/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16930796]

Hello friends. Any good books on processing childhood sexual abuse or books on the development of deviant/taboo sexual fetishes as a result of childhood trauma?
Preferably not involving shrinks or medication.

[Anonymous No.16930812]

Berserk

[Anonymous No.16930861]

the body keeps the score is REALLY good. it helped me work through some dark shit. also look up “progressive relaxation.” i know mindfulness exercises sound gay but they’re really helpful when you’ve just experienced a flashback or woken up from a nightmare and they help to ground you when you feel a panic attack coming on. i hope you find this useful. you are in my thoughts, anon. if you don’t mind me asking, what ptsd symptoms do you experience most strongly? i may have some advice.

[Anonymous No.16930871]

the body keeps the score is REALLY good. it helped me work through some dark shit. also look up “progressive relaxation.” i know mindfulness exercises sound gay but they’re really helpful when you’ve just experienced a flashback or woken up from a nightmare and they help to ground you when you feel a panic attack coming on. i hope you find this useful. you are in my thoughts, anon. if you don’t mind me asking, what ptsd symptoms do you experience most strongly? i may have some advice.

[Anonymous No.16930883]

>>16930796
Everything of an integrous nature, such as Billy Graham etc. You probably will find such types repulsive - that’s because of your discontentment. Start untangling those emotions and the abuse dilemma will be brought out eventually.

[Anonymous No.16930944]

>>16930871
>>16930871
I have extreme social anxiety, and I've pretty much just grown accustomed to it over time. It wasn't until a few years ago that I started recollecting what happened (Abuse happened real young, like 5 - 8 years old) I've been coming to term with a lot of things I do like compulsive sexual behavior or midnight anxiety attacks that turn into vomiting fits are likely a result of it. I've started reading into and have realized that it probably really fucked me up through my adolescence to, but I want to understand the full effect. Thanks for the rec, I'll check it out.
>>16930883
Difficult choice for me, I was raised in the evangelical church, they weren't abusive to me but I have plenty of friends who were subjected to some diabolical shit.

[Anonymous No.16930955]

>>16930944
Maybe it’s not as diabolical if you learn to come to grips with it! :)

Godspeed

[Anonymous No.16932515]

>>16930796
Poor Anon.
You will overcome this, buddy.

[Anonymous No.16932652]

[Anonymous No.16932698]

>>16930796
I'm so sorry anon. I've never endured something like that but I did grow up around substance abuse and I've found journaling tremendously helpful for digesting what happened. I don't know of any books that deal with sexual abuse explicitly but bioenergetics might be of interest to you, so perhaps some of Alexander Lowen's work. It goes beyond mindfulness, which of course is good, and seeks to address the trauma stored in the body.

[Anonymous No.16932775]

>>16930796
This might interest you anon. Hope things get better
>TRE® is an innovative series of exercises that assist the body in releasing deep muscular patterns of stress, tension and trauma. The exercises safely activate a natural reflex mechanism of shaking or vibrating that releases muscular tension, calming down the nervous system. When this muscular shaking/vibrating mechanism is activated in a safe and controlled environment, the body is encouraged to return back to a state of balance.
https://traumaprevention.com/
Their website has more info
>TRE® (Tension & Trauma Releasing Exercises): Full Instructions with Dr. David Berceli (OFFICIAL)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeUioDuJjFI

[Anonymous No.16932832]

No book is gonna really help you unless you're some retard that only feels better when they hear something reassuring.
Let me be realistic here, you're fucked up. You're going to always be fucked up. Its not just getting your fiddle diddled that did that either.
Maybe in some reality that isn't this one, you lived a happy life as a normal person, but this isn't that reality. You'll never truly reconcile with your past and magically be better.
After you read this post, go take a fucking look in the mirror. That's you, as you are now, as a sum of a long line of events that led up to you in that mirror. The only way you are going to get better is to face reality with all you've got. Conquer your fears and push forward because the past isn't coming back with an apology. If you can't do that, you can either go mentally retarded like a vast majority of the population, or just shoot yourself and save yourself the pain.
But don't get me wrong, I don't care about you or your troubles. Few people came here having had a happy life. Ignore what you will of this post if you're not up for putting on your big boy britches and facing yourself.

[Anonymous No.16932895]

>>16930871
Seconding the body keeps the score. Also, therapy or journaling could be helpful to get it off your chest.
T. Sexual abused as a kid as well

[Anonymous No.16932901]

>>16932832

[Anonymous No.16932965]

>>16930796
hey anon, not a book rec, just wanted to say you’re not unique in your struggles and stuff can get better, though it’s not easy shit to deal with.

>>16930944
>It wasn't until a few years ago that I started recollecting what happened
similar experience, I realized what had happened ten years after the fact at age 19/20. it’s a mechanism in your mind protecting you because you’re not supposed to deal with this as a kid so take it as a good thing. this means, though, that you’ve lived with an open wound until now and only now can healing begin.

>have realized that it probably really fucked me up through my adolescence too
most derfinetely, also your sexual fixations / deviancies have probably arisen as an unhealthy attempt of an adolescent mind to process it all. rest assured that it is not irreversible though, you are not doomed to forever fixate on fucked up fetishes if you truly desire to overcome them.


the harsh truth, however, is that the reality of it never goes away and it is part of what made you who you are. dealing with it doesn’t make it go away, but you can learn to live healthily with your scars.

you can talk with someone you trust, go to therapy or write in a journal, and those are unironically helpful. but know that none of these actions in themselves will ‘fix’ the ordeal. it’s about you.

godspeed, anon.

[Anonymous No.16933760]

de Sade

[Anonymous No.16933776]

hey man have a good day

[Anonymous No.16933784]

What happened anon?

[Anonymous No.16934320]

>>16932965
>>16932832
black pilled but I've mostly come to the same conclusion. I've pretty much accepted that I'll always be a shut in/ socially withdrawn as a result. It's more that I want to understand how bad the damage can be/ the ways in which it manifests. I've spent my whole life thinking I was autistic, but now I really doubt it. I spent my entire childhood + teenage years completely alone without friends or a girlfriend. For awhile I thought my attraction to young girls was resentment at that, now I feel like I stumbled into the cycle of pedoism and it disgusts me and makes me feel ashamed.
>>16932965
Thank you friend, yes I always thought repressed memories were a meme but they hit me like a train wreck and sent me into a depression for the better part of two years. My hesitance with therapy really just flows back to my social anxiety.
>>16933776
thank you friend
>>16933784
I won't go too far into detail because the thought of some degenerate getting off on it sickens me, but it does actually help to write about these things anonymously.

>Be me, 5 or 6 years old blue eye blonde haired little boy
>second youngest in a family of 8
>dad works in DC as a lobbyist, Mom homeschools the youngest of us.
>We had just moved to the big city from the countryside, had been poor as dirt before my dad got into politics
>Neighbor is a pediatrician and a doctor
>mom starts letting me spend the day at his house with his 8 year old Hank and his fatass mom who plays Quake all day.
>Hank is adopted, previous parents were abusive
>he starts making me give him blowjobs and shit
>parents still unaware
>continues for about a year before his dad starts abusing me as well, I suspect he may have been drugging me because the memories are difficult to recall, always strange and dream like, and the abuse always followed meals.
>become hyper sexualized, obsessed with porn and hentai as a 7 year old
>can't even talk to my sisters without popping boners
>start wetting the bed, won't stop until I'm 13 or 14
I'm pretty sure I convinced two of my sisters to do H things with me, they were twins and only a year older than me. No sex, just fooling around.

Wasn't much longer after that that my parents found out. My dad was pissed as hell, until he found out about what was going on at Hank's.

I'm still not entirely sure how much they knew about what was going on, but suddenly one day when I was 9 my dad told me I was never allowed to see Hank again, and that I should never go near their house. That was the last anyone has ever spoken of it.


>tfw still hypersexualized
>tfw even with a fiancee I'm still attracted to my sisters and harbor a huge siscon fetish

Hurts because my relationship with my entire family is awful. I worry my parents have always known and just simply let it slide under the rug. After what happened with my sisters they've treated me like a pervert and scum, now that we're adults I can't even talk to them out of shame.

[Anonymous No.16934428]

>>16934320
That's sad anon, commiserations.

On the matter of oversexualisation. Personally I've always considered this more to be a matter of 'wringing the wallet dry' by psychologists; humans, and especially men, are naturally prone to this, why fight it? I maintain some inclinations that some could regard as amoral, and yet, who cares? I don't act on them. why can't I simply separate my most base, carnal instincts from my purer, more abstract feelings of love?

If you genuinely love your fiance it seems to me like there isn't a problem. Everyone must resist temptation after all!

[Anonymous No.16934478]

>>16934320
damn man
have you thought about selling all your belongings to move far far away and start everything anew

[Anonymous No.16934491]

>>16934428
>>16934428
Well said. I don't mean to imply that one has to be abused to have impure thoughts or a taboo fetish. I've been hoping to better understand the scope of what that abuse can do, topics like satyriphobia or hypersexuality interest me because, even in the eyes of my fiancée, I have an abnormally high sex drive. She knows that I was abused at one point, (I haven't been able to go into details without anonymity with anyone before) but has no idea about my weird kinks or the fact that I jerk off 7 - 8 times a day on average. I sincerely want to resist my temptations, I've never once acted on impure urges or been unfaithful, ironically intense social anxiety helps in this accord, but sexual behavior has become a compulsion for me linked to anxiety attacks, or so I fear. Many cases of nymphomania begin in such a way.

On the other hand, however, I envy the innocence with which others can interact with children or even their families. In my mind I understand that sex is merely an animalistic act that feels good, not something to be coveted or placed on a pedestal. But I cannot help but feel intense shame when I have sex with my fiancée and think of someone else, someone my mind should definitely not be thinking of.

[Anonymous No.16934526]

>>16934478
My dream is to save enough money to live out west in the Rockies, somewhere nobody knows my name. I've always loved solitude and the outdoors.

[Anonymous No.16934543]

>>16934491
I've thought about fucking my sister a few times anon no harm in it. So you do it while having sex with your fiance, so what? Just remember anon, diminishing returns, it won't last forever. No one can maintain a single erotic fantasy their entire life; and, if you'll get over it sometime anyway, why fret?

Anyway nice talking to you anon, we're all gonna make it, just you watch.

[Anonymous No.16934576]

>>16930796
I don't know any books but I watched a movie called Festen which is about a guy confronting his dad who molested him when he was a child. I used to feel a bit indifferent to sex abusers and their victims since it never happened to me nor do I personally know anyone who had that faith but for some reason, that movie resonated with me and made sympathize with people like you more. It was very uncomfortable but so satisfying to get through it until the end.

[Anonymous No.16934602]

>>16930796
I think you could use some therapy, not literature, anon. You can't fix yourself. Not with what you've been through.

[Anonymous No.16934631]

>>16934602
Therapy is helpful, but a therapist can’t fix someone, nor is it his/her job. However well meaning your comment, OP shouldn’t outsource agency in dealing with his abuse to others, nor have any notion of ‘fixing’ himself or making it disappear.

[Anonymous No.16934722]

>>16934543
It actually does help to know there are other people with degenerate fantasies like mine. Sometimes I worry I can't get off without giving in to the fantasy though.
>>16934602
I have thought about therapy, I may give it a shot at some point in the future but I worry that a therapist will want to medicate me, I know that medication works well with some but I hate the idea of being in an impaired state or dependent on a drug. I've pretty much moved past the idea of 'fixing' the damage because it happened so long ago. I just want to understand what the experience of coping with abuse over the course of a lifetime is like, how it evolves.
Essentially, how does one end up as sick a fuck as Hank's dad? I find myself spending an inordinate amount of time thinking about that.

[Anonymous No.16934809]

>>16934722
Unless deemed a threat to yourself or your immediate surroundings, no one can force meds on you. Also, shrinks prescribe meds, therapists just do talking. I recommend it, anon.

[Anonymous No.16934915]

I've been following this thread and haven't seen anyone address one of anon's questions. What are some book recommendations about the development of deviant/taboo sexual fetishes?

[Anonymous No.16934967]

>>16930796

[Anonymous No.16934969]

>>16934320
you should track down hank and his dad and castrate them

[Anonymous No.16934979]

>>16934915
Yeah I'm still interested in the topic as well, I've tried looking for resources on my own but most scholarly journals like are locked behind significant paywalls and I haven't been able to find anything of value on #bookz.

I have read Sexual Deviance: Theory, Assessment, and Treatment by Richard Laws and William Donahue, but it's a dated text and I was hoping for something more contemporary. You can check it out here for free, but for some reason Google omits the last 70 pages of a 735 page journal.

[Anonymous No.16934992]

>>16934967
Good book

[Anonymous No.16935025]

>>16934979
https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=yIXG9FuqbaIC&oi=fnd&pg=PA1&dq=Sexual+Deviance:+Theory,+Assessment,+and+Treatment&ots=Elnk5k4l_z&sig=MdRalwuKdZQwLKR502qlmVHgpZk#v=onepage&q&f=false
Forgot the link
>>16934969
I looked him up when the memories resurfaced and found him pretty easily, I mean he is a doctor to this day. I entertained some revenge fantasies for awhile but decided it wasn't worth ending up in jail or some shit for killing a rapist when the world is full of them. My advice to fellow anons is never leave your kids alone with anyone unless you know and trust them. Especially doctors.

Honestly I feel as though my life has turned out pretty well despite my neurosis. I have a decent job, good amount of money, and a solid girlfriend. I feel like that's the ultimate fuck you to someone who probably is an abuser because he was abused himself. Only problem is how weird the whole ordeal made me, and the thought that he's still in a position to abuse more people. Guy's well connected and from a wealthy family though, so I doubt that pursuing anything would matter even if the statute of limitations hadn't expired.
When I looked him up I found out his father (Hank's adoptive grandfather) was a bigwig at NASA during the 70s and 80s and the family is loaded.

[Anonymous No.16935053]

Meditate unironically. When you are doing an hour a day all that repressed shit about the time someone came into your hotel room in tenerife when you were 8 is going to resurface

[Anonymous No.16935058]

>>16930955
no child abuse is evil. stop coping

[Anonymous No.16935071]

Definitely check out The Trauma Myth.

[Anonymous No.16935088]

>>16930796
My life history taught me that human beings are literal garbage on legs. I've managed to get to a point where I feel genuine empathy for a roach but none for a person.

[Anonymous No.16935091]

>>16935071
>read pedophile apologetics to stockholm yourself into feeling better about being taken advantage of
unironically kys

[Anonymous No.16935100]

>>16935091
its not pedophile apologetics it is about the complexity of the victims trauma

[Anonymous No.16935118]

>>16934320
and your dad was just like "lol ok just don't go near their house again"?

[Anonymous No.16935129]

>>16935100
thats exactly what it is, and its dishonest on top of that. children will start displaying signs of maladaptive behaviour before anyone knows they are being abused, which is why so many more cases are brought to light these days, people know how to see the signs in their behaviour. children are also given sexual education now, so its not "confusion" that causes this behaviour, they know exactly what has happened to them. I dont need some kike with a degree to explain to me that my life wad ACTUALLY ruined by the people trying to protect me and comfort me after the fact. no amount of jewish sophistry is going to convince an honest person that molesting children is not the thing that fucks them up

[Anonymous No.16935142]

>>16935129
lol, stop strawmaning the book. Its clear you have not read it.

[Anonymous No.16935154]

>>16935142
dont ask what is said. ask why it is said.

[Anonymous No.16935158]

>>16935154

[Anonymous No.16935174]

>>16935158
She doesnt even look jewish. I mean jewish in the spiritual sense. Shes a "jew". Not even all jews, even most jews, are "jews". It just encompasses these sorts of people

[Anonymous No.16935194]

>>16935174
take your pills man or else your brain rot will progress

[Anonymous No.16935204]

>>16935194
>TAKE THE MEDS

[Anonymous No.16935216]

>>16935118
>>16935118
I'm not really sure how much of the abuse he was aware of. I've had to piece things together from memories at the time because we never talk about shit like this in my family, but I think that he may have found out I was doing things with my sisters, which led him to the conclusion that something weird was happening with Hank. I have vague memories of him asking me if Hank ever played doctor with me or shit like that. You have to keep in mind that my dad is a workaholic, would often be gone in DC for long stretches of time, and only come back to see us on weekends. I was also only one kid of many, and I bottled all this shit up hardcore.

My dad's dad killed himself and he was put into foster care for a year because his mom was determined unfit to be his guardian ( she was extremely depressed and in a wheelchair due to polio as a child), as a result he is extremely suspicious of psychologists and therapists, on top of that he's a zealot evangelical so his response would probably have just been to pray it off.

[Anonymous No.16935217]

>>16935204
>everything I feel slightly off about is jewish conspiracy

[Anonymous No.16935227]

>>16935217
I gave an actual critique of the book. I noted how it leaves out relevent information used by child protection guidelines as standard. You are coping. Breathe. Ring your doctor. Ask for the schizo pills. Swallow.

[Anonymous No.16935246]

>>16935227
You just strawmanned the book and avoided its content and problems
>children will start displaying signs of maladaptive behaviour before anyone knows they are being abused
source

[Anonymous No.16935260]

>>16930796
Bottle that shit up.

[Anonymous No.16935275]

>>16935071
>>16935100
>>16935142
>>16935246

keep your disgusting shit to your own thread, pedo anon.

[Anonymous No.16935301]

>>16935275
are you literally shaking rn?

[Anonymous No.16935303]

>>16935246
https://web.archive.org/web/20141231094025/http://apa.org/pi/families/resources/understanding-child-abuse.aspx

[Anonymous No.16935332]

>Research has shown that traumatic stress, including stress caused by sexual abuse, causes notable changes in brain functioning and development.[79][80] Various studies have suggested that severe child sexual abuse may have a deleterious effect on brain development. Ito et al. (1998) found "reversed hemispheric asymmetry and greater left hemisphere coherence in abused subjects;"[81] Teicher et al. (1993) found that an increased likelihood of "ictal temporal lobe epilepsy-like symptoms" in abused subjects;[82] Anderson et al. (2002) recorded abnormal transverse relaxation time in the cerebellar vermis of adults sexually abused in childhood;[83] Teicher et al. (1993) found that child sexual abuse was associated with a reduced corpus callosum area; various studies have found an association of reduced volume of the left hippocampus with child sexual abuse;[84] and Ito et al. (1993) found increased electrophysiological abnormalities in sexually abused children.[85]

>Some studies indicate that sexual or physical abuse in children can lead to the overexcitation of an undeveloped limbic system.[84] Teicher et al. (1993)[82] used the "Limbic System Checklist-33" to measure ictal temporal lobe epilepsy-like symptoms in 253 adults. Reports of child sexual abuse were associated with a 49% increase to LSCL-33 scores, 11% higher than the associated increase of self-reported physical abuse. Reports of both physical and sexual abuse were associated with a 113% increase. Male and female victims were similarly affected.[82][86]

>Navalta et al. (2006) found that the self-reported math Scholastic Aptitude Test scores of their sample of women with a history of repeated child sexual abuse were significantly lower than the self-reported math SAT scores of their non-abused sample. Because the abused subjects' verbal SAT scores were high, they hypothesized that the low math SAT scores could "stem from a defect in hemispheric integration." They also found a strong association between short-term memory impairments for all categories tested (verbal, visual, and global) and the duration of the abuse.[87]

nah bro its actually us as a SOCIETY for stigmatising it that causes the problem bro

[Anonymous No.16935331]

>>16935303
it doesnt say anything about it though? or am I missing something?

[Anonymous No.16935344]

>>16935332
but your citations do not refute my points and I didnt say that trauma doesnt exist, do you read anything or starman everything? Saying that trauma stems for stigmatising isnt the same as saying it doesnt exist and doesnt have physical/psychological effects on the victim.

[Anonymous No.16935365]

>>16930796
A little life by Hanya Yanagihara
Except that the protagonist copes by being asexual rather than having fetishes

[Anonymous No.16935385]

>>16935331
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/107906328900200102

https://doi.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2F0033-2909.113.1.164

"Studies have found that 51% to 79% of sexually abused children exhibit psychological symptoms.[45][54][55][56][57] The risk of harm is greater if the abuser is a relative, if the abuse involves intercourse or attempted intercourse"

cant believe i actually bothered getting the sources for this shit. happy now?

[Anonymous No.16935393]

>>16935344
it does refute your point. fucking kids can literally inhibit the development of their brain. or is that the "stigma" doing that?

[Anonymous No.16935414]

>>16935393
don’t bother, he is an individual with an agenda; hurt.

[Anonymous No.16935431]

>>16935393
> fucking kids can literally
most of CSA is not penetration. I would agree that forcefull and clearly wrong rape situations can cause problems instantly. But the vast majority of CSA is oral sex, touching etc. which is harder for children to conceptualize, so they dont cause trauma instantly
>or is that the "stigma" doing that?
in the latter cases yes
>>16935385
once again, I'm not saying trauma doesnt exist are you retarded or what

[Anonymous No.16935437]

>>16935301
fuck off, i bet you get off on this shit, degenerate.

[Anonymous No.16935465]

>>16935431
My point is that children will display behaviour that indicates they are being molested before anyone has a chance to "traumatise" them. For example, grabbing/ itching their genitals constantly, trying to make themselves look unappealing, innapropriate behaviour, dissassociation, depression etc. This is what the articles are talking about. These are the signs a child might be being abused, before anyone has had a chance to tell them what has happened is "bad" or whatever. What I am saying is that the detrimental effects to their wellbeing start straight away, and can be picked up on.

[Anonymous No.16935474]

I am sorry OP

[Anonymous No.16935485]

>>16935465
Can say as OP that I was pretty much the posterboy of this shit.

>constant grabbing/itching of gentials
yeah, to this day
>dissassociation
Definitely
>depression
Yep
I was that kid who would always be talking about sex in like 3rd grade, way before anyone else.
Plus the pissing the bed. Really blew my mind when I read all the symptoms of child sex abuse because, until that point, I had thought I had just imagined the whole thing.

[Anonymous No.16935508]

>>16935465
can you cite the actual parts, because I dont have access to the paper. Being depressed and dissasociative about something you don't understand sounds a bit far reaching.

[Anonymous No.16935511]

>>16935485
sorry bro, its just awful. I dont know why adults cant leave kids out of their bullshit. The mind and experience of being a child is so lovely its hard to beleif something like that could manage to establish itself in this shitty world. And yet some people cant even allow you that, they wont even let you be happy for one second of your entire life and will make you into a world weary, cynical and broken adult for a few moments of pleasure. its a sick joke

[Anonymous No.16935515]

>>16935485
Should add that the humiliation of the bed wetting really contributed to the social anxiety overall. Imagine being humiliated daily by your beautiful older sisters, who you share a room with, because you can't stop pissing yourself in your dreams. I internalized the whole thing, thought I was a freak or a sociopath or something.

I'm handsome, so I got a lot of attention from girls in Highschool because I gave off a loner/mysterious vibe, at least according to my girlfriend. Wouldn't have guessed it at the time though, literally no one ever spoke to me. When girls did come to talk to me I assumed they just wanted to embarrass me or humiliate me by tricking me into a compromising situation - that or they'd be disgusted by how much of a pervert I already was at that age. Instead I spent all my time being a degenerate reading visual novels and fantasizing about incest. Really missed out.

[Anonymous No.16935532]

if you have "degenerate" fantasies or even just uncomfortable or maladaptive sexual desires, please try not to fap to them. I know it's hard, I struggle with it myself, and it feels like the only thing that can get me off is something that makes me feel shame... but it really isn't right to keep rewarding yourself with orgasms when you think about the fucked up shit and get aroused. I'm not saying you have to nofap, but don't fap to the ~bad stuff.~ basically, if you're jerking off and you start thinking of the bad stuff, STOP. force yourself to think of healthy sexual fantasies and condition yourself to like them. also, do i even have to say it?, stop watching porn. this stuff fucking sucks bros. i'm in the same boat but it's not doomed. best wishes.

[Anonymous No.16935542]

do not cede on your desire, it is who you are

[Anonymous No.16935550]

>>16935508
I quoted the most relevent parts. Just read the wikipedia page if you want a load of sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse

How is that far reaching? Do you know animals can get depressed? Do you think they have deep existential thoughts, or that their emotions, which they dont have the capacity to understand fully, let them know something is wrong? For one

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/children-depressed-signs/

yes obviously children can get depressed, and obviously they will rarely really understand "why". As I already pointed out, sexual abuse can inhibit the physical development of the brain, so in many ways you do not need to understand these things for them to effect you in a detrimental way. Are you telling me you have never been depressed and had no idea why? Because that is the case for many people with depression.

Further than that, children as young as 10 or so get sexual education. They can understand what is happening to them, and children tend to know more than adults give them credit for.

[Anonymous No.16935572]

>>16935532
yeah a lot these days people say if it doesnt hurt anyone its not bad. concequentialism rules over peoples ideas of being "good". firstly, it does hurt someone, that being you. normalising these thoughts to yourself, thinking in that way long term will take its effect. Telling yourself its okay to think like that will have an effect on you.

[Anonymous No.16935606]

>>16935550
I'm not doubting the fact that children can get depressed. I'm not doubting the fact taht children who get raped get depressed. I'm doubting the fact that children who are abused in non overtly harmful way (oral, touching) get depressed without even knowing what happened to them. What you're presenting me with is data that people who suffer from CSA get symptoms. I know that, you dont need to send me that. My point IS that in non harmful CSA cases initially it does not have any effects on the children. And it becomes traumatizing only after a posteriori traumatization. Your data isnt about it. The Trauma Myth has the relevant data, since CSA victims talk about how they felt about CSA when it happened. CSA when it happened and when it is understood later are two different things.

[Anonymous No.16935609]

>>16935508
For me the depression, at least as a kid, was much different than it was as an adult. Example that comes to mind is that when I stopped homeschooling in fourth grade. On one hand, I was unused to the rigidity and structure of the school, on the other hand, a fourth grade boy sneaking off during recess everyday to hide by himself in the forest and cry because he has no friends isn't normal. The disassociation is harder to express - I wouldn't say that I was really fully aware of my sexual abuse until much later after it happened, but during that period I became a video game addict hardcore, playing computer games for like 8 - 10 hours a day sometimes. Whenever we had family functions I would spend the entire time reading quietly in the corner if I couldn't just flee the room and hide somewhere secluded. Reason I thought I was autistic lol.
>>16935532
You're right of course, I had been good about avoiding the fantasizing for a little while but the shutdown having me contained for so long, I've fallen back into it like a coke addict or something. The shame of it is definitely a factor though. Sometimes I have to stop myself from asking my GF to hit me during sex, have no idea what she'd think if she knew I was that degenerate.

[Anonymous No.16935676]

>>16935606
That is NOT what I am saying. Infact, the source I quoted said it was more likely symptoms would be shown in the case of penetrative sex, which obviously means they can and do happen without. All of the information I have given you attests to this, that maladaptive behaviour begins upon sexual contact, and it does not have to be penetrative. You can re read my posts if you dispute that. And by the notion of simplicity, the whole "stigma" cope fails utterly. Is it more reasonable to assume the actual events cause harm, or that some therapist asking a kid where they got touched suddenly ruins their entire life? When you examine the claim, especially against the evidence, it is genuinely ridiculous. Dont assume its the actual events of a persons life that causes the problems, despite the fact they start to become visisble straight after, assume its them being told it was bad after that somehow induces brain development issues. As I said on your first reply, you are just an apologist. You have pretty much exposed that fact by going on about "non harmful sex"- there is no such thing. There is no situation where an adult is not taking advantage. I mean its your fucking dick for gods sake, why cant you faggots just jerk off and leave it there? If you are still disputing this despite the information ive given theres no point arguing, you have your own reasons for wanting to believe what you want to believe.

[Anonymous No.16935703]

>>16935676
You assert over and over again that "maladaptive behaviour begins upon sexual contact" and say you have data to support that, but the links you have sent me just talk about how children can have depression and how CSA causes psychological harm. Cite me one line from any study which clearly says non-penetrative CSA causes harm instantly. Just do it and I'm gone, I'm not defending anything. The Trauma Myth isnt a perfect study. It's just an practising psychologist who interview a sample of 200~ random people. Vast majority of those victims said that in non-penetrative cases they didnt find it traumating at first. I can cite the author and the victims themselves if needed. I'm not just theorizing from my farts.

[Anonymous No.16935804]

>>16935703
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_sexual_abuse

https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/healthy-body/spotting-signs-of-child-sexual-abuse/

Literally any offical guidelines like these point out maladaptive behaviour to pay attention which indicate abuse.

[Anonymous No.16935888]

>>16935804
guidelines arent scientific studies and wiki page has no relevant data

[Anonymous No.16935929]

>>16935888
lmao cope. Yeah these government institutions specialising in detecting molested children just make it up, all this information is baseless and worthless because it isnt in a periodical (which is where this information will be collated from anyway).

[Anonymous No.16935959]

>>16935929
im not saying its baseless, its just not relevant to our discussion. Guidelines could be aimed at those children who have already conceptualized what happened to them and developed trauma because of it. What I'm asking for is studies that show that CSA is traumatic when in happens.

[Anonymous No.16936003]

>>16935959
What do you even mean here? These are for teachers etc to be able to spot an abused child. Necessarily, they assume nobody has noticed the abuse yet and had a chance to traumatise them by telling them its bad. Unless you mean that the child already understands what sex is, which as I have said many probably do, which would go against what the trauma myth claims about confusion regardless. And they must be scientific to some degree, or else whenever they give these guidelines out they would be constantly wrong and asking normal children who touched them. The fact that children show signs of being abnormal and fucked up before they are approached by social services just refutes the notion that the damage is a post hoc affair

[Anonymous No.16936076]

>>16936003
>The fact that children show signs of being abnormal and fucked up before they are approached by social services just refutes the notion that the damage is a post hoc affair
if the child was raped forcefully and realizes what has happened he develops trauma and then teachers notice the patterns. I think those guidelines are aimed at these kind of cases. Or the child is abused non-penetratively and learns about sex from his iPhone. And then the trauma kicks in and teachers notice the patterns. Guidelines mean nothing. Actual accounts of real children who were sexually abused non-penetratively mean way more. And they say that trauma is post hoc affair.

[Anonymous No.16936139]

>>16936076
This seems like a gigantic, gymnastic cope to me. Firstly, why does realising what has happened create the negative effects? As has been stated, if an animal can get depressed, it is evident you do not need to understand what is happening to you for events to create fucked up mental states. Secondly here, sex education is a thing as I have noted. A lot of the time they know whats happening to them, this again is partly why sex education is became an important issue for schools, it gives children the ability to self report and describe what has happened to them. As a result this is why more pedophiles resort to implicit threats or trying to guilt trip a literal child about jail to get them to shut up. I just dont understand how what you are saying relates to the information available

[Anonymous No.16936217]

>>16936139
>Firstly, why does realising what has happened create the negative effects?
because non aggressive, non forceful touching feels good/neutral for children, why should they get depressed over it?
>Secondly here, sex education is a thing as I have noted
and I'm all for it. But I dont really think all of them talk about how sexual relationships with adults are bad, and sex ed varies by age so not every child who is 10 years old knows whats up.

listen, just read 10 first pages of Trauma Myth, it presents its argument better than I do, we are battling with shadows here, was nice talking to you.

[Anonymous No.16936335]

>>16936217
>why should they get depressed bro? you have a nice house and tv bro why are you depressed lol
There are a million reasons why, reducing psychology down to "why would that be bad bro" is just a terrible argument, especially when your premise comes down to stimulus alone. People arent dogs. It feels good for the person going out of their way to exploit a child im sure, and I find it funny that your premise seems to be NOT teaching them what sex is will avoid them becoming traumatised. Yeah, use a child for your pleasure, dont attempt any explanation as to what is happening to them, just insist "this feels good". Luckily we have sexual education in schools now, and the number of children who report this stuff of their own choice has mysteriously increased as a result, regarding your second point. Almost like when children have the ability to describe what has happened to them they will, which is again why predators rely on rewards and threats. If it was a meaningless pleasure for both parties there wouldnt be any issue, but that isnt the case.