/lit/ - Literature

[scout !!1wBNr3mLJL+ No.1685444]

“The strategic adversary is fascism... the fascism in us all, in our heads and in our everyday behavior, the fascism that causes us to love power, to desire the very thing that dominates and exploits us.” --Michel Foucault
So, what does /lit/ think of psychology and politics? Or, on a more literature-related note, what have you read that relates to the above quote?

[Anonymous No.1685555]

UH OH

SOMEONE'S READING ANTI-OEDIPUS

[Anonymous No.1685559]

>>1685444
>>1685555

fourcault

fivecault

[scout !!1wBNr3mLJL+ No.1685563]

>>1685555
Uhm, yes I've read it (and I actually detest Deleuze, although I like guattari). The quote is from Foucault, so why didn't you say "Discipline and Punish"? Anyway do you have anything to contribute?
>>1685559
awesome

[Anonymous No.1685571]

>desire the very thing that dominates and exploits us.

Being Mr. Quimper - Grant Morrison.

[GrizzlyBear !!UFPpi0sFoPR No.1685574]

>>1685444
I've read Foucault's "Discipline and punish" and Marcuses's "Eros and civilization" (about Freud's and Marx's theories)

I mostly agree with Foucault's view on power relations and with Freud's view on society.
Disagree with Marcuse's optimism about the possibility of an aesthetic education though (damn hippie...).

[scout !!1wBNr3mLJL+ No.1685579]

>>1685574
uh yeah "aesthetic education" sounds like more institutional apologetics to me

[GrizzlyBear !!UFPpi0sFoPR No.1685590]

>>1685579
There is something I don't like about Foucault (or Foucault's readers) though...
He's view on how everything is like a wire of power relations based on Nietzsche, but he still keeps that kind of prejudice, that kind of morality implied under his message: "power is bad"...
They're too paranoid... I mean, I agree about what they try to expose, but being powerful doesn't make you evil. The strong ones just CAN dominate, so they do. Who should be blamed are the passive ones, those who just whine but aren't going to do anything about it. Life is like a fight, this is not something intrinsically bad... If you're not a pussy, of course.
Don't know if I'm explaining myself well...

[Anonymous No.1685601]

>>1685563
y u h8 deleuze?

[scout !!1wBNr3mLJL+ No.1685603]

>>1685590
I kind of get what you are saying..I picked up on the paranoia too, but I think that paranoia is essential to anyone doing historical research (or any kind of research that will be provocative). Not the "paranoid schizophrenic" type of paranoia--but the level of paranoia that allows you to make connections where none are generally perceived to be (of course, this kind of thinking is often discredited and maybe for good reasons). Anyway, I kind of disagree about life being a fight, it is a fight or flight scenario, and I don't think choosing "flight" means you are a pussy--to me it's the people who seem to do neither, or to do both in a half-hearted way, that are so lame. If you choose flight, you must be a bit like Icharus..

[scout !!1wBNr3mLJL+ No.1685609]

>>1685601
I just think he reeks of armchair politics..i mean, i know that the rest of these guys are the same, but Deleuze comes across like he actually sees himself as a "revolutionary" that he understands the negro soul and all that..also, don't let him fool you, he is an academic first and foremost..he wrote PLENTY of rather dry essays on Bergson which make Bergson more boring than he has to be and he cockrides Nietzsche like nietzsche's cock will ejaculate nobel prizes all over his face. Also, Nietzsche is an inconsequential thinker, with countless people who apologize for him, for being so nebulous and boring and pretentious.

[FAGGATRON_3000 !U0FKfqmRjs No.1685610]

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Bold

[FAGGATRON_3000 !U0FKfqmRjs No.1685612]

Fraktur

[Anonymous No.1685621]

>>1685609
You think Nietzsche is boing and petentious?

[GrizzlyBear !!UFPpi0sFoPR No.1685622]

>>1685590
>He's
>His
ugh,...

>>1685603
What I've said about being a pussy is not about what kind of strategy do you use to survive, I meant that kind of morals of the weak hidden behind what should be critical thinking that tends to hate anything powerful for ressentiment without admitting it.
Marx could be one example of a philosopher that tries not to fall on this (because of his materialism). He wants the proletariat to get rid of exploitation but he never says anything about "justice" or "good", he just explains (or tries to) what happens.

[None !pSkjEcB9sQ No.1685625]

sweet

[scout !!1wBNr3mLJL+ No.1685631]

>>1685621
All German Idealists are boring and pretentious

[Anonymous No.1685635]

>>1685631
>Nietzsche
>Idealist

[GrizzlyBear !!UFPpi0sFoPR No.1685640]

>>1685635
this is what all continental philosophy haters call him

[scout !!1wBNr3mLJL+ No.1685645]

>>1685622
See I don't really know if I ever felt like Foucault was appealing to this "higher ideals" but I realize that it's pretty much implied throughout..that is the "conflict" in his books..anyway, I think when considered in a kind of distant way, any instance of exploitation (especially, the physical exploitation between individuals) is repugnant--what I get out of Foucault is that institutions are inherently about power, now if I were to go on with that and say that, yes this is why institutions like prisons and mental hospitals are "bad" I would be wrong--but I think it is very important to point out what these institutions *are* about because they are portrayed to be, or assumed to be, about very different things--these exploitative institutions are assumed/portrayed to be about other "high ideals" and they are not, as Foucault points out through historical analysis.

[scout !!1wBNr3mLJL+ No.1685654]

>>1685635
"German Idealism" was a philosophical current in the same time/space as Nietzsche..so he is normally considered to be a critic of this current (so is Schopenhauer)..I consider critics to be the progeny of who they critique, and therefore I consider Nietzsche to be the embodiment, perhaps the conclusion of German Idealism..an anyway, he really is pretentious, writing in faux-bold aphorisms like he did..as a likewise pretentious person, I can't stand him.

[Anonymous No.1685749]

>>1685654
This isn't a very solid criticism of what he's saying...

[☿ !Rrxa7zePwI No.1685751]

>>1685654
wat

[scout !!1wBNr3mLJL+ No.1685774]

>>1685749
In a way, I was just pointing out that he wasn't as revolutionary as he is made out to be.

[None !WvWWh.l.CE No.1685819]

what's it like to be dominated???

[Anonymous No.1685824]

>>1685819
It's like dominating, but the other way around

[scout !!1wBNr3mLJL+ No.1685827]

>>1685819
an interesting question, really. how do you mean?

[Anonymous No.1685831]

>>1685590

you're reading a moral system into foucault's work that i'm really not sure is there... from what i gather the message is more that we need to be acutely aware of the ways in which power channels and molds the discourse, not so much that it's inherently "bad"

[None !WvWWh.l.CE No.1685924]

>"to desire the very thing that dominates and exploits us.” --Michel Foucault

i mean whats it like to get that fulfilled