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/lit/ - Literature

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17106697 No.17106697 [Reply] [Original]

OH NO A-ARE THESE PEOPLE FREELY EXCHANGING GOODS AND SERVICES FOR PECUNIARY COMPENSATION? NONONONO THIS CAN'T BE I'M GOING INSAAAAAAAAANNEEEEEEEEEE ARRRRRGGHHHHH ENGELS SEND ME SOME MONIES

>> No.17106949
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17106949

>>17106697
>PECUNIARY

>> No.17107201

Marx had no problem with the free exchange of goods and services.

>> No.17107339

>>17107201
Cope

>> No.17107370

the anglo internet starter pack
>cope
>cringe
>sexual fanfic
>sexualize everything
>obsession with appearances
>obsession with sex
>take your meds
>schizo
>illiterate but shares opinions
>tries to shit on marx
>praises marx unknowingly

>> No.17107407

>>17107339
Marx had no problem with the free exchange of goods and services.

>> No.17107446

>>17107407
>Marx had no problem with free exchange of goods and services
He literally abhorred wage labor which is exchange of labor for variable capital

>> No.17107448

do you people feel no shame about coming here and running your mouth about books you haven't read

Not even a fucken commie but god damn

>> No.17107464

>that moment when he borrowed money from engels to play the stock market and lost it all

Keynes at least made a couple mill

>> No.17107479
File: 336 KB, 497x499, Pepe SOCIETA.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17107479

>freely
If the consequences of not exchanging my labor for resources is starvation, then it ain't true freedom nigga

>> No.17107482

why do you still bother with this shit if every single european writer in history has already been btfo by sayyid qutb

>> No.17107500

>>17106697
>FREELY
As freely as a person inside a bad country can just leave. If every country is bad, they can just go live in the ocean or something, idk.

>This is your brain on "libertarianism"

>> No.17107574

>>17107464
Did he really? Source?

>> No.17107580

>>17107479
Wait, are you suggesting that everyone should get free food and just work as a hobby only if they so please?

>> No.17107582

>>17107500
>freely means I get to live at the expense of others and nothing bad will ever happen to me because that's unfreedom
This is your brain on Marxism

>> No.17107589

>>17107574
haha u didn't know marx speculated on stocks and unsurprisingly sucked at it because his understanding of how the economy works was shit? ha ha read a book kid

>> No.17107595

>>17107479
Your body is a contingent biological being that will never be free from the constant need for energy in the form of said resources. It sucks, I know, but it's not capitalism's fault. Maybe if we get robots to do everything it'll all be different, who knows. But still, someone has to make and maintain the robots, so the people who control that process (not necessarily those who actually have the skills to do it, they'll probably be working at gunpoint) will be the ones who decide your fate.

>> No.17107604

>>17107595
Point is, it ain't free bro.

>> No.17107622

>>17107582
It's not a dichotomy. If your country or your company is bad, you and your fellows should have the power to make it better. Authoritarianism doesn't allow this for countries. Libertarianism doesn't allow for this for companies.

>> No.17107677

>>17107574

going to bed right now but I found this

In an 1864 letter, Marx writes:

I have, which will surprise you not a little, been speculating — partly in American funds, but more especially in English stocks, which are springing up like mushrooms this year (in furtherance of every imaginable and unimaginable joint stock enterprise), are forced up to quite an unreasonable level and then, for the most part, collapse. In this way, I have made over £400 and, now that the complexity of the political situation affords greater scope, I shall begin all over again. It’s a type of operation that makes demands on one’s time, and it’s worth while running some risk in order to relieve the enemy of his money.

>> No.17107688

>>17107448
>do you people feel no shame about coming here and running your mouth about books you haven't read

Ask the communists. I doubt there is a single Neocommunist who's read the canon.

>> No.17107882

>>17107446
Yes
Wage labour is not a free exchange. In previous modes of production, workers had free access to the means of production. This is no longer the case under capitalism, in which workers are compelled to sell their labor power.

>> No.17107900

Imagine having a dead end 9-5 job and unironically believing that simping for billionaires who don’t even know you exist will ever get you anywhere

>> No.17107904

>>17107900
imagine having a dead end job and coping with marxism instead of just doing something else

>> No.17107926

>>17106697
Back in the cagie wagie! Mr shekelberg needs another yact! Don't you want your pecuniary compensation? Oh and we're cutting your healthcare benefits too!

>> No.17107934

>>17106697
>Freely
t. Never read a history of capitalism

>> No.17107939
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17107939

>>17107882
>In previous modes of production, workers had free access to the means of production.

>> No.17107945

>>17107939
Yes. We lived under primitive communism for 95% of existence.

>> No.17107963

>>17107945
Even under feudalism peasants had free access to land , and could easily produce their own tools.

>> No.17107964

Libertarians are the most annoying people to exist. I genuinely don't get how you can look at the world right now and think we need MORE capitalism. At least anarcho communists in theory want freedom even if it's unrealistic, you all literally want to be corporate slaves.

>> No.17107965

>>17107882
>Wage labour is not a free exchange
What fucking crack are leftists smoking lmfao

>> No.17107970

>>17107965
None. I am anti drugs.

>> No.17107972

>>17107934
You can't have capitalism without freedom, imbecile.

>>17107964
*looks at the world and sees how it prospers during free market periods*
Yeah I wonder why we want more freedom and capitalism

>> No.17107980

>>17107945
And now we've lived under actual communism for 5 % of history where farmers aren't even entitled to their own labor

>> No.17107981
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17107981

>>17107446
people pimp themselves out but it's under conditions they're self conscious of and resent, all other commodities literally don't care about their price... free will makes freedom problematic

>> No.17107987
File: 126 KB, 1440x907, sweatshop.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17107987

>Sure am glad I freely exchanged with Mr. Shekelberg (:

>> No.17107997

>>17107972
>You can't have capitalism without freedom, imbecile.
Right that's why capitalism was founded by the government forcing people out of their villages and into factories, and slavery in the new world.

>> No.17108007
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17108007

>>17107964
>I genuinely don't get how you can look at the world right now and think we need MORE capitalism

>> No.17108009

>>17107980
Retard do you know what communism is?

>> No.17108018

>>17107980
you could be homeless and just live off stuff you picked out of the trash like a hunter gathered and still have a higher standard of living than people in primitive pre-historic communism, so why don't you do it? oh right, because communism is really about resentment that some other guy who is more industrious than you has more stuff than you, boohoo

>> No.17108027

>>17107980
Communism has never existed, as there has never been a classless or stateless society. I am anti communist but this is plainly observable.

>> No.17108043

>>17108027
if you even do something utterly innocent and trivial like go on a road trip with a group of friends, someone will become the defacto leader managing day to day bullshit, and that one guy will be fucking the chick the whole time while everyone else hopes they get a chance to jack off in the motel shower in the next town, humans will never be equal because they aren't equal, read rousseau bruh

>> No.17108071

>>17107997
>the government forcing people out of their villages and into factories
This has only ever happened in leftist societies.

>> No.17108086

>>17108043
Communists don't claim that people are equal. Also I am not communist

>> No.17108087
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17108087

>>17108043
>Communism is when everyone is equal
For how much you guys complain about Marx you could bother reading him for once.
>>17108071
Lmao. Read a single book about the industrial revolution you retard. Was the UK leftist during that period?

>> No.17108094

>>17108087
>anime
>commie
Just about right.

>> No.17108096

>>17108007
Hyperbased! (neopbuh)

>> No.17108101

>>17108087
Marxism isn’t communism

>> No.17108104

>>17108094
haha i bet you it's that guy who always posts those sad sacks threads about being a 30 year old virgin, he always posts with manchild appropriate avatars

>> No.17108111

>>17107900
>I chose a shitty career and as a result I've worked an unfullfilling 9-5 job that makes me hate my life, therefore everyone must have a shitty career and as a result work an unfullfilling 9-5 job that makes them hate their life
nigga have a high IQ and go to school for engineering, a prestigious business school, or an Ivy if you don't then become a handyman go to any major city and you'll make a shit ton of money

>> No.17108123
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17108123

>> No.17108126

>>17107964
>MORE capitalism

We need more freedom at the very least. Capital;ism is merely the freedom to choose what to do with your own labour and resources.

>> No.17108131
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17108131

>>17108126
No it isn't. Read this.

>> No.17108138

>>17107370
why does this board hate on "anglos" so much, half of you seem to blame literally everything on anglso

>> No.17108151

>>17108111
dude, there are a lot of ways to make a buck, if you're one of those illiterate but "good with my hands" types then open a fucking barber shop or install car stereos, idk, use your fucking imagination, god, it's a free country

>> No.17108152
File: 115 KB, 720x960, Capital.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
17108152

>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO CAPITAL IS USING HUMANS AS SLAVES I HAVE SEEN THE FUTURE NOW LET ME WRITE THIS BILLION PAGED THESIS ON THE HORRORS OF CAPITAL

>> No.17108177

>>17108152
>NOOOO THE STANDARD OF LIVING KEEPS GOING UP, MILLIONS OF PLEBS GOING TO COLLEGE GETTING EDUCATIONS! PERSONAL COMPUTERS IN EVERY HOME! VACCINES FOR NEWLY EMERGING PANDEMICS CREATED IN LESS THAN A YEAR! NOOOOOOOOOO GET BACK ON THE FARM U PEASANTS!!!

>> No.17108186

>>17107997
>forcing people out of their villages and into factories
Never happened except urrs and maoist china

>> No.17108195

>>17108138
French Canadian posters

>> No.17108197

>>17108186
I never denied it happened there either. Read >>17108131 though. It happened in basically every industrializing country.

>> No.17108200

>>17108087
Nobody forced farmers go work in factored in the UK tho

>> No.17108217

>>17108138
>why does this board hate on "anglos" so much
Unfortunately we are living in an Anglo world. They are entirely responsible for everything wrong in this world, although I would go back to the frogs to trace the beginning of the end

>> No.17108218

>>17108197
ironic then that china actually had to put internal travel restrictions on people to stop them all from flooding out of the countryside into the cities in search of industrial jobs, i wonder why they had to be "forced" in the west but not in china?

>> No.17108222

>>17108200
>What were the enclosure acts

>> No.17108230
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17108230

>>17108138
They're just jealous pal

>> No.17108240

>>17108222
>can't farm here no more, bud

well then i guess they were lucky there were factories they could work in rather than nothing

>> No.17108249

>>17108240
Yeah so you're just proving my point, retard. Government forced them off their farms and they had no choice but to slave away in factories.
Really """free"""

>> No.17108258

>>17107900
>>17107964
>>17107987
>>17108027
soviet russia. end of argument. "soviet russia wasn't communism" is as good an argument as "usa isn't capitalism because it has welfare".

>> No.17108262

>>17108249
the more industrious souls probably came to america to make their fortune and the rest is history

>> No.17108276

>>17108262
As usual lolberts can't make systemic analysis and just repeat empty phrases about gabidalism and freedum

>> No.17108283

>>17108258
the good thing is now that communism has failed all the academics there were propped up by soviet bux are at the end of the line and being replaced by woke capitalists, resentful marxist shitposters are the rear guard of a failed ideology on the way to irrelevancy

>> No.17108287

>>17107882
Wage labor is objectively a free exchange of goods and services since people choose to opt into a position in which they are freely getting paid for their goods and/or services.

Slave labor in prisons and human-trafficked sweat shops are NOT an exchange of goods and services though, and neither are mandated quotas or government implemented "equality of outcome" amongst all positions.

>> No.17108307

>>17107479
>>17107604
Yes, it is, in fact it's far more free than it was 200 years ago, where you objectively didn't have a choice to work or not. Here, we have bread lines, food banks, food stamps, and many benefits for those unemployed or unable to work. Back then, you'd die, sometimes even if you did work.

Life is harsh, grow up, deal with it.

>> No.17108319

>>17108217
Wrong, we are living in a Greek/Roman world. All western governments have some for of Republican or Democratic governship and we hold Democracy as the highest achievable end with all of our philosophy and rhetoric based upon the principles of Plato and Socrates.

>> No.17108343

>>17108319
Democracy is good
Rationalism is bad

>> No.17108358

>>17108283
most neomarxists devote their efforts rationalising what happened in the eastern bloc to make capitalism the problem

>> No.17108371

>>17108262
>came to america to make their fortune
yeah america where the streets are paved with gold and everyone lives in mansions

>> No.17108378

>>17108343
Democracy is actually shit, Republics function way better.

>> No.17108392

>>17108378
Ah yes. The American voting system is truly a beacon

>> No.17108393

>>17108358
This is exactly right. Idk what the other guy was saying but in my view it seems that professors are pretty marxist and a lot of impressionable youth fall into neo marxism
What i don't get is how they can possibly rationalize anything in any communist nation, when the systems were more or less the "same" (rejection of capitalism) but people suffered a lot. Eastern Europe fared much better than Central Asia for example.

>>17108371
America was ironically more "socialist" in the past when the government spent a lot of time and energy regulating corporations and promoting workers unions

>> No.17108409

>>17108177
he agrees with you retard.
also his observation on alienation was spot on.

>> No.17108428

>>17108177
Is this supposed to be representative of Communism/socialism? Because what you're saying sounds a lot like post war capitalist economies in Europe and Asia which eliminated poverty and transformed into very rich places within 30-40 years

>> No.17108468

>>17107446
Might be on to something here

>> No.17108489

>>17108200
They literally did you cumbrain brain retard

>> No.17108519

>>17108240
Lmao, now you’re obviously trolling. Well memed friend.

>> No.17108527

This faggot, faggot #1 >>17108177, doesn't get this anon's >>17108152 sarcasm
This faggot, faggot #2 >>17108428, somehow tops him and doesn't get faggot #1's misplaced sarcasm.
> lolbertarian autistism doesn't detect sarcasm
Lolbros, why are we like this?