/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16898346]

why did so many of the modernists become fascists?

[Anonymous No.16898353]

>>16898346
Modernists like science and progress a lot. So do Nazis.

[Anonymous No.16898365]

>>16898346
That's not possible anon, modernists are disguised niggers

[Anonymous No.16898376]

>Gertrude Stein
>Ezra Pound
>Céline

Who else?

[Anonymous No.16898397]

>>16898376
>Céline
Based

[Anonymous No.16898400]

You didn't have to pretend to like negros as much

[Anonymous No.16898414]

>>16898346
Because they read fucking everything.
>>16898376
Didn't know Stein was right-wing. Are you taking the piss?
Anyways,
>Yeats
>DH Lawrence
>Lewis
>Eliot
Obviously not all these guys were "fascists" in the strict sense, but right-adjacent.

[Anonymous No.16898418]

>>16898414
>Her activities during World War II have been the subject of analysis and commentary. As a Jew living in Nazi-occupied France, Stein may have only been able to sustain her lifestyle as an art collector, and indeed to ensure her physical safety, through the protection of the powerful Vichy government official and Nazi collaborator Bernard Faÿ. After the war ended, Stein expressed admiration for another Nazi collaborator, Vichy leader Marshal Pétain.[5]

Good enough for me

[Anonymous No.16898430]

>>16898376
Salvador Dali

[Anonymous No.16898438]

>>16898376
Marinetti
Chirico
Papini
Evola
Ball
Drieu
Dalí
Bataille

[Anonymous No.16898466]

>>16898346
Modernism is inherently elitist.

[Anonymous No.16898476]

>>16898438
I don't think you know what modernist means lmfao

[Anonymous No.16898480]

>>16898376
Mussolini

[Anonymous No.16898481]

Joyce, king of the modernists, was a leftist.

[Anonymous No.16898490]

>>16898481
>king of the modernists
That would be Pound. Joyce would be a literal who without Pound.

[Anonymous No.16898517]

>>16898490
Kek. A literal who in Joyce's shadow

[Anonymous No.16898523]

>>16898517
>Joyce
Kek. A literal who in Pound's shadow

[Anonymous No.16898533]

>>16898523
Kek. A literal who in Joyce's shadow.

[Anonymous No.16898557]

>>16898533
Kek. A literal who in Pound's shadow

[Anonymous No.16898559]

>>16898481
I don't think you know what leftist means in that context.

[Anonymous No.16898564]

>>16898346

Because the jews made life gay and boring.

[Anonymous No.16898571]

>>16898564
Fascists made life more gay and less boring.

[Anonymous No.16898583]

>>16898414
>Lewis
Lewis was the most anti-fascist of the Modernists.

[Anonymous No.16898596]

>>16898438
>Bataille
>fascist

[Anonymous No.16898611]

>>16898346
Because modernism and fascism were obvious common sense conclusions to the path forward. The entire world viewed this to be the case. The only reason that didn't work out is because Hitler scared everyone into allying with gommies and coloring the worlds perception of certain first principles.

As a result you have the silly ideological clusterfuck of the contemporary world, guided by ancient fears and taboos and delicate sensibilities and sublimation of fact and common sense.

Our obvious future was robbed of us. Its not even that fascism and modernism were inherently war driven. If anything it was more ambitiously globalist than any other movement at the time.

Had fascists won, the world would sadly look very similar to the way it does today with global capital in charge, but the removal of taboos around race etc could be game changers.

[Anonymous No.16898616]

>>16898346
Because liberalism took a turn towards the autistic, pragmatic and logical, while Marxism was always heavily autistic. Fascism is the most closely aligned with poetry.

[Anonymous No.16898620]

>>16898557
Kek. A literal pound in Joyce's cake.

[Anonymous No.16898622]

>>16898583
Are you thinking of the right Lewis? I figured anon meant Wyndham Lewis who was seriously anti-communist, so he wrote a lot of shit that portrays Hitler as the victim and said the Communists were responsible for the Spanish Civil War and shit like that. HD is probably the least fascist of the Vorticists.

[Anonymous No.16898632]

>>16898622
In that case no, I assumed anon was talking about Sinclair Lewis. Funny how far apart from each other the two Lewis's of the modernists are.

[Anonymous No.16898641]

>>16898622
>>16898632
I assumed (perhaps most reasonably of the three of us) that he was referring to the most famous Lewis, C. S. Lewis.

[Anonymous No.16898645]

>>16898632
Oh lol, yeah Sinclair Lewis could have an Instagram account about his vegan journey he's so left wing. It's probably not him whoever anon meant.

[Anonymous No.16898652]

>>16898641
CS Lewis wasnt fascist though, he was an actual intellectual.

[Anonymous No.16898659]

>>16898652
>actual intellectual
Let's not go too far back in that closet, anon.

[Anonymous No.16898685]

>>16898376
Carlo Emilio Gadda and Pirandello you absolute brainlet

[Anonymous No.16898743]

>>16898659
What does this mean? A gay joke? I'm bisexual and married to a female. A real one anon, could you even imagine?

[Anonymous No.16899096]

>>16898743
it's a fucking Narnia joke, you asssucking utter faggot

[Anonymous No.16899116]

>>16898620
huh

[Anonymous No.16899129]

>>16898743
Does your wife peg you?

[Anonymous No.16899140]

[Anonymous No.16899164]

>>16899140
Is it interesting?

[Anonymous No.16899287]

>>16899129
No, I never liked the sensation that much. Might let a dude do it though, just depends.

[Anonymous No.16899418]

>>16899287
I take solace in knowing you are a broken freak. Get murdered.

[Anonymous No.16899461]

>>16898481
That's only believed because he was the one modernist whose work could be used to support the post-war liberal order.

[Anonymous No.16899519]

>>16898490
This is an insane post

[Anonymous No.16899539]

>>16899418
Weird, I can't say for sure, but Im probably living a better life than you, statistically speaking. Im deep enough into a wide variety of philosophy that I'm not bluepilled. I have a worldview, but it's rational and not overwhelmed by "redpills"(mostly fake and gay) or Liberal media(mostly fale and gay.)

I'm married, my wife and I never fight, we have a beautiful white daughter and son who are happy. My work is challenging but rewarding. I don't feel very broken anon.

One day though, I was reflecting on my most deeply held beliefs, and realized that I had often had transient homosexual thoughts. I was raised Christian, so I always just brushed them off and coped by saying everyone thinks what they arent supposed to. Its the same as staring into the void. Then I decided, well, lets explore those thoughts. It doesnt gross me out. It isntemorally repugnant. It harms no one else. I've always been very attracted to women, always and still have great sex with my wife. You know what I'm gonna tell her I'm bisexual. So I did, and she was happy. She's not, but she said she feels like bisexuality is natural for most people if they're truly honest with theirselves. She enjoys it as well. Overall anon, I'm pretty content, and honest with everyone in my life, even my deepest thoughts are rational and philosophically sound. I'm still learning of course, but you know man, I've been and seen worse.

Can you say the same?

[Anonymous No.16899747]

>>16899539
Let me suck your cock

[Anonymous No.16899752]

>>16898353
Nazis weren't fascists.
>>16898414
Fascists weren't right wing in any meaningful sense of the term.
>>16898611
>Had fascists won, the world would sadly look very similar to the way it does today with global capital in charge
I doubt it. Fascists wanted the people in control of the banks, if high finance did end up controlling fascism it would be overthrown via revolution because it goes against fascism's ideals.
>>16899539
Why write this longass post at someone just taking the shit on you? It's an anonymous board, just ignore people.

[Anonymous No.16899782]

>>16899752
>Nazis weren't fascists
Are you a fascist trying to kick them out of the party, or a Nazi trying to kick them out of the struggle?

[Anonymous No.16899804]

>>16899782
No, they weren't fascists. They never called themselves fascists and their relationship with Italian fascism and Mussolini was a rough one.
Philosophically national socialism takes from Schopenhauer while fascism from Hegel.

Also, pic related from Goebbels' diaries

[Anonymous No.16899812]

>>16899752
>Why write this longass post
Did you not understand anon was a faggot when he announced he was a faggot in a thread that has nothing to do with him being a faggot? He could have talked about any of the fascists who were also modernists and faggots, but instead he needed us to know he was a faggot. He's currently two hours on discord away from being a tranny.

[Anonymous No.16899817]

Do birthmarks have any meaning?

[Anonymous No.16899821]

>>16899752
>Nazis weren't fascists.

[Anonymous No.16899823]

>>16899804
No, fascism takes from the Roman fascism. Mussolini is called a fascist because that bundle of sticks next to his face are fasces. Both of their governments were modelled on the Roman one of a supreme leader of the state being a necessary evil.

[Anonymous No.16899827]

>>16899812
Faggotry truely is a lifestyle

[Anonymous No.16899838]

>>16899539
You are bisexuality because you were molested. You will destroy every relationship in your life due to this, especially your child. You will absolutely ruin her life because you decided to embrace relishing your trauma instead of fixing it.

Thanks for putting another stripper on the dole.

[Anonymous No.16899854]

>>16898376
Bernard Shaw

[Anonymous No.16899859]

>>16899854
I thought he just hated everyone?

[Anonymous No.16899864]

>>16899821
See >>16899804
>>16899823
Italian trade unions were called "fascio" fascists were a union of Sorelian syndicalists, Mazzinian risorgimento nationalists, and Italian idealists.
National Socialist conception of the state is as a means to an end while fascism's view of the state is entirely Hegelian in that the state is an end in itself. Everything is the state and nothing can exist outside of it, the individual cannot exist outside the group and it is the existence of their duality that allows the distinction to be made, like organs in a body.

Pls don't talk about things you don't know about

[Anonymous No.16899867]

>>16899859
True, pretty sure he hated himself most of all. But he was a communist and fascist sympathizer. Like many intellectuals, he had a hard on for authoritarianism.

[Anonymous No.16899869]

>>16899864
everyone agreed nazism is a form of faschism, BUT gerbel's diary shits on italian movies and some guy on 4chan is telling me otherwise. guess I'm convinced!

[Anonymous No.16899920]

>>16899864
It's a pity that those ideas of the state were already present in Roman fascism, and that the first thing that Mussolini named Fascist was a battalion, long before he made it a union and had the idea about many more unions joining, but whether you're wrong by three years or two millennia, you're still wrong.

[Anonymous No.16899946]

>>16899747
Ok
>>16899752
>Why write this longass post
Because it's fun for me, and I wished to.
>>16899812
Effort put in. You care. L o l.
>>16899838
I have never been molested. Nye. I am unmolestable in thought and form. I am mankind resplendent. You tremble before me, a coward. My daughter is the most intelligent child at her school and denied Mensa membership because "IQ is childish and has nothing to do woth character." You've insulted her. Bad things will come for you. I pity you. Beware of black dogs.

[Anonymous No.16899959]

>>16899920
Fascism was always a union, again "fascio" meant trade union. Mussolini was an anarchist before he was a nationalist. That idea of the state is entirely Hegelian and Gentile (the philosopher of Fascism) continued and corrected Hegelian logic with his Actualism.
Also, the Holy Roman Empire and the Roman empire were not the same thing.

Again, stop talking about things you don't know about.

[Anonymous No.16899967]

>>16898376
Yeats and Wallace Stevens

[Anonymous No.16900057]

>>16899959
No, fascio means that bundle of sticks, and fascio doesn't refer to any old union but a political faction. Mussolini and basically anyone who has looked at the symbol for fascism knows it refers to the bundle of sticks. It's an ancient Roman representation of political and state unity and power. The reason why earlier fascio carried this bundle is to indicate political affiliation (to signify a union in terms of a labour union or guild, obviously you don't use fascio), which is a political tradition also present in Roman times. Roman political union was also demonstrated by carrying the fasces in processions to symbolise state power.
>>16899959
>Also, the Holy Roman Empire and the Roman empire were not the same thing.
Where is this coming from? The Holy Roman Empire, which is around where modern Germany is now, is basically nothing to do with this argument. I am talking about 2000 years ago, Romans marched with fasces to show political union between the state and its supreme leader. Your timelines are all messed up already, you don't need to bring extra states into it for your own sake.

[Anonymous No.16900117]

>>16898685
the nose...underrated anon.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.16900130]

>>16899140
>I hate this modern world
>Clown world, burgerpunk man!

[Anonymous No.16900257]

>>16900057
>No, fascio means that bundle of sticks, and fascio doesn't refer to any old union but a political faction. Mussolini and basically anyone who has looked at the symbol for fascism knows it refers to the bundle of sticks.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasci_Siciliani
>Where is this coming from?
You, or whoever I was responding to said that both National Socialism and Italian Fascism draw from Rokan times, and I say that The Holy Roman Empire (Germany) and the Roman Empire (Italy) are not the same thing.

My timelines are not all messed up, the only reason some fascists LARPED as the Roman Empire was because that was when Italy was powerful, and Fascists wanted Italy to be powerful again.

Again, Fascism is a mix of National Syndicalism and Idealism. Stop talking about things you don't know about. Read a fascist book the fascists wrote.

[Anonymous No.16900452]

>>16899946
Oh look the faggot is schizophrenic. Neat.

[Anonymous No.16900492]

>>16899539
>>16899946
holy fucking based. /lit/ards BTFO

[Anonymous No.16900519]

>>16898346
Once you awaken to yourself as owner of your might, you realize that if the State has more might than yourself then there are a few ways to end that menace, depending on what suits you. You could confirm to society and gain power steadily, you could disregard the State and escape, you could seek the annihilation of the State, or... You can become the owner of the State. Mussolini realized this.

[Anonymous No.16900523]

>>16900492
Oh look now its samefagging.

[Anonymous No.16900536]

>>16900519
I AM the state. We are all the state.

[Anonymous No.16900545]

>>16900536
>We
Spooked. I am I, the State is merely my property. Or, will be, eventually.

[Anonymous No.16900556]

>>16900536
t. louis quatorze

[Anonymous No.16900606]

>>16898438
>Evola

[Anonymous No.16900615]

>>16900545
False. You are me and I bend you to my will, faggot.

[Anonymous No.16900617]

>>16898438
>Evola
>Most extreme Traditionalist ever

>modernist

[Anonymous No.16900628]

>>16900617
Eh he admired some aspects of modernism and was a Dada artist in his youth.

[Anonymous No.16900634]

>>16900628
>he was a teenager once
Okay cool but what does that have to do with his ACTUAL works which are the most extreme form of traditionalism.

[Anonymous No.16900653]

>>16900628
ur a DaDaDumbass KEKKKEEKEKKEKEKEK

[Anonymous No.16900659]

>>16900634
I don't know about traditionalism but traditionally the only thing that matters is power. If you have power, anything goes.

[Anonymous No.16900662]

>>16900653
You're mean :(

[Anonymous No.16901319]

>>16898438

>Bataille

Bataille was one of the biggest anti-fascists of his time and a hardcore stalinist.

[Anonymous No.16901338]

>>16900257
>some fascists LARPED as the Roman Empire was because that was when Italy was powerful,
Except it's not, because the US also uses fasces because their supreme leader was also seen as a necessary evil, and their senate was modelled on Roman political structures precisely to avoid a parliament.
>>16900257
>Fascism is a mix of National Syndicalism and Idealism.
Weird how suddenly you drop the whole "union" thing as soon as you have to bring up syndicates- the actual cognate for "union" in Italian. It's very funny how you keep talking while advising those you think ignorant to shut up. You can keep talking but you'll keep finding history disagrees over hundreds and thousands of years.
In fact, the US seal still has fasces in it despite not being a very strong supporter of unions.