/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16992796]

Was the garden real or just a metaphor?

[Anonymous No.16992806]

>>16992796
Metaphor

[Anonymous No.16992808]

>>16992796
Everything in the Bible really happened. Have faith and you will be saved.

[Anonymous No.16992847]

>>16992796
Illusion

[Anonymous No.16992862]

>>16992847
Ah, so apple was just antidote to get them off their trip.

[Anonymous No.16992919]

Both.

[Anonymous No.16992922]

>>16992796
Both

[Anonymous No.16992931]

>>16992922
explain

[Anonymous No.16993054]

>>16992931
>>16992931
Not him, but there is no "literal" narration of history in general. All narratives of history are extreme abstractions based on categories of meaning, such as "states". States are not a structure of matter, but units of meaning. A state exists when people agree that something means a state to them.
That a "German armies attacked Poland" is both literal and metaphoric, because yeah, it's just a way of saying that people self-organized by particular features on an area they understood as their place had a bunch of other self-organized peoples coming in... but it's also literal to you when you understand that that's what states are and what an invasion is.

TLDR: History doesn't describe the 1000000000 facts that actually happened, but (necessarily inaccurately) condenses facts to a couple of categories that inform you well enough for action. Genesis does that.

[Anonymous No.16993078]

>>16992796
...it was about sex, right?

[Anonymous No.16993099]

yeah.....the garden of eden never existed.

[Anonymous No.16993100]

>>16992796
How is metaphor contrasted with truth? Can metaphor not be truth? This is a fundie literalist tier understanding of scripture, that even the fathers of the church attacked.

[Anonymous No.16993102]

>>16993054
>everything is true, bro, cause everything is false
whoa....

[Anonymous No.16993134]

>>16993102
If that is your best understanding of validity of abstractions, thank you for trying.

[Anonymous No.16993142]

>>16993078
Freud, is that you?

[Anonymous No.16993147]

>>16993078
It was about puberty, so yeah, sexuality was in the mix. They were quite embarrassed about nakedness, after all, Adam probably felt bad about his tiny dick and Eve wished the invention of breast implants wasn't so far away.

[Anonymous No.16993214]

>>16992796
Real, the universe doesn't make sense unless it happened for real.

[Anonymous No.16993220]

>>16992862
yeah, and to think for themselves

[Anonymous No.16993233]

obviously. how the fuck is this a question?

[Anonymous No.16993245]

>>16993214
explain

[Anonymous No.16993257]

>>16992796
I’m posting from eden, if god loved you you’d be here already

[Anonymous No.16993261]

>>16993134
>validity of abstractions
no, what you did actually was shove a bunch of trite post modernisms to argue genesis was an abstraction, validity was assumed from the start
you're a few years late for this jordan peterson larp

[Anonymous No.16993285]

How is it that there are so many parallels between this story and human evolution? How could they have known adaptations to so many specific things played a role in us becoming human? It lines up in so many ways.

[Anonymous No.16993293]

>>16993261
>validity [of Genesis] was assumed from the start
My post elaborated on how OP's question is loaded, not on what proves validity of Genesis.
>late for this jordan peterson larp
Noo, I really wanted to live action role play as Jordan Peterson. Darn, mothertrucker, dude...

[Anonymous No.16993298]

>>16993285
The stories are supposedly describing how universe works across different scales. The more accurate the symbolism, the more ways it lines up across different frames - developmental, evolutional, political ...

[Anonymous No.16993309]

>>16992796
A metaphor for a real phenomenon, so both

[Anonymous No.16993327]

>>16993293
>My post elaborated on how OP's question is loaded, not on what proves validity of Genesis.

asking if something happened is a loaded question
peak postmodernism

[Anonymous No.16993330]

>>16993257
anon, God called, He says that was just a quick tour to cover maintenance expenses and no one told you you could stay. He wants you to vacate premises by the end of the week or He's getting the flaming sword out of the storage, that is if Mary didn't throw it out with the rest of the garbage.

[Anonymous No.16993339]

>>16992796
Eve plucked the apple and offered it to Adam and Adam thought: what if we made machines to automate the apple-plucking process?
The industrial revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race...

[Anonymous No.16993346]

>>16993309
the real phenomen being..?

[Anonymous No.16993363]

>>16993327
You left out half of his question, but if you're trying this hard, I think the benevolent thing to do is just let you have your ego validation.
Sure thing, my dude. I tried to convince people things happening is loaded. You got me! Hehe...

[Anonymous No.16993366]

>>16993298
But how could they have known snakes, fruit, and female sexual pressure all played a role? How did they know women used to be less biomechanically and physiologically burdened by the capability of childbirth? How did they know we didn’t have to eat shit out if the dirt beforehand?

[Anonymous No.16993442]

>>16993363
>You left out half of his question
yea, the other half of his question was extreme charity, it could have easily been replaced with "or is it a lie?"
i understand now, at this point, that your problem is a deep seated, negative emotional reaction to seeing the bible described as potentially lacking truth content where you assign meaning

[Anonymous No.16993459]

>>16993366
Did making woman out of a rib play a role? Did naming animals? Genesis uses very immediate symbolism. They used snakes because we are evolutionally conditioned to associate snakes with danger. They used fruit because we are evolutionally conditioned to find fruit in trees attractive. I think that in this particular case evolution is the confound variable of them choosing these symbols.

[Anonymous No.16993466]

>>16993346
The phenomenon of when the species' intellect became conscious of morality / our own unique consciousness in the animal kingdom.

[Anonymous No.16993469]

>>16993442
>If I change the question then your answer doesn't apply.
Hehe, you got me. My bad...

[Anonymous No.16993503]

reposting something some wise anon posted a while ago

[Anonymous No.16993547]

>>16992796
Are pokemon real?

[Anonymous No.16993559]

>>16993466
does sin exist?

[Anonymous No.16993561]

>>16993469
>Hehe, you got me. My bad...
no problem buddy, it happens to all of us at some point, just make sure you work on your confidence so you can articulate ideas next time without folding

[Anonymous No.16993569]

>>16993561
Hehe, yes, anon, you got me, be validated.

[Anonymous No.16993579]

>>16993330
Squater's rights!

[Anonymous No.16993602]

>>16993569
>Hehe, yes, anon, you got me, be validated.
validated in what? im getting a little confused now tbqh

[Anonymous No.16993635]

>>16993602
I suggest you do some introspection then. To an outside observer it is quite obvious that you sought validation for your ego by pretending you're smarter than someone, even when it took fallacies to achieve this perception.
No hate, I mean this. Take some mushrooms and then inspect the difference between your claimed motivation and your actual motivation. Start with what makes you legitimise "if I change the question, your answer no longer applies lol" as an argument. Again, no judgement, just sharing.

[Anonymous No.16993680]

>>16993559
Yes

[Anonymous No.16993688]

>>16992796
Real

[Anonymous No.16993721]

>>16993635
interesting, i will take your recommendation to use drugs to fix my problems seriously
i have some advice for you as well
on 4channel.org you should probably not take things too personally, and if someone is mocking your idea, you shouldn't assume that they are trying to feel superior to you as a person
it is an anonymous board after all, you are free to express points of view and opinions in a way that has no relationship to your identity, you can switch what side of an argument you are on halfway through a thread
i think if you exercise regularly, lose weight (or gain some muscle if you are a skeleton), and perhaps do some martial arts, it will help you build confidence in yourself so that you wont immediately assume any challenge to you is an assault on your self worth, or that the other person is trying to feel superior to you, etc
i hope you succeed in depersonalizing your posting behavior

[Anonymous No.16993761]

>>16993721
>to use drugs
yeah well that was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek, but it did pay off to me to inspect my subconsciousness with psychedelics...
>you shouldn't assume that they are trying to feel superior to you as a person
Well then what do you think motivated you? I know when I did things like these they were ultimately based in me trying to flash my intellect. So you didn't personally hurt me, I just happen to have been behaving like this many, many, many times before reflecting. But hey, you wanna do nothing, I'm not forcing you, it's just a suggestion. I'll validate you all the same.

[Anonymous No.16993990]

>>16993761
i would say the urge to mock ideas originates in perceiving a lack of quality or thoroughness in the idea, my self worth or ego doesn't enter the picture
your language continues to dwell on ego, being hurt personally, intellect, validation... i think you might need to consume more drugs since the last batch might not have brought you far enough to your intended endpoint

[Anonymous No.16994027]

>>16993990
No.

[Anonymous No.16994077]

>>16993990
That's what people like to think of themselves.
>I do this because I value truth, goodness, beauty etc. I am a good and smart, person.
But again, if you got here via "Your answer would be flawed if the question was different, gotcha", I strongly suggest introspection on matter of declared vs actual motivation.
My suggestion only get stronger with this:
>>it's not about you personally, it's just about ideas
>you, personally, have confidence issues
>you, personally, need to work on your behavior
>take more drugs lol

Again, I know where you're coming from, I'll still validate you.
People talk down on others due to idea quality. Sure, it's not due to ego, hehe. Your self-esteem needs no validation at all. You are smart for noticing an answer doesn't apply to various questions at once. Nice!

[Anonymous No.16994308]

>>16994077
>Again, I know where you're coming from, I'll still validate you.
>People talk down on others due to idea quality. Sure, it's not due to ego, hehe
peak irony
>You are smart for noticing an answer doesn't apply to various questions at once
this never happened, btw, you might be having a psychotic break (be careful with drugs, kids)

[Anonymous No.16994385]

>>16994308
>>You are smart for noticing an answer doesn't apply to various questions at once
>this never happened

meanwhile in >>16993442
>>16993442
>>You left out half of his question
>yea

I don't even know how to validate you anymore. Hehe you can joke about drugs I guess...? Lol

[Anonymous No.16994425]

>>16994385
pointing out that you ignored the first half of his question isnt a new question, its drawing attention to your failure to address the OP... teeheehee ;^)

[Anonymous No.16994436]

>>16994425
> ;^)
Valid!

Anyway, thanks for legitimizing my objection by trying to throw it back at me just now... "You left out half of his question"... I didn't expect that. My bad.

[Anonymous No.16994450]

>>16994436
thats okay, you can still attempt to answer it if you're up to the task

[Anonymous No.16994580]

>>16992796
Both

[Anonymous No.16995059]

Loving God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength.
Loving your neighbor as yourself.
Also probably Eden is the start of river valley civilizations

[Anonymous No.16995145]

>>16992796
symbol of the mass hypnosis generated by word, the path of monkey to self to awareness through suffering in formed as narrative.

[Anonymous No.16996081]

>>16992796
Metaphors are real.

[Anonymous No.16996288]

>>16993261
>jordan peterson larp
This is the mind of someone who lives solely on memes

[Anonymous No.16996420]

>>16992796
Allegory, everything is.

[Anonymous No.16996439]

>>16992796
Whether it was or not, the story correctly states that there was a cognitive revolution in humanity that resulted in a very mixed bag of results.
And yet that moron Harari pretends he's onto something new and special when he says so in his books

[Anonymous No.16996458]

>>16992847
reality is based on metaphors

[Anonymous No.16996521]

>>16996081
i mean in a historical sense

[Anonymous No.16996566]

>>16996458
> um, start with the greeks. Plato's cave clearly demonstrates a reality without metaphor
That he explained, with a metaphor

[Anonymous No.16996700]

>>16993054
States are social constructs, not metaphors. There is a massive fucking difference. States and Nations as we conceptualize them DO materially compel the behavior of the humans of that era. On the other hand to consider Genesis a metaphor is to fundamentally accept that it is not history.

[Anonymous No.16996715]

>>16993100
see >>16993102

[Anonymous No.16996793]

>>16992796
It's a metaphor for hyperborea.

[Anonymous No.16996820]

>>16993547
wat. Are you trying to say that the bible is fiction on purpose or did you just self own yourself?

[Anonymous No.16996892]

the bible is mythology up until Samuel, then it becomes historical fiction

[Anonymous No.16997028]

>>16993134
>bro bro bro you don't get it the omnipotent omnipresent benevolent creator of the universe NEEDED to abstract their create myth down to the level of every other ancient creation myth in order to let it spread amongst the masses
why tho

[Anonymous No.16997260]

It was real as a metaphor. The garden is the land.

[Anonymous No.16997337]

>>16992796
A metaphor to represent how humanity traded the innocence of the beast for the sinful power that is sapience. I like to think God gave us a choice. Be pure animals without true self awareness or be people with all the power and burdens that brings. We made our choice.

[Anonymous No.16998578]

>>16992796
It's literally in my backyard, right now.

[Anonymous No.16998697]

>>16996700
this.
take this upvote madlad

[Anonymous No.16998979]

The garden is the womb. Adam and Eve are father and mother, their unity is the child. The tree is the placenta (common pagan symbolism, the placenta looks a lot like a tree), the snake is the umbilical chord giving the nourishment, the apple, to the fetus from the placenta/tree. Adam and Eve being exiled from the garden is the birth. That is how the ancient Jews explained the cry of the newborns, they did not leave out of their own will.

[Anonymous No.16998994]

>>16993761