/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17056804]

charles murray, your friendly antisemitic stemchad just CALCULATED the top 20 western philosophers
rate, hate?

[Anonymous No.17056822]

Among others he also made one of Western Literature. I tend to agree more with the Philosophy one.

[Anonymous No.17056826]

>>17056804
>Russell is even on the list
into the trash.

[Anonymous No.17056828]

>>17056804
How the fuck are Plato and Socrates considered different entities? Why are Rousseau, Fichte, Hobbes and Plotinus on there and Kierkegaard not? Honestly though still a good list. Aristotle over Plato is a shocker though.

[Anonymous No.17056835]

These are from his book titled Human Accomplishment.

[Anonymous No.17056847]

[Anonymous No.17056855]

>>17056847
okay this is horseshit, gooks and dune coons have accomplished more than that lmao

[Anonymous No.17056869]

>>17056828
>How the fuck are Plato and Socrates considered different entities?
Please unironically kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.17056884]

>>17056855
this is your brain on progressivism. sand and sea niggers havent done much to influence civilizations outside of themselves. think about it, who is the one wearing the others blue jeans and listening to their rock music?

[Anonymous No.17056885]

He made these lists by counting the lines of text each person was treated in various encyclopedias from different countries in different languages. The method and the statistsics make most of the book.
>>17056828
>Plato preceded Aristotle, Aristotelian thought owes extensively to Plato, and it was, after all, Plato rather than Aristotle of whom Alfred North Whitehead famously said that all of Western philosophy is his footnote. And yet in the end Aristotle has had the more profound effect on Western culture. Some of Plato’s final conclusions, especially regarding the role of the state, are totalitarian. In contrast, Aristotle’s understandings of virtue, the nature of a civilized polity, happiness, and human nature have not only survived but have become so integral a part of Western culture that to be a European or American and hold mainstream values on these issues is to be an Aristotelian.
>>17056826
>Some anomalies: If Bertrand Russell’s score seems high, the explanation lies in his triple role as a philosopher, logician, and a historian of philosophy. Political thinkers were treated as secondary figures in some of the sources, which affected the scores of Locke, Hobbes, and Rousseau as well as familiar names not part of the top 20 (e.g., Cicero and Machiavelli).

[Anonymous No.17056899]

>>17056804
Marx not on the list, based

[Anonymous No.17056928]

I love his analysis.
>By starting at 1400, the graph misses the great age of classical philosophy, but there was no point in starting earlier. The spike in –4C is so dominant that everything after 1400 is flat—and no wonder. Take Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle, add major figures such as Heraclitus, Parmenides, Anaxagoras, Protagoras, Democritus, and Epicurus, then add the lesser but still significant figures, bunch most of them into a century and a half during –5C and –4C in a Europe that had a population somewhere around 20 million, and you have an accomplishment rate in European philosophy that will dwarf anything that comes after.
>1. The last half of the 1600s provided the philosophical underpinnings of the Enlightenment. Descartes and Bacon had been precursors in the first half of the century. Then, clustered into a few decades, came Hobbes, Pascal, Leibniz, Spinoza, and Locke.
>2 The last two-thirds of the 1700s saw the culmination of the Enlightenment in Montesquieu, Helvetius, Hume, Rousseau, Diderot, and Voltaire and—so close in time that they form one spike in the graph—the philosophers who would set the stage for 19C, Moses Mendelssohn, Condorcet, Herder, Fichte, Bentham, and, towering over all, Kant.

[Anonymous No.17056934]

I feel like Hitler should be on this list. He was a political philosopher and much more important than morons like Kant

[Anonymous No.17056995]

>>17056934
Why is /lit/ so anti-Kantian lately? My hypothesis is that the NRX disease of Moldbug is leaking. He passionately hates Kant. Not surprising regarding his ethnicity. "hey guys, anglos are bad so let's out-anglo the anglos!" won't lead to preferrable places imho

>What separates the Western and Asian philosophy inventories is represented by Kant, standing in third place. In China, the great figures after Confucius and Laozi were their exegetes and reinterpreters. The same was true in India of the great figures after the Upanishads and Buddha—even Sankara was an interpreter of an existing tradition. The West followed that pattern through 17C, with all the great figures drawing substantially from the Platonic or Aristotelian traditions. But then came Kant, whose contributions amounted to an expansion of philosophic thought after the founders that is unique among the three great philosophic traditions. He was followed by the innovative and influential 19C contributions of Hegel, Schopenhauer, and Nietzsche.

[Anonymous No.17057039]

>>17056884
based civ 5 culture winner

[Anonymous No.17057085]

>>17056899
fuck off commie, sieze the means of production and shove it up your ass faggot

[Anonymous No.17057094]

>>17057085
You are il/lit/erate.

[Anonymous No.17057109]

>>17056995
>NRX disease of Moldbug
wait are people seriously acolytes of that dude? he's funny as a meme but you're not supposed to actually take him seriously LOL holy shit I bet the average age of this board is 18-19 at this point

[Anonymous No.17057111]

>>17057094
>call everyone commie
>red scare
>watch the world burn

you playing checkers I'm playing 4d chess

[Anonymous No.17057140]

>>17056804
Calculations and statistics are antiphilosophical. Neither proves anything, and this merely confirms my belief that if murray is simply another retarded bean-counter "social scientist." If not for his habit of saying the quiet part loud, he'd be another tiresome adjunct obsessed with quantifying racial bias.

[Anonymous No.17057153]

>>17057140
t. seething chang. im sorry your country has never produced any thinkers relevant to the rest of the world

[Anonymous No.17057162]

>>17057153

not since confusious and lao szu SEETH

[Anonymous No.17057193]

>>17057153
lol "eastern philosophy" is for pseuds.Trying to equivocate it with philosophy proper is once again, thanks to play-scientists, trying to fit spheres and ellipsoids into square holes.

[Anonymous No.17057199]

>>17056869
Did you create a reverse proof off of the three main influences he had then develop a historicism for this person's life then call him Socrates?

[Anonymous No.17057482]

>>17056855
They havent you are just not properly educated yet.

[Anonymous No.17057625]

>>17057482
They have he just quoted that he skipped their golden ages. Yes if you ignore China inventing gunpowder/paper/magnetic compass etc and Arabs giving numbers, optics, reintroducing philosophy back into the west, algebra, more developed trigonometry, then yea it looks like the whole point of progress was simply euro. This isn't even including sumerians, Persians, Egyptians, hittites (who discovered Iron smelting and tried to keep it a state secret).
That and what the hell is he using as a basis for these numbers? He has a math to quantify quality? Can we get him pronto over to ice skating figures and Nobel literary councils so they can stop sniffing each other's asses?

[Anonymous No.17057912]

>>17056885
>Platos conclusion are authoritarian.
I should read the book again fuck i knew something was off in my memory thanks anon. Apart from that i think the thoughts on the state were pretty on point.

[Anonymous No.17058006]

>>17056804
>Plato 87
>Socrates 26
>Nietzsche so low
>>17056822
>No Cervantes
Who is this faggot anyway?

[Anonymous No.17058033]

>>17056804
I would personally place Hume above Hegel

[Anonymous No.17058072]

>>17056995
>>17057109
>People take seriously someone named Moldbug
These are truly the last days

[Anonymous No.17058151]

[Anonymous No.17058203]

>>17056884
>what is paper
The sheer ignorance is astounding sometimes. Paper was a complete game changer. None of the modern world would have been possible without paper.
Paper alone is such a massively big deal that it's incredible basedboys get away with memeing "muh sliced bread".

[Anonymous No.17058212]

1. Plato
2. Parmenides
3. Aristotle
4. Anaximander
5. Kant
6. Protagoras
7. Hegel
8. Heidegger
9. Hobbes
10. Democritus

[Anonymous No.17058219]

>>17058203
>t. learned history from youtube videos
End yourself.

[Anonymous No.17058220]

>>17058203
>what is papyrus

[Anonymous No.17058238]

>>17056995
/lit/ is anti-kantian because he turned philosophy away from the essentialist make-believe that they like so much

[Anonymous No.17058245]

>>17056804
>Plato behind Aristotle
>Hegel behind Descartes
>Spinoza and Leibniz behind Hume
>Socrates, Schopenhauer, Russell and Rousseau are on the list

I guess Charles Murray is a low IQ individual, we should cut all forms of welfare for his family.

[Anonymous No.17058246]

>>17058238
/lit/ is not anti-kantian you dumb newfag

[Anonymous No.17058253]

>>17056869
We know literally nothing of Socrates' actual theories, apart from what Aristotle told us (almost nothing). Plato's Socrates is fictional

[Anonymous No.17058254]

>>17058245
>>Spinoza and Leibniz behind Hume
Yes.

[Anonymous No.17058260]

>>17058246
I've seen several threads that suggest otherwise. It hardly matters, my point is that the mishimafag and his ilk are against kant because they want to play pretend with racial subconscious or some such nonsense

[Anonymous No.17058267]

>>17058260
Fuck off back to r*ddit

[Anonymous No.17058274]

>>17058238
>nooooo you can't think about philosophy as relevant to life you have to deal with sterile abstractions that only an autist could like nooooooooooo

[Anonymous No.17058280]

>>17058274
If you don't think the post-Kant philosophical milieu is relevant to life then you're not intellectually equipped for it. Stick to your schizoid Italian esotericism.

[Anonymous No.17058283]

>>17057625
The Chinese didn’t invent gun powder, they invented the powder that we would use in the guns we invented. They basically had fireworks and bombs, we revolutionised it.
Paper was not a Chinese invention, their specific method may have been useful to us but the ancient Egyptians were making papyrus scrolls a long time before.
We used the Arabic numerals yes but that’s not like inventing number theory, and the Arabs trading us the Greek b.c Philosophy that they in part made it impossible to us to access because of years of Islamic conquest blocking trade routes isn’t really a blessing considering we still had to make it useful, since you know for a fact that the Arab golden age was like 3 people.

[Anonymous No.17058300]

>>17056804
lmao, that list is awful and kind of contradicts itself.

[Anonymous No.17058314]

>>17057625
>Reintroducing philosophy
When will this meme die?
Medieval Europe had its own scholastic tradition that was on par with the Islamic one
Sandniggers got lucky to get four geniuses back to back but otherwise, they didn't really add anything
There's a reason Islamic Aristotelianism died out so quickly in the Renaissance.
The only ones to introduce any philosophy to the west were Byzamemes with Platonism

[Anonymous No.17058320]

>>17058300
It's not awful, it's just dated. It stops fucking dead at the 20th century, something with which I'm sure the author is completely content.

[Anonymous No.17059285]

>>17058253
and xenophon

and aristophanes

[Anonymous No.17059382]

>>17056995
>>17058246

you are among many anti-kantians. being anti-kantian is easy. you don't have to do any serious thinking to dismiss his moral work, the noumenon/phenomenon distinction is unfortunately a very clever way of introducing god back into the picture, and at this point his categories of understanding are either useless or trivial

[Anonymous No.17059982]

>>17059285
They don't tell us much either. Aristotle said that Socrates mostpy dealt with systematizing moral theories, which convinced Plato of the possibility of fixed concepts and entities (before that he was an Heraclitean). From Xenophon and Aristophanes we get no clue of what that systematic theory looked like.

[Anonymous No.17059997]

>>17056822
where the FUCK is Joyce

[Anonymous No.17060024]

>Russel even on the list
>no Wittgenstein