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/lit/ - Literature

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17073124 No.17073124 [Reply] [Original]

can nihilism be refuted without subscribing to religious principles? i fail to see how we could ever discover objective meaning in the universe through scientific findings, for example (unless we found God living on Mars)

>> No.17073153

>>17073124
Do you believe nietzche was a nihilist? In what sense?

>> No.17073158
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17073158

Just read this okay?

>> No.17073164

>>17073153
i only read BGE and Geneology so forgive me if i sound stupid, but how was he not? nihilism is just not believing in objective meaning. he talked about things like individuals being value-creating, which to me seems like it fits in the category of nihilism

>> No.17073174

>>17073158
just dilate okay?

>> No.17073214

>>17073164
I read zarathustra and I thought that there a conversation to be had about whether a person with morals and a strong value system could be called a nihilist. He has a humanist endgame for his life, and that doesn’t seem individually nihilistic to me.

>> No.17073303

>>17073214
i see what you're getting at, but did he ever successfully provide evidence for a metaphysical explanation of reality? that's what i'm concerned about

>> No.17073372

>>17073214
postmodernism is the Nietzschean idea that people create their own meaning from the atheist and Nietzschean idea that there is no meaning about reality.

This is why women and liberals of Nietzsche. Liberals today want to kill the herd mentality of the secular humanists from the enlightenment (but they are okay with keeping their republic), like the fascists such as the Marxists tried and failed.

>> No.17073471

>>17073158
S'pose I shall

>> No.17073500

>>17073164
nihilism is the state of the abscence of truth
nietzche said that nihilism would be overcome when the world evolves to the point where there is no need to overcome nihilism, ie the realization that truth is not necesarry to believe in something or to value something

this is of course always already the case. even the greeks knew objective truth wasnt knowable. eventually thought it will be commonly accepted. we're probably like 200 years away. deepfake and ai and ml tech will destroy any remaining pretensions to truth

>> No.17073514

>>17073500
>deepfake and ai and ml tech will destroy any remaining pretensions to truth
Cringe

>> No.17073527

I discover objective meaning and morals by searching my mind for my opinions.

Yes, my judgement alone is the source of objective morals, and meaning. I am simply THAT arrogant.

>> No.17073583

>>17073527
this feels kinda Nietzschean

>> No.17073593

>>17073514


>Gruug, look i invent round wheel. Now we move more stuff faster and easier and explore new lands and spread our population

>Gruug: Cringe

>> No.17073761

>>17073124
Just a reminder that Nietszche was a severe neurotic who was unable to live without the assistance of people taking care of him. He was so imbalanced and was unable to to see nor know how to heal himself. He also had some weird thing about wanting to be known as Polish and detested anything considered German. Even though his familial record is clearly German. A prime example of some deep seeded Neurosis. He may have been great in some thought and writing but his works reflect something deeply wrong and unsettled. Perhaps we can learn more from this.

>> No.17073796

>>17073761
>some weird thing about wanting to be known as Polish and detested anything considered German.
I'm almost certain most of that was shitposting desu.

>> No.17073860

Yes. That there is something, rather than nothing. It's what kept driving Wittgenstein crazy, that even nihilism isn't enough of an answer to the simple fact things are.

>> No.17073974

nihilism requires faith. problem, that didn't exist to begin with, solved.

>> No.17073982

>>17073593
Your faith is technology and so-called progress is the only cringy thing here lad, given the world.

>> No.17073992

>>17073158
cringe

>> No.17074006

>>17073164
>nihilism is just not believing in objective meaning
So, a nihilist to you is anyone who isn't a Platonist? Seems skewed. Nietzsche believes in value, but his value is will to power, i.e., the non-idealistic, unarrested flux. He rejects the Platonist notion of value, which indeed includes "objective value," but that doesn't stop him from believing in value.

>> No.17074013

>>17073593
what a faggot

>> No.17074021

>>17074006
Imagine still paying rent to that pleb Plato

>> No.17074028

>>17074021
Never did in the first place. He's living rent free in the head of anyone who genuinely thinks Nietzsche is a nihilist, though.

>> No.17074100
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17074100

>>17073124
yes and no
>Whence it appears, how potent is the wise man, and how much he surpasses the ignorant man, who is driven only by his lusts. For the ignorant man is not only distracted in various ways by external causes without ever gaining, the true acquiescence of his spirit, but moreover lives, as it were unwitting of himself, and of God, and of things, and as soon as he ceases to suffer, ceases also to be. Whereas the wise man, in so far as he is regarded as such, is scarcely at all disturbed in spirit, but, being conscious of himself, and of God, and of things, by a certain eternal necessity, never ceases to be, but always possesses true acquiescence of his spirit. If the way which I have pointed out as leading to this result seems exceedingly hard, it may nevertheless be discovered. Needs must it be hard, since it is so seldom found. How would it be possible, if salvation were ready to our hand, and could without great labour be found, that it should be by almost all men neglected? But all things excellent are as difficult as they are rare.

>> No.17074164

>>17074100
yes rationalists like their brain farts because they hate considering that their ideas is jut lust for fantasies too, in order to avoid at all cost seeing they are like the ''ignorant man'' on whom they like to shit so much..

>> No.17074193

>>17074006
look values are either observed and you just have to acknowledge them, or you make them up, turn out values are made up, end of story.

And btw, ''the will to power'' ''unarrested flux'' is just hedonism passed as self righteousness. Artists have been selling cooming being hi class for centuries.

>> No.17074234

>>17074193
>And btw, ''the will to power'' ''unarrested flux'' is just hedonism passed as self righteousness.
So is "objective meaning" and "God." Neither that value system nor the will to power as value system lead to a set of values that regard suffering as unnecessary.

>> No.17074276

>>17073593
>Gruug, look i invent round wheel. Now we move more stuff faster and easier and explore new lands and spread our population

Gruug: To what end do we apply the invention of the round wheel? Why move stuff, explore lands and spread population?

>> No.17074870

>>17073124
What people seem to miss about Nietzsche is how he himself defines nihilism. Nihilism is not just believing in nothing, but believing in a Nothingness. Not just not believing in no values, but valueing that Nothingness.
For example, Nietzsche called Christians nihilists, as they believe in God who was a nothing (as he was not part of this world). For holding the otherworldly nothing in higher regards then the worldly something, they fell into the trap of nihilism. Likewise, a nihilist in the traditional sense, believes in a nothing and puts that nothing he believes in on a pedestal. Him believing in that nothing is more important, to him, than the something there is.

>> No.17075161

when did the term Nihilist come to be?
i dont recall Stirner calling anyone a Nihilist although his writings would have had use of that word if it was around at that point

>> No.17075225

>>17075161
First used in 1737, but in a different context then philosophical. Then philosophically coined around 1790. Of course that says nothing about how widespread the term was around Stirner'S time in the mid 19th century, and Nietzsche's usage of "nihilist" is a completely different definition then what we usually think of when we use the word.

>> No.17075236

>>17073593
>Unironically having faith in technology

>> No.17075353

>nihilism
spook
the concept of meaning of life is neither useful nor insightful, and thinkers should focus on other things.

>> No.17076394

>>17075225
how was it first used?