/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16840262]

Is this true?

[Anonymous No.16840267]

>>16840262
yes

[Anonymous No.16840272]

Some people like the ideas of eternal torture and are good people in general. Most of the wage cucks are like this.

[Anonymous No.16840273]

>>16840262
It would be if there were any such thing as good people.

[Anonymous No.16840286]

>>16840262
Then why is every atheist a self mutilating, cocksucking degenerate that parade nation ending ideals while trying to claim that they made history while having nothing of achievement at all? You won't answer because you this post is looking into a mirror and reflects how empty your beliefs truly are

[Anonymous No.16840289]

>>16840262
yes, and the vast majority of human beings are not good people

[Anonymous No.16840295]

>>16840262

This is the baby-tier argument against religion. No christian thinks like this, it is first and foremost a strawman, but it also completely avoids the more important discussion about how in religious systems the can be objective good, and how in their own it is not possible.

[Anonymous No.16840296]

>>16840262
While I agree with that reasoning on its own, I don't think it works to condemn all religion or religious people. Growing up catholic most of the kind people I knew were that way just because they realized that by doing so they found fulfillment and could improve the lives of others. I think the threat of hell might entice people at first but most of the time people never even brought it up, they just wanted me to be loving because it made the world better, not because I'd face eternal damnation if I didn't.

[Anonymous No.16840305]

>>16840286
>Then why is every atheist a self mutilating, cocksucking degenerate that parade nation ending ideals while trying to claim that they made history while having nothing of achievement at all?
Is that what you were like before you discovered Christianity on 4chan?

[Anonymous No.16840308]

most religious people are brainwashed from a early age and should not be chastised this harshly. it's the same as putting someone in jail for a drug addiction.

[Anonymous No.16840312]

>>16840262
nobody is a good person, good luck pretending your billion year old evolutionary survival instincts to kill and steal don't exist in special, special you. being good is a conscious effort and a choice. people that think they are good by nature are deluding themselves and are actually just cowards.

[Anonymous No.16840317]

>>16840286
When I realized this I lost a lot of my self-esteem as an atheist desu. In my teens I thought religion was objectively damaging everyone and "truth" was how humanity would improve, but I realized pretty soon that people become fucking vile without God.

[Anonymous No.16840340]

>>16840295
>but it also completely avoids the more important discussion about how in religious systems the can be objective good, and how in their own it is not possible.
Precisely, in the mind of the believer without "objective good" (i.e an omniscient perspective to see and judge all actions) there is no such thing as "good" at all, precisely the point OP's pic was making.

[Anonymous No.16840343]

>>16840308
>most religious people are brainwashed from a early age
because non-religious people are not? the reason why atheism was pushed to the masses is that this way the crony capitalists could be the new gods

[Anonymous No.16840348]

>>16840262
The person who made this is the same person who believes morality is subjective. Kind of ironic don't you think?

[Anonymous No.16840354]

>>16840343
awfully defensive. were you dragged to church as a boy and tricked into believing it too? as long as you let your own children decide, that's fine. break the cycle anon.

[Anonymous No.16840357]

>>16840317
People are born fucking vile, God or no God they will indulge their nature as we can see in every country ever.

[Anonymous No.16840359]

>>16840286
You realize there are many atheists who aren't perverse globalist degenerates?

[Anonymous No.16840360]

>>16840262
no

[Anonymous No.16840365]

>>16840354
>as long as you let your own children decide
Unless you're actually drilling your kids on philosophy and comparative religion from a young age this is basically just a euphemism for "let the TV decide for them".

[Anonymous No.16840370]

>>16840354
Once I told my 3rd grade teacher that God doesn't exist and she called my parents

[Anonymous No.16840375]

>>16840262
'Good person' seems entirely subjective in that case

[Anonymous No.16840380]

>>16840262
>” The image of sacrifice embodied by Christ is the formal institutionalization of pride: the martyr sacrifices in the image of Christ, e.g. with the promise of redemption. How easy it is to deny a kingdom with the knowledge of another waiting to be gained; the judgment of God ensures that sacrifice is met with reward. And so pride is refolded, grounded, made central. Sacrifice this life and win eternal life—and so many Pascalian wagers and forms of logic surface in the wake. But what if this wasn’t the case—what if one knew only sacrifice? Here pride recedes behind the possibility of redemption; here man only knows how to give and does not seek to receive. Who among you would sacrifice yourself in this manner? Who among you loves this world so entirely that, in redeeming it, they would not fear the coming flames? Who among you would want to know self-cruelty like this? Who among you would willfully go to hell in order to save another—to trade your spot not with the hope of reclaiming it? What constitution was born to shoulder the impossible—to suffer so that others may live?

Heaven is over brimming with the prideful. Heaven is the state, the nationalism of pride. The true redeemers of this world rest amidst fire and brimstone—would we recognize our savior as he truly is, as the charred one, the embered one, the burned-over one? The false idol descends from heaven just as the true redeemer ascends from hell.”

Just take the rapture pill OP you’ll be in good company

[Anonymous No.16840386]

>>16840305
Baptized as Russian Orthodox and never left my faith once. Try again you fucking degenerate

[Anonymous No.16840388]

>>16840365
absolutely correct. if the parent doesn't give instruction and morals, someone else will. children don't get to decide anything, they are children that have no agency whatsoever. your job is to turn your children into healthy, productive members of society, and you do that by teaching them yourself. anyone that says children should be given a choice is being disingenuous or stupid.

[Anonymous No.16840392]

>>16840354
>let your own children decide
who lets children decide anything grow up retard, next thing you are gona tell me to let them decide their gender.

[Anonymous No.16840395]

>>16840386
Stop hating your brothers, Jesus will be mad

[Anonymous No.16840412]

>>16840395
>atheist, demon worshipers
>brothers
pick one

[Anonymous No.16840415]

>>16840395
Your not my brother and don't even try to use scripture against me. You're as rotten inside like a petrified corpse, like the rest of the nation losing it's soul.

[Anonymous No.16840425]

>>16840412
>>16840415
>dehumanize others instead of reasoning with them
This is why christianity is dying

[Anonymous No.16840431]

>>16840273
this
religion is good because all people are bad

[Anonymous No.16840438]

>>16840386
Meanwhile Russia was saved from abortion, sodomy and being German cocksleeves by an atheist.

[Anonymous No.16840445]

>>16840425
>christianity is dying
he does not know

[Anonymous No.16840449]

>>16840262
>Good
>Bad
Spooked.

[Anonymous No.16840450]

>>16840412
Are you even trying to be a Christian? Aquinas, who's one of your favorite tradcath idols precisely says nature can not be evil, and neither the devil is evil by its nature.

[Anonymous No.16840454]

>>16840425
>dehumanize others instead of reasoning with them
I was going to type out a long post but we're done reasoning. I am. It's past time to reason with subversive people like you.

[Anonymous No.16840457]

>>16840445
Correct, it's just transforming into the global religion of shitskins.

[Anonymous No.16840470]

>>16840450
>Aquinas
>favorite
lamo
and what's your point you choose to be evil how does that make you my brother.

[Anonymous No.16840472]

>>16840454
>It's past time to reason with subversive people like you
As you wish, I'm ready to forgive any sinner and so is God.

[Anonymous No.16840499]

>>16840262
okay let me start with the fact that this is said by upper class white people in extremely rich and safe white countries. it is EXTREMELY easy to be a moral person in these circumstances. Don't kill, don't lie, don't cheat etc? no need to here anyways. religion is there for when you aren't in these circumstances and still need encouragement to do the right thing. say maybe itd be easy to lie and get ahead at your job, or steal something. The people who say shit like this also aren't living morally upright lives and are usually shitty people who could and would easily fuck over and/or kill someone if it meant getting ahead in life. they simply don't do it because threat of jailtime. but they say retarded shit like this to 'own' religious people. typical fedora midwits barely getting the full picture or understanding of anything.

[Anonymous No.16840511]

>>16840499
not to mention the fact that your intentions or justification do not fucking matter. if you're doing the right thing you're a good person.

[Anonymous No.16840533]

>>16840262
No religious person argues that the threat of hell is the motivating moral factor in society. Rather that without religion there is no way to ground one's moral principles, so morality becomes reduced to societal or individual fancy, which is an unstable moral standard.

[Anonymous No.16840542]

>>16840449
>Stirner
Refuted by violence and oppression.

[Anonymous No.16840554]

>>16840262
its extremely hard if not impossible to define what is "good" without God (an absolute personal creator that also fundaments everything in reality)

[Anonymous No.16840569]

>>16840262
Yes but some people aren't good and they need to be taught shit like this

[Anonymous No.16840581]

There is nothing immoral about cock sucking. Christ cucks will defend countless wsrs, millions of people killed, but get mad over harmless sex.

[Anonymous No.16840587]

>>16840438
He was the smart type of atheist (other examples of this sort would be Nietzche and Schopenhauer) who understood the vital role religion played in lifes of Russian peasantry which is why he bailed out of Lenin's cultural liberalism and for that I can forgive him 10 Holodomors

[Anonymous No.16840590]

>>16840262
This assumes that people are good. They aren't.

[Anonymous No.16840644]

>>16840262
Probably, but there aren't enough good people so we need religion to keep everyone in line.

[Anonymous No.16840666]

>>16840457
What even is this map??

[Anonymous No.16840716]

"Do what God says because you fear punishment" is the lowest exoteric level of faith and only exists because even the evilest most plebby pleb still occasionally thinks "what if I'm not gonna keep getting away with this?" and wonders whether there is a higher meaning to life, such that being a completely disconnected, self-serving egotist is really a betrayal of ultimate reality.

Religions don't have to come up with elaborate "do bad stuff, get punished" theologies. These are simply generated naturally by the constant influx of sinners who realise their sin pains them, meaninglessness pains them, and they want to understand why their intellect naturally drives them toward morality and their moral pangs naturally drive them toward intellectual understanding. Even the stupidest most selfish asshole still occasionally catches glimpses of what he always already knew, that the True, the Good, and the Beautiful are somehow intertwined and interrelated.

This impulse can't be gotten rid of, because it is part of the constitution of every soul, which necessarily participates in the True, Good, and Beautiful nature of ultimate reality. But it can be buried, smothered under layers of junk and distraction. This is why human evil is ignorance and confusion, not true evil. Becoming more and more selfish just means becoming more and more deadened to the fact that your very essence is incapable of true selfishness. It's like sinking deeper and deeper into a dream or delirium.

Faith comes in all forms. Most "secular humanists" are religious in a way very similar to peasants throughout history, who may have been illiterate in their local church dogma but who still spontaneously wanted to do and be good.

Reductive, materialist explanations of altruism can only describe, externally, a game-theoretical process of evolution. They can never explain why we SHOULD be good. In fact they tend toward moral nihilism because they reduce all oughts to ises. Yet every scientist I've ever talked to who studies the evolution of altruism was a beaming charitable altruist himself, even if he denied its ultimate moral reality.

[Anonymous No.16840731]

>>16840262
Yes. However, it's also a great misconception.
You're strawmanning Christianity if you present this as your argument against it.

For one, hell isn't something you earn your way out of with good deeds. You accept God's love and mercy to get out of hell.
This part is true even for non-Christians, however. You accept God and you'll be free. You refuse God, and you'll suffer the hell that is being without God.

As for the record, back in junior high, I was too resentful to be a Christian - though I played the part perfectly. I tried getting all my enemies into hell if I could.

[Anonymous No.16840799]

>>16840262
It's the most primitive stage of morality.

[Anonymous No.16840823]

i mean, atheists are incapable of objectively defining what "good" is no the debate is pointless

[Anonymous No.16840849]

>>16840666
Fastest growing religion by country.

[Anonymous No.16840861]

Why do athiests always seem to constantly project this image that they are good people.

[Anonymous No.16840871]

>>16840357
based hobbesian

[Anonymous No.16840878]

>>16840861
Because although god is dead we will be living in his shadow for ages to come.

[Anonymous No.16840889]

>>16840799
>it's the most primitive stage of morality
and atheists can't even get to that level

[Anonymous No.16840893]

>>16840878
>god is dead
Oh wow it's the most commonly used misinterpreted Nietzsche quote what a surprise.

[Anonymous No.16840900]

Secular society is pretty fucking schizophrenic when it comes to defining who is a good person so its just not a category to take seriously

[Anonymous No.16840917]

>>16840893
And how was it misapplied here?

[Anonymous No.16840926]

>>16840917
Maybe pick up Genealogy & Zarathustra and figure it out for yourself faggot. It's the literature board.

[Anonymous No.16840947]

>my arbitrary definition of good and evil is based on the absence of any tangible definition or basis

I feel like this is a bad take desu and is only entertained by contrarians or demoralized zogs

[Anonymous No.16840973]

>>16840926
>it's not my job to educate you, the pseud said condescendingly and presumptuously.
Sorry, I thought you might have had an interesting take to offer but apparently not.

[Anonymous No.16840984]

>>16840889
What a stupid post. You're not even talking about a godless society, but atheists as individuals, as if by contrast, adopting Christianity automatically made good people. Thus I can invalidate your absolutist post with my anecdotal evidence that the shittiest people I have met were fervent Christians, and that's not because they frowned on gays or some other attrition against modern "values" as you're imagining, but because they were plain dishonest, cheating liars who broke the vows of the very religion they associated with in complete mockery of God. Meanwhile I am by far the most incorruptible and honest person - by Christian standards, of course, since atheists in Western society are usually raised with the same basic values in mind - whom I have met in my life. I am without a doubt in the last two ranks of that model and I have lost a whole lot in the name of ethics.
Generalizations in this case are really stupid.

[Anonymous No.16840992]

>>16840984
>Meanwhile I am by far the most incorruptible and honest person... whom I have met in my life.
And you're humble too.

[Anonymous No.16840997]

>>16840992
I don't care if I don't sound humble here, it's the truth. I have always said no and always will.

[Anonymous No.16841002]

>>16840973
>it's not my job to educate you
It isn't. I'm not in the business of muddying other people's words by playing chinese whispers.
>you might have had an interesting take
It isn't my take, it's Nietzsche's. Go read it for yourself first hand, as I suggested, in Zarathustra, and Genealogy.

[Anonymous No.16841016]

>>16840997
Sounds more like some kind of superiority complex
"Everyone besides me is just so terrible that I'm the most incorruptible and honest person I've ever met"

[Anonymous No.16841041]

>>16840716
Good post nigga.
Any books in the same vein as this post?

[Anonymous No.16841076]

>>16841016
OK then, I have a superiority complex. That complex has made me non-compromising on things that other people easily compromise on. My idea of my own honesty might be flawed but the compromises I didn't take were real. I am not saying that everyone else is terrible because I cannot judge actions I don't see, but in the same situations where I didn't compromise and I could observe others, those others compromised against what would have been the ethical thing to do. Reality is hard and it's punishing me for my stubborness but I always do what I believe is just and fair even against my own interest. Whether that is not enough to validate my claim of being the most honest and incorruptible person I've met in my life, I acted better than the Christians I mentioned for sure.
Posting the strongman meme unironically to back up unironically idiotic claims is plain annoying especially since this discussion is meant to be somewhat serious.

[Anonymous No.16841096]

>>16840286
Most people you enounter in everyday life are atheists or vague agnostics and they don't do these things

[Anonymous No.16841103]

>>16841096
No, they aren't, they're just nothing. People who self identify as atheist or agnostic do this shit.

[Anonymous No.16841115]

>>16841096
Not the individuals, but society as a whole is obviously falling prey to addictive hedonism an cheap emotional thinking.

[Anonymous No.16841117]

>>16841002
This is the folly of the kind of person that utters stupidity like "it's not my job to educate you". Their default position is that they are correct about everything and don't need to justify their obviously correct opinions since the only person that could disagree with them is an ignorant retard that knows nothing, so the only argument required is to namedrop books and authors then skedaddle. It's the all in one shield and sword of pretentious idiots.

This is retarded because I have TSZ and the Genealogy of Morality, as well as Twlight of the Idols, the Antichrist, the Gay Science, Beyond Good and Evil and the Birth of Tragedy. Nietzsche talks at length about how secular movements like socialism will continue to scramble for the moral-high ground despite disowning religion because atheism does not quench their ressentiment, as we can see today. This is what Nietzsche meant when he said "God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him. Yet his shadow still looms", although we live in a secular age people will continue to believe in things like universal morality and sin.

So please, explain to me how this
>Because although god is dead we will be living in his shadow for ages to come.
Isn't an answer to this
>Why do athiests always seem to constantly project this image that they are good people.

[Anonymous No.16841125]

>>16841076
Read Juliette, bro. There's billions of people all over the world being punished for doing the right thing. Maybe in this age the wrong thing could be the right thing?

[Anonymous No.16841177]

>>16841125
Just in case, I didn't say I'm the most honest person in the world, I was just referring to my personal life and the people in it.
Either way I just wanted to reply to a stupid poster who said stupid things based on stupid opinions. Atheists are not evil because they lack faith, as atheism per se does not imply a lack of ethics. What created this godless society is that people have dismissed religion but at the same time adhered to no other ethical framework. And sadly I think as world population increases and time accelerates, there will be less and less space to develop a system that isn't about faith. So in the end I think that society needs God in order to function and develop itself beyond the cheap materialistic goals of modern society, but I have to defend my position as an atheist because my inability to believe in God did absolutely no harm to the values, again, Christian values simply because I'm a Westerner, that I was raised on. Ethical framework and religiosity are two separate things that may or may not cross over.

[Anonymous No.16841184]

>>16841117
You're reading into it a little too much there buddy. Sorry to see you've bought into this "it's not my job to educate you" meme just because you see faggots post "um read a book sweaty" on social media. As I said before, I'm not in the business of muddying other people's words playing chinese whispers, so if you're generally interested in an author's opinions, and readily have access to that content, I'm not going to mince words and lose the intended message in the process for some stranger on the internet.
>So please, explain to me how this
>Because although god is dead we will be living in his shadow for ages to come. This is a literature board, and I recommended you some literature. Go cry about it some more and read the Wikipedia synopsis if you want to be such a faggy little bitch about it.
>Isn't an answer to this
>Why do athiests always seem to constantly project this image that they are good people.
Because it isn't an answer. It doesn't address it in any way. You're just using a cliché overused, and commonly misinterpreted Nietzsche quote thinking it's some deep answer to an honestly, very plain straight forward question.

[Anonymous No.16841194]

>>16841117
You're reading into it a little too much there buddy. Sorry to see you've bought into this "it's not my job to educate you" meme just because you see faggots post "um read a book sweaty" on social media. As I said before, I'm not in the business of muddying other people's words playing chinese whispers, so if you're generally interested in an author's opinions, and readily have access to that content, I'm not going to mince words and lose the intended message in the process for some stranger on the internet. This is a literature board, and I recommended you some literature. Go cry about it some more and read the Wikipedia synopsis if you want to be such a faggy little bitch about it.
>So please, explain to me how this
>Because although god is dead we will be living in his shadow for ages to come.
>Isn't an answer to this
>Why do athiests always seem to constantly project this image that they are good people.
Because it isn't an answer. It doesn't address it in any way. You're just using a cliché overused, and commonly misinterpreted Nietzsche quote thinking it's some deep answer to an honestly, very plain straight forward question.

[Anonymous No.16841205]

>>16840262
this and circumcisions really screwed up many generations
it is honestly just fucked

[Anonymous No.16841210]

>>16840262
Yeah if you do good just to avoid hell, you're not a good person. You're a frightened person. If you do good willingly you're a good person.

[Anonymous No.16841214]

>>16841184
You're making the argument Nietzsche is saying something, you don't seem to want to say what, I'm arguing that Nietzsche's saying something else. Do you not see why it's necessary for you to reference something Nietzsche actually said to justify why your take is more accurate?

>Because it isn't an answer. It doesn't address it in any way. You're just using a cliché overused, and commonly misinterpreted Nietzsche quote thinking it's some deep answer to an honestly, very plain straight forward question.
Except it's very pertinent to the question anon asked.
This is something I've noticed just saying "God is dead" makes pseuds reflexively seethe, they will always take issue with it before they've even stopped to think what the fuck you're actually saying.

[Anonymous No.16841218]

>>16840262
Eternal torture is a gross oversimplification of the concept of hell.

[Anonymous No.16841220]

>>16841218
How do you know it's not eternal torture?

[Anonymous No.16841255]

>>16841214
>saying "God is dead"
You remind me of this dumb arthoe I used to rail that used to spout it at any opportunity she could. Didn't even know who Nietzsche was when I told her it was his quote. There's also something to say about pseudo-intellectuals' tendency to throw out "sood" whenever they're met with any sort information they don't want to accept. You aren't arguing anything at all, and I'm arguing that you should read into Nietzsche's work some more or, (if you actually are well read) revisit his work.

[Anonymous No.16841271]

>>16840286
How can someone this toxic be a true believer? I will assume you did not tell your dad that you are a massive faggot yet

[Anonymous No.16841313]

>>16841220
Hell is the state of a soul that is rejecting its own natural union with pure act (God) itself. You could call that eternal torture because that constant effort against nature is painful but at the same time such an interpretation is needlessly reductive. It's like thinking about God as an old man on a cloud.

[Anonymous No.16841325]

>>16840262
doesn't matter.
this is not literature.
this is not book.
>if you want to discuss history, religion, or the humanities, go to /his/.

[Anonymous No.16841330]

>>16841255
Thing is I've been met with no information, you've referenced nothing. Your sole "argument" hinges on the premise I haven't read Nietzsche when I've told you I have, I have yet to see any evidence you know what you're on about. You remind me of an arthoe I met myself that claimed to be a Buddhist Anglican that'd get incredibly triggered just by saying "god is dead".

Speaking of Buddhists read The Gay Science, faggot.
>After Buddha was dead, they still showed his shadow in a cave for centuries - a tremendous, gruesome shadow. God is dead; but given the way people are, there may still for millennia be caves in which they show his shadow. - And we - we must still defeat his shadow aswell!

[Anonymous No.16841341]

>>16841313
Okay and how do you know that?
>It's like thinking about God as an old man on a cloud.
How do you know he's not?

[Anonymous No.16841359]

>>16841096
Yeah, they're not explicitly bad. They're just complicit in the circus of cultural degradation, kicking back some beers after work and watching netflix before sleeping in a stupor.

[Anonymous No.16841363]

>>16841330
Yeah man, fuck me for suggesting you should revisit an author after seeing you throw around his quotations out of context for attention on the internet like an angsty teenage girl. You arthoe story doesn't check out either by the way, arthoes don't care about God, if they did they wouldn't be taking it up the ass for a subway sandwich.

[Anonymous No.16841379]

>>16841341
Reason as applied through natural theology proves both God and the immortality of the soul. It all hinges on Aristotle's argument for the first mover. The rest comes down to revelation. Read some Thomas Aquinas and if that is too hard The Last Superstition.

>inb4 how do you know that ad infinitum
Because.

[Anonymous No.16841383]

>>16840262
Yes, I’m not a good person. I’m a sinner saved by the grace of God in the person of Jesus Christ.

[Anonymous No.16841385]

>>16841363
I'm glad to know being asked to justify your claims triggers you this much. Not a surprise you believe in god and think such a thing makes good people.

[Anonymous No.16841391]

>>16841379
> The rest comes down to revelation.

[Anonymous No.16841415]

>>16841391
If reason proves the aristotelian notion of God, the likelihood of him manifesting himself within his creation through episodic suspension of the laws of nature is to be expected.

[Anonymous No.16841424]

>>16841385
>triggers you this much
Yeah I'm real triggered by some stranger closing up his avenues out of spite. Pretty telling though that you'd assume I'm a god believer. Typical for your type.

[Anonymous No.16841440]

>>16841379
>Thomas Aquinas
Retroactively refuted by Duns Scotus (pbuh)

[Anonymous No.16841444]

>>16840262
Yeah
Duh

[Anonymous No.16841449]

>>16841415
Surely if we are to take an aristotelian notion of God then creation itself is a manifestation of his well and we are born equipped with all he would command of us. Why would God appear to give some very specific laws to some Jews in the bronze age (or any other people) and then disappear for thousands of years? What would be the point of that? If to teach people the truth then that's an extremely inefficient way to do so, not befitting of an omnipotent God.

[Anonymous No.16841497]

>>16841424
So you're done pretending to have read Nietzsche and are going all in on sperging out now?

[Anonymous No.16841516]

>>16840262
The law is for Sinners, not good people.

[Anonymous No.16841522]

>>16841497
>going all in on sperging out
Take a look in the mirror buddy. I seem to have struck a nerve since you're acting so emotional and defensive. Really pathetic behavior to see from a grown man. More common in a hormonal teenage girl or a fatherless boy.

[Anonymous No.16841531]

Literally nothing stopping you from being a piece of shit person without accountability

[Anonymous No.16841538]

>>16841522
So that's a yes then.

[Anonymous No.16841542]

>>16841449
The entirety of God can be grasped solely through the human intellect. The Bible merely describes through several histories, poems and homilies a people coming to terms with and making sense of encounters of God. To imply the Jews always had God's special truth is an ahistorical construct. If you read the Bible like protestant, you'll arrive at stupid conclusions. Jesus fulfilled the struggle with all those imperfect revelations by substituting them with perfect revelation

[Anonymous No.16841560]

>>16841542
I'm unconvinced the Bible is special though, how do we know the Bible was inspired by God and that all other religious texts weren't?

[Anonymous No.16841561]

>>16841538
Whatever you have to tell yourself.

[Anonymous No.16841570]

>>16840286
I'm pretty sure the artist that created Piss Christ is a Catholic.

[Anonymous No.16841585]

>>16840262
I doubt that most people that act and do good things are doing so because they believe they'd go to hell is they didn't.

[Anonymous No.16841623]

>>16841560
The Bible is only special (and holy) insofar as it pertains to our Christian tradition. It derives its sanctity from the truth of monotheism as laid out by various philosophers and prophets and codified into a perfect system by Thomas Aquinas. At least that is what I believe. Maimonides and Averroes are close contenders to prove the validity of Judaism and Islam though.

[Anonymous No.16841740]

>>16841560
>I'm unconvinced the Bible is special though, how do we know the Bible was inspired by God and that all other religious texts weren't?
those are the kinds of presuppositions that fundamentalist Christians which are Republicans tend to have and that is mostly to do with having certain dominant personality traits. God is universal and reveals himself as much as a capacity can receive of him. One of the reasons Jesus Christ came to the world was because some people did not know God well enough. Outward typical religions are full of spiritual babes. They are the lowest common denominator of religion. Final truth requires Union with God.

[Anonymous No.16841784]

>>16840262
It's called imperfect contrition for a reason

[Anonymous No.16841869]

Intentionality, pretensionality. As a technology to keep the rabble in line, organized religion is still the greatest "invention" of all time. For the developing world, it's still reasonably effective. Fucking with the program because you dream of a positivist society that's completely free of delusion (no such thing) is nauseatingly decadent and misguided.

[Anonymous No.16841874]

>>16840262
It depends.
St John Climacus expressed a distinction that was already clear in the Desert Fathers between a slave (who tries to obey God out of fear of punishment), a mercenary (who tries to obey God out of desire for reward) and a friend of God (who tries to obey God out of love for God).
Hell (whether understood as endless conscious torment, or as annihilation, or as purgatorial cleansing) is presented by Christianity not as a carrot to be obedient but as the sad consequence of our sins against others and against God. It's simply the logical negative picture of how infinitely important God and men are, and so how infinitely grave our sins are. But it's obvious, from as early as the first epistle of John, that eternal punishment isn't supposed to serve as a carrot to keep us afraid and obedient.

Also, that picture is deeply stupid for including Judaism in this. Jews generally believe in annihilationism, and this only for the absolute worst people, and their objective isn't to serve as little time as possible in the Gehenna but to delight in the commandments here and now.

[Anonymous No.16841898]

>>16841874
But also, to just directly address the statement:
Yes, if you need the threat of eternal punishment looming over your head to be a good person then you are not a good person. That's the point - realizing you are not a good person is the first step toward repentance, followed by realizing that Jesus alone is a good person, followed by asking Him to carry you in spite of your own uselessness and sinfulness.
All may begin their Christian life as slaves guided by the fear of Hell, or as mercenaries guided by the promise of Heaven, but all must complete their Christian life as friends of God who sufficiently delight in Christ Himself.

[Anonymous No.16842043]

>>16840262
yes, they're not good people and this threat is what mollifies their evil temperament. anything else reddit cuck?

[Anonymous No.16842113]

>>16840286
Loool perfect pol tier response. Many atheists arent like this you absolute brainlet.

[Anonymous No.16842128]

What the hell does it mean to be a good person without the objective transcendent standard of goodness that is God?

[Anonymous No.16842138]

>>16842113
>muh pol
Go back to bunkerchan faggot

[Anonymous No.16842155]

>>16840286
Damn didn't know I was a cocksucking degenerate. Must invalidate my workouts and love of art and literature. And why must it be Western civilisation and art all the time? Eastern culture is based.

[Anonymous No.16842247]

>>16842128
It means that the Kingdom of Heaven is in the midst of you.

[Anonymous No.16843408]

>>16840262
I don't do good to avoid eternal torture. I do good to serve the Lord.

[Anonymous No.16843456]

Sure I guess whatever athiests have to spook themselves into to believe being good is actually real

[Anonymous No.16843504]

>>16840262
Sort of, the purpose of religion is to keep everyday people from lacking any morals and keep society intact, you dont need religion to have morals and be a good person but they fortify it and nurture it, some more than others.
>>16840286
Not everyone who doesnt subscribe to your religion is an atheist retard. Just like how every atheist isnt a fag everyone who’s christian isnt a saint. You can believe they’re wrong but it doesnt say everything about them

[Anonymous No.16843525]

>>16840262
this assumes there is some definition of "good" outside of egoism lol.

[Anonymous No.16843533]

>>16840262
I don't even think about Hell when I'm trying to be a "good person." But I think about God and how meaningless everything really is without him. Like, otherwirse, there's materially no difference between killing a person and killing an animal. Materialism is a deadend worldview.

[Anonymous No.16843549]

>>16840262
>the fish and the cross both represent Christianity
>They are still in the bin as two separate things

[Anonymous No.16843559]

>massively misinterpret religion, and dumb it down to a spiritually vacuous level
>lol look how silly it is!
People dont believe in God to be good. They are good, and so believe in God.

[Anonymous No.16843573]

>>16840262
You can't be a good Person there's always some egotistical motivation

[Anonymous No.16843701]

>>16840262
Not literature. Also, liberal secular morality is an offshoot of Christian morality, without the "icky God stuff." Cope harder.

[Anonymous No.16843746]

The idea of "good people" only exists in order to dehumanise "bad people" and justify their torment and torture. Even the idea of "people" is inherently clumsy, with many populations of humans using the concept to denote their own local group to the exclusion of all others.

[Jesus No.16843826]

>>16840262
not really. current morality defines both these concepts as depending on each other.

[Anonymous No.16843967]

>>16841194
you haven't presented an argument. He claims to have read the books, and discovered what was meant by the words inside. You do not claim to have read these works, not that that means anything, and have only claimed that he's wrong and there's another interpretation (which is right?). This is not something which can be resolved by a return to the original works, and so you trying to adjust it into that sort of argument makes you seem like a slippery midwit.

[Anonymous No.16844002]

>>16840262
What is "goodness?" Certainly the definition of goodness as predisposition towards good (which I personally lean towards) doesn't rely on one's intention in taking good action, merely that one consistently takes it.
The only way this could make sense is if one had to have "good" intentions to be good, ie, intentions to help others. But that seems to be closer to the definition of "altruistic" than good.

[Anonymous No.16844117]

>>16843967
>He claims
Only samefag would be this obsessed. Take a break big guy. Not good for your mental health.

[Anonymous No.16844239]

>>16840380
>confusing religion with culture and homogenization
>christ with christendom
Yep, you've fallen to the post 19th century meme my dude, but don't worry, there's still time if you'd only alow it.
The path to christ is a path towards yourself, to become more yourself. Hope you see the light and be happy :)

[Anonymous No.16844869]

>>16840286
>abrahamism-atheist dichotomy only
>totally disregards pagan faiths, dharmic religions or zoroastranism that didnt even think up of any eternal hell

[Anonymous No.16844898]

>>16840262
If you read the jewish scripture, you'll find their version of Hades.
If you read the extended scripture, which is Christian, you'll find a firey place that wont stop flaming. Look at the wording, it doesn't say YOU are the one who wont stop burning, it's the PLACE that doesn't stop burning.
And it also uses aionos, which means in greek something like for an undefinite amount of time, like an age, an era, in YLT translation it reads "age-during".
Fast forward hundreds of years, you can find in Quran the more clear notion of burning in hell forever, and its not just repeated just one time. Maybe an arab anon can come up and point out if the original really means unending, forever, or not.

[Anonymous No.16844903]

>>16840267
fpbp

[Anonymous No.16844910]

If God isn't some namby pamby liberal I can't believe in him.

[Anonymous No.16844979]

>>16840569
Redpill

[Anonymous No.16844982]

No? All society is predicated on the delayed threat of violence. You can force people to subdue their inherently amoral desires very easily upon threat of extreme violence.
Now if we presupposed a judgment based on the mere existence of inherent amorality then there'd be no saving anyone with religion, but the structure of religion itself strongly counter-indicates that judgment. In other words, the fact that religions universally rely on the threat of future violence proves that deities don't care about inherent malevolence in humans (assuming, of course, that any or all religions are truly divinely inspired).