/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16683981]

>fascism is capitalism in decay

do commies actually believe this? are they really this fucking stupid?

[Anonymous No.16683984]

what's fascism and what's capitalism, OP?

[Anonymous No.16683996]

>>16683981
>do commies actually believe this?

Some do.

>are they really this fucking stupid?

All are.

>>16683984
Not OP, but:

>«Il Fascismo è una grande mobilitazione di forze materiali e morali. Che cosa si propone? Lo diciamo senza false modestie: governare la Nazione. Con quale programma? Col programma necessario ad assicurare la grandezza morale e materiale del popolo italiano. Parliamo schietto: non importa se il nostro programma concreto, non è antitetico ed è piuttosto convergente con quello dei socialisti, per tutto ciò che riguarda la riorganizzazione tecnica, amministrativa e politica del nostro Paese. Noi agitiamo dei valori morali e tradizionali che il socialismo trascura o disprezza, ma soprattutto lo spirito fascista rifugge da tutto ciò che è ipoteca arbitraria sul misterioso futuro.»
(Benito Mussolini, 19 agosto 1921 - Diario della Volontà)

[Anonymous No.16684000]

>>16683981
>do commies actually believe this?
Yes
>are they really this fucking stupid?
Yes

[Anonymous No.16684010]

>>16683981
What distinguishes fascism from ordinary right-wing patriarchal autocracies is the way it attempts to cultivate a revolutionary aura. Fascism offers a beguiling mix of revolutionary-sounding mass appeals and reactionary class politics.

[Anonymous No.16684011]

>>16683996
Let me translate:

>Fascism is a great mobilization of material and moral forces. What does it propose? We say without false modesty: to govern the Nation. With what program? With the necessary program to secure the material and moral greatness of the Italian people. Let us talk straight: it doesn't matter if our concrete program is not antithetical and is indeed more convergent with that of the socialists, due to all that has to do with the technical, administrative and political reorganization of our country. We agitate moral and traditional values which socialism ignores or despises, but above all the fascist spirit runs away from anything that constitutes an arbitrary mortgage over the mysterious future.

[Anonymous No.16684014]

>>16683996
so fascism is the force of morality suffused with production? And capitalism is production without the force of morality? Wouldn't then production with resurgent morality be a good definition of capitalism in decay, because it's going from no-morality to morality. And isn't moralism an attempt to reprogram the socius when things are going wrong? almost like decaying? This is all making quite a lot of sense with that quote.

[Anonymous No.16684021]

>>16683984
Fascism is a radical form of totalitarian paligenetic ultranationalism, largley a-economic in form, but certainly with a socialized twist. Its essential goal being able to recapture "human authenticty" within modernity. The idea of "authenticty" being different from each fascist, as long as it has that essential featue of "totalitarian paligenetic ultranationalism". A fascist considers this as a practical and revolutionary merger of "eternal values" within technological industrialism. Capitalism is a form of trade that has its basis in the age of discovery where peasants were emancipated, and entrepreneurialism became a more practical pursuit, eventually developing into modern capital and finance systems. Specifically and commonly understood as a modern nation's trade and industry being controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state. Fascism thus could feasibly make use of a capitalist economic system, yet suppress and use it for it own ends (which of course it did).

[Anonymous No.16684029]

>>16684011
>muh moral and traditional values
>wow so deep
Fascists are literally pseuds.

[Anonymous No.16684030]

>>16684010
No, what distinguishes fascism from conservatives, is that we hate slimey capitalists and their jewish overlords. Because they have given us mass-migration to suppress wages and dilute our homogenous nations just so they can tax-farm and profit with their businesses
Also we hate communists because you do not respect the culture that we drew a line in the sand with for thousands of years, you will never destroy religion, it is the lifeblood of a nation - and I would agree with Marx about capitalism but his abhorrent materialist "fix" is never going to happen - especially with such an atheistic slant.

It's very convenient that the left can ccuse fascists of being just a variant of liberals, but which political systems are filled with Jews?

Both commies and neoliberals. And coveniently fascism is the only stance that you can be punished for in most Western nations. Almost like the neoliberal jews are running the show and using their revolutionary dumb jews to attack the only force that would ever stop this capitalist shitshow.

[Anonymous No.16684046]

>>16684030
>we hate capitalism
>we hate communism and socialism even more
So what do we do:
>keel capitalism in place but we will gas the jews to create more jobs

W E W.....

[Anonymous No.16684052]

>>16684021
based and saved

[Anonymous No.16684057]

Fascism: the state using its power against labor for private interests
Capitalism: private property and competition

So yes the statement checks out

[Anonymous No.16684059]

>>16683981
kek

[Anonymous No.16684077]

>>16684046
No, we would stop mass-migration, for one. We end the enforced secularism of every public institution, we would provide incentives for native young couples to have families, we would kick out every subversive element - including those industries that refused to pay tax or created products that contributed to ill-health or degeneracy of moral standards. Etc Etc
Focus on health and fitness in schools, and also end the stigma of working in industry over academic pursuits - by actually making products in our own nations to be proud of, bring back the artisans - the pride, the knowledge that is passed down from father to son - etc.
Not these souless factories filled with third worlders for plastic shit we don't even need.

Actual steps to put the people on a healthier and pragmatic trajectory. Not some "Every person needs to own everything" bullshit. And you have the nerve to call us the Idealists.

And on the jewish question, I would make it clear that Jewry is a noted phenonmenon and you can renounce or leave the country, simple as.

[Anonymous No.16684089]

>>16684077
So.... capitalism with some totalitarianism?

[Anonymous No.16684097]

>>16684089
see>>16684021

[Anonymous No.16684099]

>>16684014
>so fascism is the force of morality suffused with production?

In a certain way, yes. But your phrasing is too general.

>And capitalism is production without the force of morality?

No, capitalism is a particular type of production regardless of moral forces being present or not.

>>16684029
I wouldn't say they are, though I disagree with most of what they say.
Giovanni Gentile, for instance, certainly had a philosophically important oeuvre.

[Anonymous No.16684101]

>>16684021
>Fascism thus could feasibly make use of a capitalist economic system, yet suppress and use it for it own ends (which of course it did).
the problem with Fascism is that it basically believes in magic, thus it is incompatible with a capitalist economy which is actually a set of logic. A simple feedback loop of money to capital to more money to more capital, etc. You can't suppress a system that only works if it can grow unbounded by moralities. This is why capitalism is a morality munching machine, as we can see clearly from the situation we are in. The only way to overcome capitalism is to come up with a superior form of logic. This is why right-wingers have turned away from fascism in the past decade or two and have gone back to quasi-monarchism. At least that schematism is compatible with moralities.

[Anonymous No.16684107]

>>16684101
You seem to forget the very effective method of shoving a gun in a capitalists face and telling them "you produce this and only this". Seemed to work quite well for the fascists.

[Anonymous No.16684109]

>>16684089
If you're going to reduce capitalism down to "currency is in someway involved" then yes. You fucking idiot.
We have to use a system of exchange in some way, but it would be specifically oriented towards the nation and its people rather than the globablist cartel currently running things.
Are you incapable of understanding pragmatism in aide of approaching an ideal?

[Anonymous No.16684114]

>>16684099
>>No, capitalism is a particular type of production regardless of moral forces being present or not.
yes, but, isn't it the case that capitalism's imperative of expansion necessarily overturns morality by valuing profit over morality? It seems like capitalism with morality is impossible to have without it always being in a state of decaying. How can you freeze capitalism's tendency to destroy morality without also freezing its productivity? The answer is here: >>16684107. You freeze it with violence! A priest with a gun, that's the only way.

[Anonymous No.16684119]

>>16684097
Yeah, it's capitalism with authoritarian characteristics....

>>16684109
You do not even know what capitalism is, do you..... embarrassing....

[Anonymous No.16684120]

>>16684011
sounds pretty based to me

[Anonymous No.16684131]

>>16684119
You're a fucking faggot who can't even understand a basic point. If you knew the dinstinction between capitalism (I'm talking the neolliberal globalist hegemony capitalism) and fascism in the first place - you wouldn't have to be asking these dumb fucking questions.

[Anonymous No.16684132]

>>16684119
What about if a fascist state were to embrace a state socialist economy? Do you understand now how fascism is an ideology beyond economic systems? And even if it were capitalist economically, so be it. The fact you can't differentiate from liberal and fascist trade shows how poorly the left understand the far right. You should rather call it authoritarianism with capitalist characteristics, not the opposite.

[Anonymous No.16684143]

>>16684132
Bingo, exactly!
You'd think he's get that from my post
>>16684077
>huh, why does he want to end mass migration, that isn't good for capitalism ????

BECAUSE YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF CAPITALISM IS BASED AROUND THE JEWS RUNNING THE SHOW

it's a system of commerce and exchange that can be changed and grafted onto a system that focuses on a higher ideal, and therefore regulates in accordance with those ideals.

Is it all economy with them? Is that it? Do they just see things in terms of possessions? WTF

[Anonymous No.16684144]

>>16683984
Fuck off Fatbot

[Anonymous No.16684169]

>>16684021
damn nice post anon

[Anonymous No.16684179]

>>16684131
I'm not asking questions, I'm just holding up the mirror by making observations, the political economy is still capitalists even if you have a fascist dictator genociding minorities, blocking trade or whatever.

>>16684132
There have been 'leftish' fascists like strasserism and nazbolism but to my knowledge it's just socdem. And even still most fascist were a reaction to socialists and communists, they're historically always opposed, they even persecuted leftists. Fasicist tend to be dishonest and when they say 'well we can be a socialist economy' they never mean abolish private property. They like reactionary class politics, they like the hierarchy of a capitalist ubermench ruling the working untermenschen, they even want the untermensch below in the hierarchy see it as a good thing. Fuck that.

[Anonymous No.16684195]

>>16683981
https://youtu.be/CfHGLcRz-P8

[Anonymous No.16684198]

>>16684179
>There have been 'leftish' fascists like strasserism and nazbolism but to my knowledge it's just socdem

hahahahaha is this really what you believe? you may as well call stalinism socdem as this point god hahahaha not even going to respond to the rest of your points you're such an idiot thanks for the laugh tho anon lmao

[Anonymous No.16684211]

>>16683981
By using a definition of capitalism that is so broad as to be meaningless. Under the definition they use the only non-capitalist societies would be either total individualist anarchy with us all living in the woods, or the ridiculous pipe-dream of communism’s endpoint, which itself is only possible on either a small scale with little technology or in a society governed by an omnipotent, omniscient being (ironically for materialists). It’s just because Marxism is horribly reductive into a materialistic system of looking at societies and history that isn’t even consistent with materialist understandings of the universe

[Anonymous No.16684225]

>>16684198
Yes Strasserism was definitely socdem. Nazbol might have been more socialist/communist but I haven't read much about it. Then again it's pretty fringe.

[Anonymous No.16684239]

>>16684179
>I'm not asking questions
You asked this
>>16684089
Demonstrating you don't even get the essential distinctions.
If you really think this
>>16684077
Is the same as capitalism as it already is: then why is it forbidden to even do any of this?
You're a fucking tool for keeping capitalists on top and you don't even realise it.

[Anonymous No.16684244]

>>16684225
lmao dumbest motherfucker ive come across on lit

[Anonymous No.16684251]

>>16684239
>You asked this
It was rhetorical retard.

>>16684244
How is strasserism socialist?