/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.17017761]

my dad told me he finished it after 10 years lmao

[Anonymous No.17017780]

>>17017761
The point the book makes is not worth the endless pages of complete gibberish it revels in.

[Anonymous No.17017799]

>>17017780
I kinda agree, even though I liked it. He didn't need to jump through so many hula hoops to drive home the point. Part 4 is unintelligible.

[Anonymous No.17017800]

>>17017780
What exactly is the point in your opinion?

I love the book and think there’s no real “moral” or whatever the fuck to it.

[Anonymous No.17017919]

>>17017800
About how people are just cogs in a big capitalistic (war) machine and can't escape I guess.

[Anonymous No.17017935]

the book is shit

[Anonymous No.17017966]

>>17017761
Is it ok i skip the first part? I heard it’s get more sober in the second part of the novel. I mean i like his prose but i want to under what im reading

[Anonymous No.17018024]

>>17017935
Why?

[Anonymous No.17018051]

>>17017966
If you aren’t going to bother reading it why don’t you just read the wikipedia page

[Anonymous No.17018066]

>>17017800
dawn of nuclear age anxiety and the total instrumentalization of human beings for corporatized warfare

[Anonymous No.17018074]

>>17018024
it's his worst book

[Anonymous No.17018078]

>>17017966
No

[Anonymous No.17018081]

>>17018051
What do you mean? You know what out of spite im going to read from cover to cover just to spite you, you milky licker

[Anonymous No.17018092]

>>17018081
Good for you man

[Anonymous No.17018100]

>>17018074
Not even fucking close. It's top 3.

[Anonymous No.17018112]

>>17018081
That'll show him

[Anonymous No.17018124]

>>17018100
it's shit

[Anonymous No.17018160]

>>17018124
Why?

[Anonymous No.17018163]

>>17017919
I’d say it’s just more reflective of reality in that way than most literature (or people & their corresponding viewpoints) like to admit.

[Anonymous No.17018174]

mason and dixon was way better.

[Anonymous No.17018269]

>>17017761
I’m on page 250 rn. I failed around page 400 last time. It is definitely the hardest book I’ve read and I’ve read Moby-Dick, The Sound and the Fury, Absalom, Absalom!, Lolita, Pale Fire, and even read Lot 49 before this.

So far this is basically what I get
>Slothrope is a low-level American soldier involved with military intelligence in Europe (mostly England?) who sleeps around a lot. People in military intelligence start realizing that V-2 missiles are bombing the sites of his conquests pretty soon after he does the deed (anywhere from a few hours to 3-4 days later). Military intelligence people then assume that his cumming cannot possibly be the real thing that is causing the missiles to be dropped, so he must have some kind of unconscious trigger that he senses that makes him horny and want to get laid in that specific location, so they figure if they can just figure what it is that is causing his response, they can prevent the missiles coming? And Slothrope is not aware of his precognition abilities. Also he was conditioned as a baby to have a Pavlovian response (arousal) to some kind of stimuli and that’s why his sexual exploits are tied to the V-2, they just can’t figure out why.
>Pirate Prentice is a British soldier who cooks bananas and he is somehow also involved with military intelligence and knows about slothrope? I’m iffy on who he is.
>Roger Mexico is an American soldier and statistician trying to track and predict the dropping of the V-2s. He is also in love with a British chick, Jessica Swanlake, who has another man she’s involved with called the Beaver (???). There love is in some way very melancholy and essentially doomed. One gets the feeling they will not have a happy ending, but I find the sections concerning their relationship very beautiful.
>later, Slothrope falls in love with a Dutch girl, Katje Borgesius, who is involved with the Germans somehow but is not sympathetic to them, just trying to survive (I think??). And also she is a plant placed by Pirate to try to control Slothrope??? I can’t remember this shit. Also she is involved with Blicero and an African twink who she has really gross kinky threesomes with. Also she’s the sominatrix that shits in the old guys mouth??? (Missed that last time) But she uses her dominatrix name?
what is the white visitation? Who is Pointsman again? Just an intelligence guy/Pavlovian scientist tracking Slothrope? Who is Caroll Evynter (I know he’s some sort of spiritual medium) and what is his significance to the war? Also what is the deal with Katje seducing Slothrope at the casino and on the beach? What are They hoping to accomplish with her?

I think it’s really good in the parts I understand. The Roger/Jessica parts, when they go to the evensong service, that shit was beautiful. Also I.G. FARBEN? It’s some sort of tech/industrial company positioned to make a profit from the war no matter who wins? And they are involved with manufacturing the V-2?

[Anonymous No.17018279]

>>17018269
you've just reminded me how many characters pynchon introduces and then does nothing else with for literally 700 pages

[Anonymous No.17018301]

>>17017919
Fairly entry level analysis.

[Anonymous No.17018309]

>>17018301
u got nothing

[Anonymous No.17018312]

>>17018174
I agree.
>>17018269
Cool cover
>>17018301
Well, he was asked to sum up the main point, I think he succeeded. The book has some other things too obviously.

[Anonymous No.17018357]

>>17018312
It’s my favorite cover although the original edition is cool too

[Anonymous No.17018370]

>>17018269
You've basically got it, a lot of what you mentioned starts to make more sense later in the book. The White Visitation is the name of the organization of allied scientists, psychologists, mystics, etc. working on different propaganda projects, including the plan to take advantage of Slothrop's conditioned penis reaction. Not all of them are on the same page, Pointsman has his own agenda independent of what the allied governments are funding him for. IG Farben was a real company, you can look them up. I think their role in the book is to be a stand-in for 20th century technocracy in the abstract sense.

[Anonymous No.17018454]

>>17018309
>>17018312
"War being bad" isn't really a point to be made about a novel about war. Seems fairly inherent if you're not a sociopath.
There's a litany of biblical reference in the story and the structure of the novel. The constant symbolism Pynchon employs from the very beginning (ouroboros, the number twelve, the glass palace) all signify a very deep, spiritual meaning of this novel.
We see Slothrop as a sort of inverted Christ figure, set at odds against a vast military industrial complex who, through both sides of the war, afflict Slothrop with spiritual tests via temptation and degradation.
One of the keys to this book lies in the Anubis boat scene, where he have delegates from all over the world that compose a borderless brotherhood named after the Egyptian god of Death.

[Anonymous No.17018499]

>>17017780
it's not about making a point, peak pseud lmao

[Anonymous No.17018501]

>>17018454
>"War being bad" isn't really a point to be made about a novel about war.
that's not what he said so i'm ending this reading of your post here

[Anonymous No.17018503]

>>17018501
Pseud.

[Anonymous No.17018514]

>>17018269
It's not that much harder than Absalom tho...

[Anonymous No.17018521]

>>17018499
>>17018503
Screeching pseud doesn't help your point, maybe conduct yourself with IQ over 80.
>>17018454
Any good texts about all the symbolism?

[Anonymous No.17018524]

The entire scope of the novel is symbolized by the relation between T.S.'s ultra-paradoxical phase erection and the supersonic V-2. "Yang and Yin", whispers the Voice. . . . Oh, and Pynchon is a quarter-Jewish potheaded 60's boomer-lib that has an outright hatred for Christian Europe and White America.

[Anonymous No.17018535]

>>17018521
yeah but there's much more to it than what anon said, it's so entry level of an analysis it's almost directly pulled from a sentence in it.

[Anonymous No.17018542]

>>17018524
>Oh, and Pynchon is a quarter-Jewish potheaded 60's boomer-lib that has an outright hatred for Christian Europe and White America
This is true but he's a skilled enough writer that I can finish his books anyway

[Anonymous No.17018547]

>>17018524
yawn

[Anonymous No.17018551]

>>17018535
Be quiet, you filthy ESL.

[Anonymous No.17018559]

>>17018514
Absalom repeated the same story of Sutpen over the parts though, just from different perspectives, so I found it easier because I could recognize when things were being replayed and it was just from a different perspective.

[Anonymous No.17018562]

>>17018524
Pynchon has never been confirmed for Jewish. He's mostly Anglo. He's a Protestant.

[Anonymous No.17018567]

>>17018100
It's by far the best. Stop with this contrarianism.

[Anonymous No.17018575]

>>17018547
incisive retort

[Anonymous No.17018578]

>>17018551
Textbook pseud

[Anonymous No.17018584]

>>17017780
>the point the book makes
Imagine reading novels for the points they make. Go read some philosophers, their books make plenty of points. Stay away from novels and poety though

[Anonymous No.17018592]

>>17018301
No shit. It's not even an analysis. If a 700 page could be summed up in 3 lines then Pynchon would be a hack not an eminent writer.

[Anonymous No.17018593]

Point of the novel: It's all theatre.
Literally as simple as that. Lays it down from the first page. We've regressed back to Plato's cave, from a time in history where the American Transcendental and European Theosophical movements were gaining traction, and people were opening themselves spiritually, but then two world wars came to set us back, all concocted in the minds of those priesthoods that hold monopoly over our souls. A good reading of this book should really tear down all your perceived notions about what reality and history truly are.
It's a terrifying novel, really.

[Anonymous No.17018596]

>>17018592
Calm your ESLness down a little, Shanjay.

[Anonymous No.17018616]

>>17018593
Also, please, new /lit/ tourist zoomers, read more things before you tackle my precious GR.
I don't want to think of you people going out in the world and sullying the reputation of this novel by spewing out your braindead, tepid nonsense that only aims to impress others.

[Anonymous No.17018617]

>>17017799
FILTERED
I
L
T
E
R
E
D

[Anonymous No.17018619]

>>17018592
You do know the book actively resists being interpreted linearly like that right? Like to the point where even attempting to analyze it as a set of events leading to a final point clearly demonstrates you have no idea what is going on

[Anonymous No.17018623]

>>17018562
A lot of his upholders un the academia are jewish and his friends. Benny was half Jewish and based on Pynchon himself

[Anonymous No.17018626]

>>17018562
His mother was half-Jewish converted to Roman Catholic (very common those days) that married a Protestant. Also, have you read V.? What do you think "V." really was? A name? a number? Well certainly not a Roman numeral. And why in the first reference of "V." was she claimed to have "vanished" . . . ?

[Anonymous No.17018632]

>>17018623
Esther's nosejob was based on a woman who broke up with him because he wasn't jewish. Settle down, incel

[Anonymous No.17018635]

>>17018623
So? Pynchon writes a lot about Kabbalah. Of course Jews love their Jewy stuff showing up in their Great American Novels.

[Anonymous No.17018638]

>>17018596
Nice argument. Nigger!

[Anonymous No.17018647]

>>17018592
>700 page book must have 700 page summary
no honey it's called abstraction

[Anonymous No.17018656]

>>17018638
t. short, ugly and pudgy Indian man

[Anonymous No.17018660]

>>17018632
Why are you so triggered? Why would it matter even if he is Jewish? Its not a crime

[Anonymous No.17018663]

>>17018632
source

[Anonymous No.17018672]

>>17018660
You sound like another Jew trying to claim Pynchon as theirs again. I see it all the time. They even try to argue that Shakespeare and Joyce were Jewish too.

[Anonymous No.17018682]

>>17018647
I never said that. That guy asked for the book's overarching message not some symbolic analysis. You are acting like having a clear cut message somehow degrades the book.

[Anonymous No.17018687]

>>17018672
Hell, I even see a Jewish lady down the street who owns a shop tell everyone that she's a "POC" by claiming 1/4th Indian blood! The local papers called her a "Native American Business Owner."
The Jews know no bounds to what they'll fib about to gain traction!

[Anonymous No.17018688]

>>17018656
t.BBC loving nigger pseud

[Anonymous No.17018691]

>>17018660
>Why would it matter even if he is Jewish? Its not a crime

[Anonymous No.17018693]

>>17018660
not yet

[Anonymous No.17018705]

Also should be noted that the Kabbalah isn't Jewish in origin.
Another part of the theatre.

[Anonymous No.17018713]

>>17018617
C R I N G E
R
I
N
G
E

[Anonymous No.17018727]

>>17018713
>>/v/

[Anonymous No.17018734]

>>17018727
>Newfag

[Anonymous No.17018743]

>>17018688
>hello hello thomas greetings from india! i am writing to you to tell you that your book is very big and i think war is bad too! ive even told some white women on instagram that ive been readin your book and so far no sex yet but i am still trying. i wish you could write me back with a summary of this 700 page novel because it is hard to read and especially for someone like me from india.

[Anonymous No.17018757]

>>17018567
Mason and Dixon as rated as highly as Gr

[Anonymous No.17018767]

>>17018672
I couldn't care less what Pynchon's ethnicity was. He does have some affinity for Jewishness though.

[Anonymous No.17018799]

>>17018767
don't tell /pol/

[Anonymous No.17018802]

>>17018757
On here. Nowhere else

[Anonymous No.17018803]

>>17018767
He likes Kabbalah (which is really just Neoplatonic thought in an Abrahamic mode).

[Anonymous No.17018809]

>>17018802
yeah well we're generally right, so

[Anonymous No.17018819]

>>17018802
M&D is better than GR because it's more of a human story set amid a grand historical change and less of a laborious technical exercise to present various material developments that happen to be reflected in characters

[Anonymous No.17018823]

>>17017761
I'm on page 640 and I have to say the hype around is difficulty is a bit overblown. If your English is good and you come at it with an open mind you can understand what's going on episode by episode quite easily. Sure there are the weird dream like moments that go on for pages but they're some of the most intense and beautiful sections of the book.

[Anonymous No.17018841]

>>17018823
I was speed-reading it by the end because it's so fucking long, but I still think short of a Finnegans Wake gibberish scenario this book is in the top tiers of difficulty. He never pains himself to clearly tell you what is happening. Almost everything is indirect.

[Anonymous No.17018849]

>>17018841
stop speed reading it

[Anonymous No.17018865]

>>17018743
NIGGER.
PSEUD.
>wow! Completing this book is my life's greatest achievement! I must now take to spreading my diarrhea everywhere i feel the book is not being seen as the GOAT.
>AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH! DON'T TALK WHAT THE BOOK IS ABOUT! ONLY ANSWER WITH 1000 WORD PSEUD ANALYSIS THAT NOBODY ASKED FOR!
>What do you mean by premise? No premise for you, ONLY 1000 WORD PSEUD ANALYSIS! DID I MENTION THAT I JUST FINISHED THIS BOOK?
Pathetic.

[Anonymous No.17018869]

>>17018841
>speed-reading
Why even pick up the book if you're not going to enjoy it? lmao

[Anonymous No.17018876]

>>17018819
Don't say that here. A little kid here is angry that people don't write essays when talking about GR.

[Anonymous No.17018883]

>>17018849
>>17018869
Feel free to disregard my post if the techniques discussed therein are over your cognitive threshold.

[Anonymous No.17018901]

>>17018865
Last weekend I had sex with a pale 19 year old with a short, black-dyed pixie cut, with a slim, petite body, rather shapely, perky breasts with dime-sized pink nipples, and a tight pussy.
This comes with the power of a being a tall, lanky, white boy, Shanjay.
Maybe if you make an offering to Shiva, then you can have sex with a white woman too.

[Anonymous No.17018918]

>>17018883
You're not even reading, you retard. I doubt you retained anything.
You're such a pseud. Kindly end yourself.

[Anonymous No.17018926]

>>17018883
it's clearly over yours

[Anonymous No.17018940]

>>17018901
This sounds like a lot of projection to me. Where did you even get the idea that i was indian?
Are you a pajeet trying to cope with a made up online identity?
Wouldn't put that past you.

[Anonymous No.17018949]

>>17018802
Goodreads, Bloom also said it's his best etc.

[Anonymous No.17018954]

>>17018940
The backtracking ain't working, Shanjay.

[Anonymous No.17018981]

>>17018918
>>17018926
You're mad because I can do things you cant, but that's just your egos talking. Keep reading and one day you may unlock similar talents within yourselves.

[Anonymous No.17018989]

>>17018954
Backtracking? Do you even know the meaning of this word?
For someone claiming to follow and interpret GR, you don't seem like someone who could follow a chain of rather straightforward responses.
Sucks being a low IQ nigger. Not that i would know!
>Inb4 p-p-projecting haha...

[Anonymous No.17018997]

>>17018981
You've never had sex.

[Anonymous No.17019015]

>>17018989
Ah, the cope of a man who lives in a country where everyone smells like BO and cumin, where the streets are marked by a thousand lonely shits, and the women teeter on the anxiety of getting gang-raped while they walk along the miserable boardwalks in those terrible shantytowns.

[Anonymous No.17019056]

>>17019015
Here it comes...

PROJECTION!
10 bucks say you are a self hating Indian.
OR even worse you are a whiteboy who some-fucking-how got cucked by an Indian. Explains bringing pajeets in it for no fucking reason.

[Anonymous No.17019068]

I'm on about page 300 and I'm in absolute love with this book. The sheer exuberance, the vitality, the jolliness of it mixed with the cold creeping paranoia. In its universalism, it reminds me a lot of Shakespeare. Every page is a banquet.

[Anonymous No.17019070]

>>17019056
You're not fooling anyone, ESL-jeet.

[Anonymous No.17019077]

>>17019056
Reminder that the Yogi who washes his body every day in the fetid corpse water of the Ganges gets more pussy than you ever will, Pajeet.

[Anonymous No.17019095]

>>17018593
>perceived notions about what reality and history truly are
moldbug did that

[Anonymous No.17019097]

>>17019070
You seem to know a lot about tracking indians down on the web, mr. Pajeet-detective.
I wonder why?

[Anonymous No.17019105]

>>17019077
Who hurt you?

[Anonymous No.17019107]

>>17018593
>American Transcendental and European Theosophical movements

[Anonymous No.17019108]

>>17019095
Ah, yes, he did do that, yes, in a novel that was published the same year he was born.
>>17019097
It's because you type English like a fucking retard, and it's obvious you're ESL.

[Anonymous No.17019112]

>>17017761
Just finished V. and loved it. Kinda feel like I shot myself in the foot by making that the first Pynchon book I read because it was challenging and I want to build myself up to GR. But it sounds like it’s gonna be difficult either way. What should I read next? Mason & Dixon? Lot 49?

[Anonymous No.17019119]

>>17019107
Yes, those movements did reach the higher echelons of both of those cultures. Even Hitler had a copy of The Secret Doctrine that he kept by his bedside.
Why just post a frog instead of discussing? Are you one of those I FUCKING LOVE SCIENCE pseuds who can't into anything esoteric?

[Anonymous No.17019126]

>>17018949
>Goodreads
Kek. With what, like 9000 ratings?
Bloom's opinion isn't widespread, apart from being subjective of course.

[Anonymous No.17019134]

>>17019112
chronological order

[Anonymous No.17019154]

>>17019119
Bro, even a moron like Guenon saw it necessary to extricate himself from the Theosophical Society, because he could see them for the syncretists they were. Worthless pseudery.

[Anonymous No.17019160]

>>17018997
I've never seen a slow reader have this bad of a meltdown.

[Anonymous No.17019161]

>>17019108
>All ESLs are pajeets
Alright!
>Types English like a retard
Go ahead, point it out for me. Fucking nigger. This coming from a guy who doesn't even know what backtracking means.

[Anonymous No.17019183]

>>17019154
>muh Geunon
I'm not saying Theosophy was a good thing... in fact, their Doctrine has already won in this world.
And no, it's not "worthless pseudery." I can tell you already have a clear and concise opinion on the matters of Esoteric thought, that you're in the Sufi, Anti-Zionist camp. Nothing wrong with that, but please consider the reasoning of the team you're opposing.

[Anonymous No.17019237]

>>17019161
Tell your friends to stop stinking up the buses every morning on the way to class.

[Anonymous No.17019266]

>>17019237
All my friends are white.
>Crack in the facade
You are not very smart.

[Anonymous No.17019272]

>>17019266
Okay, sure there, Shanjay.

[Anonymous No.17019299]

>>17019272
A N O N I S A P R O J E C T I N G N I G G E R.

[Anonymous No.17019319]

>>17019299
Can I get an order of samosas, please?

[Anonymous No.17019350]

>>17019319
What's that?
>Another crack in the facade
Is trying to understand GR a form of cope for your unmistakably low IQ? No wonder you are so defensive.

[Anonymous No.17019364]

>>17019350
Samosas, Shanjay! Your family fries up the best.

[Anonymous No.17019406]

>>17019364
I googled it, the crust looks nice ngl.
I can't supply that, but i can supply rat poison. I've gotta feeling that'd be of more use.....to your family ofc, and probably your neighbors too.

[Anonymous No.17019424]

>>17019406
Of course an Indian has rat poison.

[Anonymous No.17019444]

>>17019424
Ofc you wouldn't know that other countries have rat poison too.
>Indian gif
Yet another crack. Why do you hate yourself so much?

[Anonymous No.17020163]

>>17018841
This is just a lie. The English is not that complex it's not comparable to FW whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.17020337]

>>17020163
Agreed. It's hard to keep track of the overarching plot but the moment to moment scenes are pretty clear. The language isn't hard like FW, it's just the web-like structure that's a challenge

[Anonymous No.17020361]

>>17020163
>>17020337
OK, stay wrong

[Anonymous No.17020387]

>>17017761
Took me 14y to finish Ulysses
Did take a 13y break after the 2nd chapter

[Anonymous No.17020459]

>>17020361
I can see what you're saying about indirectness. It feels like you get given ten different scenes that vaguely allude to the plot and you have to work out what details are actually relevant. He overwhelms you with 100 characters and you never know if it's a one off appearance or if they become important.

I suppose I didn't find it too 'difficult' because I don't tend to get too hung up on memorising every detail with Pynchon, I just let the absurdities flow over me and enjoy getting lost in the mystery.