Greece or Rome

[Anonymous No.16717892]

Who was better and which had the better civilisation?

[Anonymous No.16717899]

>>16717892
Greeks were the originals
Romans did the much better remake

[Anonymous No.16717900]

>>16717892
Rome

>systematically used arches in their buildings
>underfloor heating
>better poetry
>less misogynistic

[Anonymous No.16717906]

epic literature

[Anonymous No.16717909]

>>16717892
romans are ingeeners devoid of goals
greeks are arm chair mental masturbator larping as wise men ''muh i know i know nuthing''

[Anonymous No.16717914]

Greece had better culture, Rome had a better civilization.

[Anonymous No.16717917]

>>16717900
>less misogynistic
>better

[Anonymous No.16717921]

>>16717900
>better poetry

[Anonymous No.16717924]

>>16717892
that picture basically sums it up. the romans were ultra industrious philosophy hating CHADS.

[Anonymous No.16717934]

>>16717892
greeks <- the big muscled shiba inu meme
romans <- the coomer meme

[Anonymous No.16717940]

>>16717909
>romans are ingeeners devoid of goals
wut? they engineered plenty in the singular goal of world domination and the glory of Rome

>>16717906
how do you know it isn't a question about literature? who was better may mean who was better at writing great lit.

>>16717914
but romans had greek culture too ;)
have we found a winner?

[Anonymous No.16717948]

>>16717934
why tho?

[Anonymous No.16717964]

greeks suck. highbrow philosophy that was never implemented. slavery without a path to citizenship for slaves. bickering shitty city states, with minor if any cultural difference between them. All had oligarch rule. Herodotus and Thucydides both are more interested in jerking off to their own narrative than saying anything worthwhile. The notion of hellenism being exceptional is cancerous material for nazis.

[Anonymous No.16717983]

>>16717964
>slavery without a path to citizenship for slaves
why is this a bad thing. Plenty of evidence to suggest that a bloat of slaves destabilised Rome towards the end. Perhaps it is best to just let your slaves perish rather than own property and effect your elections or politics.

Look at the US now ;)

[Anonymous No.16718030]

>>16717892
Intellectually, I prefer Greece over Rome, but I'd much rather live as an ordinary fella in the latter. Also, I'd get to meet the Apostles.

[Anonymous No.16718067]

>>16717892
Greeks are the intelligent but unfulfilled older sibling. Romans are the intelligent and extremely successful younger sibling. Greeks thought better, Romans did everything else better.

[Anonymous No.16718068]

>>16718030
probably correct. the civic life of Rome seems much more pleasant and stable.

[Anonymous No.16718073]

>>16718067
>intelligent but unfulfilled older sibling
this hit home. why is this so often the case?

[Anonymous No.16718076]

Greeks have higher highs and lower lows. Romans better on average.

[Anonymous No.16718096]

>>16717934
based meme-riddled brain spastic ADHD autism emasculated zoomer untersmench

[Anonymous No.16718102]

>>16718073
Expectations from being the older sibling ultimately crush one's will to succeed.
t. that older sibling

[Anonymous No.16718138]

>>16717892
a man should be as much a greek as he is a roman

[Anonymous No.16718147]

>>16718102
I too am the older sibling, hence why I asked.
There might also be an element of parents being hysterical around their first kid, not knowing what to do.
My parents were hard on my about school work, but they were just as hard on my brothers.
I don't care a jot about "success" in sense most people mean it but my brother is much more invested in his career.

[Anonymous No.16718150]

>>16717892
Rome was pretty much a continuation of Greek culture.
They were originally less culturally developed but had stronger armies. They conquered Greece, but then the Greeks Hellenized them.

[Anonymous No.16718152]

>>16717900
>better poetry

[Anonymous No.16718153]

>>16718138
based actually

[Anonymous No.16718157]

I am Greek myself, but when in Rome, I do as the Romans.

[Anonymous No.16718158]

>>16717900
>better poetry
>less misogynistic
You have to continue with the greeks

[Anonymous No.16718166]

>>16718150
True, but I wonder what is the paragon for "history's most kino".
Are you the best if you synthesized others into your mix to make something better, or if you were the key ingredient for the mix to work?

[Anonymous No.16718167]

>>16717964
Neck yourself commie

[Anonymous No.16718245]

Greeks had the superior intellectual/artistic culture but the Earth has not seen a civilization better than Rome in its prime

[Anonymous No.16718305]

>>16717900
>Greeks more misogynistic
Yes, and?

[Anonymous No.16718309]

>>16718245
This. Rome is perhaps the only one that could have gone the whole way and taken their glory to the stars.

[Anonymous No.16718311]

>>16717892
Rome, only because it helped usher in Christianity.

[Anonymous No.16718327]

>>16717892
>mfw "Started with the Greeks" AND "Resumed with the Romans

[Anonymous No.16718474]

>>16718147
I burned out hard, and I only just left college. It's hell out here.

[Anonymous No.16718536]

>>16718474
I couldn't even muster the will to go to university. Or even get the final grades suitable for them. It just doesn't hold any value or prestige for me.

[Anonymous No.16718572]

>>16718536
It does to Betty over in HR and that’s what matters.

[Anonymous No.16718586]

>>16718305
Misogyny is bad anon!

[Anonymous No.16718592]

The lit choice is Greece. All other answers are tourist answers.

[Anonymous No.16718649]

>>16717921
>>16718152
>>16718158
>I love Homer! and the choruses of Euripides!!

Rome has: Lucretius, Virgil, Ovid, Horace, Catullus, and loads more. Better prose writers too. The Greeks have better philosophy, I'll give you that, but look at what that did to them.

[Anonymous No.16718676]

>>16717899
>much better remake
No such thing.

[Anonymous No.16718690]

>>16718536
I was terrified to go to uni because I had good grades and few extracurriculars and worried incessantly that I would not make it into a school of my choice.
>>16718572
Betty in HR can eat my shit.

[Anonymous No.16718693]

>>16718592
Plebs only say start with the Greeks. Patricians say "Start with the Greeks" but make it a more nuanced answer.

[Anonymous No.16718716]

>>16718676
why do you say this?

>>16718572
Betty's big milkers are all that concern me, not her opinions.

>>16718690
>I was terrified to go to uni because I had good grades and few extracurriculars and worried incessantly that I would not make it into a school of my choice.
I just stopped studying in the last few months and barely tried in my last exams. The only thing I wished I had done is reclaim the last 6 weeks of high school and gone and banged that hot girl that was into me around her house when her parents were out.

[Anonymous No.16718722]

>>16718245
Rome was in a terrible state even during its height. The average age of death for an adult worker was before 30. As in if you survived to adulthood, you wouldn't live to see your 40th birthday most likely.
It was overbloated for what society could support and ground down its population while going.

[Anonymous No.16718770]

>>16718722
>The average age of death for an adult worker was before 30
I am convinced this take is untrue. The idea that people just perished all the time is kind of absurd. When most people still lived off the land, most people spent their time outside, away form others so they did not just have plagues running through their population, and getting exercise and eating clean. I don't think most people died by 30 anon.

[Anonymous No.16718812]

>>16718770
This article:
https://www.thelocal.it/20160527/groundbreaking-study-reveals-brutal-realities-of-life-in-ancient-rome
Is a breakdown of the larger studies here:
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/298705984_The_Study_of_Ancient_Bone_Remains
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/318299373_Bones_Orthopaedic_Pathologies_in_Roman_Imperial_Age_Andrea_Piccioli_Valentina_Gazzaniga_Paola_Catalano_with_contributions_by_C_Caldarini_S_Marinozzi_MS_Spinelli_F_Zavaroni_Springer_Heidelberg_2015_171

Laying out what the state of the average worker in a Roman City would have been like.
Perhaps in the countryside things would have been different, but the countryside is not what people are discussing when it comes to the greatness of a respective culture or society.

[Anonymous No.16718831]

>>16717900
>less misogynistic
They literally deposed of Boudicca because they couldn’t wrap their head around a female ruler.

[Anonymous No.16718839]

>>16718649
>The Greeks have better philosophy, I'll give you that, but look at what that did to them.
>your ideas don't matter if I have a bigger army
Typical roman

[Anonymous No.16718844]

>>16718812
>Laying out what the state of the average worker in a Roman City would have been like.
Sure, people might have been thrown at a problem in the case of massive public works, and they got crushed by boulders and shit. But most of a population would have to live past 30 or there would be literally no civilisation possible.

[Anonymous No.16718858]

>>16718839
What's good is what survives, anon.

[Anonymous No.16718873]

>>16717900
Good bait.

I would say you are coming on a little hard, but I guess you cant be too subtle given the average /lit/ user.

[Anonymous No.16718920]

>>16718096
Well I dont know if its a compliment, but well ... Thank you I guess.

[Anonymous No.16718956]

>>16718722
all the more reason to become a NEET lol

[Anonymous No.16718965]

>>16718157
What does a roman do? Talk chinesse and take pictures of everything; or is it being a nigger and bully-scam people by harassing them with bracelets?
I dunno, Im just askin here.

[Anonymous No.16718982]

>>16718965
>being a nigger and bully-scam people by harassing them with bracelets?
not him but unironically what happened to me last time I was in Italy. Crawling with feral pavement apes putting bracelets in peoples hands and then screaming at them when they say no thanks.

[Anonymous No.16718991]

>>16718649
You’re just listing off names you’ve heard but haven’t read.

>>16718956
How the fuck could you feasibly become a neet in America? It’s not like you just walk down to your local social security office and ask for neetbux. You have to be legitimately crippled or dying to get that shit.

[Anonymous No.16719002]

>>16717892
>Greece or Rome
Its one civilization, not two. It begun in Hellas and continued in Roma but there it degenerated.

[Anonymous No.16719011]

>>16718649
>More = better
Homer surpasses them all, the Aeneid is a beautiful homage to Homer, but it does not best its inspiration

[Anonymous No.16719019]

>>16717900
arches and domes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> columns and tympanums

so, rome, by far

[Anonymous No.16719037]

read this to see why greeks are superior. greeks may have been fags but rome was totally degenerate

[Anonymous No.16719078]

>>16718991
>How the fuck could you feasibly become a neet in America? It’s not like you just walk down to your local social security office and ask for neetbux. You have to be legitimately crippled or dying to get that shit.
dunno where that guy was but who fucking knows. would love to have asked him more desu.

[Anonymous No.16719088]

>>16719037
wanna hit me with an elevator pitch about what the main idea is, I am interested to know know.

[Anonymous No.16719110]

>>16719088
Its a view of roman life for the aristocracy, constant orgies and pedophilia

[Anonymous No.16719165]

>>16719110
Ok and? whats bad about that?

[Anonymous No.16719172]

>>16719165
predictable canned reddit response. flee.

[Anonymous No.16719213]

>>16719172
Brother you know it was a joke ?

[Anonymous No.16719456]

>>16718991
>You’re just listing off names you’ve heard but haven’t read.
Projection. Literally all of them except Lucretius are basic authors you read in any Latin course.

>>16719011
That's a defensible view. I just think the Aeneid is more than a homage, it's an incredible poem in its own right. And poets like Catullus and Martial just feel much closer than any of the Greek poets.

[Anonymous No.16719532]

>>16719456
the iliad made me cry; aeneid didn't

[Anonymous No.16719541]

>>16719532
go cry about it

[Anonymous No.16719639]

>>16719213
sorry. i kneel

[Anonymous No.16719646]

Rome was better at:
>architecture
>engineering/infrastructure
>military
Greeks btfo them in everything else

[Anonymous No.16719649]

>>16719639
No need for that brother stay strong and free.

[Anonymous No.16719820]

>>16719456
>And poets like Catullus and Martial just feel much closer than any of the Greek poets.
As Nietzsche says
>To the Greeks I do not by any means owe similarly strong impressions; and--to come right out with it--they cannot mean as much to us as the Romans. One does not learn from the Greeks--their manner is too foreign, and too fluid, to have an imperative, a "classical" effect.
It is precisely because the Greeks are further from us culturally and intellectually that they are more valuable than the Romans. In Roman poetry we find a mirror, and in Greek poetry we find an ocean whose obscure depths we have yet to discern even after 2500+ years.

[Anonymous No.16719943]

>>16718956
In 20 day i'll finally hit 25, in France when you hit 25 you can have lifetime neetbux of 550€ i'll finally live my minimalistic neet life of my dream, i'll read books, fish, lift weight, fuck thots on tinder, hike, climb, i can't wait after working for 3 years straight

[Anonymous No.16719962]

>>16719943
based. I also heard from a friend that lived there that if you have lived their for a number of years you can get welfare for life after leaving france and moving abroad. is that true?

[Anonymous No.16719967]

>>16719943
>in France when you hit 25 you can have lifetime neetbux of 550€
wtf? explain

[Anonymous No.16720014]

>>16719962
I don't know about that but you piqued my curiosity, i'll search about that, seem too good to be true tho
>>16719962
It's called the RSA (Revenue de solidarité active) you can even couple it with the APL (aide personnalisée au logement) which is a help of about 200€ on your rent, thanks socialism

[Anonymous No.16720055]

>>16719962
Seems like you can still have the neetbux if you move abroad less than 3 months, good to know.

[Anonymous No.16720547]

>>16718770
This; also, the average life expectancy was 30, but it actually went down after the fall of the Western empire. Plus, this does not factor in infant and child mortalities.

[Anonymous No.16720594]

fuck rome, glad it died. anything between the hellenic and medieval periods (until the holy roman empire) are dogshit

[Anonymous No.16720696]

>>16717892
The Greeks were better all-around thinkers, the Romans were better at application.

[Anonymous No.16720764]

>>16720594
t. jew

[Anonymous No.16720855]

>>16719646
the romans had better laws and above all created an higher morality, before greek intellectualism infected them. their strive for glory but at the same time temperance and clemency for the defeated, a magnanimity which came from the acknowledgment of their superiority, a generosity in recognizing where and when foreigners were better than them, which came from the certainty of their dominance, hardness - and even more on themselves than on their subjects, in one word: honor, this entirely, long lasting roman concept, which the greeks lacked... this is the apogee of aristocratic morality in the ancient world. the human kind had 2 ethical systems in history: honor and (mutual) love, the former was fulfilled by the romans, the latter probably by the buddhists.

[Anonymous No.16720875]

>>16719646 #
the romans had better laws and above all created an higher morality, before greek intellectualism infected them. their strive for glory never impinged their temperance and clemency for the defeated, they had a magnanimity which came from the acknowledgment of their superiority, a generosity in recognizing where and when foreigners were better than them, which came from the certainty of their dominance, they had hardness - and even more on themselves than on their subjects - in one word: honor, this entirely, long lasting roman concept and term... this is the apogee of aristocratic morality in the ancient world. the human kind had 2 ethical systems in history: honor and (mutual) love, the former was fulfilled by the romans, the latter probably by the buddhists

[Anonymous No.16721501]

>>16718157
>>16718157
kek

[Anonymous No.16722472]

>>16718586
source?

[Vergil Stan No.16722650]

>>16719011
Vergil was superior to Homer in the Aeneid, as he was superior to the Alexandrians and Theocritus in the Eclogues and Hesiod in the Georgics. Vergil was able to pay great homage to his predecessors but still surpasses them in one way or another: the tragedy of Dido and Aeneas' struggle with destiny in the Aeneid, expansion of the pastoral tradition by melding the Italian countryside, its personages, and the philosophy of his day with the mythical stories and divinities of Sicily and Arcadia in the Eclogues, and the call to virtuous work and the depiction of man's struggle with nature by said work in the Georgics.

[Anonymous No.16722724]

>>16717892
How is it /lit/ you big fucking faggot? Kys.