/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16677718]

was the whole point of this book to BTFO trad-larpers? should modern trads read it to cure their illness?

[Anonymous No.16677749]

No, to mock all the low quality medieval books out there.

[Anonymous No.16677838]

>>16677749
You realize medival books weren’t even that big when el quijote came out right? Cervantes’ critiques were much deeper than that.

[Anonymous No.16677866]

>>16677718
Post your timestamped physique.
The fact that you are detached from the realities of existing, that you veil yourself in irony to escape its consequences, does not mean that all others are the same.

[Anonymous No.16678021]

this book was obviously revolutionary for the novel but imo its been far surpassed by its successors. im on pg 660/940 now and yeah it's had great moments and a lot of genius dialogue etc but feel it squeezes every last drop of humour out of every situation, to the point it drags and its momentum is very erratic and jagged. i love long books but this one, for me, suffers for its length

[Anonymous No.16678099]

>>16677718
No, it was about collecting the breadth of different styles of prose that were dying at the time, due to the rise in popularity of certain kinds of popular writing.
I'm not sure how well this translates to English.

[Anonymous No.16678133]

of course some progressive political faggot interprets the whole book through the lens of her ideology :/

[Anonymous No.16678175]

>>16677718
Sort of the opposite. DQ is full of noble ideas, and he eventually leads others around him (especially Sancho) to grow as people. The trouble is that times have changed, and there is no place in the world for noble men. When DQ finally “comes to his senses,” it’s framed as tragic.

[Anonymous No.16678206]

>>16677718
>was the whole point of this book to BTFO trad-larpers?
Didn't make a really good job considering how Quijote went on to become one of the most inspiring and beloved literary characters

[Anonymous No.16678214]

>>16678021
It's a mess. A comolete fluke. Doesn't stop it from being amazing though

[Anonymous No.16678224]

>>16678175
>it’s framed as tragic
Is it? It's tragic alright but not because the narration frames it that way

[Anonymous No.16678278]

>>16678224
>all his friends kneel at his bedside and cry while he dies of unexplained illness that coincides with his newfound sanity
If this isn’t tragic mis-en-scene, I don’t know what is.

[Anonymous No.16678303]

>>16677718
When Sancho receives the government of the insula of Barataria, he ultimately plays an excellent role as a governor. The reader might wonder how is it possible if Sancho is an illiterate peasant. But in previous moments, Don Quixote is giving Sancho advice on how he should behave while holding a political office. These teachings Don Quixote trespasses to Sancho are the pure example of tradition, in its original roman sense, the inheritance of a given legacy that it's worthwhile to be preserved. Tradition is what articulates Sancho's government and what gives him success. Tradition is, in the eyes of Cervantes, the light that guides mankind, connecting ourselves to the past in order to be intimately connected with our own fate.

[Anonymous No.16678328]

>>16678278
It's tragic that he died, not that he died as a sane man. Everyone was on board with him coming to his senses except sancho

[Anonymous No.16678429]

>>16677718
>projecting your shitty modern idpol this hard on a century-old novel

[Anonymous No.16678731]

Don Quijote was unironically the Evangelion of literature

[Anonymous No.16678764]

>>16677718
not trads, idealists

[Anonymous No.16678773]

I prefer Paul Auster's take that it's the first post-modern novel.
>>16678731
also this

[Anonymous No.16678787]

>>16677718
Why do modernoids have to project their mentally ill political obsessions on old books?

[Anonymous No.16678808]

I’ve never read it but I do wonder what you have against traditionalist

[Anonymous No.16678814]

>>16678787
burgers are incapable of refined thinking

[Anonymous No.16678819]

>>16678814
Based and burgerpilled

[Anonymous No.16678818]

>>16678429
It’s called anachronism, it’s something naive people do

[Anonymous No.16678829]

>>16678808
You have to be literally retarded to be against progress

[Anonymous No.16678838]

What is the best translation

[Anonymous No.16678871]

>>16678808
they don't even eat pussy

[Anonymous No.16678937]

>>16678829
>Ellul Jacques

[Anonymous No.16678955]

Th idea that books need to have a "point" is much more modern than this opus.

[Anonymous No.16679083]

>>16678838
>reading translations
Spanish is easy as fuck to learn and the amount of god tier literature available makes it very worth learning.

[Anonymous No.16679092]

>>16678838
None. Francis Bacon wrote DQ originally and had Cervantes translate it, so go read the "first translation" of the book so you can enjoy the original work in its fullest

[Anonymous No.16679100]

>>16679083
>Spanish is easy as fuck to learn and the amount of god tier literature available makes it very worth learning.

Spanish is a niggerlanguage.

[Anonymous No.16679112]

>>16678955
>>16678818
>>16678787
>>16678429
>>16678133
so all books are just stories and none of them have any point they want to show?

[Anonymous No.16679120]

>>16677718
>was the whole point of this book to BTFO trad-larpers?
Yes.
>should modern trads read it to cure their illness?
No, it was written by a Jew, so who cares.

[Anonymous No.16679124]

>>16679112
Yes. They all make points on modern burger politics, even the Epic of Gilgamesh.

[Anonymous No.16679167]

>>16678328
I haven't read it in a while, but I think the priest and the barber were trying to get him lit up to become a shepherd as he planned
So they weren't on board because to some extent sanity is what was killing him (depression)

[Anonymous No.16679177]

(((Cervantes)))

[Anonymous No.16679180]

>>16679083
Am learning it right now.

Though to be fair, never read it in English, but in my mother tongue Russian, which allows for rich prose and humor alike, and translation was very competent

[Anonymous No.16679223]

>>16677866
t. incel NEET that started working out 2 weeks ago and is inevitably gonna quit once he can't balance 12 hours of twitter shitposting with his 25 pushups a day routine

[Anonymous No.16679245]

>>16678175
This, OP. Quixote is in the right, it's the rest of the world that's wrong. Several times throughout the book he mentions that even if he's mistaken about knight errantry then it doesn't matter because it causes him to strive to greatness.

[Anonymous No.16679258]

>>16679245
>it's everyone else that's wrong! Nuh uh my anachronistic ideals are gud!
holy schizo

[Anonymous No.16679264]

There is no curing traditionalist retardation. The solution is to render them irrelevant and impotent, such that they can yell, complain, and bang pots together all they want without influencing anything of importance.

[Anonymous No.16679287]

Rightist culture should be accelerated towards the greatest absurdities possible, their ignorance magnified and inflamed, so as to render them completely and totally strategically incompetent and unable to respond to concrete reality.

Thankfully this process is going along nicely.

[Anonymous No.16679327]

>>16679112

No obviously Cervantes wanted to BTFO the libs

[Anonymous No.16679334]

>>16679100
Lol, English is literally the nigger's language of choice mister
>Shieeeeeet

[Anonymous No.16679341]

>>16679258
I'm talking about the view that the narration puts forward, not my own view. Often Quixote is shown as more reasonable and noble than the "sane" people around him. An example off the top of my head is his argument against the cleric in the duke and duchesses house in part two:
>Otherwise tell me, your grace: for which of the inanities that you have seen in me do you condemn and revile me, and order me to return to my house and tend to it and my wife and my children, not knowing if I have one or the other? Or is it enough for clerics simply to enter other people’s houses willy-nilly to guide the owners, even though some have been brought up in the narrow confines of a boarding school and never have seen more of the world than the twenty or thirty leagues of their district, and then suddenly decide to dictate laws to chivalry and make judgments concerning knights errant? Is it by chance frivolous, or is the time wasted that is spent wandering the world, not seeking its rewards but the asperities by which the virtuous rise to the seat of immortality?
If knights, and the great, the generous, and the highborn considered me a fool, I would take it as an irreparable affront; but that I am thought a simpleton by students who never walked or followed the paths of chivalry does not concern me in the least: a knight I am, and a knight I shall die, if it pleases the Almighty.

[Anonymous No.16679350]

>>16679287
Yikers.

[Anonymous No.16679390]

>>16678303
t. Nueva Acropolis fag

[Anonymous No.16679429]

>>16679245
Isn't it weird that at first he's genuinely insane and sees visions of castles and giants, but then later he says "Yeah basically errantry is a thing of the past, but I will revive that golden age because the world needs it now more than ever"

[Anonymous No.16679441]

>>16679341
You're arguing with an anon who almost certainly hasn't read the book but unironic props to you for effort.

[Anonymous No.16679599]

It's weird that some of you see no value in tradition. Progress alone is foolish. We must take with us the tradition that has value and throw away what is not valuable. It's one of the longest human battles of all time.

[Anonymous No.16679656]

>>16677718

It was just prior to the enlightenment. A point of the first book was to attack moral objectivity, by demonstrating that reality is made up of multiple view points / interpretations, none of which are fully correct on their own.

The second was about the mixture of idealism to realism, as Sancho became more idealistic (refusing Ricote's money), and Quixote becoming more realistic in his world view (seeing inns instead of castle, accepting humilation instead of coping by blaming enchanters, etc.)

[Anonymous No.16680818]

>>16679429
Yeah I feel like the characters are much more developed in part two, it comes across in Quixote's more nuanced madness and Sancho's better insight. Honestly if Cervantes never wrote part two I doubt it would be considered such a classic. I also wonder if he would have "updated" part one if he lived longer. Quixote's madness is a lot more le epic random in part one but used as a literary device in part two.

[Anonymous No.16681037]

>>16680818
My favorite part of the sequel is how it shits on all the fanfiction/plagiarism hacks
Some things just never change

[Anonymous No.16681073]

It's sad to see /lit/ misinterpret Don Quijote, go talk about DFW and Guenon instead.

[Anonymous No.16681710]

>>16677718
Don Quixote is basically just a meta-commentary on the absolute state of western society in the kali yug

OP is a brainlet hylic

[Anonymous No.16682811]

>>16677718
>>16678829
>>16679100
>>16679112
literal retards

[Anonymous No.16682880]

>>16679100
lmao English is a creole language

[Anonymous No.16682981]

>>16682880
All languages are an english creole now.

[Anonymous No.16683050]

>>16677718
>was the whole point of this book to BTFO trad-larpers?
Yes but it flips back around to Don Quixote being based and in the right.

[Anonymous No.16683063]

>>16677718
>should modern trads read it to cure their illness?
Oh you mean the same book where the main character gets an existential crisis after realizing the folly of his LARP, slumps away into his corner, and dies a lonely pathetic death?

[Anonymous No.16683069]

>>16678328
>It's tragic that he died, not that he died as a sane man.
What a worthless superficial understanding of the character Don Quixote holy shit. He threw away the moniker "Don Quixote" and died shortly afterwards. It is absolutely not a coincidence in the narrative sense.

[Anonymous No.16683101]

>>16678731
Not really, Cervantes completely destroyed the entire genre for centuries to come and defined literature up to that point, Evangelion was subsumed into the medium it attempted to deconstruct.

[Anonymous No.16683110]

>>16679120
>No, it was written by a Jew, so who cares.
t. /pol/tard

[Anonymous No.16683306]

>>16677718
>those moments in part 2 where Cervantes roasts the imposter Don Quixote part 2

[Anonymous No.16683319]

>>16677718
Is Don Quixote a good book to pick up for a retard who hasn't read in half a decade? The last book I read was 1984

[Anonymous No.16683324]

>>16683319
1984 was more than half a decade ago bro

[Anonymous No.16683333]

>>16677718
It was a critique of Spanish literary society's obsession with picaresque novels.

[Anonymous No.16683366]

>>16683324
seriously dude is don quixote good for a retard. I was thinking about either reading Don Quixote, Blood Meridian, Infinite Jest or Bronze Age Mindset as my first book to read

or should I start with the "how to read" book and then the greeks like /lit/ suggests?

[Anonymous No.16683412]

>>16678021
what about the part were they all meet in the tavern and just casually tell stories about cucking?

[Anonymous No.16683418]

>>16677838
>Cervantes’ critiques were much deeper than that.
name 1 (one) deeper critique

[Anonymous No.16683419]

>>16679223
You're only proving his point, queer.

[Anonymous No.16683420]

>>16678175
>>16679245
>>16679258
but he is THE joke the whole book, even if it has some dramatic tones at times

[Anonymous No.16683423]

>>16678206
most beloved as a tragic-comedic figure, not as a figure to inspire people into heroism

[Anonymous No.16683426]

>>16683366
I would recommend you to start with other readings, DQ is quite hard for a beginner.

[Anonymous No.16683427]

>>16678328
>tfw you'll never read part 3 where Sancho and Quixote become shepherds
feels bad man

[Anonymous No.16683428]

>>16683426
like what

[Anonymous No.16683429]

>>16678787
it's obviously a critique of a traditional worldview though?

[Anonymous No.16683433]

>>16678829
What progress?

[Anonymous No.16683434]

>>16683428
Kafka for example.

[Anonymous No.16683438]

>>16679599
>We must take with us the tradition that has value and throw away what is not valuable.
that's just pragmatic modernism though

[Anonymous No.16683446]

>>16683333
chivalry novels are not picaresque novels? it's like the opposite, and even though Quixote is comical, it is way way way less cynical than your average picaresque novel, where everybody is just a thief, hungry and getting raped all the time

[Anonymous No.16683451]

>>16678829
And when progress leads to a corrupt society, then what?

[Anonymous No.16683482]

>>16677718
Another thread where OP didn't read the book he's posting about.

[Anonymous No.16683488]

>>16683482
i did, i enjoyed the stories about cucking told in the middle of the book

[Anonymous No.16683512]

https://youtu.be/RfHnzYEHAow
Makes me cry every time.

[Anonymous No.16683540]

>>16683434
Is this a serious answer

[Anonymous No.16683546]

>>16683069
He killed him just so other authors wouldn't use him in other unauthorized novels like it happened before. There was no plan, no point. Don Quijote is a total fluke. Any deeper reading you are trying to give it just come from you because it is still an amazing and moving novel despite being a mess that wouldn't even have had a part 2 if someone wasn't stealing Cervantes royalties or whatever

[Anonymous No.16683564]

>>16683366
>is don quixote good for a retard
No. You are going to be filtered hard by the time they get to the stories in the inn, that is if you even get past the book burning. The other books you mentioned are not good either. If you are seriously interested in giving reading a try then go for it, but if you are just looking for an hobby and need to be entertained go for something else
You can find good recs on a reddit list probably, and I'm not saying this in a (completely) derogatory way

[Anonymous No.16683567]

>>16683423
You'd be surprised

[Anonymous No.16683569]

>>16683451
>a corrupt society
t. incel

[Anonymous No.16683588]

> he rides at windmills, thinking they are giant evil wizards or something

I dropped it soon after that. What retardation. This i meant to be deep satire?

[Anonymous No.16683595]

>>16683540
Why not

[Anonymous No.16683613]

>>16683564
I don’t understand this at all. Don Q was clearly a book for peasants, their version of a very stupid cartoon character. “Hehe Don Q is so stupid so deluded hehe”. The humour is unsubtle. Don Q is a mouth breathing retard. I could imagine a character like him today only in something like a Shrek movie. The fact this book affected the culture only speaks to the stupidity of the culture.

[Anonymous No.16683625]

>>16683569
cope as you can, manlet

[Anonymous No.16683639]

>>16683613
I don't see what any of that has anything to do with my post since I simply told the tard that parts of the book will filter him, not because they are too smart mind you, simply because a tard will find them boring/pointless/confusing/whatever
Anyway itt you already have good observations about how dq is much more than a cook having crazy antics against imaginary foes and goes on to become a very realized characters with interesting ideas and an inspiring spirit who is often times portrayed as smarter and less crazy than the society and culture he lives in

[Anonymous No.16683704]

>>16683613
>Don Q is a mouth breathing retard
There is a reason the title is "The Ingenious Gentleman Don Quijote de la Mancha" anon
Did you read the whole thing or got to the windmill part, said to yourself "this is reddit, this is memes", closed the book and got on /lit/

[Anonymous No.16683713]

>>16683704
never heard about irony?

[Anonymous No.16683746]

>>16683713
don quixote is a genius obviously lol

[Anonymous No.16683772]

>>16683713
>lulz look at this jackass btfoing supposedly much smarter and wiser individuals in every conversation, not succumbing to their grey and cynical world view and instead pursuing a life of idealism and wonder and even turning his peasant friend into a great leader through his teachings. I will call him ingenious, that will be le i r o n i c and make smarties smirk eheh

[Anonymous No.16683848]

>>16683540
Unironically a good suggestion. The metamorphosis for instance is short, very easy, and about so many things at once, most of which were probably not even intended by the author, that even an illiterate retard could come up with a valid reading unless he stops at "he turns into a bug and just dies"

[Anonymous No.16683859]

>>16683772
Not the guy you're replying to but you have problems Anon, I suggest a short break from this webzone and maybe social media in general.

[Anonymous No.16683870]

>>16683512
Fuck

[Anonymous No.16683907]

>>16677838
I'm from Spain and that's what our text book said. The only medieval book Cervantes respected was Tirant Lo Blanc.

[Anonymous No.16683911]

>>16683907
the barber and priest save a few more books, not just that one, the maid wanted to burn them all

[Anonymous No.16683978]

Don Quixote claims cannon has turned warfare from 'a unit of quality to a unit of quantity'. Not progressive.

[samefag No.16684111]

>>16683907
he wasn't against medival books, but against idealism, and this includes the christfags and the chivalric fantastic novels like "Amadís de Gaula". He wouldn't be against the Celestina, 'The Book of Good Love' or Jorge Manrique's poetry

[samefag No.16684186]

>>16679287
nowdays the post-modern left is what is less in touch with reality, anon

[Anonymous No.16684246]

>>16684186
Cope chud

[Anonymous No.16684351]

After reading this book I kind of wanted to be a governor of an insula

[Anonymous No.16685747]

>>16677838
Did your version not have Cervantes' introduction?

[Anonymous No.16685884]

no, midwit opinion. the whole tragic element is how quixote would have been a hero in a former age, but is now a laughing stock- but he doesn't give a fuck and refuses to kneel. however, he is eventually beaten down, and realises he cannot fight the march of history, but thats a sad thing and not meant to be funny. you only find him ridiculous because you yourself are out of touch with virtue, which is the whole point

[Anonymous No.16685895]

>>16685884
Classic case of unwittingly identifying with the villain.

[Anonymous No.16685928]

>>16685895
how is Don Quixote the villain lol? He acts with the noblest intentions.

[Anonymous No.16686051]

>>16685895
Imagine thinking you are meant to dislike quixote, or even that a villain dying cannot be tragic. Actually read the book bro

[Anonymous No.16686099]

>>16685895
classic case of being a stooge for entropy

[Anonymous No.16686153]

>>16678829
Ah yes climate change (assuming it’ll happen, I won’t be suprised if it doesn’t but will also not be suprised If it does

[Anonymous No.16686834]

>>16678787
stop seething

[Anonymous No.16686856]

>>16679223
>ridiculing people for making an effort to take care of their bodies
HAESfag pls

[Anonymous No.16686915]

Lol I just read the bit where sancho panza finally consents (with important conditions) to be given 3.3k lashes. Really funny and honestly genius

[Anonymous No.16688171]

>>16678829
>muh progress

What are you progressing toward, faggot?

[Anonymous No.16688217]

>>16679287
That’s what the left has already done

[Anonymous No.16688229]

>>16683569
You need to get laid

[Anonymous No.16688263]

>400 years old and still filtering
Truly a masterpiece.

[Anonymous No.16688372]

>>16681073
Ironically now that you mention it - I think DFW is up there with DQ as one of the most misunderstood and divisive topics on /lit/

[Anonymous No.16688433]

>>16683420
This. I heard about this interpretation of the Don being in the right and that's the whole point before I read it, so I approached the story with that in mind. It completely doesn't hold up. Especially when his death at the end has him snap to his senses and denounce all of the actions he made while pursuing knight errantry. It was a very sad and pathetic end to his tale, and not in a poetically beautiful way. Someone on here posited that he dies just so that other authors won't create fanfic sequels to the story like they did last time, which I entirely agree with.

[Anonymous No.16688441]

>>16678829
You have to be literally retarded to believe in the illusion of progress.

[Anonymous No.16688710]

>>16688433
yeah you are just an insectbrain with no sense of poest at all. of course its pathetic, its meant to be. him renouncing what gave him and those around him life amounts to his death. its not meant to be "epic"

[Anonymous No.16688913]

>>16682981
wrong

[Anonymous No.16690103]

>>16679287
>t. lefty whos ideology has never won an election

[Anonymous No.16690124]

>>16678808
Traditionalism is a (post-)modern civilizational phenomenon. It's gay.

[Anonymous No.16690139]

What translation should I read of this or is it worth reading it in the original language

[Anonymous No.16690142]

>>16690139
english, francis bacon wrote it

[Anonymous No.16690143]

>>16678829
>the advancement of the nihilistic lifecult is progress

[Anonymous No.16690252]

>>16688171
progressing towards this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NVsyMalJXo