/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.1667599]

So, I'm writing an alternate history story /lit/. How do I allow Nazi controlled Germany to win WWII in a believable manner? I'm afraid, should it actually get published, historians will rip me a new one. I don't want the actual explaination to take up half my book, either. So points for being concise!

[mcgregor No.1667603]

step one:
have germany not invade russia during the winter
step two:
don't write this alternate history story because it's boring and has been done to death.

[Anonymous No.1667604]

- Make it so that Hitler does not invade the USSR
- Make it so that Hitler stops the attack on Pearl Harbor

These, as far as I can see, were Hitler's biggest mistakes. Maybe make it so that he works harder to make a truce with Britain.

[Anonymous No.1667609]

>>1667603

Ugh, I realize it HAS been done to death, but it's more of a character driven story rather than plot so I think I can make it work without it being completely samefag.

[Anonymous No.1667619]

Do an alternative history, but do a DIFFERENT TOPIC please! All that "Deutschland Deutschland Uber Alles" shit has been done to death. Try something based around the First World War, mush more varied options, and fewer people are well-versed in it so your inconsistencies will be less glaringly obvious.

[mcgregor No.1667646]

>>1667609
consider the following.jpg:
if it's a character driven piece, then why do you need the very specific setting of "third reich triumph"?

[Anonymous No.1667648]

Transcribe The Man in the High Castle. It's pretty much exactly what you're describing.

[No.1667651]

If you're writing an alternate history of WWII and you don't know WWII history well enough to know what Germany did wrong, maybe you should rethink what you are doing.

[mcgregor No.1667657]

also, the great war is way more interesting for literature. read robert graves' goodbye to all that, and then you'll see why

[Anonymous No.1667659]

>>1667603
>have germany not invade russia during the winter

That won't change much, seeing as they didn't invade Russia during the winter in the first place.

[mcgregor No.1667665]

>>1667659
welllllll they began their invasion in summer but lasted until winter of the next year. so technically yes, they didn't invade in the winter, but they were fighting in russia during the winter

[Anonymous No.1667666]

Maybe give Germany stronger ties to Japan and have both of them dp Soviet Russia.

Or come up with some sort of bullshit explanation for the US siding with the Axis or just choosing to remain neutral.

[Anonymous No.1667674]

you could have them germans succeding with ze bomb first, and +1 on stopping pearl harbour

[Anonymous No.1667672]

Have Goering actually succeed at Dunkirk and fuck up the British army.

And have.... I dunno, the Italians producing tanks with German designs so they won't get immediately raped in Africa.

[Anonymous No.1667677]

>>1667666
Nice trips.

Historically and politically this is highly unrealistic to give Germany stronger ties with Japan, they were vastly dissimilar and also the relation between Germany and Russia was fated to collapse. Although OP is looking for an alternate history this is not believable enough.

[Anonymous No.1667687]

Pearl Harbor never happened, American Jacksonian thought prevails and Roosevelt is unable to gain support for aiding Europe until it's to late.

[Anonymous No.1667703]

>>1667599

the only thing you need to do is stop Germans from attacking USSR before troding Britain to the ground

[Anonymous No.1667709]

>300,000 British pow's captured at Dunkirk
>Churchill fails to convince coalition government to continue war, britain makes separate peace with germany in exchange for return of pows, concentrates on pacific war against japan.
>No D-day.
>No battle of britain decimating the German air force, allowing them to concentrate air assets on eastern front.

[Anonymous No.1667712]

>>1667709

the German planes were too short ranged to be effectively used on the Eastern front in greater numbers

[Anonymous No.1667716]

Okay, I think I have a bare bones and simple way to introduce this.

Edward VIII remains as the King of England and because Winston Churchill* was a firm supporter of Edward VIII they become close allies. The relationship between Germany and England grows and they form an allegiance alongside Austria-Hungrary and Russia forming part of the axis. France of course surrenders politically under this and the Treaty of Versailles is pretty much thrown out allowing Germany free reign, they decide not to create an internet European Empire but one that forms with Britains to be co-owners of the colonial Empire. Boom unstoppable world fucking European powers all staying as one everyone accepts Fascism and Nationalism and Germany goes on to extend the British Empire with its tyrannical methods. Not just a victory for Hitler but a significant move into a democratic world domination method.

*Churchill at this point was the commander of the Military giving him good sway of Chamberlain at that time who steps down as usual because of the fact he was a massive pussy.

[None !tRipFagZxM No.1667718]

> Have Guiseppe Zangara, succeed in assassinating FDR.
and what he >>1667604 said

[Anonymous No.1667738]

>>1667599
Germany keeps to Treaty of Non-Aggression, takes out the rest of Western Europe, then invents the nuke before murrika.

job done.

[Anonymous No.1667744]

>>1667738
and obviously, once they had nukes they would use them against Russia in an invasion because those crazy bastards wouldn't have surrendered. Britain could probably have been threatened with nuking after a heavier bombing campaign than the blitz. Something more along the lines of what we did to Berlin.

[Anonymous No.1667743]

German scientists were competing to develop atomic weapons.
They won the race, threat of total destruction dissuaded America from its prolonged assistance.

Following years resulted in a takeover of Western Europe via a web of puppet governments etc.

Taking over America would be an issue, given the amount of extrapolation.
I would prefer a book that had something along the lines of a
tenuous treaty with some sort of N & S America alliance, maybe the Aussies too.

[Anonymous No.1667770]

the russian revolution failed

[Anonymous No.1667793]

Simply, either America or Russia or Britain never goes in against Germany and the axis forces.

Hitler's invasion of Russia was a reaction to the very real threat of yet another power joining the allies (America). Hitler was hoping to make them think they'd weaken Russia if left to their own devices.

[Anonymous No.1667811]

>>1667743
I don't think the nuke made that much of a difference. Back then, you still needed to project air power over your targets, and firebombing was already potent enough. In the long run, scales of economy would have meant nuking was cheaper, but we're talking about the long run in which everything is totally annihilated either way. Nazi Germany was different with their rocket technology, but they still had no ability to hit the US. Especially with something as expensive as a first generation nuke.

[Anonymous No.1667817]

actually even with america and/or russia out of the equation germany still probably would've managed to fuck it up because hitler was a dumbass when it came to management and pitted all his subordinates against one another for the most disorganized and inefficient system possible

[Anonymous No.1667820]

>>1667665
Yeah, but they fought Russia during the winter when they hadn't expected it. If they had, they might have actually fitted their soldiers for winter.

If this sounds dumb, that's because of hindsight. It was a reasonable presumption that their blitzkrieg tactics would have beaten Russia in the time they had.

[Anonymous No.1667824]

Stalin launches an attack on the Germans prior to Operation Barbarossa, the red army takes Poland and suffers a massive panzer encirclement. The massive loss in divisional strength allows the Germans to blitz straight to Moscow without having to suffer the Russian winter. While the other half of Russia remains Soviet-controlled for the most of the war, the Germans effectively cripple Russia.

As a result, Germany throws the rest of its military against the Brits while their forces are still stuck fighting Rommel and successfully conquer Britain. WWII ends at this point, America fights the pacific war independent of a German land war.
After the war there is a period of mass domestic resettling and economic growth for Germany.

But seriously, don't do this

[mcgregor No.1667844]

>>1667824
>But seriously, don't do this
>But seriously, don't do this
>But seriously, don't do this
>But seriously, don't do this
>But seriously, don't do this
>But seriously, don't do this
>But seriously, don't do this
>But seriously, don't do this
>But seriously, don't do this

[Anonymous No.1667963]

WW2 alt history has been done to death, if you must do it make it so that's it not the main focus of the story.

[Anonymous No.1667965]

>>1667824
might be the least realistic alt history ww2 scenario i've ever heard

[Anonymous No.1668438]

its already been done

[Anonymous No.1668445]

[Anonymous No.1668448]

>>1667824

>Massive soviet loss in division strength
>That already happened, and the Germans still didn't get to Moscow.

3/10, thank you for the idea though.

[Anonymous No.1668456]

>>1667709
+1 for originality

[Anonymous No.1668473]

>Germany develops longer-range V-3 missile
>can now attack targets halfway across the world

meanwhile, in the pacific
>Operation Olympic goes ahead
>gets destroyed, hundreds of thousands Americans dead on the beaches
>America has to pull out of the war to recover
>Britain now lacks support
>Germany takes back its land on the Western front, takes England, Scotland, & Ireland

but don't do this, it's seriously the most overdone alternate history

do something about Napoleon living forever or something

[Anonymous No.1668499]

Unless you can improve on The Man in the High Castle, don't do this.

[Anonymous No.1668512]

>>1668473
>do something about Napoleon living forever or something
Ha!

[Anonymous No.1668541]

>>1668473
>but don't do this, it's seriously the most overdone alternate history

>do something about Napoleon living forever or something
I would've liked to have seen a story where Napoleon successfully took back Haiti, didn't abandon the idea of an oversea empire, and didn't sell Louisiana.

Instead of being exiled to Elba, he could've been ceded Louisiana as an attempt to get him out of their hair. Set him up to be lauded as a hero in Louisiana, the man who toppled the monarchy to fight for "the common man," (by the monied interests who weren't royalty,) have Westward lands attempt to join him, and have Louisiana, USA, Texas, Mexico, and Canada as the major North America players.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/U.S._Territorial_Acquisitions.png

But it's probably been done, and I just don't know about it.

[Anonymous No.1668552]

>>1668541

aaron burr seceding would be like this only even cooler i think

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burr_conspiracy

[Anonymous No.1668559]

>>1667712
>the German planes were too short ranged to be effectively used on the Eastern front in greater numbers


It's not as if germany lacked the engineering competence to make longer ranged aircraft if they truly needed them.

[Anonymous No.1668578]

>>1668552
Ooooh, nice.

But if OP is insistent on WWII-era, don't give any extra credit to the nazis. On top of trite it takes far too much reach to make it realistic. The failed. Pretty badly, by the end. How about going a little earlier, make the Business Plot successful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot

Then have the US jump in to help Germany.

[Anonymous No.1668584]

Kill all the Jews, OP?

[Anonymous No.1668707]

>>1668578
>it takes far too much reach to make it realistic.

No it doesn't.

Their failures stem from some pretty basic managerial and tactical errors. You don't have to go too far to see how it could have turned out vastly different, if you're truly knowledgeable on WW2 history, but I presume you're not.