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/lit/ - Literature

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File: 1.32 MB, 2800x2500, Doorstoppers_list_for_wiki.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1693613 No.1693613 [Reply] [Original]

What does the term doorstoppers mean?
Is it a book you start but can't finish?

>> No.1693619

It's just a really big book.

>> No.1693623

A book large enough to stop doors

>> No.1693624

>>1693613
so the quality/difficulty of the book isn't reflected by this chart?

>> No.1693625

it depends how closely you relate difficulty and length

>> No.1693626

>>1693624
Nah, in the publishing world, a "doorstopper" is one of those shitty, but fat, novels that people take on vacation with them.

Here on /lit/ it tends to mean pretentious tree-killing tome that someone once said was important and radical or something, but doorstopper doesn't imply quality.

>> No.1693627

I still argue that a doorstopper qualification is 1000+ pgs

>> No.1693630

Long books are shit. If you can't tell your story in 300 pages, then just fuck off and learn to write. Yeah, Tolstoy, I'm fucking looking at you.

>> No.1693636

No Don Quixote or The Good Soldier Svejk?

>> No.1693639
File: 20 KB, 558x371, neckbeard.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1693639

>>1693630
>you

>> No.1693641

>>1693630
Using that justification I would say all stories can be told in at most a paragraph.

Therefore shot stories win.

>> No.1693645

Any story less than 700pgs is simply an undeveloped idea.

>> No.1693647
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1693647

>>1693639

you

>> No.1693651

>>1693641

Yep. The craft of short story writing is infinitely superior to novelism. Poetry trumps them both though.

The novel will be effectively dead in our lifetime, and frankly it's had a better run than anyone could have expected. Only one novel in a thousand is actually worth reading, and when they're over 1000 pages, you can reduce that percentage even further.

>> No.1693657
File: 55 KB, 300x398, kindle_2aNewsWeek1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1693657

>>1693651
>The novel will be effectively dead in our lifetime

Literature in paper-bound format maybe. I don't think written media will perish, though.

>> No.1693655

>>1693651

Novels are too versatile to die. What could possibly replace it?

>> No.1693656

>>1693647
I didn't even crack a smirk.
try a bit harder

>> No.1693673

>>1693651
4chan copypasta = Short story/Poetry

Look at "Hey faggots. My name is John and I hate every single one of you." It's a masterfully crafted text that inspires a range of emotional responses.

>> No.1693677

>>1693657

It always boils down to this, so listen carefully:

Literature does not equal Novels. Novels are a relatively new phenomenon, which arose out of mass media, and a society with sufficient idleness to devote large chunks of time to absorb excessive page counts and verbiage (originally novels were considered fit only for invalids and women).

The novel will be replaced - already the timesinks have moved away from novels and into other areas - anyone in the position of an 19th century woman with time on her hands will probably be sat in front of WoW for 8 hours a day now.

Poetry, drama, comedy, essayism have all proved their longevity, but the novel in its current form will be a quaint curiosity within 50 years. People who read novels will be regarded like people who use typewriters are now - wilfully retro.

>> No.1693681
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1693681

>>1693656

No you're right - your ginger beard man was way funnier. Proper cracked me up that one did.

>> No.1693688

>>1693677

No. As said, they are too versatile. A novel can vary in any number of areas, including length, which seems to be your main point.

>> No.1693689

>>1693673

WTF are you talking about, cunt? Have you ever read a poem?

>> No.1693693

>>1693688

No, that wasn't my main point - the lenght of the thing is no problem. People are prepared to put 70 hours into Final Fantasy XIII, and MMORPGs last forever. Eventually, artistic expression will be in these more interactive forms.

A fictional example is Star Trek - most people enjoy holo-novels, which appear to have artistic merit, and favoured authors. A few people still read actual novels (and probably write them too), but it's not the mainstream.

>> No.1693696

>>1693688

Poetry is far more versatile, and infinitely superior in conveying ideas, images and vision.

Novels are the poor cousins of literature. Novelists are the rich uncles though, so I suppose it balances. This is because novels are the most blatantly commercial of all writing. Th novel is effectively the product of mercantalism and commerce, not art.

>> No.1693701

>>1693693

You're right, I didn't read the timesink thing properly.

Arguably, people that novels are already a minority, and poetry even more so, but I can't really see either of them ever being wiped out.

It offers an experience which hasn't yet been matched. The novel specialises in the interior world, I guess, and there's nothing else like it. Plus, like I said, it's so versatile. A novel is basically just a number of pages. How can that ever be replaced?

>> No.1693707

>>1693696

And novels are superior in delving into detail. Two seperate things. You use the word 'art' but then you go and insult it by comparing two completely different mediums.

>> No.1693733

>>1693707

Novels are superior at delving into detail that the author allows to be discovered. interactive fiction is more suited to allowing the "reader" to discover their own details, and, in the best cast scenario, the ability to effect the fiction that the reader is participating in.

I'm not saying that no-one will write or publish or read novels at all, what I'm saying is that novelism will move aside from its dominant position, and a new "literature" will take its place. Even something as simple as a kindle is showing that literature need not be bound to paper, and more writers will feel inhibited by the crusing covers of the novel, and will move into new media. It's natural artitic evolution.

>> No.1693752

>>1693733
oh you mean like no artists paint on canvas anymore because they have photoshop?

rite...

>> No.1694012

>>1693752

Fuck off you brainless prick - anyone with half a brain can see that's not what I'm saying. Fucking children spewing shit all over the fucking place.

>> No.1694046

>>1693752

Actually, artists painting on canvas has taken a back seat for, oooh, 30 years or so? When was the last time a painting won the Turner Prize?

Visual artists have been far more adaptable to new media than writers. Brakhage, Hirst, Emin amongst others, have embraced video, computer imagery and other new media, while painting is seen as a fairly recondite and old-fasioned pursuit.

Your Paint comparison is trite, and proves you're not very aware of modern artisitc conventions, but you've added to the argument, so thanks.

>> No.1694130

Short stories are easier to make

>> No.1694139

>>1694130

Fuck off are they. A short story writer has to be in and out like a ninja, and has to make every word count. A novelist can just ramble and ramble and repeat and ramble and go on and on about things, saying things in a slightly different way over and over again, and basically bitch up the place with their verbosity.

Short story writers are greyhounds, novelists are fat St. Bernards.