/wg/ - Writing General

[Anonymous No.16763090]

re: New and improved edition

previous: >>16745570

For Prose:
>The Art of Fiction
>On Becoming A Novelist
>Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft
>How Fiction Works
>The Rhetoric of Fiction
>Steering the Craft

For Poetry:
>The Poetry Home Repair Manual
>Western Wind: An Introduction to Poetry

Related Material:
>What Editors Do
>A Student's Introduction to English Grammar
>Garner's Modern English Usage

Suggested books on storytelling:
>The Weekend Novelist
>Aristotle's Poetics
>Hero With a Thousand Faces
>Romance the Beat

Suggested books on getting your fucking work done you lazy piece of shit:
>Deep Work
>Atomic Habits

Other Resources
>General grammar/syntax/editing help
https://owl.purdue.edu/owl/purdue_owl.html
> When/where/how should I write?
https://jamesclear.com/daily-routines-writers
> What software should I write with?
https://self-publishingschool.com/book-writing-software-best/
> Amazon Publishing to make that KDP monie
https://kdp.amazon.com/en_US/help/topic/G200635650
> Be like Charles Dickens and write serially
https://www.royalroad.com/
> Basic overview of the Screenplay format
https://screenwriting.info/

[Anonymous No.16763152]

>>16763090
University is free in my country. Should I move to the capital to study literature, minimum four years, or should I stay in my small retarded town studying sociology, can do it in two years?
I wanna be a writer, by the way.

[Anonymous No.16763163]

Getting real close to finishing this chapter. I can't believe I'm getting emotional over two characters saying farewell to eachother.

[Anonymous No.16763173]

>>16763152
That's something you'll have to decide, listen to your heart and what you want the next 4 years to look like for you

[Anonymous No.16763218]

Under which circumstances should I use "-" instead of "()"?

[Anonymous No.16763223]

>>16763218
if you don't use emdash—you're a pleb and never gonna make it.

[Anonymous No.16763228]

>>16763163
I hope your readers will be able to feel at least a third of what you are experiencing right now. Keeping yourself engaged with your text is the first step to engaging your readership. Godspeed, anon.

[Anonymous No.16763238]

>>16763223
It's just not as common in my language. At least, I haven't encountered it as often as I have in English.

[Anonymous No.16763298]

>realize that what I'm writing is shit
>no sense of aesthetic or beauty
>just keep on writing, keep on repeating to myself that editing will fix it
>keep deluding myself, but never stop writing
I'm afraid to stop and actually read what I've done.

[Anonymous No.16763371]

>5721 words
>still chapter 1
>still introduction to chapter 1
I'm not sure if I'm doing this wrong. I thought I only had enough material for a short book, but it seems I am naturally partial to developing scenes really fucking slowly, detailing character thought, action and description. I feel like I'm making a tremendously amateurish mistake (as it is to be expected of an amateur), but I don't know how much is me not knowing better and how much it is me knowing what I like and how I like to write.

[Anonymous No.16763636]

>>16763371
There's an anon here who has a theory that chapters should be no longer than 3000 words and each chapter should be its own short story

[Anonymous No.16763646]

>>16763636
He may be writing children's books

[Anonymous No.16763795]

My book club is reading The Round House by Louise Erdrich. It's on the same tier as the schizo shit on /wg/. How did it won the best book award? The entire book is
> I'm a native American and whitey is oppressing my people REEEEEEEE
> our families are broken REEEEEEEE
> my mommy got raped REEEEEEEE
> who raped mom? Who? WHO???? REEEEEEEE

I'm not finished with the book yet, but I bet it was a white guy

[Anonymous No.16764191]

Anyone have something they want reviewed? I'll be here for a few hours before bed and I'm willing to give some series critique, line edits, end notes, dialogue check-ups, or narrative feedback.

[Anonymous No.16764208]

Chapter done and released to the wild, and now it's time to fall into a fucking coma until I feel like doing the process all over again.

[Anonymous No.16764210]

>tfw just discovered that there's someone out there who makes four digits by writing smut fanfics

I know nothing about reader demographics. Is smut what people want when they read stories? Should I branch out into it?

[Anonymous No.16764237]

>>16764208
post link to chapter you fag

[Anonymous No.16764280]

>>16764237
sure https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/31062/saga-of-the-cosmic-heroes/chapter/583412/chapter-50-memories-of-toscana-the-words-from

[Anonymous No.16764287]

>>16764280
Is this yuri?

[Anonymous No.16764291]

>>16764287
maybe

[Anonymous No.16764301]

>>16764210
I should clarify that it's four digits monthly.

>>16764280
If this is really yours then keep doing God's work anon.

[Anonymous No.16764376]

>>16764301
thanks anon, I didn't draw the pic but I did commission it.

[Anonymous No.16764964]

>>16763795
>Book club
How do you still have a book club going on with all this shit going on?

[Anonymous No.16764981]

>>16763298
Are you Marcel Proust?

[Anonymous No.16764987]

>>16764964
it's on Zoom, of course. Brave people can use curbside pickup for their physical books and everyone uses Overdrive or Libby

[Anonymous No.16764991]

>>16764987
>Zoom book club
meh

[Anonymous No.16765057]

>>16764991
in my irl experiences, book clubs usually consisted of me and the host. A zoom book club can't be worse than that

[Anonymous No.16765089]

Hey could you post fanfiction that you wrote here or no?

[Anonymous No.16765090]

>>16765089
I don't see why not.

[Anonymous No.16765092]

>>16765089
Yeah, just make it hot though

[Anonymous No.16765122]

>>16765092
I was thinking of making it sweet and nostalgic.

[Anonymous No.16765164]

Hey I’m writing a story where this guy goes to a town, sleeps and then wakes up, finds out a child is missing and is blamed on by the mother or the couple (even though he didn’t do it). He goes to the general store and grabbed what he needs and gets out of town while people are looking at him. Is this a reasonable response to the townsfolk or do i have to get the sheriff involved to say i know you didn’t do it and blah blah blah. Because he got to get out of town to advance the plot. Thank you guys

[Anonymous No.16765189]

>>16765164
It all depends on how well you establish the mother/couples reputation in town. If they have a high one then and they looked down on the man then the rest of the town would to. Having the sheriff come in would give a new character that the main man can trust and the audience can know that the sheriff has a actual since of justice.

[Anonymous No.16765416]

Just started writing my first book, and in-between sessions as a break am writing short stories using the same characters. I went to film school for five years (go ahead and laugh) where I majored and graduated with a screenwriting degree, but after another five years without any luck getting employed, I've decided to shift focus towards writing.

Just posting this here as kind of a personal bookmark. Once I've said I'm doing something publicly is the only time I actually get it done.

[Anonymous No.16765507]

My non-fiction, technical book is officially 52 pages long. This is going to make me money and it's more dignified than selling smut

[Anonymous No.16765603]

>>16765416
Do you want to write scripts or novels now?

[Anonymous No.16765616]

>>16765603
I gave up on scripts for now and am focusing on my novel. I may adapt some of my scripts to novel format in the future.

[Anonymous No.16765889]

The grammar and syntax hasn't been looked just want to know if anybody enjoys it. Thanks xxxxxx https://pastebin.com/schqHFyV

[Anonymous No.16765896]

>>16757907
critique and write the entries in this thread, frens

[Anonymous No.16765944]

Moesha locked her bedroom door softly, as to not wake Lupita, and snuck out the inn. The night was lonely and Moesha like the privacy that it offered. Jamarcus still hadn’t sent a letter. She kept up a cheerful mood for Lupita during the day, but the facade exhausted her.

After a long walk, Moesha sat on a bench near the sea. She pulled out her handkerchief and sobbed quietly. The sea waves rolled into the bay and their steady cadence calmed Moesha. She blew her nose and looked over the grey-blue water that reflected the white moonlight. Full of sadness and out of tears, Moesha got up and walked back to the inn.

While on the path, she looked up at their room. Lupita was asleep at the windowsill. A large, dark creature fluttered over her head.

“Shoo!” Moesha said.

The creature landed on the windowsill and looked straight at Moesha. It was a large bat, a meter tall or more. The bat looked directly at her with its red eyes.

Moesha narrowed her eyes and ran into the inn. She grabbed a fire poker from the lobby and ran up the stairs, three steps at a time. As soon as she unlocked the door, she ran in and raised the poker above her head, but the giant bat was gone.

Lupita took heavy, labored breaths. She held her hand to her throat, as if it were in pain.

“Poor dear,” said Moesha.

Moesha helped her friend back into bed and tucked the blankets tight into the mattress. Unfortunately, Moesha went into the restroom. Had stayed by her friend’s side a bit longer, she would’ve immediately called the doctor.

“I gotta get my hairs done,” said Lupita softly. “I gotta get my nails done.”

[Anonymous No.16766027]

>>16763152
You're gonna be unemployed either way, but option 1 wastes over four years of your life, and option 2 only two years, so take your pick

[Anonymous No.16766030]

>>16763218
You shouldn't use () under any circumstances outside mathematical texts or comedy.

[Anonymous No.16766041]

>>16763152
please ffs study stem

[Anonymous No.16766412]

What should be the happily ever after ending of a romance novel when the characters are
> an older, married man, has children, somewhat hates wife, but likes the stability of marriage
> young, hot woman

I'm writing for the niche of middle aged man who is unhappy in his marriage. What is their ideal ending?
> wife accepts that her husband has a mistress and overlooks their romance
> divorce wife, become single father and have a string of girlfriends
> divorce wife, remarry with hot gf
> girlfriend moves in, create harem
> something else?

[Anonymous No.16766429]

>do a simple proofreading round to fix typos and shit
>word count increases by several thousands each time
fucking how

[Anonymous No.16766465]

>>16766412
The girls agree to polygyny

[Anonymous No.16766498]

>>16766465
How does this epilogue sound?

> mc has two wives
> younger one is pregnant
> everyone gets along, including children and in laws
> he's now flirting with his third gf, who is even younger than second wife

[Anonymous No.16766627]

>>16766412
Man discovers conscience, commits suicide, wife finds someone better

[Anonymous No.16766653]

>>16766627
>Man discovers conscience, commits suicide, wife reveals she was also cheating, goes on to marry the guy she's been cheating with. Mc die a cuck and a tragic hero. Kino

[Anonymous No.16766656]

>>16766653
Pretty kinky fantasy, anon, but I don't judge

[Anonymous No.16766682]

>>16763090
How do I become a playwright?

[Anonymous No.16767002]

>She rose when everyone had started dreaming, picked up the board, and left for the shore. The rising tide was raking black twigs and dead jellyfish onto the sand. Moonlight slashed like a knife and the water was as cold, but she felt her heavy lungs lightened by the waves rumbling softly in the distance, dissipating into foam under her feet. A breeze made an old cut sting with salt and once again she saw the black expanse. She did not think about coming back.

Reposting. It's 1,200 words and I'd appreciate any feedback, particularly regarding plot and subtlety.
https://pastebin.com/BvTivdca

>>16764191
please do mine bro

[Anonymous No.16767164]

>>16766682
You wright plays

[Anonymous No.16767186]

is writing on paper better than typing everything? I've heard it being recommended before so I got a hardbacked A4 notebook to give it a try even though I barely write with a pen nowadays.

[Anonymous No.16767202]

>>16767186
I feel more in control writing on paper or on my PC typing. On may laptop it feels claustrophobic as fuck or something idk. Writing out notes is definitely best on paper anyway.

[Anonymous No.16767226]

I’m here now and again. If you have any questions or want to know something about the industry. Ask etc etc.

[Anonymous No.16767234]

>>16767226
Why are there so many females working in publishing?

[Roy No.16767285]

>>16767234
This I actually don’t know. The statistics on it are pretty interesting at least. In Canada the majority of workers in the publishing industry are female, and the majority of CEOs/top level managers are female as well. While I can’t confirm I suspect that the majority of readers/buyers are female as well. And while I don’t have the USA statistics, I suspect they are similar to Canada’s.

But as for reasoning? Couldn’t tell you. I can hazard a couple of guesses, but nothing concrete. It could be that because publishing isn’t a money printing business, most hungry business men stay away from it. Could be that because publishing requires a higher level of socialization and passion, more women just naturally fall into it than men. And it could be as simple as most women come into the business from doing it as a hobby. And most men don’t have writing as a hobby.

But shit anon, that’s a good question.

[Anonymous No.16767315]

>>16767285
Too be honest I wasn't really hoping for a concrete answer, just your impression.
I've also been getting the feeling that something like 70% of people published are women, maybe even greater, do you see anything like that?

[Roy No.16767417]

>>16767315
>Too be honest I wasn't really hoping for a concrete answer, just your impression.
In that case, I think it’s more of the hobby thing. I took a 4 year program to learn writing and publishing, and the vast majority of people who were in the program. There were more men originally as well, but there was still a lot of women. And when you talked to them, almost every single one had some sort of writing background. Wether it was as simple as writing in a diary everyday, or as something as large as actually constructing a novel. The men had less experience doing these kinds of things (myself included.) The men were also more egotistical I found, often defending their pieces more blatantly and not wanting to unlearn bad habits. But these people dropped out quick and there’s women who do the exact same thing.
I also think some men just have trouble working in the industry because it is female dominated. There’s like 4-5 guys left, with the rest being a sea of women. It’s harder to hack it in an industry that is majority the opposite gender. I don’t think it needs to be changed, but I think people should prepare themselves a bit more before going in.

The only final thing I’ll say is that the whole “well you’ll get published because your straight, and white, and male!!!” Doesn’t help. Like read the damn room.

>I've also been getting the feeling that something like 70% of people published are women, maybe even greater, do you see anything like that?
I can most definitely see that. But keep in mind, that would be including publishing at all levels. Small blogs, tiny micro presses, zines, etc etc are small, but would be heavily female dominated. Pulp books would be heavily female dominated. And while a lot of people try and say that large scale publishing, including the stuff that gets famous, is heavily male dominated, I’d still argue that it’s at minimum 50/50. For every game of thrones, there is a twilight.

[Anonymous No.16767599]

>Plot out entire story in head
>Sit down to write it
>Nothing comes out

Every fucking time.

[Anonymous No.16767622]

>>16767599
>plot out entire story in head
>realize it's just a guy going through life doing nothing special or noteworthy

[Anonymous No.16767700]

How do I plot the opening of the first scene where I want to establish that the protagonist's goal is to avoid responsibility? My first idea is to have him refuse to answer the front door despite it getting louder and him mother screaming at him to do it. But I don't want there to be any conflict because it is just to establish his goal.

[Anonymous No.16767848]

>>16767622
>do this
>write it down anyway
feels bittersweet man

[Anonymous No.16768253]

>>16767700
It literally all depends on what your story is about, who your character is, how your telling your audience etc. More details are needed for better help.


That being said, there’s a couple of ways of doing this. As an example, take the reader on a trip back from his work to his house. Not only can you flesh out the world, but you can realy flesh him out. He sees a homeless person. Does he avoid eye contact? Does he pretend he doesn’t exist? If so explain his rational behind it. Does he briefly see a crying child? What does he do about it? Etc.

If you want him to stay at home, maybe a neighbour drops by looking from some help. A tool perhaps. And he just avoids him because he doesn’t want to confront him to get the tool back later. Or maybe the neighbour just wants him to feed their fish for a week while they are out.

Or hell jut make it subtle and simple. His mother has a rule in the house that whoever uses dishes has a responsibility to wash them. So he uses paper plates.

Or just tell your audience that he is avoids responsibility and move on if that’s he kind of story you’ve got as well

[Anonymous No.16768267]

>>16767700
Are you writing your diary?

[Anonymous No.16769031]

anyone else find the internet to be a huge barrier to writing? I'm so easily distracted by browsing websites

[Anonymous No.16769220]

>>16769031
I believe that to be very common.

[Anonymous No.16769264]

>>16767002
1/2

Hi anon,
I'll take a look at a few elements of the story that stand out to me and check in on plot and subtlety as well for you.
I had some problems with plot and subtlety. When writers attempt to be subtle there is the risk that what you know in your head doesn't translate onto the page and the reader, consequently, won't 'get it'. This isn't because the reader is dumb but because you have formed a conclusion and then obscured the elements that lead up to it in a way that reflects your knowledge of the story.
What I gather from the reading is that a girl who has a potentially terminal illness (lung cancer?) is moved to an island with her mother in order overcome her disease. However, somewhere along the way her mother attacked her with a knife and she killed her in self-defense(?).

Here are some of my issues with the story. There isn't enough plot to have as little characterization and not enough characterization to have this little plot. The whole story is Rana going night-surfing and reminiscing. At the end of the story I still don't know much about Rana. What motivates her, what her goal is, what really happened between her and her mother, how she feels about her disease and consequently her remaining years of life and eventually death. I don't even know how old Rana is. These are the problems of subtlety and should lead to questions on your part like; why do I need to be subtle, and what should I be subtle with.
In "Hills Like White Elephants" Hemingway is subtle with the pregnancy and upcoming abortion. In trade we know the characters feelings quite intimately as they argue around the procedure. Here, I feel like you have tried to be subtle about everything, her disease, her mother, Rana herself. The result is that there is nothing concrete from which the reader can build out an understanding of the story. In Hemingway we know the woman has decided to get the abortion because she is drinking large quantities of alcohol while pregnant. The appearance of the firefly and home at the end of your story suggests the death of Rana as she drifts further from shore, but what has the reader read that suggests this is the natural conclusion for Rana in terms of conflict. What I mean is this, Rana has struggled through disease, family strife, and tough exercise to remain healthy and strong only to succumb to death willingly (perhaps, it isn't clear whether or not she dies).
Here we have narrative questions. If Rana wanted to die why didn't she kill herself at any point in the narrative? Why is this conclusion inevitable? Hamlet must kill Claudius, everything else is a struggle of some sort in order to reach that goal. Through the structure of your story you suggest that Rana wants to live. When she fails that goal the reader expects to know why, this is the essence of tragedy. What is Rana's hamartia? What has she done or failed to do which gives us closure in her death. Oedipus had hubris, for example.

[Anonymous No.16769314]

>>16767285
>This I actually don’t know.
You could have just stopped there

[Anonymous No.16769464]

is it best to write under a female pen name for higher chances of getting published?

[Anonymous No.16769528]

>tfw I think my handwritten draft of my first "novel" isn't going to be novel length
>tfw I know I'm going to go back and add detail when I type it all up
>tfw I feel there's things missing from the interactions between characters because I've been a shut in for too long and don't know how real relationships with real people are
>tfw I'm just bitching
At least it's nice and rainy out today, right, anons?

tl;dr I'm bitching, feel free to ignore

[Anonymous No.16769533]

I plot out my story but it is always too short and feels rushed and illogically connected.

[Anonymous No.16769538]

>>16769464
>is it best to write under a female pen name for higher chances of getting published?
How did it come to this?

[Anonymous No.16769577]

>>16769533

https://pastebin.com/aeuE1fne

[Anonymous No.16769586]

Which is written better?

The car came to a gradual descent as it materialised back into a transparent plastic. Elizabeth struggled to open her eyes, “Where are we?” she slurred. An enormous building absorbed the machine into its shade. Her iris-less eyes widened, and her hands shook across the blackened window. “Get us out of here!” she shouted.

or

The car came to a gradual descent as it materialised back into a transparent plastic. An enormous building absorbed the machine into its shade. Elizabeth struggled to open her eyes, “Where are we?” she slurred. Her iris-less eyes widened, and her hands shook across the blackened window. “Get us out of here!” she shouted.

[Anonymous No.16769608]

>>16767002
>>16769264
2/2

Ran out of space, so I'm going to do my line edits, sentence rewrites, and narrative suggestions here. One of my strategies for revision is to remove superfluous language and phrases in order to show you the engine of story, like stripping a car down to its parts to diagnose a mechanical problem. Once we know what, if anything, is broken or missing we can put it all together and get you back on the road. Bare with me though, this is harder to do on 4chan due to character limits.

"Rana rose when they slept. Without thoughts of return, she took the board and slipped into the dark current, leaving the land where her mother was buried. They had returned to the island, her mother's home, when Rana had been diagnosed. They had sold everything. She had killed her mother."

This is what I have to cover the majority of the story. It moves Rana out of the house, onto the ocean, tells of her mother's death, Rana's guilt, and the cost of her disease. It is only 50 words. It doesn't include the motif of knives or moonlight or whispers or the element of judgmental extended family because they aren't as relevant to the core of the narrative and because adding those elements would mean my restyling your narrative instead of stylistically cutting your narrative. It is also missing the theme of exercise or strength building as a cure for Rana's disease because without this element the reader can see that Rana is bearing a heavy toll and may wish to die. There isn't a trace of the hope for a cure, and instead focuses on Rana's gradual decline and her decision to kill herself tonight (which is the impetus for the story which can be summed up as; a girl goes out at night to commit suicide).

One decision I think you should make in the story is whether or not the mother should play a larger role. Is she the object to Rana's subject or are they both characters in their own right. What pressures motivate her mothers actions? This is important to the reader because the implied action is the defiance of such a strong bond that they will naturally want a reason for the reversal. This can have problems. Your reveal may not satisfy some readers. It will also inflate the story a bit. I think it could be worth it though. If nothing else it is an important source of conflict and tension that should be explored in some way.

If you have any questions about something I've said, want more notes on the story, or just advice on writing feel free to ask. I'll get back to you when I can. Thanks for the contribution to the thread anon, and good luck with your writing.

[Anonymous No.16769629]

>>16769586
Does it count as writing better or worse when you change nothing but the order of the sentences

[Anonymous No.16769655]

>>16767285
Or, feminism.

[Anonymous No.16769768]

>>16769629
someone said my writing was confusing because of the sentence order. Why is everyone here in this thread a sarcastic faggot?

[Anonymous No.16770033]

>>16766498
I like it but keep adding more. Put a little misery in the end to make it feel more real.

[Anonymous No.16770049]

>>16769768
If you must know, it's not entirely clear what the car is doing, is the building anthropomorphic and eating it or what. Rewrite those sentences, fix your dialogue formatting issues and it'll be fine

[Anonymous No.16770098]

>Want to post some of my writing to find out what I should try to improve and work on first
>Don't want to post a unfinished story

[Anonymous No.16770151]

>>16770098
Just pick a couple of paragraphs and post them, anon.

[Anonymous No.16770152]

>>16770098
Just do it. That's why we have a thread.

[Anonymous No.16770228]

>>16770151
>>16770152

If you say so. This is a small snipped. Don't mind the ______. I have not decided on character names yet.


My alarm clock blared out loud and ripped me out of my sleep.
I stood up with still a hint of sleep in my eyes.I struggled quite a bit to turn off my alarm clock. Then I turned towards the mirror and undressed myself completely. I covered my entire body in sunscreen and dressed myself in my school uniform.I took my sunglasses out of the drawer and put them on.
I walked over to the window and opened the blinds.
I could overview a good part of the city from my window. And the giant glass dome over the city looked as imposing as ever.
"Even with these sunglasses and the dome weakening the sunlight, it still feels like my eyes are being burned out."
I threw my backpack over my shoulder and headed out to school. _______ was already waiting for me outside.
"Morning bro. You're not looking too hot. Are you feeling fine?"
“Yeah I’m fine, just a bit sleepy.”
“You did put on your sunscreen, right?”
“Of Course I did. I said I’m sleepy, not suicidal.”
Me and _______ have been good friends for a while now and he insisted on going to school together.
We walked down the street towards our school and past the enormous shopping center in the middle of the town.
“It’s been 5 years already.”
“Huh?”
“You know, the cycle. It’s probably going to change soon.”
“Oh, that. Well. We can’t predict it anyway.”
“T-that mu-u…”
I had problems keeping my thoughts straight.
______ splashed me with some water from a fountain we walked past.
“You spent night and day studying to be accepted. No wonder you're almost falling asleep.”
“I couldn’t risk getting declined.”
“I know. At least let me help you until you catch yourself.”
______ put my arm over his shoulder to stabilize me, which must have looked quite goofy considering he was slightly taller than me.
“Should I not be the one being concerned about getting accepted?”
“You applied for the Executive Course. You will be fine if you passed the physical exam.”
“I am going to take that as a compliment.”

[Anonymous No.16770248]

Anyone have any experience submitting to the Iowa Review? Submittable changed my status from "received" to "in progress" like a week ago, and wondering how long it'll be till I get the inevitable rejection. Is it a good sign it's in-progress for this long, at least? Maybe made it through the first culling by the editors?

[Anonymous No.16770303]

>>16770228
https://youtu.be/7_HVSU7NK5E

[Anonymous No.16770344]

>>16770228
Are you set on first person present tense? I don't think I've ever seen it pulled off successfully. First person can work really well-- Lolita, Heart of Darkness, Gatsby, By Night in Chile are all first person and terrific.

The prose is okay. Its not jumping out at me. It reads a bit like a list of "this happened, then this happened." That's in large part due to your first person present tense. Why do we need to know he put sunscreen on and opened the blinds? Who cares? You can skip superfluous information like this. If it's a short story or novella then every word counts. If it's a full - length work it'll kill momentum, unless that's your intention, and I'm not sure it is.

My top recommendations would be this:
>Switch to past tense if you're set on using first person
>Cut superfluous, unnecessary, or straight-up boring information
>Include a more compelling hook so that we care about what happens
>Show, don't tell-- you include a lot of exposition and straight up state that someone is a good friend. If the dialogue reveals camaraderie and familiarity between them then you won't need to tell the reader that, we'll know already

[Anonymous No.16770377]

>>16770344
Not that guy, but the sunscreen and blinds are important because it sets up that Earth or whatever planet they're on has UV rays that are so strong that they'll give you insta skin cancer if you go outside unprotected

[Anonymous No.16770383]

>>16770344
There's nothing wrong with first person present tense but what you replied to is already past tense.

[Anonymous No.16770451]

>>16770228
I got bored and rewrote it in my style, in present tense because I'm an autist. Don't be afraid of combining sentences, and commas are not going to kill you anon-kun.

[Anonymous No.16770493]

give me a supernatural method one could kill many people without detection
i'm writing my third death note ripoff and running out of ideas

[Anonymous No.16770503]

>>16770377
How would you know that from that excerpt? In any case, that can be woven into the narrative in a much more compelling manner.
>my alarm clock blared out... Ripped me out of my sleep
Cliche
>I stood up with still a hint of sleep... I struggled quite a bit to turn off
Awkwardly phrased, begins the listlike quality of the excerpt.
>Then I turned towards the mirror and undressed myself... I covered my body in sunscreen and dressed myself... I took my sunglasses out and put them on. I walked over to the window and opened the blinds.
Massive turn-off to the reader. The amount of listing is a common mistake for beginner writers. You don't have to spell out every single thing he does, it gets monotonous and the reader gets bored. It's also completely unnecessary, aside for the exposition with the blinds and sunscreen, which could be done a lot more fluidly.
>I could overview a good part of the city
Overview? Wrong word.
>And the giant glass dome over the city looked imposing as ever
This is the first point in which you give any kind of hook to the reader, and it's a bit too late. This is one of the better points though. Cut "and", you don't want to start the sentence with it. Cut "giant", if the dome covers the city that's a given. Include "imposing" if you must, but you want to avoid excessive adjectives. Why not say "I couldn't resist glancing at the dome over the city with dread", or something that reveals the imposing quality through the character's reaction?
>"Even with these sunglasses... Eyes burned out"
Why would he talk to himself about a sensation he is experiencing? It comes across awkward and artificial, and is clear you're including it as clumsy exposition.

I'm not saying you're a terrible writer, but you do have a lot to work on, and I would advise reading more and reading closely.

[Anonymous No.16770523]

Anyone here can live off their writing? Writing fiction and making money seem to contradict each other

[Anonymous No.16770566]

>>16770493
Outbreak of an infectious disease i.e., Covid, Ebola, etc. that happened to find its way to the area where these people inhabit. People would think it's human error instead of supernatural

[Anonymous No.16770603]

>>16770523
Depends on how willing you are to sell out and how much you're willing to write.
If you sell your soul to follow trends, stick to specific genres and you force yourself to consistently put out lots of stuff, you can easily make a living.
If you care about quality, art, or personal growth through writing, and you only write the things that interest you, chances are you won't make that much.
The best case scenario in the traditional scenario would be your book being godly and being picked up by a big five publisher, who then pays you 10k for the book and contracts you 20k for the next two. Royalties are hardly worth counting unless you continue to publish best sellers for years, so that's about a year's salary. You'd likely need a job for plenty of years until you could reap the rewards from royalties.
The best case scenario in self-publishing is finding a niche market and pumping thousands of dollars into advertising and building a platform for yourself while pushing out as much content as humanly possible. 4-10k words a week to keep up with reader's expectations, either in a web novel form or frequent releases to a series. A number of authors can make decent money from self-publishing, as you get plenty of dough per purchase, but the schedule is tough to maintain and building your platform and garnering interest is the hardest part.
It all depends on your writing aspirations and how far you're willing to go to make money from it instead of enjoying it.

[Anonymous No.16770609]

>>16770493
Rapture.

[Anonymous No.16770630]

>>16770493
A man has the power to kill people simply by looking at them and experiencing emotions of hate. However, he is a naturally affable, mild-mannered person and has avoided using the ability since an incident where he was bullied as a child. He is haunted by the deaths of three teenagers who dropped dead while beating him and awakening that latent power, and is wracked with guilt and anxiety over his past actions.

In the present he has forged a successful career as a computer programmer, having chosen the career to avoid having to encounter too many people. Under the pretence of a feigned medical condition he is allowed to work remotely, only having to go into the office once every few weeks. He is helped with the support of his girlfriend, a sweet young woman with agoraphobia who spends her time indoors watching movies with him. He is also helped by his cousin, who has arrived in town penniless after losing all his money on risky options trades, and is sleeping on his sofa.

Unbeknownst to the main character, his cousin has developed a strong attraction to his girlfriend, and conspires to break them up. Using a combination of suggestions, forged text messages, and a pair of her stolen underwear, the cousin plants seeds of doubt in the MCs mind. This culminates in the cousin luring the MC home early on one of the occasions he has to go into work. MC finds his girlfriend is not there and rages, believing her to have lied about her agoraphobia. When she arrives home she is sheepish about where she has been, and in a fit of fury MC experiences hate, accidentally causing her to drop dead. He discovers she was purchasing tickets for a drive-in cinema event that the MC had expressed a desire to go to previously.

Consumed with regret, MC catches sight of himself in a mirror, and- hating himself for what he has done- drops dead as well.

[Anonymous No.16770685]

>>16770566
>>16770609
I probably should have explained more. In death note, someone finds a notebook that can kill anyone whose name is written in it. There are a few rules governing its use and the main character does his best to evade being discovered while using the notebook. In my first ripoff, it was literally just a death note. Then in my second, the main character, upon looking in someone's eyes, was able to manipulate them for the next hour by visualizing actions happening to them.
That was years ago and now I want to try my hand at another because I'm feeling nostagic. I'm looking for a supernatural method someone can invisibly kill others which police would need to try and piece together to find. If not by eye contact or writing their name in a book, then how?
>>16770630
>simply by looking at them
See above. Also, your story gave me a chuckle. I may unironically incorporate some parts of it into the story because right now I'm just in the brainstorming stages.

[Anonymous No.16770910]

>>16770685
A few ideas that came to mind:
-Posting about them online BEFORE their deaths about how they will die.
-Burning an effigy of them (i.e., some voodoo type thing but bigger)
-Some kind of art piece, posted in the MC's city, like graffiti which depicts the people in question.
-Hacking some sort of deep-state system that designates threats to national security and inputting targets into the database.

[Anonymous No.16770976]

>>16770503
Think about it, it has to be protection from sun damage

> sunscreen all over body
> sunglasses
> giant dome
> everything feels burning

[Anonymous No.16771437]

wrote 1680 words today

[Anonymous No.16771627]

>>16771437
I get so tired after 500 words

[Anonymous No.16771704]

>>16771437
>>16771627
>tfw do 3000 words easy assuming I know where the story is going
That's typed. Idk how many I do handwritten.

[Anonymous No.16772168]

>>16767599
same
I have the beginning, middle and end
but I cant put the pieces together that links the story together into a seamless tale

[Anonymous No.16772201]

any good?

Walking in a constant state of brown, one would think the lack of color, eventually would kill the soul. Though it’s not an ideal situation. I remember the times when I could see the colors. Even if I can’t remember actually seeing them. Perhaps as if my mind were playing a trick on me. Recalling things I never experienced, as a way to give me hope. To force me to keep walking, and to never allow the colorless world to touch me.
In this particular moment, walking with fire in the palm of my hand, I once again see nothing but brownish earth and withered trees. I had expected to be played a fool, but not like this. While I was used to quiet and deadened forests this one spoke of recent decay. Tracks made by animals I I had never even seen before were littered on the ground. Dead leaves looked as if they had been bundled into a nest only to slowly drift away on the gentle wind. The wind itself reeked of burnt and decaying flesh. Something I wished to never smell again. With the wind comes a white fog that I have no idea where it came from. Everything around me is dead and colorless. No life was meant to thrive here and the only living thing I can hear, is my own heartbeat. The only reason I am even here myself is because of misguided trust in a stranger.
It was while I was walking along the coast of the Black Sea, when I came across an old man. He was youthful in disposition but his body spoke of long travels and weary bones. I asked him for directions to the next settlement. Instead he gave me directions to a place where trees and animals still lived and everything was green instead of brown. I told him of the walls and how they had the same things. He gave me a scathing look before telling me the two were different. One was natural the other artificial. Never one afraid to learn new things I quickly asked him what that meant. I received a look of pity at that point, my poor education clearly upsetting the man.
“It simply means one was made by man, and one was made by god” the old man answered, slowly, as if speaking to a child. “How do you know which was made by which?” I pressed on at this point wishing for an educational debate more than anything. “The fathers and mothers made the forests which brought the animals to the walls, but the forest I am speaking of, was made by the hand of god himself and needed no tricks to bring the animals!” Retorted the old man as if slamming a book on the conversation. I thought over what he had said before replying “Couldn’t you say both were made by God? Since God made man, and man in return, made the forests at the walls?” The old man began to laugh and looked at me with mirth in his eyes.

[Anonymous No.16772207]

>>16772201
“You’re not as stupid as I thought you were, follow the directions I have given you and perhaps you could learn some more.” With that he walked past me towards the way I had just came from. “Old man there’s no village that way for acres!” I yelled after him, but he simply waved me off as if to say it no longer mattered, he was in god’s hands.
Right now I did not feel in God’s hands at all. I had followed the old codger’s directions to the letter, repeating them over and over again in my head. Still, I found myself here, in this twisted world that was so much like the one I saw every day. Not wanting to take a step further, I stop and repeat the directions once more and retrace my steps that led me here. I kept walking along the coast of the black sea until I reached the settlement. Instead of east towards the village, I continued north along the coast. Once it had gotten dark I drank some spirits and started a small flame in my hand to light the way. I finally reached a dip in the path that lead towards the ash gray beaches of the black sea. Having reached my destination I was then meant to look for a “hole in the ground”. I had heard and seen much stranger than any hole in the ground, so I thought nothing of it when the old man spoke of it. I had walked the beach until almost sunrise and at that point was about to turn back. It was in that moment that the wind from the sea blew out my fire and left me in shaded darkness. A flash of light made me drift my eyes east again towards the Cliffside. There I saw the supposed “hole in the ground". Just like the old man said I would find. The light having disappeared as soon as it appeared reminded me to once again start a flame. This time only sipping a bit of spirit for sake of wanting to keep my head clear. I had entered the cave and followed the twisting path. Each time I came across multiple paths I would see that light for the briefest of seconds. It was then I knew I was being lead. I still do not understand for what purpose, but I am here. I am still here in this forestry cave that is deader than anything out in the open lands.

[Anonymous No.16772233]

Looking for places to improve on this one:


A city of glass. A dying orange skyline. Factory towers belch their afterbirth into the sky. Swaths of vehicles for miles. A super tribe of men and women. A diaspora from nowhere to nowhere. My road finds itself off the freeway, behind a club, the sting of bludgeoning fists hot on my face.

Fire, fire, all around, the heat of maddened forms twisting and lifting and caressing and thrusting as the beat drives round after round.

Her skin flashed white in the strobe, porcelain white, burning bright like a comet streaking across the dark, across my mind, into the primal heat.

With wild eyes I saw you, I felt you, and touched you, and to me I pulled you, glistening girl, moist and soft, I pressed you against my swell, this pulsing, twitching, impatient lord of myself lurking, yearning, conducting the wandering of my hands.

My fingers inch and retract and inch again. I feel your pink on my hand, warm and secluded, a far-a-way Eden awaiting a love, this love, to blossom, a love soaked in sweat and gin.

You pulled away and I gave chase along the edge of knife-sharp beats, amid the fog, the laser lights, yellow, red, green, among the maenads with black eyes, dampened hair, trembling knees, arched backs, swinging hips, lips pressed against the lips strangers.

Folk like us. Come back to me.

And you screamed as I wrapped my arms around you. You looked into my eyes, my gnashing, hungry, black eyes gorging themselves on your body. My hands grabbed your curves, groped your crease, and your cries fell on the ears of sentinels. I was dragged away, fighting and cursing, left alone with the distant hum of the music and the burn of man fist on my flesh. Limping away, a lonesome form wandering these lonesome times, you and the others will be close behind.

[Anonymous No.16772289]

>>16767599
>>16772168
These sentiments make me want to try to host some kind of writing-group/workshop for these threads and the people in them. I like to help people with the creative writing process and I think it would encourage anons to create public practice material. Most people don't want to post personal projects meant for publication or posterity because they don't their work to dox them. It would be good to have a way to circumvent that for these threads so.
I don't know if anyone would be interested in a kind of open, online workshop course for /wg/ but regardless of whether or not it materializes either of you could post ideas (or facsimiles of ideas you don't want to have tampered with) in the thread and have others help you connect the dots. Group writing can be a lot of fun and might give you the push you need write. Alternatively we could have something like a thread question that functions as a threadly prompt so that multiple anons can participate in a per-prepared narrative with room to practice the fundamentals and get valuable feedback.

[Anonymous No.16772316]

>>16763090
For poetry books, I would highly recommend Poetic Meter and Poetic Form by Paul Fussell
https://www.scribd.com/document/332511050/Fussell-Poetic-Meter-pdf

[Anonymous No.16772328]

>>16772289
I'd be interested, but I lurk /lit/ and barely at that, so I need to find my motivation, but if I can shill a bit since /lit/ is slow board and I need to go to bed for work soon can you critique my that start of some little story I wrote years ago?
>>16772201
there's more but I feel it's too big to post all, but I wanted it to be an overarching story with different themes and stories for each chapter, but the only link throughtout is the main character. Think mushi-shi sort of monster of the week story

[Anonymous No.16772343]

This is the opening to a short story I'm writing about a crazy man. Let me know what you think.

Doctor, I am placing myself within your hands. Do whatever you wish.
To be frank, I will tell you about my strange state of mind and you will evaluate whether it would be best for me to be taken care of, for some time, in a mad house or to leave me as prey to my hallucinations.
Here is the story.
I used to live like everyone else, watching life with open and blind eyes like all men, without surprise and without knowledge. I lived like an animal, as we all do, performing all the functions of existence, believing to see, know, and understand everything that surrounded us until, one day, I realized everything as false.
It was some sentence I read long ago that suddenly opened my eyes, "if we had acquired or lost one of our five senses, our intelligence would have been completely modified. In short, all the laws we have established with them about the physical world would be irrevocably modified."
I thought this over again and again for months, and, little by little, this strange clarity turned my mind to the night.
In effect, our senses are the only intermediaries between the exterior world and ourselves. In other words, our interior being, which makes up the "I", is connected, with the aid of nerve endings, to the exterior being we call the world.
Let me explain myself. The eyes let us see dimensions, forms, colors. They also fool us in all three aspects.
They only reveal to us objects that are in proportion with human height, hence we call things larger than us big, and the others small. Whatever is too vast for them escapes them; whatever is too minute for them evades them. As a result, they know and see almost nothing; the entire universe remains hidden to them: the galaxies that reside in the sky or the amoeba in a drop of water would've remained unknown without the aid of exterior tools.
Even if our eyes were to become a million times stronger, if they could see within the air we breathe all the invisible beings, as well as the inhabitants of other planets, there would still be an infinite number of smaller things or far off planets that they would still not perceive.
Thus, our ideas of proportion are false since there is neither a limit to that which is vast or small.
Having reflected upon such things for so long has disconnected me from everyday life. I soon realized that our conception of the world and how we organized it pale in comparison to those of superior beings with more senses than us. That is when I began experimenting upon myself and invoking those who live in other dimensions.

[Anonymous No.16772348]

>>16763090
How to write romcom

[Anonymous No.16772350]

Posted this in the other critique thread. I can try to critique other anons poems but I like metered rhyming poetry the most, and have studied it almost exclusively so keep that in mind.

In a sickly, secluded vale, leaned alone a gnarly Snag,
By Mosses cloaked, and Ivy choked, and grey-bearded Lichen clad.
This frail corpse's zeniths, to their future rest, they Earth-ward sag.
Few bare branches left, of bark bereft, and roots by rot gone bad.

On a darkened cloud-dimmed day, the entire valley shaded,
With a raging swill, ready to spill, and Lightning rearing low,
With no rumble, nay a sign, as with fury against one hated,
There swiftly cracks a stark bolt that smacks, the moldy, gangly hollow.

And on that day torrential downpour, halted fast the fires feast,
Not weeping, the Rain whipped the slain; the scorched husk, broke in sunder,
But still stood the horrid stump, charred black, and crooked; sharp, unceased,
The Stormclouds howled and swirlingly prowled. And growled, disapproving, the Thunder.

[Anonymous No.16772361]

>>16772289
Give a prompt or two or three, and some semi-required plot elements and then task anons with creating an outline with a certain amount of points

[Anonymous No.16772622]

>>16772348
rom + com

[Anonymous No.16772632]

>>16770344
Thanks for the recommendations. I still dont really have theability to see these myself

[Anonymous No.16772649]

My deepest fear is that people will make fun of me like they did RC Waldun

[Anonymous No.16772676]

>>16770503
I thought it would have been obvious that that I am hinting at the precence of super strong sunlight, but maybe it wasn't clear enough. Thanks for the tips anyway.

[Anonymous No.16772694]

>>16772649
Failing and humiliation is not fun, but it's how you grow, this coming from someone who feels like you. Not confident in their writing and afraid to waste time and effort

[Anonymous No.16772766]

>>16772348
just do lesbians that crack jokes about the other not getting a boyfriend

[Anonymous No.16772786]

>>16772649
This is my greatest nightmare. After heavily dedicating a large proportion of your useful lifespan investing in literature, you spend a sizable chuck of that time pouring out those virgin book ideas and prose you've have bubbling up into a novella. Then when you've finally published it and you've felt a sense of accomplishment very few people get to experience, your entire worldview gets shattered. That part of your soul you've released to the world is being torn to shreds by the masses. You get the privilege of re-evaluating every single interaction you've ever had with a teacher, a fellow student, your friends, your parents, who now you think might all agree that you're actually retarded, and went along with the act to make you feel better. Your entire life was a lie, and you didn't do anything but try your best.

I would not consider myself to be suicidal, but that shit would easily push me off the edge. The only consolation this guy has is the 500 views. This video could honestly either make his career, or bring about his ego death. Not many people get to experience that, so I guess that's something.

[Anonymous No.16772791]

>>16772343
proper schizotier 9/10

[Anonymous No.16772876]

>>16772201
>>16772207
>>16772328
Okay anon, I've taken a look at it. It's very useful to know that this is intended to be the cold open of a longer story. Context is important in critique.

The first issue is the lack of characterization. We don't know who this is, what he is, or what he is doing other than searching and wandering the countryside (searching for what in the 'next settlement'?). We know he has some issue with seeing color and that he can hold fire in his palm. You don't need to jump to exposition, but you could divulge some of this information naturally by having the old man ask the protagonists business. It is important that the reader know the character they are reading about in order to develop sympathy, which is what will keep them reading and invested. Another trick is to open the story in media res (during action) which will hook the reader and instantly delve you into conflict (the essence of story).

The biggest issue in the current narrative as that after almost 1000 words there is still no conflict. It doesn't have to be something physical, even the internal desire of the protagonist for a better life would work (see Muppet Treasure Island for a brief musical example). For example, this character might be looking to restore his vision. If his problem is caused by a curse, disease, etc. then he has already gained the reader's sympathy as an underdog. You could even put him up against the 'ticking clock'. It gives the story immediate direction, thus the reader's immediate investment. We want to know if the hero can change his fate.

Without some kind of conflict I don't even feel comfortable giving you rewrites. I sat here for a good 40 minutes tentatively writing and rewriting some kind of start to a fantasy story that opened with the character speaking to the old man. The problem was that any direction I could venture in was wrong because it wasn't yours. I can't help you push along your story if I don't know what it is. For an example of what I would recommend you can see the previous comments I made on another anons work earlier in the thread. It is the critique with 1/2 and 2/2 on it. Feel free to give a bit more information if you want me to try a rewrite or to ask for more clarification or about any specific issue you want addressed. I'll be monitoring the thread for the next few days.
Thank you for the contribution to the thread anon, and good luck with your writing.

[Anonymous No.16773139]

August 13
Dearest Moesha,

I am currently in Budapest, Hungary, at the Szent Rokus hospital, room 314. The doctor said that they found me unconscious on the street in early June and that I’ve been ill with a brain fever ever since. Don’t worry, I’ve recovered, somewhat. The nurses say I need a few more weeks of rest.

Can you come to Hungary and pay the hospital bill? It’s £60.

Your loving,
Jamarcus

[Anonymous No.16773272]

>>16770344
I have to more questions. First does the hook need to be right at the start of a story and second what is the best way to give the readers exposition.

[Anonymous No.16773286]

Struggling with third person limited or omniscient. I've read so much but it's crazy that I never paid attention to the techniques. I have finished my outlining. My whole plan is not to know what the characters are thinking so that when the whole climax of the novel is revealed things make sense at the end and all the political plotting makes sense. With that in mind when describing the action scenes should I still be describing how they feel as in how the magic and fights feel on their bodies and how it hurts etc. Is it a cop out to describe like that but not mentioning how they feel about certain thiings

[Anonymous No.16773540]

> Parents in Toto Autism Writing Club

Do you have some poems, stories, prose or comics you’d like to share or start creating? Looking for some new ideas? Then join our Creative Writing Club!

Saturdays from 2:00-2:30PM EST, anyone under the age of 13 is invited to express themselves. Individuals 14 and older can share their thoughts from 2:45-3:30 pm. This is a judgement free, pro-positive virtual space!

Sign up here:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeVTFroHtOB9YeIFfcd3qWlxiGBf0u1DYPbd4SIy8MBGm5ykA/viewform

[Anonymous No.16773974]

>>16773540
>Parents in Toto
The band?
Isn't there only like 4 members?
That is a really small demographic this group is aiming for.

[Anonymous No.16774157]

>>16769264
>>16769608
thank you very much anon, i appreciate it

[Anonymous No.16774270]

>>16769264
>>16769608
to add, her mother was supposed to be bipolar/schizoid, hence the whispers and obsessive behavior, and killed herself with the knife. rana was supposed to blur that memory with herself on the operating table for her lung thing. i had no plot and only managed to trudge on with a story as i make shit up going along, hence the plot holes and haphazard symbolism/motifs and why the story doesn't seem to know what it wants to be. i find it difficult to come up with plot, so i'm trying to read more short stories by people so i can be less shit in coming up with an actual story.

that aside, do you have any opinion on my prose?

[Anonymous No.16774715]

So far I've done nothing but write, and my plan is to write nonstop until I put the final period on my novel, and then get to editing. Is this a good method, or am I making a mistake? What would be the best way to tackle this?

[Anonymous No.16774734]

>>16774715
>Is this a good method, or am I making a mistake?
Try it and find out.
Some people will say it's the wrong way to do it, some people will say it's fine. You need to find your own method of what works for you.

Personally, when I finish writing something, I like to leave it a month or two before I start editing. I leave enough time that I have forgotten most of what I have written, so that I am looking at my work with 'fresh' eyes.

[Anonymous No.16774758]

>>16763152
Sociology is shit.

[Anonymous No.16775023]

>>16774715
That's the recommended method. If you stop writing and start editing, chances are you'll never finish the first draft. Finish and then edit.
But like the other anon said, there's no universal rule and if you hate rewriting everything at once, then doing it as you go may work better.

[Anonymous No.16775426]

>>16763152
Uni in my country is free as well, and I'm considering doing a literature course (probably not a while degree) after I finish my math degree

[Anonymous No.16776303]

>tfw getting to the end of the handwritten draft and realize you completely forgot to add a sub-plot semi-critical to the ending and the character's growth
I already knew I'd be adding a lot when I typed it up, but fuck me, how did I fuck up that badly?

[Anonymous No.16776357]

>>16773286
halp pliz

[Anonymous No.16776417]

>>16774270
1/2
Okay, I thought the whispers might have been a metaphor for an extended family. This seems plausible because Rana waits until night to leave her house, I assumed this was to avoid a legal guardian if she was a younger girl. It also comes from the paragraph "They said her mother was bewitched...They said it was self-defense...it runs in the blood" which sounds like something a disapproving family coping with a loss like this might say.
I didn't know that Rana was ever on the operating table. When I read "what the doctors couldn't" I assumed that meant the doctors considered her inoperable and told her to go to her family and live out her remaining months/years. Because the reader doesn't get contradictory information concerning Rana's condition or her assumptions about events they will take them at face value.
Part of this boils down to the sensitivity readers expect from a writer writing about disease of any kind, physical or mental. I've seen this in several workshops. If you include something like cancer or DOD or Schizophrenia they will want to point to it as something that thoroughly represents the reality of living with that condition. Generally this is time spent in research. My mother had a friend who's mother is in the psych ward to this day on and off (they can't keep them forever) for Schizophrenia and she doesn't hear 'whispers' but gets 'phone calls' from her son, who is still alive and not in the habit of calling.

On the topic of prose.
There is good variation between the length of sentences in your writing. You move from paragraph to paragraph at a good pace as well. However, you use several cliche descriptors "like old people's (fingers)" "cold (moonlight)" and "cold (knives)" "black sky, expanse, (void ((the ocean))". The problem isn't literal description, like the "black sky" example, but metaphorical or simile usage that is cliche like calling the ocean at night a "void". I can feel that you want to be artistic in these descriptions but you use them at strange times and in strange ways. "Moonlight slashed like a knife and the water was as cold..." This verb phrase is employed as a simile when it should express narrative movement, which, I think, is the reason it feels literal. I don't necessarily suggest a rewrite of this single sentence, but that you should do general narrative revisions so each sentence has its own narrative 'weight'. For example, it isn't important to the reader that Rana's, after noting the moonlight "felt her heavy lungs lightened by the waves rumbling softly in the distance, dissipating into foam under her feet."

I'll do another post about the prose. I'm almost out of space again.

[Anonymous No.16776637]

>>16774270
>>16776417
2/2
Here again we have a sentence like "A breeze made an old cut sting with salt and once again she saw the black expanse." I understand that you want to introduce her surgical scar to the reader but the wording and contextual balance feels off. This way her scar is the object and a breeze is the subject of the sentence. The writing would be stronger with the positions reversed, "Her scar stung in the salt breeze coming off of the ocean." Then however, the emphasis might make the reader question the timeline. If her scar still stings when exposed to salty air, how long ago was she 'attacked'/operated on.
The biggest issue I see in your prose is one of balance. It really does make a big difference. What is being 'said' compared to what is written on the line. Without meaning words feel empty. Think about a political speech or the way students write academic papers without actually saying something. That isn't the case here, but the words don't have enough behind them, for example, "Good intentions make the clean, slow healing cuts." I can see that there is meaning her, but because it isn't stated the sentence feels emptier than it should. Compare it to the phrase, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." Both primarily operate on the meaning of misguided sentiment, but the example of the road to hell is more direct in meaning and consequence than "clean, slow healing cuts"
There is also too much telling and not enough showing, "Her mother used to make her swim farther and stay longer, for strength." You could instead use the flashback to show the interaction with her mother, which would characterize her, thus solving several issues at once. Employing the method of parallel stories to juxtapose the meaning of one with the other is common enough, and I think it could work in this case.
Another example of the indefinite nature of your prose, what you can call 'un-surety' is, "Rana, a voice seemed to say." Did the voice say it or not. As the writer there is no seeming, or as little seeming as possible. You know whether or not a voice did or did not call out. Rana would hear or not hear (internally or externally) a voice call out. A stronger construction would be, "A voice called out, ""Rana"""
Here is another rewrite using stronger construction and/or language, "Rana rose up, reached over her head and tore off the wig, letting the sea breeze feel her scalp and play with what hair was left." Can become, "Rana tore off her wig letting the breeze run through her remaining hairs." Now the wig is 'her' wig, instead of 'the' wig. This construction also compacts the pacing, Rana doesn't need to reach up to tear off her wig, she just tears it off. Instead of having 'what hair was left' she now has somewhat grotesque"'remaining hair(s) (my emphasis)." The breeze is no longer 'feeling' but running through.
Simple changes like this can tighten up the language drastically in revision.

[Anonymous No.16776735]

>tfw handwritten draft of my first novel is done
It's underwritten as Hell, but it's fucking done, lads.

[Anonymous No.16776767]

>>16776303
It's a draft. You didn't fuck anything up.

[Anonymous No.16776814]

>>16773286
>>16776357
Third omniscient isn't used as much anymore. Third limited is much more in vogue currently and is the traditional form of third person writing you have likely read. Check out the books recommended in the OP, they have explanations of these techniques and terms. You seem to be confusing these terms with Third Person Objective, which denotes no internal thoughts or understandings and only remarks on those things which are observable. Third Person Omni is something like, "Jill bit her lip, she was scraping away a loose strand of skin on the inside of her lip that had been bothering her all night. However, Jack thought this was the invitation he had been looking for since he had stopped the car, and leaned forward to kiss her."
Third Person limited is something like, "Jill sure looked funny chewin' her lip like that. Wait a minute, could she be signallin' me for a kiss? I know how hard it's supposed to be to read a girls signals. Jack leaned forward for a kiss and felt the sting of Jill's hand as she slipped out the door and ran, crying, to her house."
Third Objective is something like, "Jack and Jill were sitting quietly in a red 2004 Ford Mustang. Jill was chewing her lip while watching Jack flip through the music on his phone. Jack leaned towards her and she slapped him. She opened the door to the car and ran crying to her house. In a few minutes, as Jill watched through the curtains of her window, the red Mustang rolled slowly away and out of sight."

What confuses me is that you say your plan is to NOT know what the characters are thinking and that the political plotting WILL make sense. If you want to have political maneuvering that makes sense the reader will need to know how and what is being done. The way to do that is through the filter a proficient politician's consciousness. Think House of Cards, Game of Thrones, or Vice (the Dick Cheney movie not the media group) or, for a more literary example To Kill A Mockingbird. The politics of the south, Atticus, and the specific case he takes all make sense. In this case it is because we take the perspective of the 'fish out of water' Scout (his daughter) and have her question him about the things she doesn't understand.

So, is it a cop out to describe sensations? Not if you are in Third Limited and describing how the protag feels when he experiences the pain of being hit. However, if you are jumping from head to head talking about how much pain the whole cast of the story is experiencing and you are supposed to be writing in Third Objective, yes that is bad. It wouldn't be a 'cop out' it would be the breakdown of perspective in your narrative, which is a very bad thing to have happen.

Feel free to give an excerpt or something that relates to what you mean if you want some more direct or clear answers to these questions anon. Good luck with your writing.

[Anonymous No.16777043]

>>16776735
Congratulations! Hope the typing process goes well for you. What's your story about?

[Anonymous No.16777191]

>>16777043
>>16776735
how do you edit your first draft?

[Anonymous No.16777226]

>>16763636
This is the right way. Not so much a short story but a single idea.

[Anonymous No.16777229]

>>16774758
why

[Anonymous No.16777267]

>>16777191
One way to edit your first draft is to have others critique it in a workshop environment. They will do what you would be doing anyway, but there are (ideally) several of them and they will notice different things (more subjective elements) and some of the same things (more objective elements).
For first drafts that are still rough the editing would be spelling, grammar, pacing, consistency and details like that.
If you are interested in more detailed descriptions of revision with examples I recommend reading Writing Fiction: A Guide to Narrative Craft in the OP. The last or second to last chapter has a good example of a professional revising his short story several times in preparation for submitting it to a contest. He went on to win first place, so the process might be helpful for you.

[Anonymous No.16777319]

>>16777267
> have others critique it in a workshop
nope nope nope nope nope

[Anonymous No.16777331]

>>16776767
proverbially fucked up

>>16777043
>story about
Learning you need people and that you can only help those who want help

>>16777191
I can only speak from short stories I've edited so far, but it's basically seeing what works and what doesn't and fixing those parts. Sometimes it's changing perspective and rewriting the whole thing, others it's simply rewording a few paragraphs.

[Anonymous No.16777335]

>>16777319
Why don't you want to share your work with us anon?

[Anonymous No.16777409]

>>16777335
Not him, but sometimes even getting valid criticism can be taxing.

[Anonymous No.16777412]

I would like to see a story where the main characters are personifications of some of the boards here on 4chan - like /lit/ would be a skinny nerd with bad opinions and lots of them, /v/ would be a fat gamer who hates women, /pol/ would be a redneck trump supporter, /b/ would be the villain of the story because he would be a trap who is a psychotic rapist and murder.

Someone do it.

[Anonymous No.16777413]

Tried posting this in crit thread but no replies. Just need your short thoughts on this intro.
Thanks lads

[Anonymous No.16777420]

>>16777412
forgot to add that all of them would be virgins, obviously

[Anonymous No.16777519]

>>16777413
breddy good, anon

[Anonymous No.16777527]

>>16777413
A lot of unnecessary words and commas.

[Anonymous No.16777528]

>>16777412
>bad opinions
That's just like, your opinion, maaan.
>/v/
Honestly, most gamers are skinny fucks too desu
>/pol/
I miss when /pol/ wasn't just an r/the_donald refugee camp

[Anonymous No.16777925]

>write something for which I have a basic outline and not much else
>comes easy, happy with the results
>write something for which I have tons of planned plotlines and character arcs and an intricate universe
>writing is like pulling out my teeth through my asshole, reading it back is awkward and embarrassing
the reason is obvious but I still hate it

[Anonymous No.16777944]

>>16772289
>>16772361
Here is a prompt for any anons who want something to write about so they can post in the thread without publishing their perspective magnum opus in an anonymous thread. I have decided to add a few bonus options as well. They are not 'required' but might help you in your study of writing and give you some ideas or direction.

The prompt:
A big game hunter is wrapping up a tour in Africa. The hunter comes across a single endangered white rhino, possibly the last wild white rhino in the world. The hunter discovers that (a) poacher/s are in the area. The hunter decides to protect the rhino. Write a short story from 500-5000 words (or more if you want) about this event.

Bonus goals:
Write the story in the style of Hemingway. Study his writing style and short stories and translate that into your own work.
Make the white rhino a symbol in the same vein as Moby Dick. It can be anything, but present this without directly telling the reader what the symbol means.
Humanize the poacher/s. Though it is easy to hate, it is harder to sympathize. Consider John Gardner's (who's books on writing are in the OP) critique of Steinbeck's The Grapes of Wrath , "Witness Steinbeck's failure in The Grapes of Wrath. It should have been one of America's great books...[S]teinbeck wrote not a great and firm novel but a disappointing melodrama in which complex good is pitted against unmitigated, unbelievable evil." (You don't have to agree with Gardner, but the critique is relevant to our purpose)
Make this story, which easily fits the archetype of drama, thriller, or action, a comedy, satire, or romance tale (please don't romance the rhino, unless you really want to, this one is for you to practice romcom anon)
Have a segment of the story, a prologue or even an epilogue that is written from a perspective that does not belong to the hunter. In The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber by Hemingway, Ernest briefly takes the perspective of the lion being hunted, try to do something similar with any of the characters you create.
Play with the time period and the framing. This idea was originally a shift in perspective of a sci-fi story about the preservation of the life of a sentient virus by a doctor brought into a quarantine environment. I retooled the narrative when I found that people couldn't show sympathy for a sci-fi virus to something that people easily express sympathy for. Take this prompt and turn it into a similar story from the future or past. A cave man finds the last dinosaur, an alien finds the last human, a true A.I is accidentally created and the scientist responsible attempts to save it from destruction. Be creative.

I hope you all have fun writing about rhinos or other endangered and rare things. After you've finished a first draft feel free to post it for critique so we can all learn from the experience. Good luck with your writing anons.

[Anonymous No.16777957]

>>16777925
That’s why I run the gamut between imagining things in generalities but leaving the rest up to spur of the moment writing

[Anonymous No.16778127]

>>16776735
Congrats! Hope it felt nice. Hope you don't suffer from post completion depression. Like I always do.

>>16777191
I usually open it up and start reading it from the beginning. If it feels like what I intended it to feel like, I usually just tweak lines and fix grammatical shit. If I'm reading a chapter and it felt totally different when I was writing it than it reads, or if I planted a seed for a later development that I never followed up on, I open up a new document and start re-typing it. Once I reach a point where I can fix the tone or the unnecessary plot point, I do so. Sometimes that involves changing everything from the first word, other times it's only about a quarter of the chapter.

One important thing to remember is that you don't NEED to rewrite everything. Sometimes a chapter can be exactly what you need it to be the first time. When I first started out, I'd rewrite everything, even when I didn't think it really needed it, then I'd go back and the original was frequently better anyway.

[Anonymous No.16778364]

>>16776303
>handwritten draft.
I'm tempted to make fun of you, as that's a terrible idea in case accidents happen. Digital is way more resilient. At the same time, whatever works for you.

[Anonymous No.16778399]

what do you think of what I have so far

romance novel for older men unhappy in their marriages and want escapist fantasy

> mc is middle aged man, 50 years old, married for 15 years, hates wife because she doesn't understand him, has 3 children, works as a safety inspector
> new intern is 22 year old waifu
> she fucks up something and it's up to mc to correct the mistake, he's annoyed at the stupid woman
> boss tells mc that he must train her
> "I don't want to, she is complete incompetent, probably only got this job through nepotism, why doesn't she go marry a rich Chad, like big boss' rich 22 year old son" thinks the mc
> as they work more together, he finds out that she is so interested in safety and loves ogsa
> they fall in love and bond over how important safety inspections are
> they go on a date to the train museum
> they can't be together: 1, he's married with children, 2, she can't date her boss, 3, her father wants her to marry big boss' rich young Chad son
> but mc and waifu love each other so much

[Anonymous No.16778466]

>>16778127
Not that guy but this was actually really helpful. I've been putting off editing for every novel I've done but really want to go back and finish them off. How long would you say that process takes (for something between 70-90k words maybe)?

[Anonymous No.16778664]

>>16778466
Writing 1-2k takes me an hour or two, and that's normally the length of one of my scenes/chapters. When editing, I can easily go through a scene in 30 minutes, assuming it doesn't need much work. If it needs rewriting, it depends on the amount of effort needed. For example, if the pacing or tone feel off, I can rewrite a 2k word chapter in 30-40 minutes, as I already have a full chapter to pull from and I already know exactly what I want to happen. But if it has something to do with the plot, adding details or removing them but maintaining pacing, or trying to change a character's knowledge so that it matches up with later events, it takes way longer because I'm constantly referencing other chapters to ensure I'm maintaining details.
tl;dr probably as long as it took you to write it, give or take a few hours

[Anonymous No.16778696]

>>16777519
>>16777527
Thangks, even something as short as that helps a lot.

[Anonymous No.16778698]

>>16778664
>Writing 1-2k takes me an hour or two

[Anonymous No.16778700]

>>16778364
I've had infinitely more digital problems than anything else

[Anonymous No.16778701]

>>16767599
Write the outline down on paper.
Look up random words on dictionary.com
Pick which ones you like and write them down
Think of ways to incorporate those words in your story
Works every time

[Anonymous No.16778722]

>>16771627
Same
>>16771437
Same

[Anonymous No.16778736]

>>16778399
Sounds fine, like everything else it's all down to execution

[Anonymous No.16778740]

>>16778698
We all write differently. From my experience, people who write slower usually don't need to rewrite 90k words. They can also maintain a better schedule, instead of switching between 4k a day word vomit and then month long dry spells. Don't compare.

[Anonymous No.16778750]

>>16778399
>romance novel for older men unhappy in their marriages and want escapist fantasy
is this a genre? because i want books like this

[Anonymous No.16778763]

>>16778399
I mean, I hate it. But I'm not your intended audience. I do have to wonder though, if middle aged men in unhappy marriages actually read escapist romance novels. That's largely a woman's market.

[Anonymous No.16778824]

>>16778698
that's fast

[Anonymous No.16778836]

>>16769538
Yes. I'm pretty sure that nowadays the reader base of anything is composed mainly by women.
>>16769464
More retarded books, more retarded readers. Simple as

[Anonymous No.16778878]

>>16769464
The agent you submit to will know your real name, as will the publisher. It might help sales though depending on genre.

[Anonymous No.16778956]

>>16772168
Same, Always feel like i need to fill in the plot

[Anonymous No.16779051]

>>16778878
>tfw have a feminine name
>agent likes my query, requests full manuscript
>likes manuscript
>get along in emails
>she asks for my skype so we can discuss more details
>she is silent, shocked by the fact that the author of the cute female viewpoint teenage romance is actually a ripped 31 year old man
>says several times that she thought i was a woman and also that they mostly publish women
>i refuse to acknowledge the statements, either changing the subject or creating an awkward silence
>can tell she is trying to imply it probably won't work out but she is unable to say it outright because she can't say it to my face
>nowhere in her bio or on the publishing house's website did it imply it was FEMALES ONLY and their genres were pretty broad
>want to be published so figure i can bruteforce it
>call ends
>before the day is out, get an email from another agent explaining "we're sorry, but we've decided not to move forward with your book"
fuckin sexism m8, not only did she not say it to my face, she didn't even say it in an email, she got some male agent who actually has balls to send one
still mad

[Anonymous No.16779064]

>>16779051
Lol fggt maybe becum a woman be4 sending a manuscript

[Anonymous No.16779212]

>>16779051
Unfortunate, but keep at it, anon. You'll get there someday, I'm sure.

>>16779064
>t. asterisk role-player

[Anonymous No.16779230]

>>16777944
Seems a little too specific of a prompt, but that might be a good thing. Focusing on writing poetry though, and not interested in the prompt either.

[Anonymous No.16779447]

What are the most important things to keep in mind when creating and developing a character?

[Anonymous No.16779454]

>>16777944
already feel myself struggling to get to the major points. how is it so far? Should I keep going? it's not gonna be much longer, but I have an idea in my head

A strike as loud as thunder, recoiled into the blade of my shoulder as the once proud king falls over, his wives scattering, never knowing that his reign was soon to be over. The smell of the gunpoweder stings my nose hairs as I lower my rifle and slowly walk toward my rightful claim.
The lion was panting with a furious will to live, on it's side, one eye starting to the sky, daring not to look at me. I grabbed it by its mane and plunge the knife into it's neck ending it's suffering and my joy. The game was over, the fun had been had. There was no more use for this carcuss with no pride left. The laws though, would not allow me to just leave it, to bake in the sun. To let God and his creatures look upon and devour my prize as nature intended.
"Nice kill, Mista Kass, fine kill" a whispering voice spoke behind me. I turned around and eyed the sun baked man, his black skin standing out from his street clothes. Nowhere near dressed for a hunt, but yet somehow is the best tracker in his village
"Always, Tungi, now hurry up and grab the jeep" I turn back to my kill, as the sounds of his barefeet pounds on the savannah floor.
The lowering sun casts an orange glow over the lion. I stare once again into its dead lifeless eyes. Those eyes always remind me of my mother. Lifeless, yet still somehow beautiful. I then think of my father, the man who taught me how to hunt, how to taste the blood. I hear the jeep pull up behind me and my thoughts evaporates like the sun, the orange glow now a deep dark red. How long was I just standing here. "Tungi, hurry up the sun is setting" Irritated I grab the lions head as Tungi opens the backhatch of the jeep then runs almost tripping over the Lion's tail to grab it's hindlegs.
"yes yes" Breathlessy he gasps out, as he struggles with his lithe body to lift the heavy mass. I chuckle with the ease of it all.
After securing the back and loading into the jeep ourselves, Tungi begins to drive us down the dirt "road" that brought us here. The lights of the car cutting through the darkness, allowing a slight view of the river that runs next to us. I look further up the corner of my eye as the radio plays swahili music, casting my eyes to the moon in the sky. The white of it's color is a blinding sight, Butit draws me in, that is until I see a flash of white from below. I quickly cast my eyes down to the riverside.
"MISTA KASS!!" Tungi screams as he slams on the brakes. My eyes that were searching the river waters, shifts to the front window of the jeep. In time to see a blinding white sight, followed by the deep darknees of the jeeps dashboard. My head instantly feels like a watermelon gushing juices after being cracked open. The copper already has reached my nose and everything breath is like drowning.

[Anonymous No.16779482]

Wrote this in WWOYM but I'll repost here

I'm trying to put together an outline for my book but I feel like I might be getting hung up on how specific I want the themes I'm conveying to be. I do want there to be thematic significance and consistency but does it need to have an overarching thesis to be good, particularly if it's a comedy? Even if it just a comedy I would still want it to be anchored in something substantive otherwise it's just funny random things happening, right? Like Infinite Jest could be called a satire or a comedy but there are still statements being made about media in society, geopolitics, national identity, etc

[Anonymous No.16779489]

>>16779447
Goals and motivations, why should I care enough to read about them, why should you care enough to write their story.
This is an opinion from what I enjoy.
I like seeing characters that rise up above their flaws or in some stories use their flaws to advantages.
Personality is important, but doesn't matter as long as you can make them believable. In regards to anti-heros and the like or a smug sarcastic character.
You can write an asshole character and people can hate them, but their challenges and goals and desires that everyone has, is what endears them to me. To see flawed or even immaculate characters have their world viewed change or even something from their own actions that twists them. I'm rambling now and probably offered nothing, but a chat, I wish you luck anon!

[Anonymous No.16779636]

Any tips on how to lay out a theme and moral argument/dilemma through characters and plot? Probably something along the lines of having the different "sides" of the discussion represented by each main character and pitting their beliefs against each other but I was looking for something more comprehensive that breaks this idea down with specifics.

[Anonymous No.16779638]

>>16779051
What's your name? Dana? Hadley? Blake?

[Anonymous No.16779642]

>>16776417
>>16776637
thanks again, anon. you make some really good points.

[Anonymous No.16779751]

>>16779051
literally sue, I may be a naive faggot, but I feel this is the one time suing seems right.

[Anonymous No.16779797]

>>16778696
Is the story going somewhere or this a little vignette?

[Anonymous No.16779819]

>>16778698
He’s talking about rewrites.

[Anonymous No.16780545]

[Anonymous No.16780550]

I have never posted my writing before, but it's something I've been wanting to do for a while. This was something I wrote on a whim around the random topic of learning languages. It's short, however, I think it's enough to get some feedback on bits that others find better potential for.

“That’s it, I’ve had enough” – he had cried the previous night. However, here he was, brushing along his textbook’s fourth chapter expecting to develop an understanding of a language that sounded as strong as his temper towards studying. Each morning would be the same; his timetable dictated an hour-long German lesson upon his three (and two-thirds) legged chair face first into the day’s vocabulary. Pronouncing vowels and umlauts in a fashion akin to stuttered slurring, he thought back to the coffee that had promised him sufficient energy to pull through. Regardless, spelling ‘kaffee’ with one ‘e’ and the misplacement of an umlaut was the last straw. “That is it, I’ve had enough” thundered the man in an unconscious attempt to break his routine – even if it was just one additional word.

[Anonymous No.16780698]

>>16779454
Hey anon, it looks like it's going good. I'm interested in how you'll move through the plot points. That is one of the purposes motivating the exercise as I see it and something I feel beginning to intermediate writers don't realize when the start planning a story. How you connect the dots and interpret the points is what makes the story yours. I thought giving anons the chance to write the 'same' story, one they aren't attached to, could help everyone put more value on their execution and see what it is that makes their story or interpretation unique.

I'm interested to see whether or not Tungi will play the part of the antagonist. There is something dubious about him and it is an interesting twist on the prompt. The 'evidence' of the poacher could be the reveal of pre-existing characters motivation instead of the introduction of an entirely new character. I'll be happy to see how you develop Mr. Kass as well, a hunter with no interest in his targets outside of the process of the hunt. He has a Most Dangerous Game quality about him because of that. The protagonist is one of the more engaged elements of the prompt so I'm glad that you didn't take the most conventional path, which was somewhat inherent in the wording. The decision to protect the Rhino assumes a potentially sympathetic 'noble hunter' archetype. Here, at the start of your story there is something unlikable about Mr. Kass that I like.

For critique the first person perspective jumps between past and present tense. "recoiled into the...shoulder" "plunge my knife" "game was over" "the smell...stings my nose". This is easy enough to correct in revision, but I hope it brings an awareness of form and purpose that you might not have had previously in your writing. Take the chance to consider why you might naturally be inclined to jump back and forth. What was it that felt active or engaging in one sentence and thoughtful or reflective in another.
I think you could also spend more time in concrete language, "The copper already has reached my nose and everything breath is like drowning" Could be more convincing or immediate without the interpretive action required by the original use of copper and drowning, "My split nose leaked blood into the back of my throat and over my lips. I was drowning in every breath."
The same can be said of the opening sentence, "A strike as loud as thunder, recoiled into the blade of my shoulder as the once proud king falls over, his wives scattering, never knowing that his reign was soon to be over". Think also about characterizing details. Is this the first male lion Kass has killed or does he spend every other summer on safari? How could that inform his language? "I breath out, casting thunder from my shoulder, taking the head of their king. They're just big cats. I watch them take to the tall grass not knowing I can still see them. I could shoot them all, but it's not fun anymore."

[Anonymous No.16780808]

I know how I'm going to end my chapter

There was only one man who would know how to treat Lupita’s mysterious illness. Jabari wrote a note to his former mentor and went downstairs to a Black pageboy.

“Deliver this telegram as fast as you can. I want it sent to Amsterdam – to Professor Van Hassain.”

[Anonymous No.16780865]

>>16763090
CYOA style, Tell me is it cringe or cool? (Not done, just the canon timeline is all.)
https://docs.google.com/document/d/12g1GRKszvGPQH9H9FpZ6LaTJLzjRMXIBajOrqjyBdEM/edit?usp=sharing

[Anonymous No.16780866]

>>16774758
Filtered

[Anonymous No.16781600]

>>16779051
>i refuse to acknowledge the statements, either changing the subject or creating an awkward silence
>want to be published so figure i can bruteforce it
All you had to do was not be a dick. Sounds like they made the right choice

[Anonymous No.16781688]

>>16779797
It's a short story I've been planning for a while.

If you don't mind me venting a bit, my problem is that I have severe motivation issues. What happens is that I always write one or two thousand words, revise it until I pass out onto my bed, then wake up and find myself incredibly dissatisfied with my work. So I end up either scrapping it or halfheartedly working on it until I can't bear to work anymore, then take a month-long break and try to start fresh. I've posted other excerpts of that story concept on /lit/ before, but those were older versions. I'm really trying my hardest to force myself to finish my story, even if I dislike it this time. It's damn hard.

[Anonymous No.16782212]

>>16778750
>>16778763
I don't know if unsatisfied older married men like reading romance books, but if they do, it's an untapped market. Maybe I can convince them to buy my books instead of videos from Only Fans

[Anonymous No.16782219]

How to structure prose?

[Anonymous No.16782237]

>>16782219
One word at a time.

[Anonymous No.16782241]

>>16782212
There honestly is 100% a niche for that going unfulfilled. Just think about all the wish fulfillment that is not being created in America nowadays. How many movies/books are about a girl falling in love with a guy and the guy is the main character? How many of the are then filled with shit to reach men? I would say zero.

[Anonymous No.16782299]

>>16782237
I get complaints of illogically ordered prose

[Anonymous No.16782303]

>>16781600
She was talking in such a way as to heavily imply she couldn't publish me because I was male.
>"Well, unlike most of our candidates, you don't seem to fit the same image."
>"Most of our readers are expecting a woman to have written these types of stories."
>"I think it might be a little off-putting to readers when the book doesn't match the author."
It was clear she was trying to get me to address my gender, but instead I ignored it and would instead talk about my prior shorter published works, which were also female viewpoint. If I had said "Ah, will this be an issue?" she would have said "Yes, I'm sorry, you don't fit our image." It was hanging really heavily in the air but I didn't want to help her say it because I was on cloud nine thinking I was getting published.

>>16779638
Taylor

>>16779751
Nah, as much as I do feel a bit shafted and depressed about everything, I get where they're coming from. I've been checking their site every few days to see if they're going to add "female authors only" or something. I don't have the time or money to try and go through court.

[Anonymous No.16782339]

>>16782241
What about Judd Apatow movies?

https://youtu.be/DJv-rG_jeGY

[Anonymous No.16782348]

>>16782339
One movie every year does not a niche fulfill, if anything just look at all the people reading harem novels online to see that there is a huge lack of it published in real books.

[Anonymous No.16782387]

>>16782348
I've once played a Japanese visual novel video game in which I was faceless rotor trying to have sex with his innocent, rich, 2D student. But even the nippons haven't tapped the marriage men market, I don't think, because it's a different conflict than simply I wish I had 10 waifus instead of 1. The married man still wants to benefit from his marriage, such as social prestige, community respect, family ties, children, someone to cook and clean and shit. I'm thinking the utopia, the ultimate fantasy here is:
> family house with wife and kids
> next door is condo or another house that the mc gets to visit
> everyone is ok with him being the head of two families
> children are totally ok with arrangement

You need a bit of loss or sadness at the end, so maybe I could write about how jelly older women and younger men are of mc and say mean things about him behind his back. Or maybe a bigger sadness?

[Anonymous No.16782433]

>>16782348
>harem novels
Care to link a few? I fear they'll all be nearly unreadable self-published stuff, but I've never even heard of this genre.

[thiskillsthedarkelf No.16782503]

>>16763090
>tfw trying to create characters
>A good last name kept me from writing for almost three months

[thiskillsthedarkelf No.16782510]

>>16766412
Dies alone.

[Anonymous No.16782544]

How would you write this scene:

>John ignores the knock on the front door because he knows his mother is going to answer it.
>His mother comes in with his parcel and demands him to go back to school or go to work
>John's little brother, Derek, comes home unexpectedly after dropping out of Law school, bunkering himself in John's small bedroom.

[Anonymous No.16782659]

From the corner of the divan of Persian saddlebags on which he was lying, smoking, as was his custom, innumerable cigarettes, Lord Henry Wotton could just catch the gleam of the honey-sweet and honey-coloured blossoms of a laburnum, whose tremulous branches seemed hardly able to bear the burden of a beauty so flamelike as theirs; and now and then the fantastic shadows of birds in flight flitted across the long tussore-silk curtains that were stretched in front of the huge window, producing a kind of momentary Japanese effect, and making him think of those pallid jade-faced painters of Tokio who, through the medium of an art that is necessarily immobile, seek to convey the sense of swiftness and motion. The sullen murmur of the bees shouldering their way through the long unmown grass, or circling with monotonous insistence round the dusty gilt horns of the straggling woodbine, seemed to make the stillness more oppressive. The dim roar of London was like the bourdon note of a distant organ.


How do I write like this?

[Anonymous No.16782688]

>>16782659
Keep reading books with that type of prose.

[Anonymous No.16782725]

>>16782303
>It was clear she was trying to get me to address my gender
Yeah, and you took the absolute worst way to deal with it. Answering her directly and honestly, you could've tried to look for common ground and change her opinion of you. Instead, you decided to be a cheeky asshole, reinforcing her image that you're nothing like your book and impossible to sell

[Anonymous No.16782731]

>>16782433
https://www.webnovel.com book/the-sex-beast-system-(the-world-of-systems)_14043132006185005

https://www.webnovel.com book/the-incubus-system_17150947806784305

https://www.royalroad.com fiction/25568/my-dungeon-life-rise-of-the-slave-harem

Here are some I got from googling but honestly you could find some better ones. Are they unreadable? maybe. But people still read it. There is an audience for stuff like this, it just feels like it will never get any traction in real life due to all the barriers in publishing.

[Anonymous No.16782736]

>>16782688
honestly is it feasible for someone who never went to college to get that level of prose. I really can't imagine myself reaching that level and it hurts bros. So goddamned much

[Anonymous No.16782747]

>>16782387
The problem with wish fulfillment is that there is no way to write it without feeling like you're grasping for straws to make him more relatable.
>You need a bit of loss or sadness at the end
honestly just go full retard and forget anything resembling a story. If it doesn't go 100% into the wish fulfillment part you'll probably lose the audience

[Anonymous No.16782769]

>>16782736
Dunno why you'd want to write like that. Run-on sentences, weak imagery, a lot of words that don't really tell anything, it's the very definition of purple prose.

[Anonymous No.16782786]

>>16763090
I begin to open my eyes to the dull noise of the distant echoes of my own existence wrapped in a forgotten night. The water in my refuge vibrates in unison with my heartbeat drowned out by the roar of a distant drum. My body surrounded by thick warm moisture levitates in this interior. I look without seeing, I move without touching, trapped in the safety of without knowing without abandoning being. I am a slave to peace, I am dominated by tranquility, dominated by the love of unconditional essentiality. The infinity of the whole does not overwhelm me, nor the abyss of this nothing scares me. And by realizing it, by giving it a word, by possessing the truth without depending on its presence, I free myself from this reality.
A light is invoked above the center of my head that penetrates the impervious darkness of my enclosure, dragging me towards its source. Its intensity blinds more than the nonexistence of my consciousness, forcing me to cover my sight. The much intimidates me, the little intimidates me. The answers are replaced by unknowns, and my tongue learns by itself to ask questions.
Two stars shine blue, pointing the way. I crawl through an undergrowth of meat, looking for my way out. I smell the autumn leaves at the end of the journey, and a hand grabs mine. ‘’ It's a boy ’’ They sing from above. I cry in a daze, panic and cold and desolate. Everything terrifies me, nothing consoles me, until I feel his embrace; takes me in after being banished.

His eyes were the stars in the sky that I always tried to climb. The orange of her hair cleanses my skin, envelops my body, marking the coming of spring life. I am a spectator of my birth, my preconceived word being my emergence. I understand, but I do not understand, I hear, but I do not listen, I detail, but I do not see. His youthful smile is the only aspect that seems genuine in this contrived dream. My will deaf and numb by an overstimulated sensorium comparable to that of a childish puppy raises my arms and takes out of my mouth an unintelligible and premature sound. She responds by bringing my body closer to hers, brushing her face with mine, reaffirming the security of my newborn being. Happiness is a contrasting rush, a fading flash in its own intensity, and in its present durability, I am subdued. I am contained in emotion, still with my reason seeking to escape. No concept is an anchor that gives weight to my existence, so I look for a rope that leads me to knowledge.

[Anonymous No.16782792]

>>16782786
I hug her face, with the touch materializing love. I feel his lips on my forehead, while the answers are hidden in the name of his affection. Kiss my fingers, one by one, tickling them. Fed up and amused, I cover his mouth without quite succeeding. She escapes and insists on the game that lovingly tortures me like a hell of a rose. There is a deep dissonance between what I am and what I feel, between what I think and what I experience. I over analyze before the confused despair of this harmless harm in this unbearable pleasure. I am two in one, I confirm to myself.

Divided, contempt centers my attention, and love descends into hatred that recognizes the preexisting value of disappointment. My ungratefulness triggers my total liberation, and in such an insulting tragedy I find consolation. In this detestable action, her blue flares in contrast to the flooded darkness of her now immobile eyes, her skin rots to a pale gray that heals to throbbing pus, and her hair is corrupted to a deep black that consumes the light of the sun. day. His jaw slowly falls open, and a bird covered in old blood emerges from his throat penetrating his windpipe and nibbling his tongue. On my pre-infant chest he lays his soaked legs, and begins to approach my face leaving a trail of fluids on my body. Attentively, he savors my own eyes with his gaze, wanting to consume the image they produce, his own shining in a severe burning of hunger. My eyelids are the only thin cloth that covers me, and now blind I am united, and now blind I can decide, and now blind I am autonomous. What before I did not accept or want or endure, now I miss. But in my stubbornness, I cling to myself and my nostalgia becomes my complacency, my self-pity, my fleeting depression, which only inflates the lie of what I am to forget that infinitely better thing that I lost. A numb, nauseating feeling enters and expands in my stomach as its cold beak touches the only thing protecting my pupil. Stretch hard, and the light of the mundane day burns my sleep until I wake up.

[Anonymous No.16782794]

>>16782736
Anon, it's feasible for anyone who tries hard enough; college would net you the same improvement as high school. If you were the type who tried really hard to improve in high school and dedicated yourself to your studies, you'd likely improve in college. If you just did your assignments in high school, you'd just do the assignments in college. You can find course outlines and even whole courses/lectures online for every subject, for free. Gutenberg provides thousands of classic novels for free. The one and only thing preventing you from improving your writing to that level is your motivation. I'm telling you from experience, as someone who read nothing but 18th and 19th century books for several months so I could properly write the viewpoints of a character who necessitated it, it's possible.
But do take into consideration WHY you want to write like that. For the vast majority of people, that style of writing went out of vogue for a reason. Simple prose is easier to understand and it's easier to write. If you enjoy reading those books and want to write like them, then go for it, but if you are idealizing purple prose just because it feels smart or out of your reach, stop doing that.

[Anonymous No.16782991]

>>16782794
Personally, victorian style prose is the best type. I can't stand Hemingway type shit.

[Anonymous No.16783115]

>>16782794
Ya I get that but I dont know. Maybe its because I read such great works that I feel my work will never be good enough. I have novels plotted down to the dialogue, bare descriptions of action, scenery etc but cant ever write a final draft because when I'm reading I realize that my work is so bad in comparison. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH IT HURTS SO MUCH BRO

[Anonymous No.16783122]

>>16782725
Stfu. If you are so good at kissing ass with you skillful ass kissing techniques then why haven't you published anything? The guy did nothing wrong and you are on the same level with those who blame rape victims for their revealing clothings

[Anonymous No.16783157]

For anyone that's written a full-length novel after having difficulties planning it, what did you do differently? I used to make a (bad) living writing erotica & romance for the amazon kindle store, and I could churn out those no problem since they were ~35k words tops and only had a few straightforward plot beats. Now I'm trying to sit down and outline a genre fiction novel with 3 POV characters and several plot threads, and it's pretty daunting.

My issue is taking the character stories I want to tell, and creating plots (as well as a world history) that support all of them. I can sit down and churn out decent writing no problem once I know where I'm going with it, but I'm stuck at the 'cool ideas' phase which I always thought was the easiest part of writing. I tried pantsing a 70k-word novel a few years ago and it sucked, so this time I don't want to start until I've got a finished outline.

[Anonymous No.16783163]

>>16783157
Forgot a pic to draw attention to my post

[Anonymous No.16783440]

>>16772343
Apart from experimenting on himself and taking the initiative to get his head checked, he sounds not too dissimilar to me. I think that's really the kind of thing anyone who tries to challenge the human perspective ends up considering. So either I'm actually a nutter (plausible), or he's not far enough gone.

I think his phrasing feels a good deal loftier than the points he tries to make overall. The following in particular comes off to me as him being rather conceited.
"I used to live like everyone else, watching life with open and blind eyes like all men, without surprise and without knowledge."

Although if you intend to express that the assumption of these thoughts being anything particularly out of the ordinary is a delusion, I suppose it works. Yeah, actually, if you want him to come across as mad you might want to focus on his presentation of those musings around existence rather than their content.

If I were the doctor in question I imagine I would have noted but dismissed everything up until the point of mentioning experimenting on myself, but then again, I don't know anything about clinical psychology.

[Anonymous No.16783996]

>>16783122
>communicating with people is ass-kissing
Why are you in a writing thread? You're too retarded to even breathe, never mind express yourself

[Anonymous No.16784016]

How do I use literary devices to evoke a panicky atmosphere?

[Anonymous No.16784039]

>>16784016
Short sentences.

[Anonymous No.16784047]

>>16784039
what else? Like word choice, letter sounds etc

[Anonymous No.16784114]

>>16782792
>>16782786
Could someone judge the prologue of my story? English is not my first language, and the original text is in Spanish. I did a fast traduction in google traductor kek

[Anonymous No.16784337]

>>16784016
>How do I use literary devices to evoke a panicky atmosphere?
Short sentences, an emphasis on sensory information over internal narrative to reflect the POV character's heightened outward awareness, and repetition of thoughts/words to show that what little critical thinking does take place has been short-circuited. Amp up the usage of each device over time to show degradation of the POV character's mental condition.

>Cannons roared. The earth shook. He stumbled in the mud, falling alongside those charging beside him. They did not rise with him. His rifle, wet with muck, slipped from his hands and was swallowed up by the mutilated earth.
>Cannons roared. The earth shook.
>He stared down into vacant eyes. His hands found the man's rifle, and pried it from the greedy grip of the dead. Blood soaked his hands. Acrid smoke claimed the rest of him, and flames danced at the boundaries of his vision. His feet worked up, over, and through, and the shattered horizon loomed.
>Cannons roared. The earth shook.

[Anonymous No.16784414]

>>16784114
Pay me and I'll professionally translate you writings.

t. Linguist, Native English Speaker, Heritage Spanish Speaker.

[Anonymous No.16784422]

Is the 'Secret Heir/Hidden Power Level' trope overdone?
I'm playing around with a companion character who is basically a god, but it's only revealed much later. I don't want it to be overly eyerolling-ly cliche.

[Anonymous No.16784429]

>>16783115
>I feel my work will never be good enough
Most people do. My goal was originally to write a novel and I thought I'd be satisfied, then I wanted to traditionally publish a full trilogy, then I wanted to get traditionally published, now I want to get a contract for a trilogy. I don't feel as though I'm a good writer or that I've made it, because there isn't really that point. I know someone who has had each of her books on the best seller list and she has the same confidence issue. The problem is in you, not your writing skill. Fix your confidence or find a method to ignore it.

[Anonymous No.16784662]

>>16784429
How did she get published?

[Anonymous No.16784677]

>>16784662
Queries, like most people.

[Anonymous No.16784881]

I HAVE AN AGENT! AN ACTUAL AGENT! FROM A WELL-KNOWN, NON-SCAM AGENCY!!!!!

Lads and ladettes I just wanted to share this news with you all because you've been so terrific. These threads are a great place to share ideas and learn. The agent representing my novel thinks she can get me a ~£25k advance and will approach multiple publishers. I am literally over the moon

I know I still have a long way to go yet, but if anyone has any questions about the process at all I'd be happy to answer them

[Anonymous No.16785035]

>>16784881
What's the book about?

[Anonymous No.16785053]

>>16784881
I'm a complete noob to the publishing process. What do you have to do before you approach an agent (or does an agent approach you?).

[Anonymous No.16785061]

>>16785053
Shit, fucked up the punctuation. You get me point

[Anonymous No.16785093]

>>16784881
>the age of surveillance capitalism
i want to read that. is it good?

[Anonymous No.16785264]

>>16785035
I won't go into too much detail since I think it's actually a pretty original idea. But it's a short novel (~90k words) in three parts, following the life of a young woman. The prologue takes the form of diary entries, the main story follows her through her twenties, and the epilogue tales the form of entries by her psychiatrist. Its a character study of someone who rejects the world and doesn't want to be a part of it, and the main question is a rehash of "would it be better to live in a perfect imaginary world, or a flawed real one?". I let the reader make up their own minds about it.

>>16785053
Well, something like
>Write the first draft (hardest and longest part)
>Edit and redraft
>Submit to trusted beta readers
>Take note of common complaints, polish and re-draft
>Submit to professional editors
>Take note of common complaints, polish and re-draft
>When it gets to the point I'm just tinkering, and editor seems happy, start querying agents

The querying part was probably helped because I've had a few short stories published in decent journals, but honestly I believe I would've had interest even if I was unpublished. I did pay for the editorial services, though, but I'd say it was totally worth it. Agent is really confident it'll do well, says it fits into a market where in recent years there's been Eleanor Oliphant, The Girl on the Train and a couple others ( I think my novel is better, but of course I would).

[Anonymous No.16785282]

>>16785264
Do you think being published in journals is necessary before querying agents?

[Anonymous No.16785301]

>>16785264
>trusted beta readers
Where do you find those? Most common advice I've read is not to pay for editors before submitting to agents, why do you disagree?

[Anonymous No.16785310]

>>16782786
Eyes don’t hear.

[Anonymous No.16785317]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWzXq3sbAbk
>he didn't even fuckin reply to me

[Anonymous No.16785340]

>>16785282
Some people will say yes, others no. I was published in The Iowa Review and a couple of pretty good UK journals. 3 stories published, out of honestly hundreds of submissions over the years - but it's the acceptances that stick, and it's easier once you get that first story out there.

In terms of the novel, there will be a lot of people who tell you it's impossible to be published unless you're X minority or whatever. I think that's far more likely to be true when it comes to journals rather than publishers. Many journals explicitly state they welcome submissions from women, people of colour, or people of "under-represented sexuality" etc. But the better journals don't state any such thing, and many of them are read blind.

I am a straight white male in his late twenties. It's just proof to me that if your writing is good enough, you won't be turned away at the door. Bear in mind that good writing means happy readers, which means word of mouth marketing, increased sales... If you write a good book then it's in the publisher's best interest to take it on.

I would say that I think an agent is really important if you're aiming for the traditional publishing houses, though.

[Anonymous No.16785349]

>>16785093
Sorry friend, that's not actually my bookshelf, just an image I saved from /lit/.

[Anonymous No.16785381]

>>16785301
It took a long time to find decent beta readers, I don't like using any that know me personally as I feel like a bias would be unavoidable and I want objective critique. I trawled different forums online, found a couple on websites like fiverr, and eventually got 4 or 5 who I worked with on past projects and trust.

>Not to pay for editors before submitting to agents
When you submit to an agent, you send the first X pages of your manuscript. If they like it, they ask for more. Therefore everything needs to be meticulously crafted so as to catch their attention. Why wouldn't you submit a manuscript in the best state possible? You, as a writer, only need to sell to the agent; it's the agent's job to sell to the publishers, and drive the price up.

[Anonymous No.16785383]

>>16785340
I’m applying to some MFA programs this next month, you think you could take a peek at my manuscript for some general feedback?

[Anonymous No.16785391]

>>16785349
ok. well, congratz on the publisher.

[Anonymous No.16785400]

>>16785340
With all respect, do you feel you had to write about a female character in order to find an agent?

[Anonymous No.16785411]

>>16785381
How did you choose the beta readers though?

Sure, I know the process. But from what I hear, it's best to send something that is only edited by you. As it'll be edited again and then if you submit something that wasn't professionally edited they'll be surprised when it isn't as good. So I hear.

[Anonymous No.16785427]

>>16782747
So go full happily ever after. He keeps wife, mistress, kids, social standing, everyone claps at at the end

[Anonymous No.16785507]

>>16785310
What? No, it is a translation imprecision. ''I begin to open my eyes because of'' would be better. Still, you dense faggot, nothing more to say?

[Anonymous No.16785513]

>>16785383
Yeah dude, no worries. I have a fake email, [e-mail], if you send it there I'll get back to you.

>>16785400
I don't know. I did wonder this. But from the moment I had the idea from my story I felt it flowed more naturally with a female MC than a male. The MC behaves horribly and selfishly at some points in the novel - think cautionary tales like Madame Bovary - while arguably the most moral, decent character is a male. So it hardly paints her as a saint. The novel contains several male and female characters.

>>16785411
When I started seriously submitting short stories a few years ago I utilised the services of a number of beta readers. You can tell from their critique if they really know what they're talking about. Over time I submitted more work to them and weeded out the superfluous ones.

In terms of editing, I'm not sure I completely understand. The biggest challenge is securing an agent, so it was always my intention to get my manuscript to the very best point I could before submitting to them. I can't think how many brilliant stories have been chucked by an agent because the prose was sub-par or needed editing. Many agents stipulate that if they reject your query, you can't submit to them until a specified amount of time has passed. So why not get it in the best shape you can first? Many editorial services also help you write query letters-- I know mine did.

[Anonymous No.16785573]

>>16784881
Post some of your writing

[Anonymous No.16785595]

>>16785310
>>16785507
It's a biblical reference, you retards: "I made a covenant with my eyes, that I would not so much as think upon a virgin."--Job 31:1.

[Anonymous No.16785596]

>>16780698
Based anon! Thank you, I feel your critique is amazing, and I feel worried to disappoint as I will be honest and spoil I was not intending tungi to be an antagonist, but now I can see how I could make him one or at least add more of his character because he simply was just the local tracker who helps Kass.

I feel the back and forth with past and present tense and how you rewrote my words, but better and more clearer. Is down to my public education.
I will boast what little writing achievements I've done, but in middle school i won 2nd place in a writing contest, but my sister edited and helped fixed my sentences like how you did.

[Anonymous No.16785612]

>>16779454
here's more that I wrote yesterday, but couldn't fit in post. I will continue because i want anon to see the ending.

"The HELL are you doing boy!" I yell grabbing the idiot by the scruff of his shirt, but his head rolls to the side. Instantly I grab his head holding back up and leaning it against the driver side window.
"Fucking passed out" I mumble, checking his pulse to be sure. I look again to the front window only to see the lights of the jeep turned inward. Creating a spotlight. A spotlight on the road in front me. Still all I could see was white with the night creeping in around it.
I check my cut with my hands, not worrying for the grime in my nails or the possible infections. The cut is small but deep, just above my right eyebrow. I hold an old bandana to it, as I exit the jeep passenger side. I leave the door open as I stand behind it like a shield. I reach back into the car and grab a flashlight. I creep around the door as I point the light on what we just hit.
Another flash of white, bright this time as my eyes and flashlight land right on it. I step closer and as I do i hear the Lion again. Panting breaths, but not as gutteral. More calm and as if dazed. I step closer as I move my light back and forth over it. The realization of what it was, what I always knew it was, but didn't think possible in my lifetime.
Before me lay a white rhino. The shock making it impossible to close my mouth shut. I just stared at it, flashlight pointed, and just waiting.

[Anonymous No.16785623]

>>16785513
How many shit beta readers did you have to go through? Were the better ones more expensive?

Re the editing, I don't have an opinion myself but the idea is that an agent wants to see what you have made and know what you can do for yourself. If things go well and you try and get something else published (that you haven't had professionally edited) there will be a dip in quality and your publisher won't be happy. That you shouldn't need to get something professionally edited because it will be edited again by the actual publisher. Etc.

[Anonymous No.16785629]

>>16785595
Eyes still do not hear.

[Anonymous No.16785653]

>>16784677
>Queries
I googled and feel dumber than ever
Is this a special thing in writing circles?

[Anonymous No.16785664]

>>16781688
Don’t look back for now. Time will be kinder. If you’re pantsing to some degree, you haven’t found all the links yet, anyway, so move forward.

[Anonymous No.16785681]

>>16785623
Oh, I see what you're saying, I think. But I believe you're mistaken-- I don't think you'll find a traditionally published novel that hasn't been professionally edited. Editors don't write the novel for you, they give you an extremely in-depth critique on what they think is working and what isn't, consistency of the prose, pacing of the narrative, etc. You, the writer, then implement their suggestions. It's far more in-depth than a simple beta read, which will give a broad overview and pick up on glaring issues, and instead seeks to really dig into the minute details of the novel. Editors will also help you refine the first few pages, that you submit in your query. Tl;Dr I think you're mistaken thinking there is a "dip in quality", since it's only the writer doing the writing in the first place.

As for beta readers, there are many places to find them online. I hear there are a few decent ones on fiverr, which charge according to the length of your work, give critiques of various length and depth, and many of whom display their credentials. That'd be a good start.

[Anonymous No.16785691]

>>16785629
Nigger, where the fuck does it imply that an eye is hearing? The ''I begin to open my eyes to the dull noise'' isn't about hearing, but about reaction. I know that niggers can't into abstract thinking, but still.

[Anonymous No.16785699]

>>16785653
If you ever want to feel better about your publishing chances, just go find recently released novels in your nearest bookstore and flip through them at random. Many are atrocious. The issue is most people fall at the first hurdle and fail to even produce a coherent first draft of an appropriate word length

[Anonymous No.16785705]

>>16770451
I liked simple life stories about friends and stuff, so I was interested and would read on. But I think you can do better in terms of prose. Like those little sentences right after lines of dialogue feel strange. Like they either shouldn't be there, and go Hemingway mode, or expand them into more informative paragraphs interspersed between the dialogue. Just my opinion, and know that I have no talent, ambition, intelligence, or authority. Just saying how I felt when reading it.

[Anonymous No.16785720]

>>16785513
Thanks so much! You’ll be getting an email from me soon, a “mail.com” address

[Anonymous No.16785736]

>>16785573
Sure, this is a small excerpt from a short story I'm submitting for publication shortly. Still needs a bit of tweaking here and there but I'd say most of the prose in my novel is around this level (which is to say you it doesn't need to be particularly special at all). My biggest problem, and the reason my first few stories were rejected everywhere, was dialling down purple prose and shortening my sentences where need be.

[Anonymous No.16785738]

>>16785681
I don't think you understand what I'm saying. The publisher will edit for you after accepting. Which is why, as you say, all novels are professionally edited. I'm absolutely not suggesting that novels shouldn't be edited. The point is that if you get someone to edit before you even send it to the agent then it really isn't a pure assessment of what you can do alone. Like I say, I don't have an opinion, but the most common advice I've seen online is not to do it.

[Anonymous No.16785742]

>>16776735
excellent, I will be sure to pick up L'Academie as soon as it's released

[Anonymous No.16785764]

>>16785738
Ah well, each to their own. All the short stories I've published, as well as the novel, were all professionally edited before, and I've never suffered any negative consequences. Like I say, the editors don't rewrite anything themselves, just tell you where to re-write and point out plot holes, etc.

[Anonymous No.16785805]

>>16785736
Aw fair enough m8, it's a bit posh for me but I get the appeal. I'm more of a scifi fan. Well done on getting an agent

[Anonymous No.16785847]

>>16785736
Hmm this isn't that special (please don't take that the wrong way, I think it's perfectly fine). Maybe I could do it to? My heart swells at the thought of any of us making it, so congratulations.

[Anonymous No.16785872]

>>16785847
Sure, like I said, it's not anything incredibly awe-inspiring. Although I deliberately refrained from posting anything I'm too proud of, since you could Google many of the sentences and they'd link specifically to my stories/who I am. The point is that you want a good baseline, a decent standard of quality you don't dip below, and then include beautiful poetic flowery bits sparingly. That makes them pop even more and avoids alienating the reader.

[Anonymous No.16785884]

>>16785872
Have you written any comedy ?

[Anonymous No.16785885]

>>16783440
Aha yes. I'm trying to keep his madness ambiguous while slowly revealing it. Yet, as you pointed out the reasonableness of these musings, I also wish to present his madness by the actions he performs as a consequence of these ideas. Please let me know if this would be good.

Have I truly gone mad?
I have told myself that I am enveloped by unknown things. I see myself as a man without ears wondering about the sounds hidden from his existence. Everything terrifies me. The air, the night sends me into fits of fright. From the moment that all becomes impenetrable, what is left? Nothingness right? What is there in nothingness?
This confusing terror that has haunted man since the birth of his race transforms itself into the supernatural, which is in itself legitimate. Anything that remains veiled to us is supernatural, isn't it? It seems to me that I am on the verge of unraveling the secrets of the universe.
As I have stated before, I experimented upon myself. I tried and still do try to provoke my senses, to make them excited, to make them perceive that which is invisible. I told myself everything is alive. The groans that pass through the night air are alive just like an animal that is born, moves about for a while, and then dies. How many others tremble before all these things that remain outside of our sensory organs? We lack the eyes to see, or, much rather, the unknown sense that could discover them.
I have spent entire nights sitting before my table, with my head in my hands, dreaming about this. Often enough I believed a ghostly hand would run its soft fingers through my hair. Logically, it never touched me since it lacks physical properties but I felt its unknowable essence or presence.
At another time, I heard a noise from outside my home which I tried my best to find. Suddenly it stopped and so did my anxiety but then the next day it came about again. I saw the invisible being that visited me. I could've died from the horror. I turned on all the lights, even the candles, and blocked off the doors and windows with furniture.
Before my bathroom mirror I looked at myself. My eyes became strange. My pupils almost engulfed the irises.
For hours, for days, for weeks I lived like this. Shut up in my house living off the provisions I had bought in preparation of the attacks but the sound never came back. Perhaps the invisible being knew that I did in fact hear it, see it. Perhaps it was playing a game like a young woman who pretends not have seen a handsome man longing for her with his eyes. It wanted me to become impatient, wretched, longing for its return.
I went one last time to the mirror and I began to see the strangest of things. Monsters, cadavers, ferocious beasts danced around within what were once my eyes like fish in a dirty pond.
Please help me doctor. What should I do?

[Anonymous No.16785901]

>>16785884
Not since I was at school. Why, did you have an idea of who I was? I'm getting paranoid having posted the things I already have, all I need is some guy to find my agent and out me as being a 4channer. Nightmare.

[Anonymous No.16785906]

>>16780866
yea sociology majors filter themselves

[Anonymous No.16785923]

>>16785901
Oh not at all, I was just thinking to inquire about writing comedy if you had any experience doing so. Not that I want to write pure comedy, but I like books that are funny, like Bukowski

[Anonymous No.16785931]

>>16785847
The point is it's competent. It's readable. Look at some of the other extracts people have posted in the thread and you'll immediately pick up on the difference in quality. People either tell without showing, or flood their work with exposition, include unnatural, awkward sentences, or try to stuff their work with purple prose in an effort to show how good they are. Stories just need a steady, competent thrum first and foremost.

[Anonymous No.16785943]

>>16785931
Oh absolutely, that's why I made sure to say I didn't mean it in a negative way. I prefer simple prose actually and that's how I write, so it's good to know that's what people are looking for. I loathe the purple prose that so many on /lit/ flock to.

[Anonymous No.16785947]

>>16785923
Although I don't have any experience, I'd say that if you're a big fan of comedies like that, and at least have a sense of humour yourself, you should find it easier. You aren't restrained by the rules of realism-- bizarre coincidences, larger than life characters and outlandish situations are to be expected in comedy, so it would probably be more fun to work with.

[Anonymous No.16785973]

>>16769464
wouldn't there be publishing houses which don't give a fuck?

[Anonymous No.16785978]

>>16785947
I guess my greatest insecurity in writing comedy is twofold. One, comedy is extremely subjective. Two, it's hard to trust that your reader will identify tone.

I've been reading Celine and I marvel at how he is seamlessly able to oscillate from side-splitting comedy to gut-wrenching dread within the span of a single page. I have no faith in my ability to so do.

[Anonymous No.16785996]

>>16785978
Write something that you find funny. I guarantee there will be some people who find the same things funny. If you keep thinking about making the imaginary masses laugh, you'll never get anything done.

[Anonymous No.16786006]

>>16785738
Why should an agent give a shit as long as you own whatever you wrote? It's a business, not some magical gobbleygoop

[Anonymous No.16786014]

>>16785996
I'm going to embarrass myself, but may I share with you a snippet of writing that I put together today? I've never showed anyone anything I've made before (mostly made music in the past) but I just hate everything that I make the day after I make it so I cannot judge anything by myself.

[Anonymous No.16786024]

>>16786014
Sure, post it

[Anonymous No.16786077]

>>16786024
Sorry about the aimless ending, I was more trying to plot a trajectory for myself. It's a story about a friend of mine who pickled his brain by doing LSD every day and went from BFF to complete stranger. I suppose this takes place halfway through the transformation.

[Anonymous No.16786122]

>>16785653
No anon, this is how you get published. You send a query letter - which is basically selling your story's summary - to an agent who, if they like the idea, asks for the manuscript. If they like the book, they agree to publish it.

[Anonymous No.16786154]

>>16785264
I have gotten zero requests for pages and I've queried like 30 agents. Did you pay to have someone help you with a query too? I'm confident in my manuscript but my query is probably trash, I don't know.

[Anonymous No.16786155]

>>16786122
oh, so write story, write summary, Patent or verify it's yours, so no theft? then email publishers or specific agents?

[Anonymous No.16786158]

>>16786122
>which is basically selling your story's summary
I've always had to send a short cover letter, and the first 3 chapters.

[Anonymous No.16786182]

>>16786006
Because maybe you can't write for shit but got it edited well. Maybe that'll screw you if you have a deadline to meet. There's lots of reasons and discussion about it on the internet, there's no need for the attitude anon.

[Anonymous No.16786190]

>>16786155
Write story. Rewrite story. Rewrite story. Edit story. Follow query format to write query letter. Use QueryTracker or another site to find agents who are verified. Follow their instructions for querying them.

[Anonymous No.16786206]

>>16786158
I think it varies by country. Most of what you read about queries is US based but it can be a slightly different process outside of the US.

[Anonymous No.16786210]

>>16786190
thank you for spoonfeeds

[Anonymous No.16786225]

>>16786077
Anon I'm sorry I have to leave the thread, but send it to the email I gave the other anon above and I'll get back to you on it, I promise.

>>16786154
Yes I had help crafting the query

>>16786182
Once again, editing has no bearing on the writing, you still have to write. The editor gives advice on areas to work on. I think you're getting editing confused with ghostwriting.

Leaving the thread now but thanks guys for sharing my excitement with me. We're truly all gonna make it. If there are any other questions, I'll see if the thread is still alive when I'm next on.

[Anonymous No.16786237]

>>16786225
I'm not confused in the slightest. I'm familiar with writing and editing. Like I've said, it's common advice. You could look it up if you'd like.

[Anonymous No.16786242]

>I receive a huge number of submissions. If you submit directly to me as above and you do not receive a response 8 weeks from the date of your submission, please assume your work is not for me.
>Please let me know if another agency expresses interest in your work and I will give your submission consideration as soon as possible. Thanks.

So why wouldn't I just tell this lit agent that someone else is interested to get them to read my shit?

[Anonymous No.16786245]

>>16786225
>Anon I'm sorry I have to leave the thread, but send it to the email I gave the other anon above and I'll get back to you on it, I promise.
I shall. Thank you so much for your answers thus far and again, congratulations.

[Anonymous No.16786260]

>>16786182
cant polish a turd

[Anonymous No.16786346]

>>16786242
Big brain thinking, that might actually work

[Anonymous No.16786944]

>>16785664
I'm a programmer in a PhD program, and programming is something I'm actually very naturally gifted at. On the other hand I've been writing and wanting to tell stories since before I knew I wanted to be a programmer, but I'm just not that good. I know I'm not awful. But I'm not good enough to make it in such a competitive, oversaturated field without a lot of work, and that demoralizes me.
But I keep writing anyway, so there's still a tiny bit of hope for me. I hope. Never going to get an english degree though.

[Anonymous No.16787561]

>>16778127

>post completion depression

That anything like mid completion depression?

[Anonymous No.16787592]

>>16787561
No, that's probably just depression broski.

[Anonymous No.16787608]

>>16786944
Why not write non fiction books about programming?

[Anonymous No.16787660]

>>16786944
Anon, don't think about "making it" or you will never be happy. I've been writing stories since I was in middle school with no intention of "making it". Having friends read them was cool but self-publishing them and being able to put them on my shelf was an amazing feeling. Lending them to people, having near strangers who actively message me asking when the next book will be done, loving the process of telling the story in the first place, those feelings are the most important thing. The only way to make a sustainable living in this business is by killing yourself churning out genre drivel, so unless that's what you want to do, drop the idealization of becoming a writer or becoming a successful one, accept you already are one and write for yourself.