he's very active on lookism forums

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:22:06 2020 No.17121043

>>17121003
>Do you agree with Houellebecq here?
I do but I also don’t. On one hand, there’s a near total alignment with what the institutions and the masses want that makes it feel like unstoppable runaway train that will have to derail to be stopped. There are many 20th century authors who wrote on this topic, basically moving from concern over how to react to how to cope. The sentiment was that basically nothing can be done and if it can, will just end in disaster (see: both world wars). On the other hand, it’s that kind of thinking that created the conditions which allowed this to happen in the first place. He’s wrong that concession is necessarily departing from being a reactionary too.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:23:24 2020 No.17121055 >>17121003 This is the thing that sometimes draws me toward religion. In this flux, there's no correction, no hope, nothing to stand upon or even hold onto.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:23:34 2020 No.17121057 >>17121014 >The only way to retain values is to completely abandon our naturally hedonistic human bodies and transport our consciousness to superior cybernetic bodies You absolute fucking fool. This IS the liberal viewpoint.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:23:34 2020 No.17121058 >>17121003 Absolutely, you will hurt yourself from your desire of longing to change the system. History and humanity have no end goal so let it hit the wall at light speed. While we can sit back and witness the shitshow like good cynic defeatists.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:24:09 2020 No.17121060 >>17121003 Yes, a single individual wouldn't be capable of doing it, and conservatives as a group don't conserve shit. The liberalization of values becomes ultimately inevitable.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:25:56 2020 No.17121071

>>17121057
Yes, and? Everyone that is against liberalism is coping. The retvrn to tradition LARPfags are coping the hardest. Their oh-so-great tradition is being raped by niggers every single day, and if by pure chance it ever came back (as a mere holograph, a simulation of tradition, mind you), it would get raped twice as hard by the ultimate nigger: the human being.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:27:02 2020 No.17121077 >>17121071 Then that’s not what you “always thought”. More like that’s who you’ve always been - the liberal. So wtf are you talking about?

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:29:43 2020 No.17121082

>>17121055
I have to agree. Heidegger was probably spot on when he said only a God can save us. There’s really no rhyme or reason to anything developing in mass culture right now (punk, transgenderism, social distancing etc). It’s all just a blob of meaninglessness to me

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:31:06 2020 No.17121086

>>17121077
I'm not a liberal because I like it, rather because I see no other choice and everything else is evidently cope. It is of utmost importance that we accelerate technology as much as we can before liberalism finally reaches his final form and we go back to our animal selves. I think this is our metaphysical goal, the next step of evolution is abandoning the human altogether.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:48:46 2020 No.17121155

>>17121003
>"what makes me exceptional is that I'm blackpilled"
Not impressed desu. Is radical political change possible? Yes. Is it likely? Probably not. Will it happen? That remains to be seen. All you can do is act in a manner you consider proper and honourable. That's the point of Spengler's discussion of the "lost legionary".
>>17121014
>The only way to retain values is to completely abandon our naturally hedonistic human bodies and transport our consciousness to superior cybernetic bodies.
What would be transferred, if anything at all, would not be "our" consciousness in the slightest. You just want to kill off all of humanity and replace them with some gay robots. That's not only cringe, but also boring and lame. If you want to transcend the human form so much, then become an arahant or something.
>>17121071
>>17121086
What the fuck happened to you bro, are you some sort of schizo? You want to defend civilisation and normalcy, so you support insane "accelerationist" transhumanist bullshit in order to reduce humanity to the animal condition (aka nothing that can be called "human"). How the fuck did you go from point A to point B here? Jesus. Read the Traditionalist school, you need it.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:50:10 2020 No.17121162

>>17121003
Society functions on unwritten rules, while it seems that the family unit is dying, its actually taboo to speak of a healthy family unit due to inclusiveness. Family units appear secondary, and further more have always been secondary but when not under socioeconomic stress (poor people don't have as much room to maneuver in relationships) were governed by shame which caused the family unit ideal to be perpetuated. A healthy family unit is becoming rarer and thereby in reality something valuable but is intrinsically tied to socioeconomic standards limiting how many people ultimately create a unit and are 1) able to self advertise an ideal unit and 2) will be accepted by the larger social audience who are reminded of their failures as possible mates + value creators + achieving social ideals
Tl;dr: Houellebecq is just exploitative cashing in on modern fear mongering because re outlining the unsexiness of lower and lower middle class life doesn't sell, there's is no real change happening beyond new coping mechanism, I'm an incel/lgbtq/(lazy, repressed & dumb) etc. - a lack of material value is obfuscated With an extremely mild psychosis

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 09:55:46 2020 No.17121185

>>17121155
>All you can do is act in a manner you consider proper and honourable. That's the point of Spengler's discussion of the "lost legionary".
I.e LARP.
>What would be transferred, if anything at all, would not be "our" consciousness in the slightest.
Good.
>You just want to kill off all of humanity and replace them with some gay robots.
Yes. Stop being attached to this gay nature robot. Let's jump in into better robots.
>That's not only cringe, but also boring and lame.
It's far from boring, it would be a completely new reality.
>so you support insane "accelerationist" transhumanist bullshit in order to reduce humanity to the animal condition
I don't think you're getting my point, liberalism is inevitable. What should be accelerated is technology so we leave the human body ASAP before liberalism turns us into animals again. I'm not supporting liberalism, I'm saying there's no other choice. It's humanity that will turn itself into animals, because we ARE animals. This is why I hate tradfags. The human is nothing special. Your tradition is a LARP and a cope. Humans don't care about tradition, they want to shit and fuck. Otherwise we wouldn't have gotten to this point.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 10:02:34 2020 No.17121213 >>17121003 Hitler disagreed slightly.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 10:10:40 2020 No.17121254

>>17121185
>I.e LARP.
Speak for yourself.
>Good.
Misanthropic crybaby.
>Yes. Stop being attached to this gay nature robot. Let's jump in into better robots.
Anon, I don't know how to break this to you, but unless you are taking some spiritual position, YOU are that gay nature robot. Your psychology is not divorced from your body - on the contrary, the two are deeply united. "Transferring your consciousness to a robot body" would be equivalent to committing suicide.
>It's far from boring, it would be a completely new reality.
A reality that does not include you in the slightest.
>I don't think you're getting my point, liberalism is inevitable.
It's probably gonna collapse in the next 50 years, so I disagree. If its collapse will lead to an improvement or a decline is another question.
>What should be accelerated is technology so we leave the human body ASAP before liberalism turns us into animals again.
Even if you perceive this as some stupid extinction-animality dichotomy, extinction is still "worse", broadly speaking.
>It's humanity that will turn itself into animals, because we ARE animals. This is why I hate tradfags. The human is nothing special. Your tradition is a LARP and a cope. Humans don't care about tradition, they want to shit and fuck. Otherwise we wouldn't have gotten to this point.
This is exactly why I told you to read the Traditionalist school anon. The human being is a composite being - it is made up of a biological animal element that generates every impulse related to survival, but it is also made up of a spiritual element that inspires it to pursue spiritual transcendence, higher values, civilisation, heroism, sacrifice, etc. - all of those things which are of no concern to a mere animal. The reason things have gotten this bad today is not because humans have been "larping animals" for all of human history - it is because in the past few centuries the highest human horizon - tradition - has been lopped off. Without that dimension, it is obvious that humanity will slowly slip into animality.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 10:28:54 2020 No.17121360

"Transferring your consciousness to a robot body" would be equivalent to committing suicide.
We're already half-men half-robots. The world is too complex to survive without a bunch of cold frameworks helping you out. Robot arms and brain chips are already here in the shape of water/food supply lines; infrastructure that is as vital to you as your beating heart. Removal of the robot brain that enables this infrastructure to function is equal to removing your lungs to liberate you from oxygen dependency

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 10:31:37 2020 No.17121382

>>17121254
>but it is also made up of a spiritual element that inspires it to pursue spiritual transcendence, higher values, civilisation, heroism, sacrifice, etc. - all of those things which are of no concern to a mere animal.
>The reason things have gotten this bad today is not because humans have been "larping animals" for all of human history - it is because in the past few centuries the highest human horizon - tradition - has been lopped off. Without that dimension, it is obvious that humanity will slowly slip into animality.
You literally refuted yourself right there. This spiritual element is complete made up bs, or straight up useless, if tradition was so easily discarded. Where is that spiritual element now? Why are we degenerating? This is where you usually bring up Jews or something to explain why that spirit was "corrupted", basically a giga-cope, a complete cop out. You seem like a not completely braindead /pol/tard so I'd like to know why exactly this spirit is gone (if we ever had it), or how we even abandoned tradition at all if this spirit, according to you innate to us human beings, inspires us to do something that we literally destroyed ourselves.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 10:32:51 2020 No.17121388 >>17121382 Whoops, I meant NOT a /pol/tard. You seem to be arguing in good faith unlike them, so I'm interested in your take.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 10:39:18 2020 No.17121439

>>17121382
>why exactly this spirit is gone (if we ever had it), or how we even abandoned tradition at all if this spirit, according to you innate to us human beings, inspires us to do something that we literally destroyed ourselves.
People are separated from religion. We've had our evolutionary trajectory shaped by people who believed that they'd go to hell if they sinned and that they would be rewarded if they behaved. The "truth" of this is irrelevant, this is how the modern man was made. Rejecting these models in favor of less harsh selection pressures will necessarily lead to lower morale and people with higher time preference

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 10:49:02 2020 No.17121491

>>17121003
If you think you can sway the view of hundreds of millions of people and stop the momentum of a movement which has been building up inertia for far more your than you have been alive, have at it and good luck. Actually trying to stop or alter society by force is a messy business and tends not to go so well.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 11:07:59 2020 No.17121608
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>>17121360
Pseud take.
>You literally refuted yourself right there. This spiritual element is complete made up bs, or straight up useless, if tradition was so easily discarded.
It wasn't "easily discarded", this is a total historical anomaly.
>Where is that spiritual element now?
It's still here. Even most leftists use the spiritual principle to negate spiritual values - it's the ideals of equality, socialism etc. that guide their actions in many cases, rather than the material aspiration for homogeneity and animal comfort.
>Why are we degenerating?
I just told you - because the horizons of humanity have been forcibly contracted. There are still plenty of people who are living according to spiritual principles.
>This is where you usually bring up Jews or something to explain why that spirit was "corrupted", basically a giga-cope, a complete cop out.
The Jews could hardly accomplish a task this colossal, but it's difficult to agree on one specific narrative on how we arrived here. Personally, I think we see a fall already with the introduction of Christianity, which is an alien religion unsuitable for the European spirit. From there on, you see the gradual conflicts between the Church and State, the Renaissance, Enlightenment etc. leading up to revolutionary ideologies and coarsely materialist worldviews.
>You seem like a not completely braindead /pol/tard so I'd like to know why exactly this spirit is gone (if we ever had it)
It's not gone, it's still here, but it's either inactive or self-denying. The issue we are dealing here is the unity or disunity of the sacred and profane. The more united the two are, the more spiritual the people and the more traditional things are. The Romans served extra portions during celebrations because they believed that their brothers - the gods - would feast alongside them. As this transcendental confidence disappears, so does spiritual awareness, leading to a self-perpetuating cycle until the end of the civilisation and the beginning of the next one. Some people still retain spiritual awareness and strength even in times of decline, but you'd need to achieve Nirvana or something equivalent to that in order to have those qualifications.
>or how we even abandoned tradition at all if this spirit, according to you innate to us human beings, inspires us to do something that we literally destroyed ourselves.
It's not up to me to give you the entire history of this, as I myself do not have all of the answers. It's not hard to abandon spirit. As I said earlier, the human body is a composite - the spirit is the higher and more inaccessible aspect. In a noble and preserved people, it is present and luminous. In degenerate people or degenerate times, it requires a lot of effort to discover. When spirit-denying forces seize control of power, this factor, combined with a general degenerated climate, leads to what we have now. Ruling caste values are important. Pic rel.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 11:09:01 2020 No.17121612 >>17121382 Forgot to tag you for the rest of this post: >>17121608

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 11:26:44 2020 No.17121717 >>17121608 Not a pseud take. Your understanding of technology is too shallow if you believe it's only there if it's a literal chip in your brain. This shallow understanding is also what will allow technology to steamroll you, from inside and outside.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 11:36:54 2020 No.17121769

>>17121717
For a guy so dumb you really are smug, you know that, right? You do realise that by your own logic, your house is transhumanist and being homeless equals automatic suicide? What about ants, anon - is the anthill a part of the bodies of ants? Are all of the ants and the anthill together just one being, maybe? You know what, now that we're on this line of thinking - maybe ALL HUMANS are just one single being and the technoindustrial system that functions as our environment is actually really just another organ of this super-organism? Whoaa... so deep... soooo smart... incredibly wise, anon!!!
Retard.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 11:57:21 2020 No.17121902

>>17121769
>your house is transhumanist and being homeless equals automatic suicide?
I'm talking about being able to build a house. Carrying these very technological maneuvers in your mind is the same as cybernetically augmenting yourself. How are you ever going to fight technological overreach if you don't get this basic idea? Do you think we engage with technology, build it and then it's simply out there, separated from us?
>is the anthill a part of the bodies of ants?
anthills are extended phenotypes

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 12:08:45 2020 No.17121995

>>17121902
>I'm talking about being able to build a house. Carrying these very technological maneuvers in your mind is the same as cybernetically augmenting yourself.
No, that's not even remotely true, because one is a direct, obvious alteration of the biology you are born with and the other one is an environmental factor that you can interact with. You are probably trying to make some "return to monke" Kaczynski take here, but Kaczynski claimed that the development of technology is problematic - he never claimed that ALL technology is transhumanist. Those are two very distinct claims.
>How are you ever going to fight technological overreach if you don't get this basic idea?
With ease.
>Do you think we engage with technology, build it and then it's simply out there, separated from us?
In biological terms? Yes, absolutely.
>anthills are extended phenotypes
If you are going to namedrop concepts at least have the courtesy to explain them.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 12:27:24 2020 No.17122111

>>17121608
Literally all of this sounds schizophrenic as fuck. I'm sorry. And this is coming from a guy that wants to abandon humanity. Life isn't this interesting (it is, but in other ways). Humans are not that interesting. I simply can't find this mysticism you find in humans. It is much more likely our superiority over other animals was just an accident. A lot of this is just made up from misconceptions of observing our behaviour, a product of its time, a world that wasn't as scientifically advanced. We know better now. I'm sorry but I don't believe I'm this spirit. We're probably not that far from cracking the mystery of consciousness and discovering it was material and not transcendent, like pretty much everything else, making all these mind-body dualism and spiritual nonsense finally irrelevant.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 12:33:01 2020 No.17122145 >>17121003 Well, I think the Iranian Revolution proves that it is possible to turn back the clock on values.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 12:43:04 2020 No.17122221

>>17122111
Everything that is fascinating about humans is essentially "nonhuman", it is divine. This is the myth and meaning of Prometheus - his true punishment isn't being eaten by the eagle, but rather him and Epimetheus degenerating into mere subjects rather than brothers of the gods. You thinking the way you do, are making the same choice as Prometheus - that of identifying with the animal rather than with your divine nature. Ask yourself this seriously - what would an "apex predator" truly look like? What is the ultimate animal, that beast which always survives, always devours and always prevails? Does it really have any "human" qualities? Does it have use for speech, civilisation, idealism, compassion and honour? Does it even have use for verbal thought? You say that we'll "crack the mysteries of consciousness", but the truth is that matter is utterly meaningless, as is anything purely material. What bestows meaning upon matter is necessarily an Other - something that is not matter and is beyond matter, capable of differentiating itself from it and differentiating it from itself. That's the contrast between hierarchy and equality. You say this sounds "schizo", but why does it really? Is this not precisely what I said earlier - that the upper horizons of humanity have been deliberately blocked, damaged by centuries of propaganda, obscurantism and a degenerate climate? Why should modern civilisation be understood as the bizarre and inexplicable stumbling of a needy animal, rather than the failed byproduct of a higher substance? Which is really more likely in the end?
>mind-body dualism
Nothing like that, in fact this is precisely why I told you that your transhumanist ideas are psychotic. The real dualism is between mind+body and spirit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 12:48:29 2020 No.17122258 >>17121003 I haven’t read Houellebecq, how does he define liberalism?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 12:49:52 2020 No.17122269 >>17122258 >liberalism is when I can't get laid and other people can

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 12:54:28 2020 No.17122300

>>17122145

Iran is basically like a DPRK or a USSR. It isn’t going to last in its current form. Its relative stability at the moment is ironically based on how besieged it is. The state has a legitimizing purpose, to defend Iran against hostile foreign powers that would gladly flatten it with nuclear bombs. The more distant that possibility seems, the more likely that there will be internal struggle to democratize and liberalize the state. The DPRK is even seeing small market liberalization increase, probably because it has almost come out the other end of being so insanely besieged that there is a normalcy to it, so the bureaucrats and private interests are feeling like their business interests should be respected right now, because it’s unclear if there is where going to be a tomorrow where the DMZ is dismantled and trade and travel restrictions are loosened.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 13:00:34 2020 No.17122350 >>17122269 I really do feel like most people don’t have a working notion of what it means. I’d suppose this guy does because he is a writer, so he sits around thinking a lot about his beliefs, but I was just curious.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 13:02:49 2020 No.17122370 >>17121003 He's probably right but that doesn't mean you have to abandon all your values, even if it does isolate you a bit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 13:14:33 2020 No.17122455 >>17121003 Simpitic neoliberal apologia

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 13:32:00 2020 No.17122581 >>17122370 Exactly. This is where a lot of conservative thought loses me. Basically it's just people thinking they should have the right to tell others how to behave. Just behave how you want to behave, others need to mind their own values.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 13:46:50 2020 No.17122716

>>17122581
Every system axiomatically asserts its own values. The only reason you think liberalism is different is because you fail to understand that it's just a front for consumerism, so you think liberalism allows "freedom" when it chokes out every alternative and promotes every type of degeneration, so long as it makes the GDP line go up.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 13:48:49 2020 No.17122731

You live for your personal life, and live your ideals through your personal life. Doing that, you can affect people close to you. He’s right about the general movement of society, you can’t affect that, but it shouldn’t matter much to you. “Thy love afar is spite at home.” Live by this.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 14:01:20 2020 No.17122811 >>17122716 I don't believe in "systems" but if it's liberal not to pry into others affairs and tell them how to live their lives then I guess I'm a liberal.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 14:15:19 2020 No.17122889

>>17122811
>I don't believe in "systems" but if it's liberal not to pry into others affairs and tell them how to live their lives then I guess I'm a liberal.
That much was visible already as soon as you said you "don't believe in systems", as if laws, institutions and politics are some neutral and ineffectual forces that are above society.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 14:26:58 2020 No.17122977 >>17121082 >punk That was almost 50 years ago >social distancing Not a pop culture movement. Just a buzzword that describes how you'd be expected to act during any pandemic.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 14:40:01 2020 No.17123061

>>17122889
>That much was visible already as soon as you said you "don't believe in systems", as if laws, institutions and politics are some neutral and ineffectual forces that are above society.
If there has to be a system I think the best is some kind of minarchist system that just keeps order and maintains basic structures that enable people to live their lives, not dictate people their values. If you have basic respect for people you allow them to determine their own values and shape their own lives, as long as they don't abuse that to infringe on others rights.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 14:57:39 2020 No.17123194

>>17123061
>If there has to be a system I think the best is some kind of minarchist system that just keeps order and maintains basic structures that enable people to live their lives, not dictate people their values.
You are already dictating people's lives by enabling and proscribing certain behaviours. Why should a natural killer have to hold back and restrain his talents when he can seize your wealth by force? Because you don't want him to? That's imposing yourself on him. The distinction you are making between "free" and "unfree" forms of government is completely arbitrary, since you are looking at it from your perspective only - the perspective of a being looking for basic comfort and security at all times.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 15:16:50 2020 No.17123345

>>17123194
>You are already dictating people's lives by enabling and proscribing certain behaviours. Why should a natural killer have to hold back and restrain his talents when he can seize your wealth by force? Because you don't want him to? That's imposing yourself on him. The distinction you are making between "free" and "unfree" forms of government is completely arbitrary, since you are looking at it from your perspective only - the perspective of a being looking for basic comfort and security at all times.
I didn't use the word free. But if there is some kind of freedom, I agree it can't be absolute. You can shape your own life as long as you don't hurt others or assert unearned authority over them. We have basic freedoms to live our lives, but that doesn't include things like killing others or raping or stealing. That would be infringing on the wellbeing of others, taking away their life, or possessions.

There is a domain of choices we can make freely, and a domain of other possibilities that have to be sanctioned for the health of society. If someone is going to rob me, I am not sure I can stop him, but I would wish him to be punished for doing that.

The seething of conservatives comes mostly from their inability to tell others what to do, inability to assert dominance. Not telling them not to kill, but other opinions, life choices etc Things to do with traditions and spirituality most of the time.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 15:23:56 2020 No.17123397

>>17123345
>I didn't use the word free. But if there is some kind of freedom, I agree it can't be absolute.
Feudalism can also be justified in these exact terms.
>You can shape your own life as long as you don't hurt others or assert unearned authority over them.
This limitation is arbitrary, as is the distinction you've drawn between one form of harm and another. I consider the authority held by celebrities and corporations to be completely unearned, yet they would be functional in your system.
>We have basic freedoms to live our lives, but that doesn't include things like killing others or raping or stealing.
Why not? You could probably do that better than Jeff Bezos if you are a young man. Why should you give him the advantage? For you, the answer is obviously your temperament, but that's hardly universal justification.
>The seething of conservatives comes mostly from their inability to tell others what to do, inability to assert dominance. Not telling them not to kill, but other opinions, life choices etc Things to do with traditions and spirituality most of the time.
That's because conservatives vainly cling to the deprecated form of classical and national liberalism. They both tried to go along to get along and secure the absolutely necessary common ground for civilisation. Obviously, this means neither goal is achieved and they are going to be eaten up alive by increasingly radical and clannish left wing groups. Good riddance, I say. An order that lacks the moral strength to maintain the zeal of its own supporters - much less control the general public - is doomed to die.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 15:37:27 2020 No.17123514

>>17121003
What is pointless is trying to revert the clock back to where it was. You have to take the principle and find a way to re-assert in a way that even the ancient sources of the tradition were not able to. There have been no perfect assertions in history (only perhaps if you believe in God and the Incarnation of Christ), nor will there ever be, that is just the human condition. Your job is to get as close as possible to your ideal. You should then look at the future with awe and wonder in light of what is yet possible, rather than engage in nihilistic depression about things changing or disappearing. In light of this destruction of values, there is an opening of empty space ready to be filled with something new. There is nobody else who will do it, it is your job to re-assert what is holy for you. You have to do it with the possibility that you die without seeing it come to pass. That is the weight of responsibility, that is if you really do care for it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 15:56:29 2020 No.17123667 The monks have it right. The only way to stop cultural decay is to do absolutely nothing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 15:59:48 2020 No.17123694 >>17121003 Kek left-wing is already on decline and we're seeing a right-wing revival everywhere in the west. Nuclear family is back by 2030.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 15:59:49 2020 No.17123695 >>17123667 Kek

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 16:04:07 2020 No.17123722

>there's nothing we can do
Translation: There's no solution I can think of, but I won't admit this to you so I will frame it in a way where I still appear to have influence on you.

I'm so tired of midwits. Here's a good tip: Stop listening to people who are panicking. Start listening to the people who are smiling about what's happening.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 16:08:52 2020 No.17123754
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>>17121003
Bible books of wisdom say "There is nothing new under the sun".
Proceeds to describe atheists, family destruction, perversion of the sexes, etc, as effects of idolatry:
"changing of kind(sexes), disorder in marriages, adultery, and shameless uncleanness." "corruption, unfaithfulness, tumults, perjury," "For the worshipping of idols not to be named is the beginning, the cause, and the end, of all evil."
So it can all be turned back indeed, we just need to bow the knee to the King instead of worshiping demons.

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 16:12:15 2020 No.17123776

>>17123667
They pray, which does stop the decay, the problem is they are few, monasteries are emptying.
Revolutionaries always go to the monasteries to kill the monks. Weird thing, if they are atheists why would they care? because they obey the devil so they go and kill the most important soldiers of the good guys.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 17:31:32 2020 No.17124367 >>17123514 Amen to that.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 17:53:39 2020 No.17124513 I'm not French so I'm incapable of being a doomer like Houellebecq.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 17:56:12 2020 No.17124535 >>17123694 Imagine actually believing this in the year where 90% of young normies became woke

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 17:58:25 2020 No.17124554

>bro do nothing

Fuck that end of history defeatist bullshit. Fuck capitalist realism and pessimism. Get off your ass and organize if you want change. Make your voice heard. Spread propaganda and subversive art. Get power and use power to influence. Take some sort of action.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 18:18:34 2020 No.17124712 >>17124554 you cant defeat it. you are too immersed in it. you are plugged in the matrix with no way to get out. you are controlled, conditioned, and pacified by the spectacle as are all of us. it surrounds us. if its destroyed so will we all.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 18:26:20 2020 No.17124756 >>17124554 >spread propaganda and subversive art lol the media channels are controlled by the neoliberal capitalists you dimwit

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 18:29:42 2020 No.17124774

>>17124712
>>17124756
What the fuck is this other than nihilism and excuses to be a pussy? We know there are issues. We see there are issues. Everyone knows shit is fucked. We just can't articulate it or have an organization that truly represents our interests. The masses need to wake the fuck up. Take action. Organize. Raise awareness and class consciousness to really see the reason for why things are the way they are. Then the masses organize and exercises their power to demand change or bring it into being. If capitalism cannot provide basic human needs, dignity, and liberation then we must forge a future for ourselves where this can truly occur. The world is in our hands, and we need to make it so if we want it to be. Capitalism is not eternal, we can take the hammer and sickle to it and tear it apart.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 18:31:27 2020 No.17124783 >>17124774 Capitalism does provide those things, quite efficiently. The problem, however, is too many people; and that is one issue that many refuse to address.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 18:31:49 2020 No.17124786 >>17124774 There, with that post you can go to bed tonight believing you've done your part to fix the world.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 18:32:46 2020 No.17124796 >>17124774 ok lenin go organize your local construction workers and get them to read marx theyre more likely to support the fucking trump

Anonymous Sat Dec 26 18:34:27 2020 No.17124808

This is in sharp contrast to what DFW said when he was criticizing Ellis, that the purpose of the novel, at least great ones, that the purpose of great fiction is to critique society and show characters that are "good" survive in a horrible world. He hated irony because he believed there was no point in satirizing society for the sake of humor, because irony has no solutions, I'm sure he would have disagreed with Houllebecq for the same reason.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 18:35:51 2020 No.17124817 >>17121003 Everything Houellebecq says is predetermined by hix physical ugliness

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 18:36:27 2020 No.17124821 >>17124774 Communism is gay as fuck Black Lives Matter Pro-Black Capitalism > Marxism

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 18:36:42 2020 No.17124824 >>17121003 Yes

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 18:41:07 2020 No.17124857 >>17124821 nah stfu

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 18:41:56 2020 No.17124861 >>17124774 If there is a revolution, it won't be gommunist you fucking larper, lol.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 26 18:42:25 2020 No.17124863 >>17124554 >subversive art There is literally nothing subversive anymore. Any "subversive art" gets immediately commodified.

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/lit/ - Literature