/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.1703904]

The message of Catcher in the Rye wasn't so specific as people make it out to be. In fact it was a very general message:

the ultimate moral is that living by any one philosophy or basing your decisions on a belief in any one set of stereotypes or ideals leads to disappointment. Basically, that it's important to let things happen without bogging yourself down in trying to look for a deeper meaning or pattern to them.

In that way a lot of people are Holden Caulfield. Because they let their beliefs and convictions become an obsession without actually questioning what they believe, such as Holden's undying belief in the essential two-facedness and hypocrisy of human beings.

[Anonymous No.1703910]

>Implying novels have messages.

[Anonymous No.1703917]

>>1703910

Some are written with a pretty clear subtext, however.

[Brownbear !Wfn4kkpLag!!fEGZw8wphGR No.1703944]

>>1703917
>>1703917
>pretty clear subtext
>clear
>subtext
>authorial intent

[Raj !UkwasiBNaw No.1703957]

>mfw someone makes a decent post on /lit/ and all he gets is trolls

[Brownbear !bzbqrp7Ee2 No.1703958]

>Salinger argues against putting symbols and messages in books
>people still look for symbols and messages in his books

[Anonymous No.1703964]

>>1703957
Yeah, but the problem is that he opens a thread that doesn't invite discussion but rather just states his thoughts in a non-provocative manner.
So there's nothing left to do but troll.

[Anonymous No.1703968]

The important thing to remember is that there are 2 Holden Caufields.

[Brownbear !4h3Ko1lbEE No.1703974]

>>1703957
>decent post
Sounds like he just copied the moral from Candide and tried to apply it to Catcher.

[Anonymous No.1703978]

I think people are wrong if they interpret the book as Salinger being critical of Holden. Holden is a kind, good, loving person. Salinger likes Holden. He just has a bit to learn. The conversation near the end between Holden and his teacher is kind of Salinger giving advice to a kid he really cares about to help him cope with a world where not everyone is as kind and honest as he is. /IMO

[Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ No.1703979]

Yeah great good for you kid this message stuff is a big deal for literary evaluation and can only be projected into literary texts and not just video-games, stones, tv programmes, toasters etc, all of which one can get messages from if one tries hard enough.

Come back when you have something to say about the formal composition of the text

[Anonymous No.1704029]

>>1703944

You seriously think Salinger didn't write with some degree of authorial intent?

Hahahaha oh wow.

[Anonymous No.1704032]

>>1703958

That's sort of the contradiction and the irony in Salinger's works, is he writes in a way that seems like there is a message while at the same time he argues even in his own work that looking for messages in things around you is bollocks.

[Anonymous No.1704042]

I had a teacher once who saw Salinger's short stories in Nine Stories as forming a Buddhist allegory in nine layers.

Salinger's work is very ambiguous and the interpretation probably depends on your mental state or level of sobriety at any given time.

[Brownbear !Wfn4kkpLag!!fEGZw8wphGR No.1704049]

>>1704029
>>1704029
>implying authorial intent matters in the slightest

[Anonymous No.1704053]

>>1703944
You read one book on theory and think you know the lot eh? There's more than one way to skin a cat.

[Brownbear !Wfn4kkpLag!!fEGZw8wphGR No.1704062]

>>1704053
>>1704053
>thinks you need to read a book on theory to disregard authorial intent

[Anonymous No.1704141]

>>1704062
>>1704062
>was clearly born a genius who doesn't need books to learn

nah jk you're a spac

[☿ !Rrxa7zePwI No.1704156]

>>1704141
well he's right. but books are written on the experience of disregarding it.

[Brownbear !Wfn4kkpLag!!fEGZw8wphGR No.1704160]

>>1704141
>>1704141
>he can't make any decisions by himself without reading a book

[Anonymous No.1704161]

Holden was a teenage boy.
He was fickle, childish and putting on a front of toughness There IS no fucking moral or message. The point is that Holden is a lousy shit that needs to be spanked.

[Anonymous No.1704165]

>>1704160
>>1704160
>thinks he's capable of making decisions by himself without external stimuli, FOR EXAMPLE, books

mfw this is fucking ironic when mentioned in an argument against authorial intent

[Brownbear !Wfn4kkpLag!!fEGZw8wphGR No.1704167]

>>1704165
>>1704165
>he has to read a book on authorial intent before making a decision of whether it matters to him or not
>he can't then, after making his personal decision, read up on the subject
>he can't make the decision on whether to cross without reading a book using this logic

[☿ !Rrxa7zePwI No.1704168]

>>1704165
an author's intent can either be a constructed story, as it is in the author of "death of the author", a distinct reading not of the work but of the author writing the work. or it can be the work, which stands on its own as the intended object. this object can either be an experience, a world, a whatthefuckever gesture of something something etc.

dont think too hard on it it's not that complicated.

[☿ !Rrxa7zePwI No.1704178]

>a distinct reading not of the work but of the author writing the work.
this implies that merely thinking about a book does not determine a distinct activity btw. there is such a thing as reading a book without reading it.

[Anonymous No.1704194]

Author's intent is bullshit. Either they managed to get their point across or they didn't. Keep them out of it, either way.

[Anonymous No.1704198]

itt: Idiots that can't hang with the big boys like J.D.

It's ok child, you don't need to get it...just know that it's greater than you can ever hope to achieve.

[☿ !Rrxa7zePwI No.1704200]

>>1704198
>implying i have read catcher or ever intend to.

[Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ No.1704202]

>>1704200
yeah it's not like you come to a literature board to talk about literature or anything

[☿ !Rrxa7zePwI No.1704208]

>>1704202
what do you want to talk about there.

[Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ No.1704233]

>>1704208
If I had my way this board would be restricted to educated individuals discussing the formal qualities of literary texts, and laughing at slaves.

But hey, I'm just the overman what do I know

[Anonymous No.1704269]

Holden is a very entertaining character. The most entertaining teenager in American literature since Huck Finn. Just not as likeable as Huck. But I do agree with the poster who said Salinger liked Holden. He made him a good guy in a bad world.

[☿ !Rrxa7zePwI No.1704272]

>>1704233
text centric and too restrictive.

[Anonymous No.1704289]

>>1704272
God forbid a board about literature actually be about literature

[Deep&Edgy !pSkjEcB9sQ No.1704295]

>>1704272
>wants to talk about literary texts on a literature board
>accused of being text centric