/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17075391]

What are some good books on classical music?

[Anonymous No.17075476]

>>17075391
Reading books about music is like dancing about architecture. Listen to good music and Bach, Schönberg dean Martin and rat pack Cold War toggle bobble hick hick hick faces faces faces Arc break we gotta go back to an earlier similah SIMILAH miswithheld

[Anonymous No.17075900]

>>17075476
You're irredeemably stupid
>>17075391
I'm curious as well, want some stuff about 2nd viennese school particularly. Bump

[Anonymous No.17076283]

>>17075391
GET THIS PHILISITNE OFF MY BOARD

[Anonymous No.17076510]

Schoenberg YES!

[Anonymous No.17077232]

>>17075391
The Rest Is Noise
Esthetics of Music

[Anonymous No.17077606]

>>17075391
Everything Schönberg wrote

[Anonymous No.17077757]

>>17076510
blu

[Anonymous No.17077893]

>>17075391
Mann's Doktor Faustus if you're looking for fiction.

[Anonymous No.17078644]

>>17075476
Are you retarded? Every composer has to read books on harmony, counterpoint and music history.

[Anonymous No.17078707]

I don't understand how people can enjoy Schoenberg's shitty ass "music" at all. Same with all other atonal faggots like Scriabin and the rest of the Second Viennese school.

[Anonymous No.17078708]

-The Beethoven Quartet Co-mpanion by Robert Winter
-Cadenza: A Musical Career by Erich Leinsdorf
-The Composer’s Advocate by Erich Leinsdorf
-The Study of Orchestration by Samuel Adler
-The First Four Notes: Beethoven's Fifth and the Human Imagination by Matthew Guerrieri

[Anonymous No.17078723]

>people defending schoenberg
Fucking kill yourselves 12 tone literally eradicated all popular interest in classical music and relegated it to the dust bin of history.

Verklärte Nacht is literally about a fucking cuck. Literally. Pic related is schoenberg defenders

[Anonymous No.17078733]

>>17078723
What is that gif from? I keep seeing it around.

[Anonymous No.17078744]

Depends on what you’re looking for, Swafford’s Vintage Guide to Classical Music is a good introduction to the major works.

[Anonymous No.17078751]

>>17078707
Have u considered developing some taste and contextualizing the movement? If you follow the evolution of german music from bach to Beethoven all the way to the late romantic period with wagner bruckner and Mahler, schoenberg berg and Webern follow quite smoothly from the three I just mentioned. If you trulg understand Wagner the only logical next step in the development of music is what schoenberg and his disciples did. They are the heirs of wagnerian modernism.

[Anonymous No.17078773]

>>17078723
>12 tone literally eradicated all popular interest in classical music
No it didn't, just took classical music (and music in general) to it's logical conclusion

[Anonymous No.17078779]

>>17078723
>12 tone literally eradicated all popular interest in classical music
Classical music was never for the masses, what the fuck are you talking about? The genuine problem is that there simply is no longer a bourgeoisie that appreciates and cultivates the arts, classical music has been bastardized and turned into background noise (rip Beethoven) and popular music has pretended to be a seriois art(see jazz), so yes, making obscure music is a genuine way of revolting against the encroachment upon every facet of our lives by popular culture.

[Anonymous No.17078795]

>what are some good books?

[Anonymous No.17078858]

>>17078751
That's nice but it doesn't change the fact that it still sounds like someone trying to make their violin sound like a growling cat.

[Anonymous No.17078883]

>>17078707
>Scriabin
>atonal
It's obvious you don't know what you're talking about, especially believing in the atonal-tonal dichotomy in the first place. Under 120 IQ stuff.

[Anonymous No.17078892]

>>17078723
Troglodyte with an extremely ahistorical take

[Anonymous No.17078897]

>>17078858
early webern and berg schoenberg sound very similar to late Bruckner and some late Brahms.
Have you listened to Bruckner's 7th and 9th? What do you think of the use of free tonality in the latter? have you listened to the last of the operas in Wagner's ring cycles? Tristan? What do you think of the use of tonality there?
What is your opinion regarding whole tonality in the case of Debussy?
Have you listened to Bach? What about the B minor fugue from book 1(Schoenberg considered it to be the first atonal compositon)? What about Gesualdo, what are your thoughts on his rather adventurous chromaticism?

[Anonymous No.17078904]

>>17078883
He obviously doesn't know what he's talking about but Scriabin did in fact develop(independently of the 12 tone system) a system of atonality. One of the only russian composers I enjoy.

[Anonymous No.17078911]

>>17078892
incredible image, thank u atonal anon

[Anonymous No.17078913]

>>17078883
Pretty sure late Scriabin is atonal.
>especially believing in the atonal-tonal dichotomy in the first place.
What's wrong with it?

[Anonymous No.17078933]

>>17078904
>>17078913
>>17078904
His music isn't atonal, it has synthetic chords that are built around specific tones (this is where he's supposedly "similar" to serialism, but that's a stretch) which have tonal centers that often get repeated; the periodically structured phrases and melodies are often repeated a second time a third or fouth interval higher as well, again repeating specific tones. The music is highly chromatic, but it's not like Schoenberg at all. Similarly you wouldn't call Tristan und Isolde or Strauss' Elektra atonal.

[Anonymous No.17078941]

>>17078913
>What's wrong with it?
Because I don't completely trust traditional theorists and musicologists when they use that terminology since some even refer to anything outside of common era functionality as atonal. Similarly it's dumb to lump entirely different composers like Ferneyhough, Sorabji, Ligeti, Schoenberg, Bartok, Scriabin and Lachenmann for example into one single group as if they have much in common in the first place.

[Anonymous No.17078954]

>>17076510
Based

[Anonymous No.17078957]

>>17075391
>>17075900
>>17076510
>>17077757

Read from the best, A theory of tonality and haromny by Schoenberg himself

[Anonymous No.17078958]

>>17078723
What is this fucking meme I keep seeing

[Anonymous No.17078969]

>>17078779
The masses like Bach, Beethoven, etc. Nobody likes Schoenberg's weird 12 tone stuff, when he was making more normal music he was alright.

[Anonymous No.17078972]

>>17078957
Will I even understand it if I know next to nothing about music theory?

[Anonymous No.17078977]

>>17078707
>>17078723
>>17078858
filtered

[Anonymous No.17078981]

>>17078972
No, better start studying your counter point

[Anonymous No.17078983]

>>17078969
>The masses like Bach, Beethoven
You don't know what "the masses" even means, dumbshit

[Anonymous No.17078990]

>>17078972
No, I learned music theory at school so I cant really give you any advice to learn it. www.musictheory.com

[Anonymous No.17078996]

>>17078858
If you think 12 tone is just random notes you are a brainlet

[Anonymous No.17079001]

>>17078983
They have tens of millions of views on youtube my angry friend

[Anonymous No.17079039]

>>17079001
Bruh the masses like one or two of their movements, they don't even listen to their full works.
Go ahead and show a "member of the masses" the art of the fugue and they will be as repulsed then if you showed them a schoenberg piano composition.

[Anonymous No.17079053]

>>17079001
Also lol @ thinking that what the average person likes is representative of the quality of the art, I love when 4chan autists suddenly shill for normies when it serves as a coping mechanism for their inability to appreciate serious art.

[Anonymous No.17079071]

>>17079039
The Moonlight Sonata has 159 million views, the 9th symphony has 26 million, Silence concerto has 8 million, a 2 hour 'best of beethoven' video has 44m, he has lots of videos with around 1m. If he were a pop artist this would qualify as being very successful

[Anonymous No.17079074]

>>17075391
Music as an Art by Scruton.

[Anonymous No.17079076]

>>17079053
>I love when 4chan autists suddenly shill for normies when it serves as a coping mechanism for their inability to appreciate serious art
this is the funniest and most bizarre 4chan trope and I see it all the time, it makes me wonder how many of them are just crypto/failed normies

[Anonymous No.17079078]

>>17079053
I replied to a post saying that the masses never liked classical, which is demonstrably untrue, they like people like Beethoven. That he is that popular 200 years after his death is all the more impressive.

[Anonymous No.17079151]

>>17078892
>>17078779
You're fucking retards. A simple Google search can refute your weird little crusade for 12 tone bullshit. I guess periodicals like the New Yorker, the NY Times, or Swarthmores newspaper are trogolodytes too

>Atonality, twelve-tone technique and serialism alienated listeners, who found the strange modulations and dissonant chords unsavory. Much of the music’s popularity in the 19th century rested on the continual flow of new works from energetic composers. After World War I — at least in Western Europe and the United States — fewer and fewer new pieces achieved the kind of appeal that romantic pieces had. Many composers stopped trying to engage the public; some came to view “populism” as a betrayal of artistic integrity. In a controversial 1958 article titled “Who Cares If You Listen?” the American composer Milton Babbitt declares that writers of “serious music” should completely ignore audiences, targeting instead “fellow professionals” or even just writing for themselves. It’s not hard to see why people lost interest in contemporary music.

[Anonymous No.17079158]

>>17078779
kys if you don't think jazz is kino music.
If your tier list doesn't look like this
> S: 1. Baroque/Classical, 2. Jazz, ...
or this
> S: 1. Baroque/Classical, ...
> A: 1. Jazz, ...
You are a brainlet and probably a pseud as well.

[Anonymous No.17079205]

Ah yes the geniuses defending Schoenberg and 12 tone music. Here is Schoenbergs most famous piece. You can see what type of person would be enraptured by it. Read this description of the poem it is based on

>Dehmel's poem (from 1896) describes a man and woman walking through a dark forest on a moonlit night. The woman shares a dark secret with her new lover: she bears the child of another man. The stages of Dehmel's poem are reflected throughout the composition, beginning with the sadness of the woman's confession, a neutral interlude wherein the man reflects upon the confession, and a finale reflecting the man's bright acceptance (and forgiveness) of the woman

I think enough said. The 5 pseuds in the world who defend bullshit like Schoenberg are just obsessed with the "boldness" of the first person who gave popular artistic credibility to being a cuck.

[Anonymous No.17079246]

Bros why does classical literature suck such fat fucking dick? I listen to some shit like Bach and it's literally all over the place. Classical music arrhythmic and the musical narrative is almost always hideously inconsistent. I'd take Skrillex over 17th century bourgeoisie memery any day of the week.

[Anonymous No.17079257]

>>17079246
Classical music*
holy shit

[Anonymous No.17079264]

>>17079205
Wow interesting hey totally random question what religion is Schoenberg by the way?

[Anonymous No.17079295]

>>17079246
learn what a fugue is and then come back
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFrs-oc9Vgs

[Anonymous No.17079423]

>this one faggot assblasted that no one else enjoys listening to Schoenberg's chalkboard scratchings
Ayy LMAO!!!!

[Anonymous No.17079473]

>>17075391
Gradus ad Parnassum

[Anonymous No.17079496]

>>17079246
>classical music
>Bach
Actual retard

[Anonymous No.17079514]

>>17079423
He doesn't enjoy listening to it either. Liking that shit is solely ideological and political. Theres one faggot on mu who unironically calls anyone who dares criticize serialism as fascist, writing extensive essays about it anytime someone brings up schoenberg. These people are deranged ideologues who have the audacity to criticize others for consuming art when they can only consume as a signaling exercise

[Anonymous No.17079532]

>>17079514
>Liking that shit is solely ideological and political.
It isn't
I know jack shit about politics and I enjoy Schonberg

[Anonymous No.17079548]

>>17079532
Yeah ok atonality is objectively unenjoyable. There has been ample experimental research conducted to prove this point. Its not even a debate. Serialism only has a place in the context of mood pieces in theater and movies to evoke uncomfortable feelings. Pseuds like yourself did successfully kill classical music in the public sphere though so that's fine.

[Anonymous No.17079555]

>>17079496
>why dont you care about what you dont care about
zero EQ post
I don't give a shit if it's baroque or big cocque it all sounds the same to me

[Anonymous No.17079593]

>>17079548
>Yeah ok atonality is objectively unenjoyable.
Even if it was (it isn't), enjoyable = good
Otherwise you're putting top 40 pop on the level of Bach, and above Schoenberg

[Anonymous No.17079600]

>>17079593
enjoyable =/= good*

[Anonymous No.17079620]

>>17079548
Artistic pleasure it's just an arbitrary and coincidental private standard.

[Anonymous No.17079642]

>>17079600
top 40 isn't really enjoyable, that shit isn't mostly cringe. you ever get an uber driver from a macho culture? he's going to be blasting the wackest pseudo-club hits from whatever the dance station is in your city. when i got an old white boomer dad listening to a mets game once i was like oh yes thank u jesus

[Anonymous No.17079645]

>>17079593
the absolute state of atonal fags

[Anonymous No.17079669]

>>17079246
Holy shit there might be no hope for you but here, listen to these:

Bach, God of all /mu/sic —
> The Brandenburg Concertos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp53Jh6qO6Q (my favorite part is probably be at the end, No. 6 In B-flat Major, BWV 1051: III Allegro : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RaGcWX5mrU )
> Air (imagine not liking air, kek): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrVDATvUitA
> (Christmas Bonus): Christmas Oratorio BWV 248: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJts7bpW2VE

Vivaldi, The Red Priest —
> The Four Seasons: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRxofEmo3HA
> La Follia (taken from a pop. theme in folk music): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v8zxoEoA_Q
> Violin Concerto in A Minor RV356: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPba-i26YNA

Jean-Baptiste Lully who some /lit/izens might know from his work with Molière.
> Marche pour la cérémonie des Turcs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy-yugPw_X8
> Passacaille d'Armide (Les Plaisirs ont choisi pour asile): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnEA97H8OeQ
> Le Ballet royal de la Nuit [Ouverture]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qiy0PhDr7h0

Hændel, a sort of anglofied version of Bach, very glorious:
> Sarabande(which is sorta like La Folia, plagiarism lol): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klPZIGQcrHA
> Music for the Royal Fireworks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7vJ2UFbeXA
> (Christmas bonus): The Messiah https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71NCzuDNUcg glorious overall but the most "christmasy" is def. For Unto Us a Child is Born https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFBIJgkj_-g

There are a lot more good ones but this post is already too fucking long and this isn't even /mu/

[Anonymous No.17079674]

>>17079642
Top 40 pop is objectively enjoyable, according to that pseud's standards
If you show a Billie eyelash song to some zoomer girl and then show her the fucking Missa solemnis right after, she will prefer the Billie song a million times and will probably fall asleep in the middle of the piece
You can do this with some 20 y/o /mu/ pseud with say Radiohead and some renaissance piece, most likely same result
Enjoyability isn't really worth anything as an argument for why something is good

[Anonymous No.17079683]

>>17079620
>>17079593
>parts of the brain, even in newborn infants, correlated to biological pleasure do not light up, instead centers for disgust do when serial music is played
>wtf that doesn't mean anything
Yeah ok. We're not even talking about an acquired taste, because that also produces pleasurable responses. Pretending to like it really is the pinnacle of pseud. Hey just for fun, could you go ahead and defend the thematic material of verklarte nacht for me?

[Anonymous No.17079694]

The fact that there are still people talking about serialism as if the point of serial composers was to satisfy some demand for beauty, makes me sad.

[Anonymous No.17079708]

>>17079683
There is actually no serious research conducted to prove your point (and there will never be, because that's not how science works). You don't know aboslutely nothing about psychoacoustic that's why you have that attitude.

[Anonymous No.17079715]

>>17079669
Thanks

[Anonymous No.17079722]

>>17079683
see: >>17079674
there's literally a fucking guy ITT that thinks classical music is shit >>17079246, is he pretending to dislike it then according to you? is his brain fucked up?
>Hey just for fun, could you go ahead and defend the thematic material of verklarte nacht for me?
there's literally nothing wrong with it, /pol/ has fried your brain

[Anonymous No.17079738]

>>17079722
lmao. I'm not the guy, but it really seems you're really defensive about serialism for some reason. As a bystander, it makes >>17079514 look like he has a point. Post your nose

[Anonymous No.17079756]

>>17079708
Yes, there is. Ever heard of Bence Nanay?

[Anonymous No.17079762]

>>17079715
No problem, hope you like at least some of the pieces :)

[Anonymous No.17079767]

Before commenting on this thread read this book. This is going to help you express a more meaningful opinion... It's outdated but you have to start from somewhere.

[Anonymous No.17079768]

>>17079738
the guy himself starting sperging out ITT about how everyone just pretends to like serialism and how it killed classical music out of nowhere
>As a bystander, it makes >>17079514 look like he has a point. Post your nose
he doesn't have a point because none of what he said applies to me
>Post your nose
ah glad to know I'm wasting my time with another /pol/ retard

[Anonymous No.17079784]

>>17079756
No, and I'm still 100% sure that now you are going to post a case study that has nothing to do with your claim, just to prove a point that you don't fully understand yourself.

[Anonymous No.17079790]

>>17079768
wait, so you unironically think this is good???
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEY9lmCZbIc

[Anonymous No.17079799]

>>17079722
>defending a piece about being joyful that your gf got impregnated by another man
>if you don't like that you're pol
This is your brain on serialism. Enough said hahahaha

[Anonymous No.17079802]

>>17079768
Hey, just another completely disinterested bystander here,
I would also like to see you post your (((nose))).

[Anonymous No.17079820]

>listen to music that sucks to prove your commitment to high culture

that's the stop on the pseud line where i get off

[Anonymous No.17079826]

FUCKING POLTARDS WHO BELIEVE IN GETTING THEIR OWN WOVES PREGNANT

LISTEN TO SHITTY MUSIC AND LET OTHER MEN FUCK YOUR WIVES YOU FASCISTS

[Anonymous No.17079836]

>>17079708
You are just a fucking liar at this point. Also a cuck??

[Anonymous No.17079857]

>>17079790
>>17079799
>>17079802
>>17079820
>>17079826
>>17079836
go back to your containment board, /pol/tards are literally incapable of understanding art

[Anonymous No.17079859]

>>17079790
Do you have any idea of the complexity of the signification process characterizing the experience of music? Are you aware of the nested layers of reality contributing to the esthetic process (the creation of meaning) originating from the listener?
Take your normative stance and stuff it up your ass because it is worth nothing.

[Anonymous No.17079870]

>>17079836
Read a book dumbass.

[Anonymous No.17079876]

>>17079857
>art
lmao k
>>17079859
>had to write a paper on why this is good
absolute cope

[Anonymous No.17079880]

The Classical Style by Charles Rosen

[Anonymous No.17079885]

>>17079876
>the entire field of aesthetics is a cope

[Anonymous No.17079886]

>>17079859
Please explain why you enjoy serialism instead of mapping out bus routes in a busy urban center? These things are the same in their complexity, its just one sounds like shit.

Frankly people like you should be murdered. This makes me want to be a fascist. I can't relate to your brain at all. You like dissonant freak music (or claim to... you actually just pretend to like it) and you get indignant and accuse people of being nazis because they don't like the idea of being cuckolded.

Your brain is broken. You are a waste of resources. You will never be anything other than a psychotic partisan tool and a petty bourgeois consumer. You deserve death.

[Anonymous No.17079890]

>>17079876
It has nothing to do with serialism, and it's a book. You are truly retarded, and this makes me sad.

[Anonymous No.17079891]

>>17079859
>enjoying art is subjective but this paper explains why you have to like serialism or you're pol
Fuck off idiot

[Anonymous No.17079900]

>>17079857
>>17079870
Oh look its mad and is now reduced to effeminate low content reddit quips. Wow what college did you go to that allows you to defend your tastes with such eloquence

[Anonymous No.17079905]

>>17079857
>>17079859
You and people like you should honestly kys :\

[Anonymous No.17079917]

>>17079886
I don't really care if it's beautiful. As I said, "beauty is a coincidental and private standard". Is serialism "cognitively opaque"? For the most part, yes. Does it mean it is bad? Of course not, beauty has nothing to do with it. I acknowledge the importance of serialist experiments and that's why I don't share your dumb opinions.

[Anonymous No.17079921]

>>17079891
>>17079900
>>17079905
HOES MAD

[Anonymous No.17079935]

>>17079917
>you're just not smart enough to get it.
this is actual cope
This is not beautiful:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeTFxbsVGrI
you're probably the faggot who thinks taking a shit in an art museum is beautiful
>>17079921
ah I see you're employing the "uno reverse card" argument

[Anonymous No.17079946]

>>17079917
I only just posted, but I was the one earlier who noted that defenders of serialism ultimately end up just calling everyone a fascist because that's apparently the only defense of their awful music.

And hey that's what you did. This really just confirms that the only interest in this music is partisan ideology and nothing more. If I could see just one argument about serialism that didn't devolve into accusations of fascism I might believe differently. But that didn't happen here. It being complex isn't a defense, because lots of things are complex. Go work on a calculus problem. Oh wait you're a stupid music pseud.

[Anonymous No.17079974]

>>17079935
You are the one who is coping. Did I talk about "intelligence"? You are making stuff up to cope.
When I say that it's "cognitively opaque" I'm referring to the discrepancy between the poietic and esthetic process which characterizes this music.

[Anonymous No.17079977]

>>17079921
You are a fag, simple as.

[Anonymous No.17079987]

>>17079946
>And hey that's what you did.
no he literally didn't you schizophrenic fuck, no one ITT even mentioned fascism except for you
if you're talking about me I called you a /pol/tard because of your obsession with cuckoldry and jews, but obviously you know that already and you're also obviously arguing in bad faith

[Anonymous No.17080002]

>>17079974
>>17079987
lmao yall really defensive for some reason

[Anonymous No.17080008]

>>17079946
I didn't accused anyone of fascism actually. What do you want me to say? Do I have to explain to you why it was necessary and how it caused a paradigm shift responsible for the discovery of a complete new sound world? And I'm talking about acousmatic and so called "phenomenological" music (Sciarrino, Saunders, Lachenmann, etc.).

[Anonymous No.17080020]

https://youtu.be/B-4IyFaZo2Q

[Anonymous No.17080057]

One of the best threads in a while had to be one hijacked by the insufferable faggots who opost on the /classical thread at /mu.

[Anonymous No.17080065]

>>17080008
>>17079987
>i didn't call you a fascist I called you pol
Brilliant stuff. Also maybe I'm not obsessed with cuck shit... but here's an idea, the guy who wrote a piece about it is???

[Anonymous No.17080084]

>>17079473
>Advising to study counterpoint from a book written in 1725. You are a pseud.

Imho Salzer's "counterpoint in composition" it's a lot better.

[Anonymous No.17080096]

>>17080065
>I'm not obsessed with cuck shit

[Anonymous No.17080102]

>>17080096
Hey man that's a really good argument. Post another one and then you'll win for sure!

>>17080057
Dilate

[Anonymous No.17080113]

>>17080102
I won the argument 5 posts ago :)

[Anonymous No.17080175]

>>17080113
whatever you have to tell yourself dude

[Anonymous No.17080212]

>>17080057
>taste is subjective but not liking atonal bullshit means the thread is ruined
Good. This thread sucked to begin with. Go to mu and suck shit with the rest of the 90 iq retards there

[Anonymous No.17080431]

>>17079669
These are pretty good, any one else have a list?
inb4 >>>/mu/

[Anonymous No.17080501]

>>17079905
mentally ill desu

[Anonymous No.17080515]

>>17079886
>This makes me want to be a fascist
>your brain is broken
this is what Freud would call pathic projection. seek help you very violent, sick little man.

[Anonymous No.17080535]

>>17080515
>(((Freud)))
Post your nose.

[Anonymous No.17080570]

>>17080535
>The antisemite can't appreciate art and can't understand psychology
Absolutely shocking.

[Anonymous No.17080594]

>>17079669
>Hændel, a sort of anglofied version of Bach
I'd say he's actually more of an italicized version of Bach instead.

Also, all the faggot Schoenberg defenders in here trying to win the debate by posting articles, explaining its complexity or inventiveness, or that it wasn't for the plebs can never get over one simple undeniable fact: HIS MUSIC DOES NOT SOUND GOOD!

[Anonymous No.17080611]

>>17080515
Like I care
*braps thoughtfully in your face*
Oops just made a schoenberg masterpiece for ya heh heh

[Anonymous No.17080618]

>>17080570
>if you don't like serialism you're a fascist
Fucking lol these pseuds just don't quit

[Anonymous No.17080621]

This is now a Terry Riley thread

[Anonymous No.17080640]

>>17078897
check em

[Anonymous No.17080647]

>>17080640
my apologies mods. I thought this was another board. ill go back to my hole now.

[Anonymous No.17080654]

Friendly reminder to love each other anons

[Anonymous No.17080655]

>>17080594
> I'd say he's actually more of an italicized version of Bach instead.
Yes you are actually correct. What I meant was culturally Anglo but his music is most definitely inspired by the Italians rather than the English.

[Anonymous No.17080847]

>>17079669
Jesus fucking Christ everything about that post is so pseud

[Anonymous No.17080859]

>>17080621
TEENAGE WASTELAND

[Anonymous No.17080954]

>>17080847
How faggot?
I litterally just listed good accessible Baroque music for someone who doesn't especially like the genre.
Explain how that's pseud bitch.

[Anonymous No.17081021]

>>17080618
Who the hell are you quoting you insufferable, illiterate autist

[Anonymous No.17081035]

Just came here to confirm that Schoenberg sucks.

[Anonymous No.17081038]

>>17080594
If music "sounding good" was a legitimate way of judging art we would just all be listening to lady gaga and Kesha. It is the equivalent of judging the worth of a lover by the quality of the sex. We're not all barbaric baboons going around looking for the music that "oooo dat sounds so good!"
This isn't even a controversial opinion, trying to elivate your taste beyond basic descriptions such as "this sounds good" "x taste good" or "penis in vagina feels nice" isn't patronizing or elitist, it's just what differentiates us from chimpanzees. But by all means jungle man, keep swimming from tree to tree looking for your preferred coconut whose marvelous notes make your hair tingle, no one's stopping you.

[Anonymous No.17081045]

>>17081038
>lady gaga and Kesha
These don't sound good. Keep coping because you're a failed composer and Schoenberg fanboy.

[Anonymous No.17081051]

>>17081038
> If music "sounding good" was a legitimate way of judging art we would just all be listening to lady gaga and Kesha.
Stopped reading right there.

[Anonymous No.17081056]

>>17081045
>These don't sound good.
filtered

[Anonymous No.17081065]

>>1708104
Well they don't to you but they do to plenty of people. You're refined enough to rightfully dismiss them but criticize me for trying to refine my taste further, it is bizarre but alright.
I've never tried to compose, it doesn't particularly intrigue me, i do prefer litterature to music. I play the piano though, quite well actually :)
Not a schoenberg fanboy however, even he and his followers found faults in his own system. i love bergs music(Lulu is one of my favorite operas) but my true love is for bach and brahms.

[Anonymous No.17081076]

>>17081038
> Nooooooo!!!! You need to marry the ugly woman because she has good character1!111!!!
> well there are lots of other women who have good character and look goo...
> No you don't understand she's complex!111!!! AND HAS GOOD CHARACTER!!!!
cope

[Anonymous No.17081080]

>>17081076
>>17081051
These are very embarrassing responses :)

[Anonymous No.17081090]

>>17081045
Oh okay, you're gonna play the "all popular music sounds bad and only classical sounds good" game, despite the exact reason pop music is so formulaic and successful is that we know exactly what sounds good and that's what sells. This is how you know you're talking with a pseud.

[Anonymous No.17081149]

>>17081090
Not true, you have to be indoctrinated into popular music to actually like it.
That's why sometimes normies can't stand foreign music despite it being the popular music of those foreign cultures.
It's also why boomers can't stand rap and shit and why their parent's couldn't stand rock.
Nobody is pretending, they just don't like it.
Only a few pop artists ever end up transcending these limits due to the sheer quality of their music.
Fucking Ke$ha and Lady Gaga aren't one of them. All they have is mass genre appeal and no technical talent.
Cope.

[Anonymous No.17081165]

>>17075391
Bach: Music in the Castle of Heaven, Gardiner
Une histoire de la musique, Lucien Rebatet

[Anonymous No.17081193]

>>17081149
>>17081149
Do you have a study that proves that humans only find tonal classical music pleasant, while they find all tonal popular music unpleasant? Or are you still basing your arguments on bullshit, biased observations?
>Only a few pop artists ever end up transcending these limits due to the sheer quality of their music.
What quality exactly? The only standard of quality you've established so far is a very vague "it sounds good". If your only standard is sounding good, what are the pop artists you find equal to Bach then?

[Anonymous No.17081243]

>this entire thread

[Anonymous No.17081312]

>>17081193
> Pseud's gonna pseud
Listen faggot, not once did I ever make the statement that humans naturally like Bach or some shit like that. My whole point about certain quality music transcending time and culture is self-evidently true and therefor I will not give any proof of it or some faggy citations to some obscure "study" which is probably wrong anyway. I know this is an anonymous imageboard and that you might have confused me with some other anon but my basic point is this:
> Some music has a lot of good technical qualities which give it "good character" (as embodied in Bach's almost mathematical music).
> Some music is also pleasant to listen to (hence my analogy with the beautiful woman).
> I think Bach's music is like a girl who is both beautiful and has good character.
> I don't generally listen to pop music so most songs sound like ugly women with bad character. I sometimes hear really catchy pop music tho, but it's usually shallow, this is a beautiful woman with bad character.
> You contend that Schoenberg music is technically good but even if that's true his music still sucks so his music is like an ugly woman with (supposedly) good character
I'm not a /mu/sic fag so I'm not going justify anything by saying "oh but there is not enough counterpoint, and no harmony, and blah, blah, blah", that's the whole point of this retarded analogy.
For some reason you are still autistically yelling about how Schoenberg's music had value. Cool that's your opinion, Mine's is that he sucks :-)
tl;dr seethe and cope faggot

[Anonymous No.17081327]

>>17080847
Still haven't explained I'm going to assume that you are either away, asleep, or have nothing to add.
Either way you will always be a complete and utter faggot who needs to kill themselves.

[Anonymous No.17081388]

>>17081312
Oh, nevermind then. I thought you were the other pseud ITT. I actually like your analogy, especially your separation of pleasantness and the technical qualities, so we partly agree. Again, I don't mind people disliking Schoenberg (it is evident why one might dislike him and why he's still so controversial to this day), I do mind idiotic, shallow attemps at criticism such as "this study says there is music that is pleasant so that means its good and your music is bad". So again, I mistook you for another anon, my apologies.

[Anonymous No.17081400]

>>17081388
Cool, we're all good then.
Glad we could work it out.

[Anonymous No.17081510]

I don't have a stake in this autism but just want to note how bizzarre it is to see people who are all about defending western cultural canon from degeneracy and so on to resort to appeal to normie gusto. Yes, your average normie might like Bach's Air than Verklarte Nacht, but more likely he also trivializes Van Eyck for his figures faces resembling Putin, thinks banksy really makes you think, considers Moby Dick whaling encyclopedia, thinks every author in the 19th century was paid by word and that's the reason why the all the novels are so long, listens to WAP. Being conservative and populist is a self defeating position.

[Anonymous No.17081538]

bunch of faggots in this thread desu

[Anonymous No.17081836]

I don't get why people who have an entry level understanding/appreciation of music always try appeal to "beauty" and piss their pants when they hear anything more dissonant than a minor 3rd.

Anyway, here's a beautiful serialist piece for all you pol schmucks.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wuzuv4E-nAE

And here's a piece that was written in a concentration camp (though it's still got some strong western christian values, so you don't have to crack your ideological lens too bad).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtYn_Ddrzao

[Anonymous No.17081927]

>>17081836
> You need an education to know what you like
Really, this meme? You know an education in the arts isn't meant to indoctrinate you into some belief right?
It's meant to give you the tools to express what you already feel. (It can also challenge your beliefs, expose you to new ideas, etc. sure but those are secondary functions.)
Just because you aren't educated (i.e. can't express yourself in a formal way) doesn't mean you don't have something valuable to express.
Most people are confident that two and two make four but can't give, for example, a PM style Logical foundation for that fact.
And no, nobody is pissing their pants when they hear anything more dissonant than a minor 3rd. Most people have heard complex and even dissonant music before, they just have different taste. (the two pieces you gave were ok but uninteresting, a Schubert piece came on afterwards on autoplay and was much better lol)

You are an elitist faggot.

[Anonymous No.17082141]

>>17079151
>I guess periodicals like the New Yorker, the NY Times, or Swarthmores newspaper are trogolodytes too
Yes.

[Anonymous No.17082142]

>>17079001
>tens of millions of views
Not the masses, you're just proving my point that you're retarded.

[Anonymous No.17082155]

>two buttblasted faggots constantly arguing "schonberg poopoo music hurt my ears!!!11" vs. "uhm no achktually mozart already used 12 tone rows checkmate"
yeah great thread guys

[Anonymous No.17082169]

Is he the greatest composer to ever live?

[Anonymous No.17082173]

>>17082169
No.

[Anonymous No.17082253]

>>17082173
Name 1 (one) better and more important other than Beethoven.

[Anonymous No.17082438]

>>17080084
>new good, old bad, can't greentext
Do you really believe that the rules of counterpoint are different today? Would I rather read Fux's book, written in the form of a Platonic dialogue, with humour and wit, or some soulless, contemporary American textbook? Yeah, I'm the pseud.

[Anonymous No.17082632]

>>17082253
Bach

[Anonymous No.17082847]

>>17082142
I am going to lol as you attempt to define the masses in a way that doesn't include all the proles watching those videos

[Anonymous No.17082987]

>>17082253
Chopin