[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / ic / jp / lit / sci / vr / vt ] [ index / top / reports ] [ become a patron ] [ status ]
2023-11: Warosu is now out of extended maintenance.

/lit/ - Literature

View post   
File: 57 KB, 281x475, Robinson_20Crusoe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1682274 No.1682274 [Reply] [Original]

/lit/, how many books do you know of that EVERYONE knows about but aren't very good from a literary standpoint? Pic related. Robinson Crusoe is only a big deal because it was one of the first novels published in English.

>> No.1682278

>>1682274
>>1682274
why isn't it very good from a literary standpoint?

>> No.1682279

I just read this and I can assure you, it's a big deal for more than just being one of the first novels. It's highly entertaining. If you disagree, what the fuck it wrong with you?

>> No.1682280

>>1682278
I'm not saying it's a shit novel. But it's an adventure story and doesn't really say anything new about anything a person would expect in a typical good book. This is the sort of the book that wouldn't be difficult to translate into another language because the author has no hidden meanings.

>> No.1682281

>>1682279
Just because you read it doesn't bestow it with any special significance. It isn't a bad book...but it's not a great book either.

>> No.1682282

>>1682280
>>1682280
translation into other languages is difficult on a base level, never mind bringing in 'hidden meanings'

i haven't read it and i can already tell you it's going to have a shit load of stuff about colonialism in there.

>> No.1682283

>>1682282
Truth. Also, God. Lots and lots of Godtalk and colonialismtalk.

>> No.1682285

>>1682281
No one said my having just read it gives it any highly meaning. But the fact that it has nothing more to it than a simple adventure story does not devalue it as a piece of literature. In fact, I think it's better for being a simple story. I think your notions of what makes a novel "good" from a literary standpoint need some revaluing.

>> No.1682286

>>1682282
If you want to pick at the colonial aspect you have to also read Foe by JM Coetzee, which is a reimagining of Robinson Crusoe and is completely awesome.

>> No.1682290

Last of the Mohicans
Lazarillo de Tormes
Gargantua

>> No.1682292

>>1682283
>>1682282

But does this book do anything else special? Maybe he does shipwrecked adventure stories for the first time (don't know if this is true) or he discusses themes that later become very prevalent in literature but Robinson Crusoe in itself is not a masterpiece.

>>1682285
Chill those titties bro. I'm saying it's fun to read. So was Harry Potter.

>> No.1682293
File: 386 KB, 667x670, disappointment.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1682293

>>1682283
>>1682283
just from knowing the base plot i know this novel will contain certain things.

coloniamism
he rescuses that dude Friday and i'm guessing he brings some kinda modern euro technology to the island, maybe tries to change some of the cannibal guys i think are in there

religion
i'm preeeeeeety sure, but not 100% that he only has a bible to read or something? major theme will be religion and finding God amongst the wilderness and how being close to God like that can help you survive

cultural values
i think there's cannibal tribesmen in this, dunno what his extent of contact is with them though, but im gonna guess that the moral question of whether he should try and stop them being cannibals is going to come up

>> No.1682294

>>1682292
>>1682292
but isn't that, just like, well, your opinion, man?

>> No.1682298

>>1682294
Sarcasm aside, saying a book is genius because it was written a few centuries ago is shit logic.

And you haven't actually read this specific book have you? I'm sure wikipedia has been very helpful though.

>> No.1682299

>>1682298
>>1682298
please tell me where i said it was genius
then we'll talk sugartits

>> No.1682300
File: 40 KB, 435x435, disapointment 2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1682300

>>1682299
>>1682299
forgot my picture

>> No.1682303

>>1682299
Oh no, you've never said it was genius. Just implied that book you never read was.

Rather than getting on my case about Robinson Crusoe, why not offer up a different book that is old/well-know (and you've actually read) and why THAT'S so amazing.

>> No.1682305

>>1682303
>>1682303
no i never even implied it
the OP said 'whats so special'
and i said

well it contains these elements that i know just from knowing the story/can deduce

x
y
z

then YOU said i think it's genius because it's written a couple hundred years ago.

i never implied that and you just jumped to conclusions bro.

don't worry, i accept your apology.

>> No.1682306
File: 794 KB, 1000x823, RC_sm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1682306

>> No.1682308

>>1682292
I didn't think there was anything particularly special about it when I read it, aside from the fact that it was one of the first English novels. At best, it's a snapshot of the time during which it was written.

>> No.1682311

oh look at me I'm hating on classics lol I'm so smart and edgy

>> No.1682309

>>1682303
>>1682303
oh didn't see that last part.

the book i'm going to offer up is either:

the canterbury tales - chaucer
the divine comedy (lets limit it to inferno for ease) - Dante

>> No.1682317

>>1682305
You're defending an 18th century Hardy Boys novel and the only reason why you would even care to is because it came from the 18th century. Why you would care to when you've never even read the novel is beyond me.

Let's not get sentimental about the age of our books, okay guys?

>> No.1682319

>>1682317
>>1682317
i just wanted to show you that there was more to the novel that just being 'one of the first novels published in english'

which it wasn't btw

i think i proved that point, but we can talk about how dantes inferno or canterbury tales are important if you like

>> No.1682337

or we can not, but it's up to you

>> No.1682349 [DELETED] 

>>1682309
You're an complete imbecile. Go back to Ender's Game and Dune and don't come back.

>> No.1682350

>>1682282

Ignore this twat - typical Brit who can't read in more than one language. Illiterate, savage island.

>> No.1682358

>>1682319

>dantes inferno or canterbury tales

What the fuck has poetry got to do with Robinson Crusoe?

anyway, my suggestion for novel everyone knows, but which really isn't very good would be War and Peace. It's like a long, overblown Mills and Boon romance. I got love for Tolstoy, but how this came to be seen as his masterpiece is beyond me.

A la Recherche de Temps Perdu left me cold as well - 7 books of an old poof banging on about his memories, jesus fuck.

>> No.1682362

>>1682358
>>1682358
you think translating a text is easy?
oh boy.

>>1682358
>>1682358

he said ', why not offer up a different book that is old/well-know (and you've actually read) and why THAT'S so amazing'

and i offered two.

>> No.1682369

>>1682362

>you think translating a text is easy?

Nope - I make a fair part of my living doing it, and if it were easy, then anyone would be able to do it and no-one would pay me.

And if you think that Chaucer is no good from a literary standpoint, then you're holding onto the idiot ball even tighter than usual. You know this language we're using, English? If not for Chaucer you'd be speaking fucking French.

>> No.1682373

Robinson Crusoe is a fantastic, entertaining and swashbuckling adventure stories. There are hundreds of lessons and messages in the book, the just aren't hidden very deep. That's because the writer had no formal higher education. But just because it isn't 2DEEP4THEMASSES doesn't mean it's bad.

>> No.1682379
File: 12 KB, 427x410, disdain.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1682379

>>1682369
>>1682369
i said chaucer IS good from a liteary standpoint...
please actually read the thread before posting
if you don't think translating a text is easy why did you reply
>Ignore this twat - typical Brit who can't read in more than one language. Illiterate, savage island.
when i said
>translation into other languages is difficult on a base level, never mind bringing in 'hidden meanings'

>> No.1682383

>>1682379

>i said chaucer IS good from a liteary standpoint.

Then read the fucking thread, nimrod. It's about OVER-RATED LITERATURE.

As for saying people should ignore you, it's just good general advice, particularly when you're talking about something you really know nothing about.

For what it's worth, translating basic texts is pretty simple - this afternoon I did a menu and it took about 25 minutes, and was an easy 20 euros. Translating anything specialised is hard, insurance documents and the like - this is the bread and butter for most translators, but it's not "basic text".

Translation of poetry is ungodly hard - you effectively have to be a poet yourself, translating a novel is actually hardest, because of the lengthy concentration and the need ot maintain a consistent style throughout.

Basic text is pretty simple though.

>> No.1682389

>>1682383
>>1682383
are you a fucking idiot?

the OP said:
>why not offer up a different book that is old/well-know (and you've actually read) and why THAT'S so amazing.
make sure you read that
and now you can connect that
the part where he says ' offer up a different book that is old/well-know (and you've actually read) and why THAT'S so amazing.'

and then realise that i posted CANTERBURY TALES AND INFERNO IN RESPONSE TO THAT

DO YOU UNDERSTAND IT NOW

yeah we're discussing translation on the literature board and you use menu's as an example.
i was thinking more along the lines of translating Dante's Inferno, i've actually studied translation (translated some middle english myself) and i know that poetry can be said to be basically untranslatable from certain languages to others.

you don't have to think that because you ARE a translatior you're the only one who knows ANYTHING about translations.

you can't even read the thread competently.

>> No.1682394

>>1682293
>you can analyse tacky science fiction books or even twilight in a similar way
>Twilight confirmed for very good from a literary standpoint

>> No.1682405
File: 20 KB, 370x300, u_mad_He_mad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1682405

>>1682389

Wow, you wrote all that and all I read was "I'm a huge faggot and I have no idea what I'm talking about. Shame really.

>(translated some middle english myself)
>translated
>middle English

Fuck off and come back when you've actualy learnt another language properly, son.

>> No.1682409

>>1682389

>(translated some middle english myself)

>(translated some fail into greentext stories about imaginary hipster chicks)

FTFY

>> No.1682413
File: 668 KB, 984x1836, LAYING DOWN THE LAW.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1682413

>>1682405
>>1682405
hahahahahahaa okay then
real mature bro

u mad as fuck i proved your faggot ass wrong

tripfriends 1
anonymous 0

know your place anon.

>> No.1682420
File: 349 KB, 1026x3896, BrownBear the Faggot.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1682420

>> No.1682426

>>1682413

>proved your faggot ass wrong

Wut?

All you proved is that you can't speak any language than English, and that you're utterly retarded when it comes to translation, oh, and you proved that you can move the goalposts with everything you type.

When I went to university, Middle English was just considered required reading. We never really considered it to be a foreign language that needed "translating", and none of us would have been caught dead reading it in modern English.

Then again, I went to a proper university, not Goole Poly or wherever the fuck you're currently wasting the last of your teenage years.

Cheers for proving me wrong though, it's always nice to receive correction from teh mouths of children.

>> No.1682427

>>1682413
I'm on your side in this debate because the rest of these fuckers have been too busy flexing nuts to actually read the thread, but that image is just douchey.

>> No.1682428
File: 58 KB, 425x319, room-full-of-people-who-care-31548-1265753690-30[1].jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1682428

>>1682420
>>1682420
see pic

>>1682405
>>1682405
>all i read was "I'm a huge faggot and I have no idea what I'm talking about. Shame really.

>continues to greentext what i posted

your status:
TOLD [ ]
fucking TOLD [ ]
TOLDasaurus rex [ ]
leo TOLDstoy [ ]
cash4TOLD.com [X]

>> No.1682429 [DELETED] 

>>1682427
I concur.

>> No.1682430

>>1682429
lol

>> No.1682433

>cash4TOLD.com [X]

I revise my earlier estimate. You're still in sixth form, aren't you?

>> No.1682438

I sometimes find brownbear to be obnoxious,
in this case I feel anon is being obnoxious and brownbear is on point.

>> No.1682440

>>1682438

>anon is being obnoxious

Of course I'm being obnoxious, you repugnant white knighting fucktard.

>> No.1682441

>>1682426
>>1682426
herpa derp all i saw was 'lol i am a faggit' wen readin dis post
sorry brah!

no but seriously you just happened to skim over most of my post, specifically the part about why i offered up Canterbury Tales and Dante's Inferno

>all you proved that you can't speak any language than English
>any language than English
>thank English
i think you might need to polish up on English first son.

yeah middle english is usually required reading, however, i looked at actual modern translations for my studying and then attempted to translate a bit of it myself in order to compare and contrast both the modern translations AND my own.

>lol ur only 18 so you can't prove me wrong
cool argument bro

>>1682427
>>1682427
i'm sorry anonymous i felt it appropiate but i realise i was wrong in posting it so rashly

i'll delete it now

>> No.1682443

>>1682438

Drop you trip somewhere, Brownhole?

>> No.1682444

Anything by Anne Rice.

>> No.1682445

stop samefagging bro
please realise that some people judge posts on their merit, and don't hold prejudice to the person posting them!

>> No.1682453

>>1682441


>liteary standpoint. (spelling)

I wasn't going to pick up on your errors, because I assumed they were typos, and I think it's pretty poor form to bring it into the argument when you're arguing on the internet - everyone drops letters and words.

Still, it proves you're running out of arguments.

Anything else?

Oh and

>i looked at actual modern translations for my studying

They'd have kicked you out of my school, let alone university. Enjoy your second rate education and misunderstanding of the underpinnings of your own language.

And what you were doing wasn't translating, it was rephrasing.

>> No.1682454

>>1682438
... actually that was me. I like to criticize some of the tripfags around here, but I feel it undermines my efforts when anon is overtly douchey.

>> No.1682457

I agree if you read it just as any random adventure book today it isn't the best. What I liked about it the best was the view it gave of what a real hero was like at the time. Robinson Crusoe is a strictly rational man in the course of action he takes but he is still bound to his nature that obliges him to seek out on adventure. He is offered wealth and stability several times, but every time he decides to gamble it all.

The colonialist perspective is present as well but isn't as interesting because it's not intended per se.

>> No.1682465
File: 35 KB, 480x480, awww yeah i saw dat shit.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1682465

>>1682453
>>1682453
>kicked me out of university for looking at 2 modern translations, comparing those 2 to my modern translation.
>the Canterbury tales was just a secondary text
>the 2 main texts were Sir Gawain and the Green Knight and Dante's Inferno
>mfw
yeah okay

thanks for totally addressing all the points i raised and not just picking and choosing.
are we done now?
you're posting as anonymous so you don't have to take responsibility for anything you've said here.
remember that.

>> No.1682483

>>1682465

>implying BB has taken responsibility for anything in his life

>implying he isn't a trust fund baby

>implying BB is his real name not just a tripfag anon identity for trolling.

>> No.1682496

>Sir Gawain and the Green Knight and Dante's Inferno
>chaucer

What fucking mickey mouse shit are you studying anyway?

And if you read modern versions of Chaucer, you may as well read Shakespeare in modern Emglish as well, ecause you're clearly retarded.

"Should I top myself? That's a tough one.Should I stand up for myself, or can I just not be arsed?" [Hamlet]

>> No.1682507
File: 67 KB, 640x480, 185322.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1682507

>>1682483
>>1682483
thats CAPSGUY who's the trust fund baby you silly sausage

>>1682496
>>1682496
this is just one course unit, and i'm not particularly enjoying it, but it's almost over now.

once again you misunderstand
we looked at AND THEN READ the original chaucer AND THEN we compared 2 modern translations to the original, each other and our own translation

do you understand now?

pic related, it's my copy of the Canterbury tales

>> No.1682513

>>1682507
fake pic

>> No.1682512

>>1682507

You still didn't say what the course was. You're doing Cultural Studies or something, that's my guess.

I understand fine: you struggle with difficult books, and you're studying at a pisspoor university.

>> No.1682518

>>1682512
>>1682512
no i'm studying English Literature

>> No.1682525

>>1682518

Well, good luck with that.

>Dante
>English literature

I'm like totally whatever

>> No.1682534

>>1682525
>>1682525
as i told you one of my course blocks things is called something like 'textual communities' and we study stuff like translations

>> No.1682547

>>1682534

What I don't understand is how you can study, and be on 4chan 14 hours a day, and read the entirety of western fiction and literary criticism, and sex all these fine hipster chicks you meet while you're out reading in cool bars. There's only 24 hours in a day man, how do you fit it all in?

>> No.1682550

>>1682547

It's all made up - he's a tragic shut-in with no friends and awful teeth

>> No.1682555

>>1682534

>we study stuff like translations

Such incredible command of the English language. Surely an Oxford man?

>> No.1682559

>>1682547
>>1682547
well i don't know about you guys but i'm never in Uni for a full day

usually 2-4 hours a day and sometimes with a break inbetween.
e.g. 9-10am then 2-3pm

during these hours i usually head off to the library to do some work, i do that for about an hour and a half-two hours
so that's maybe 12:30
then i head across the road or to an eatery nearby for food
12:40
then it's straight to a coffee shop to engross myself in a good book (currently reading the things they carried - tim o'brein) where most of my encounters occur. However, after 2-3pm i sometimes go for a coffee alone/a drink with friends, and when having the coffee i can read there.

i just manage my time effectively ya dig?
and i'm not on here for 14 hours a day, it's usually a lot lot lot less than that but i guess it just seems that way coz i post from my phone sometimes when out and about

>> No.1682564

>>1682518
What university?

>> No.1682583

>>1682555
Perhaps an Oxford Brookes man.
Chortle chortle chortle.

>> No.1682610

>>1682583

Who rattled your cage, shitbird?

Where did this cunt come from anyway? I turn my back for a minute, and there's a kajillion new tripslags. At least with Brownbear and co you know where you are the land of the pretentious children

>> No.1682615
File: 56 KB, 720x301, whydoitrip.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1682615

>> No.1682634

>>1682615
The reason I think the entire tripfag vs anon debate is retarded, is that if one doesn't want to remain anonymous, surely there must be much better lit communities on the internet where anonymity isn't considered the norm; why waste time here?

>> No.1682637

>>1682634

No, your retarded.

>> No.1682640

>>1682637
My retarded?
Thanks bro, I must have dropped it somewhere.

>> No.1682643
File: 61 KB, 640x480, trolledlol.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
1682643

>>1682640

ooh, you bit down on that troll pretty hard.

tard.

>> No.1682644

>>1682643
nigga plz

>> No.1682677

>>1682583
Anything wrong with Oxford Brookes? I don't study there if that's what you're wondering.

Where do you study?

>> No.1682685

>>1682677
There is, of course, absolutely nothing wrong with Oxford Brookes at all.

Nice try. I'm not sharing personal information like that on 4chan.