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/lit/ - Literature

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17119103 No.17119103 [Reply] [Original]

Post genre fiction that rises to the level of great literature.

Starting with an obvious one.

>> No.17119106

Crime and Punishment

>> No.17119111

>Thesaurus McCarthy
>Great literature
I'm sure you all think Avengers is Great Cinema, too

>> No.17119116
File: 55 KB, 577x382, R_CHAD_Bakker.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17119116

>>17119103
anything by this guy

>> No.17119118

>>17119111
What are your favourite books anon

>> No.17119135

>>17119103
That is not genre fiction. Being set in the old west is not enough to make it a western, it lacks most of the defining tropes and the ones it does have it uses in ways outside of the genre.

>> No.17119142

Certainly Othello. Classic who dunnit

>> No.17119149

>>17119135
Would you say that it is possible for a book to be set in the future, and employ advanced technology, while not being science fiction?

>> No.17119325

>>17119135
>grizzled war veterans trying to relive the glory of youth and combat
>racism against the indigenous
>shootouts
>men trying to live by their own self made code of honor in an uncaring world
>hard drinking
>priests playing hard and fast with theology

just because there's no sentences about a shootout at high noon over a noble woman or being disrespected doesn't mean it's not a western. if it feels like a samurai story with pistols and a desert then it's a western. the tropes are used for setting, the book doesn't use them in ways outside the genre, nor does it say anything about the genre.

>> No.17119358

>>17119325
How do I become a samurai nowadays?asking for a fiend

>> No.17119406

>>17119358
living by a code of honor and being able and willing to defend it, even if it costs your life. also buy a sword and catch yellow fever i guess?

>> No.17119423

>>17119111
can't believe tripsgod wasted his blessing on you

>> No.17119494

>>17119406
A sword is useless nowadays. Buy a gun instead if possible. So... Basically become a cop?

>> No.17119521

>>17119325
I think you should maybe read listen to a lecture on the book while doing the dishes or going for a walk, you can find a bunch on youtube, or read some valid literary crit on the book, you'll learn alot (I'm genuinely not trying to be condescending, they're pretty enjoyable). just because a book uses tropes from an established genre doesn't mean it's genre fiction. Tarkovsky's "Stalker" uses sci-fi tropes but its by no means considered to be in the same genre as star wars.

>> No.17119573

>>17119103
Cringe choice

>> No.17119589

why do people dislike blood meridian

>> No.17119598

>>17119325
You have no idea what you’re talking about, lol

>> No.17119601

>>17119521
So you're agreeing with >>17119149 , then? That it would be possible for a book to be set in the future and make use of advanced, hypothetical technology, without it being science fiction?

>> No.17119634

>>17119358
Find a feudal family and pledge allegiance to their patriarch, i imagine. It might take some convincing to get him to take you on though.

>> No.17119649

>>17119601
Interesting question , I honestly don’t know , I want to say no but I’m willing to hear a counter argument .

Blood meridian is certainly a western, but it’s not a pulp western genre novel .Just like Stalker is a science fiction movie but it’s not in the same camp as Flash Gordon

>> No.17119746
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17119746

>>17119649
I guess what I'm really responding to is this post, >>17119135 claiming that Blood Meridian is not a Western. But it does indeed use certain elements of the Western as a genre.

If it is possible to write a novel set in the Old West that is not a Western, doesn't it stand to reason that it's possible to write a novel set in the future that is not science fiction?

Hell, you could even go further and say that it's possible to write a novel set in a fantastical land where magic is real, but that isn't a fantasy.

>> No.17119749

>>17119103
i hate this fucking book

>> No.17119752

>>17119746
>you could even go further and say that it's possible to write a novel set in a fantastical land where magic is real, but that isn't a fantasy.

No you couldn’t. But BM isn’t a western. Of Mice and Men takes place in the West too, but that’s not a western.

>> No.17119754

>>17119118
Don Q and War and Peace
>>17119423
Don't worry, you will grow up too, one day

>> No.17119757

>>17119749
fight me

>> No.17119765

>>17119757
He’s right, it’s low brow shit

>> No.17119766

>>17119103
i just woke up today after a night of heavy drinking with the boys and the first thing i did after the measly 4h of sleep was quoting whole fucking pages of this book to myself like some crazed fanatic
wtf is wrong with me

>> No.17119770

>>17119766
>wtf is wrong with me
Bad taste

>> No.17119774

>>17119770
what should i read then

>> No.17119776

>>17119752
Why?

>> No.17119778

>>17119774
There's a starter chart round here somewhere, kiddo
Once you get a few under your belt, you won't feel like you need to try so hard

>> No.17119802

>>17119778
you sound like an elitist gatekeeper
and what do you mean by "try so hard"
im not trying to be like you fag

>> No.17119814

>>17119802
Not him. How many books have you read this year, zoomer?

>> No.17119832

>>17119802
>what do you mean by "try so hard"
>>17119766
>i just woke up today after a night of heavy drinking with the boys and the first thing i did after the measly 4h of sleep was quoting whole fucking pages of this book to myself like some crazed fanatic
>wtf is wrong with me
You keep trying too hard

>> No.17119835

>>17119149
>>17119325
>>17119746
Genre fiction is defined by its tropes and shared styles and subject matter, BM does not share style, only a few tropes loosely and while it shares subject matter, it strips away the romanticism and idealization which is a hallmark of the western, even those westerns about the bad guys and bad things use it as a tool to see that romanticism and idealization from a new angle, they work within the form. And yes you can have books set in the future with science and tech which are not science fiction and books with magic which are not fantasy.

Have any of you ever read any proper westerns? Or just McCarthy?

McCarthy is viewed as a great writer because he formed his own style and when he used established forms and tropes, he tended to pull them from unlikely places and use them in new contexts, and most importantly, he did it well, in an interesting way that put everything he drew upon in a new light.

>> No.17119874

>>17119835
BM is Moby Dick in the Desert, it is to the Western what MD is to Treasure Island

>> No.17119898

>>17119874
That requires a fairly simplified view of both MD and BM.

>> No.17119904
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17119904

What many people who make the literary/genre distinction fail to note is that literary fiction is ITSELF a genre. It, too, has conventions and tropes, especially in the last 100 years.

There's just an umbrella of "literature" broken up into all sorts of genres, and "literary fiction" isn't a separate class of literature apart from "genre fiction," it's one genre among many. You can have great literature from literary fiction, that is true. But you can have great literature from other genres, too.

>> No.17119916

>>17119904
No one fails to make that distinction, it is pedantry which most people feel no need to implicitly state.

>> No.17119944

>>17119874
That's what any one-sentence statement is. A simplification.

>> No.17119991

>>17119944
You can simplify without reducing beyond meaning or sense.

BM is MD in the desert, it draws upon the western just as MD draws upon the adventure novel but MD focuses on the individual while BM focuses on the species.

It is not hard anon, you just need to think before you speak. Their themes have as many difference as they have commonalities.

>> No.17120020

>>17119814
how many of the books you read can you quote extensively
my life doesnt revlolve around checking off "high brow" literature so i can brag about it on this board

>> No.17120030

>>17119111
The Crossing is pretty great desu. Don't really watch movies so I can't comment on the merits of capesoy

>> No.17120031

>>17120020
It just revolves around virtue signalling on this board?

>> No.17120065

>>17119589
In denial. They don't like anything that isn't atleast a hundred years old and hasn't been sucked off dry by men dead for 50 years. Need confirmation for liking anything.

>> No.17120084

>44 posts
>17 posters
Did somebody named Holden fuck this guy's mom or something? Kek.

>> No.17120262

>>17119589
preference. Read it and find out if you do or dont like it

>> No.17120326

The distinction between genre fiction and literature fiction doesn't really make sense, it's something from 18-19th century that is really outdated

>> No.17120461

>>17119103
Oregairu
Welcome to the NHK.

>> No.17120464

>>17119103
All fiction is genre fuiction.

>> No.17120646

>>17119521
Star wars isn't sci-fi. It's a samurai movie in space

>> No.17120654

>>17120646
>samurai
It is king arthur and star wars is a mix of sci-fi and fantasy.

>> No.17120659

>>17120654
Can we all just agree it's fun gutter trash?

>> No.17120677

>>17119754
Don Quixote is literally genre fiction bro

>> No.17120685

>>17120659
but it is not fun, it is the house guest that has overstayed its welcome by 20 years and never lifts the seat before peeing.

>> No.17120707

>>17120685
If you're talking about everything Lucas made on his own, without the help of his wife, then I agree.

>> No.17120715

>>17119103
Neuromancer

>> No.17120727

>>17119754
>babby’s first big boy books

>> No.17120732

>>17120707
they are all tainted at this point.
>>17120715
He set out to write genre fiction but he lacked the skill and accidentally made something unique. Then he learned to write the genre fiction he always wanted to write.

>> No.17121080

>>17120677
Let him read his "self attested big boy" literature. That guy is probably 17 years old. Only teens who finish their first classic, act high and mighty against venerated contemporary books.

>> No.17121444

>>17119135
It literally is.

>> No.17121455
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17121455

>>17119103

>> No.17121675

>>17119778
The only one trying hard here is you

>> No.17121702

>>17121675
The funny thing is that Blood Meridian probably is on that chart.

>> No.17121710

>>17119765
Only midwits complain that something is low brow

>> No.17121738

>>17119754
>I read mature books for big boys!
Try reading more than ten novels then get back to me

>> No.17121758 [DELETED] 

Blood meridian is the desperate cry of a man-boy who has never experienced violence yet desperately wishes to.

>> No.17121765

Blood meridian is the petulant cry of a man-boy who has never experienced violence yet desperately wishes to.

>> No.17121781

>>17121765
>>17121758
Nice delete. Also, wrong.

>> No.17121790

>>17119752
>forgetting the epic gun duel between Lenny and George

>> No.17121798

>>17121781
>Also, wrong
elaborate

>> No.17122378

>>17119754
>pretends to like Don Quixote
Anon, please.

>> No.17122391

>>17119766
This is literally a Tumblr-tier post.

>> No.17123460

>>17119103
https://medium.com/swlh/literary-vs-genre-fiction-9173e11e77df

>> No.17124893

>>17119103
Genre Fiction doesn't exist.

>> No.17125000

>>17119135
>people with big hats and guns riding horses in 1800s America shooting indiands
>not western
nigger are you trying to be a contrarian or are you genuinely retarded?

>> No.17125655

>>17119601
Not to sound reddit, but I think we've reached a point where science fiction is starting to become just fiction. I can't think of a novel off the top of my head, but, for example, astronauts on a crippled spaceship on an aborted moon landing mission trying desperately to get back to Earth definitely sounds like science fiction - except that it's based on the real story of the Apollo 13 mission.

>> No.17125970

>>17125655
Good satire

>> No.17127198

>>17125655
lol are you kidding

>> No.17128611

>>17123460
>I remember Terry saying to me at some point, ‘You know, you can do all you want, but you put in one fucking dragon and they call you a fantasy writer.
Fucking kek. Genre writers are pathetic

>> No.17128637

>>17120677
>>17121080
>>17120727
>>17121738
>>17122378
Don't worry, you will grow up too, one day
It's funny watching all you insecure zoomers pretending to be /lit/er than thou, and using the top meme book to do it
>>17119991
See, you knew everything I implied, and no one who could not infer what you added has the next clue what you're talking about

>> No.17128660

>>17128637
>Its funny watching all you insecure zoomers pretending to be /lit/er than thou
>"Haha I like Don Q and W&P. You'll grow up too one day haha."
It's really sad if you are over 22 and still can't notice the hypocrisy in your own posts.
If the books you read brought you to this, then what use were those books?

>> No.17128685

>>17128660
Not him but BM is a meme and those books aren’t. That’s the main thing.

>> No.17128692

>>17128685
>Don Quixote and War & Peace aren't memes
Welcome newfriend! Enjoy your stay! Being a meme on /lit/ is a compliment btw. We don't use Reddit's definition.
>Not that guy
Come on brahh... don't take me for a fool.

>> No.17128697

>>17128637
>See, you knew everything I implied
If I did not know what you meant I would not have been able to point out the the flawed simplification in the first place. Not everyone has read both and you made them out to be much more alike than they are. Put a little care and thought into your words.