/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16910868]

Hesse is supposedly beginner tier for the autists of /lit/. But how many of us are using literature to escape the world? I'm tired of living vicariously through books. Neither the Greeks nor Joyce will change the fact that we are alone and facile. Lofty ideas are wasted on impotent young men.

[Anonymous No.16910892]

>>16910868
What a bizarre, meandering, incoherent post. Are you ESL? What are you trying to say?

[Anonymous No.16910929]

It's the Wodehouse guy

[Anonymous No.16910933]

>>16910892
>What a bizarre, meandering, incoherent post. Are you ESL? What are you trying to say?
>how many of us are using literature to escape the world? I'm tired of living vicariously through books
Nigga what?

[Anonymous No.16910958]

>>16910868
>we are alone and facile
Speak for yourself bro

[Anonymous No.16911053]

>>16910868
I flat out did not get this book. Am i retarded?

[Anonymous No.16911075]

>>16910868
if over 19, kys.

[Anonymous No.16911081]

>>16910933
>Hesse is supposedly beginner tier for the autists of /lit/.
Yes, Hesse is rather introductory.

>But how many of us are using literature to escape the world? I'm tired of living vicariously through books.
What's this got to do with Hesse? Anyhow, despite the fact that most people tend to try and escape the world in some form or another- be it through alcohol, drugs, romance, television- escaping it through good literature is hardly a bad thing. But also bear in mind that "[escaping] the world" is hardly the same as "living vicariously through books". In fact, I would argue that living through literature is a GOOD thing- aside from the obvious benefits to an individual's empathy and imaginative faculties, which of us would otherwise experience hunting a white whale under a crazed captain? Become embroiled in a murder? Accompany a paedophile and his victim on a cross-country road trip? By reading we live out other lives, and in doing so better examine our own.

>Neither the Greeks nor Joyce will change the fact that we are alone and facile.
Speak for yourself. Although being facile is, I believe, a great deal worse than solitude.

>Lofty ideas are wasted on impotent young men.
Why? And how do you define impotence? Do you think a life lived accumulating material wealth is any less impotent than one spent in study? I would be content whiling away my time with reading, writing, and the company of loved ones for the rest of my days. In the face of mortality is seems blindingly obvious that a moral life is the only life worth living- the moral scholar is less impotent than the immoral conqueror. Plato answered this thousands of years ago.

Ironically, the best advice I can give you regarding your concerns is to read more.

[Anonymous No.16911181]

>>16910868
The problem in Steppenwof is not that problem. It's the problem of a man who throws himself headfirst into experience for a while then just as earnestly away from it.

[Anonymous No.16911319]

>>16911081
>What's this got to do with Hesse?
Steppenwolf is about a man who absorbs himself in high culture because he hates the culture he lives in. The lonely wolf of the steppe. "Rather introductory," lol get over yourself.
>Why? And how do you define impotence? Do you think a life lived accumulating material wealth is any less impotent than one spent in study?
Your head is so far up your ass you can't help but play semantical games rather than think about the proposition

>>16911181
>The problem in Steppenwof is not that problem. It's the problem of a man who throws himself headfirst into experience for a while then just as earnestly away from it.
This is like a bootlegged sparknotes account of the book. Read it again

[Anonymous No.16911843]

hesse is for midwits, just kill yourself and end your misery

[Anonymous No.16911855]

>>16911319
Your willingness to turn to name-calling g suggests a mental immaturity, which would explain your failure to fully grasp even such an introductory work. And introductory it is- Siddhartha, Steppenwolf, Demian, Narcissus and Golmund, The Glass Bead Game- all pale in comparison even to other German writers such as Goethe, Schiller or Mann, let alone the broader scope of world literature.

It is no bad thing that Haller is interested in high culture. In fact, I would say an admiration of high culture and a disapproval of modern culture is very reasonable. Being on a Literature board we ourselves are likely to share in these sentiments. Haller's problem was that he hated himself. The pamphlet he receives early in the book explains that he holds himself to unreasonably high standards and is unable to reconcile differing parts of his personality. As a result, he also takes himself far too seriously-- such as his upset over the Goethe picture in the professor's house.

The final advice from Mozart and the immortals is an exhortation to laugh. Harry Haller never laughs, while all the immortals he strives to emulate are constantly described as laughing, dancing and enjoying themselves. This is exemplified in the climax, where Hermine-- the woman of his dreams-- offers herself to him, sexually and emotionally, for the first time. In this literal playground of limitless fantasy, Haller decides instead to stab her. He is quickly chastised for having "failed" in this matter, and in the end resolves hopefully to one day learn to laugh.

Hence the nonsensical nature of your post. I have a soft spot for Steppenwolf, but no serious reader thinks of Hesse as anything other than introductory. If you don't wish to engage in discourse of this kind then why bother making a thread on a board full of "autists" you've already decided you disagree with?

[Anonymous No.16911863]

Steppenwolf is legit one of the worst books I ever read. That book causes autism, not cures it.

[Anonymous No.16911913]

>>16911081
>>16911855
Based

[Anonymous No.16912556]

>>16911855
I never called you anything, retard. I merely pointed out your tendency to engage with form over content, like you just did once again. As if your silly psychoanalysis has anything meaningful to say. Let me give it a shot. Hmm, your willingness to posture intellectually suggests a deep inferiority complex. That might explain why you feel the need to list all Hesse's works and summarize the plot of the book.

You can be as uncharitable in your interpretation as you wish, but to hierarchize literature as you do is inane. Introductory... based on what? Reading comprehension? Hurr durr yeah older German lit is harder to comprehend. It's even harder if you can't pick up on basic themes. Might I recommend you FAUST'S OPENING MONOLOGUE:

"I have, alas, studied philosophy,
Jurisprudence and medicine, too,
And, worst of all, theology
With keen endeavor, through and through
And here I am, for all my lore,
The wretched fool I was before." (354-359)

But wait a minute, I thoughts books + knowledge = good?? That's what Plato says right?? Goethe goes on:

"Full lunar light, that you might stare
The last time now on my despair!
How often I've been waking here
At my oId desk till you appeared,
And over papers, notes, and books
I caught, my gloomy friend, your looks.
Oh, that up on a mountain height
I could walk in your lovely light
And float with spirits round caves and trees,
Weave in your twilight through the leas,
Cast dusty knowledge overboard,
And bathe in dew until restored.

Still this old dungeon, still a mole!
Cursed be this moldy walled-in hole
Where heaven's lovely light must pass,
And lose its luster, through stained glass.
Confined with books, and every tome
Is gnawed by worms, covered with dust,
And on the walls, up to the dome,
A smoky paper, spots of rust;
Enclosed by tubes and jars that breed
More dust, by instruments and soot,
Ancestral furniture to boot-
That is your world! A world indeed!" (386-409)

Woah, seems like Haller's dismissal of Goethe's ethos might have some deeper meaning that your little plot summary suggested... C'mon man, no serious reader forgets the impetus for Faust's deal with Mephistopheles. Maybe you should run back through some of those "introductory" texts and see what else you've missed.

I don't expect much with a post like this -- the thought popped in my head after a sleepless night, OBVIOUSLY not everyone feels this way. I can handle 'kys.' But what I cannot stand is pretentious pedants who don't realize how ignorant they are. You cite an author who make my point for me. Do you realize how stupid that looks? You could've saved yourself the embarrassment if you were simply capable of entertaining the idea. Stick with Plato, at least concepts like 'the Good' are spelled out for you.

Ancestral furniture to boot-
That is your world! A world indeed!

[Anonymous No.16912639]

>>16912556
Not even that anon but if you don't think Hesse is entry-tier you're a fool. Of course literature can be ranked objectively, what would even be the point if not... Hesse doesn't belong anywhere in pic related. You copy and pasted a lot without saying much, at least the other anon structured his points in a meaningful way. Everything he said was right. I also think steppenwolf went over your head...

[Anonymous No.16912671]

>>16912556
>>16912639
To clarify, yes of course books can be ranked objectively, Hesse's ideas are really philosophically shallow, his prose is second rate, and he's flat out wrong about many things. Great literature can be judged by objective standards such as historical innovation, beautiful prose, and a compelling story that sheds light on some truth of the human condition. All of which Hesse lacked.
Also plato never said books + knowledge = good. And Faust was a cautionary tale. Just delete the thread bro...

[Anonymous No.16912673]

>>16912556
god, man, you really don't have anything to say, do you? What a rhetorical black hole of a post.

[Anonymous No.16912682]

>>16912556
Bro u mad. And so, so wrong. That first anon treated you with nothing but courtesy and you call him a retard and tell him to get over himself? And then say fucking Herman Hesse isn't an entry-level writer? Brainlet take. Gtfo.

[Anonymous No.16912698]

>>16912556
The actual definition of a pseud. Faust was a faggot and Goethe painted him as one, his dissatisfaction in the opening is because of a fault in his spirit and serves as a warning to those who lust over knowledge for its own sake at the expense of eternal life. Hesse himself loved high culture and spent his life reading the classics. He is also basic bitch in terms of actual literature discussed on this board, and tends to appeal to angsty directionless teenagers/young adults, who I assume you are.

If you want to pretend all literature is equal go jack off with the postmodernists who think mud etchings in Africa and the latest Rupi Kaur poem are on the level of Shakespeare, Tolstoy and Proust.

[Anonymous No.16912711]

>>16912671
>his prose is second rate

Confirmed to have read him in translation. Hesse might be kind of a midwit, but his prose is top tier.

[Anonymous No.16912727]

>>16912711
Second rate next to Mann, and certainly in Steppenwolf

[Anonymous No.16912743]

>>16912727
Mann and Hesse are kind of like apples and oranges in that regard. No offense, but I'm getting some pseudish vibes from you, brother.

[Anonymous No.16912855]

>>16912698
baste and goodtaste