Pro-war philosophy

[Anonymous No.16675727]

It seems to me that war is just a natural part of the human essence in the same way that it is between men and women, which philosophers write about this? What are some good books on this topic? Am I wrong?

[Anonymous No.16675733]

>>16675727
>natural part of the human essence
How?

[Anonymous No.16675740]

>>16675733
Fpbp

[Anonymous No.16675742]

>>16675727
I believe war to be the necessary chronical reawakening of the human spirit, for the unnatural state of peace to exist.

[Anonymous No.16675743]

why don't you go fight in a war, theorycel?

[Anonymous No.16675744]

>>16675727
Did you just finish Blood Meridian?

[Anonymous No.16675745]

>>16675733
Conflict, in nature it is a constant, fuck, even in literature it is a constant -- polemic writings etc.

[Anonymous No.16675746]

>>16675727
Calling the modern scrabbling of the merchant class in a decadent world "war" Is an insult to true war.

[Anonymous No.16675748]

>>16675742
Or maybe just to balance peace out

[Anonymous No.16675750]

>>16675746
Not calling the modern passive form of industrial war "war".

[Anonymous No.16675752]

>>16675727
>>16675742
If you actually believe all that, join the military and prove it. A sheltered faggy NEET has no right to make such claims.

[Anonymous No.16675755]

>>16675746
>true war
What's that?

[Anonymous No.16675757]

>>16675743

[Anonymous No.16675766]

>>16675755
A necessary and logical goal (like nutrition in nature) and different species of animal being driven towards it.

[Anonymous No.16675777]

>>16675752
>Why don't you go fight for a country that doesn't represent you, just for the sake of being part of a passive industrial complex?

[Anonymous No.16675781]

>>16675727
Heraclitus is exactly what you want.

He has that quote something like
>no part of existence can be taken away without its opposite also doing so.
And there are alas practically an infinitude of quotes about war by him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=El78l6-pNoM

[Anonymous No.16675783]

>>16675752
Everybody should have to prove it, I think that was one of the reasons for the olympics -- maybe the olympics could replace war, my point is just the concept, I'm generally pretty open to suggestions though.

[Anonymous No.16675785]

>>16675755
An entire sacred order against another entire sacred order with religious intent. The Warriors are truly Warriors and have full access to the deepest actualization of their role, and are in pursuit of a uniform spiritual intent which transcends and invigorates every person and rank, not merely glorified international police to keep the wealthy nations undisturbed from the racket of weaker nations.

For God, Guts and Glory, not goldberg's gold gluttony

[Anonymous No.16675788]

>>16675781
lol am reading Heraclitus atm, anon, thats what brought me here, good suggestion though, but he also said that people should beat the shit out of homer

[Anonymous No.16675793]

>>16675785
But if we were so self aware as to understand the necessity for the process itself, why not have some common competitive event, like the olympics?

[Anonymous No.16675803]

>>16675744
Watched a vid on the judge

[Anonymous No.16675805]

>>16675777
>op constructs theory based on literally nothing
>tell op to actual experience war before coming up with theory
>get a basedjak in response
Faggotry like this is why this board’s shilling of Junger was a mistake.

[Anonymous No.16675809]

>>16675777
>>16675783
>>16675785
warfagots everyone

[Anonymous No.16675825]

>>16675793
Sport is a joke that you notice as your eyes scan further down the pyramid.

It replaces the great life and death trial of battle and bloodshed of the warrior for a merely inconsequential simulation of the otherwise deep physcial forces of battle in an athlete transmuted to spectacle for the plebian classes.

Per the high functions of state, It's natural that there should be aggressive play and great competitions where those involved aren't meant to die, but these are circumstances not common or casual enough to constitute "sport". Military training aside of course.

"Sport" as it distinguishes itself from everything i've mentioned above is a commoditized spectacle inconsequential beyond the gambling of plebians.

[Anonymous No.16675828]

>>16675727
Heraclitus

[Anonymous No.16675833]

>>16675809
*HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAs at you in physical prowess*

[Anonymous No.16675842]

>>16675833
So glad that this gay-icon did his lineage a favor and killed himself before he could embarrass himself anymore.

[Anonymous No.16675848]

>>16675842
Just keep proving you're a pussy who doesn't value strength or virtue

[Anonymous No.16675849]

>>16675727
Wanna how I know you've never been to a proper war?

[Anonymous No.16675856]

>>16675805
I made an argument dumbass, conflict is human essence and modern war is a pointless shell of its former self, that is not worth fighting for, since the whole purpose is to fight for your country.

[Anonymous No.16675860]

If any of these ramblings about war appeal to you, remind yourself that these people also post on this website.

[Anonymous No.16675863]

>>16675849
Wanna know how I know you don't know this stranger on an anonymus imageboard?

[Anonymous No.16675864]

>>16675860
>People can't say things or give sources to things which do not immediately relate to themselves

[Anonymous No.16675869]

>>16675860
>Gaslights as an argument

[Anonymous No.16675872]

>>16675833
>>16675848
>gets rejected from the Japanese imperial army
>LARPs as a warrior then kills himself
TRVE STRVGTH AND VIRTVE
THE WVRRIOR LIVES IN ME

[Anonymous No.16675884]

>>16675727
Hey guys, war is bad, stay in bed, just NEET out, eat tendies, get fat, sit down a lot and put on a bitchcage

[Anonymous No.16675888]

>>16675872
>Mocks something as noble as a coup d'etat
What have you done for your country, anon?

[Anonymous No.16675894]

>>16675848
>is remembered by the mainstream today as an lgbt writer instead of a “nationalist hero”
Mishima’s strength and virtue came from a place of insecurity - and it didn’t get him anymore.

[Anonymous No.16675899]

>>16675894
*anywhere

[Anonymous No.16675900]

>>16675864
Yes, war and conflict in general are lived experiences, given that, it's safe to say not a single Anon on this board has anything of worth to say about it, all romanticism, delusion, bias and presupposition none of which is worth bothering with.
>>16675888
It was an act of selfishness, nothing more, if you know anything about him that should be clear enough.

[Anonymous No.16675999]

>>16675900
Oh, and you can prove intent? What references do you hold on the context of the situation?

[Anonymous No.16676052]

>>16675727
They weren't philosophers, but the italian futurists talked a great deal about the necessity and awesomeness of war. Ironically, the movement was pretty much killed by WW1 and wasn't much more than a hollowed out shell domesticated by Mussolini afterwards.

[Anonymous No.16676211]

Friedrich Nietzsche on the necessity of war:
https://www.stephenhicks.org/2013/03/10/friedrich-nietzsche-on-the-necessity-of-war

The Philosophy of War:
https://iep.utm.edu/war

[Anonymous No.16676461]

>>16675727
I remember when I was 19 too

[Anonymous No.16676467]

>>16676211
In which book does he mention this?

[Anonymous No.16676469]

>>16676461
>Gaslights instead of arguing
Just don't post at all

[Anonymous No.16676510]

>>16675727
"I'm pro-war because I know I won't go die in a battlefield for random people's sake and I can simply stay at home discussing murder aesthetically."

[Anonymous No.16676524]

>>16675999
lol it's not some big secret that his "coup" was just the prelude for his self-absorbed suicide.

[Anonymous No.16676557]

>>16676211
>“I welcome all signs that a more virile, warlike age is about to begin, which will restore honor to courage above all. For this age shall prepare the way for one yet higher, and it shall gather the strength that this higher age will require one day—the age that will carry heroism into the search for knowledge and that will wage wars for the sake of ideas and their consequences.”
Unsurprising that neetch was completely wrong about war.

[Anonymous No.16676578]

>>16676510
"Random peoples sake" is modern war, idiot.

[Anonymous No.16676585]

>>16676510
You don't even know, that pre 20th century, war in germany was a festive occasion, celebrated by the masses.

[Anonymous No.16676589]

Plato's Laws. Although it is in favor of diplomatic wars, (defending a neighbor, earning favors).

[Anonymous No.16676590]

>>16676524
Then argue

[Anonymous No.16676591]

In the greatest works of war beauty succeeds devastation, and neither is revelled in. Neither poetic nor reasoned being is foremost, character is a mere reflection of law. In Homer we see the worker-soldiers of Junger already forming, autochthonous figures but also without heroism. Their appearance is even increased where it is revealed from behind the cruel work of the heroes, which we see foremost in Nestor who must constantly reason with and incite the lesser heroes, as if dragging them out of the underworld. The aesthetics of the titans and the approaching reign of dark elements once their age has passed. Constrained in the hulls of ships, the coldness of the gods now reduced to labour and defending against the forces of the earth. Hector becomes a boulder sheared from a cliff, the mass of weak men hurl stones just as the giants were commanded by the gods to overwhelm the titans with an endless assault of projectiles. Where the simple is drawn down into crudeness the gods are blinded before their labour of war. And where the human element becomes foremost beauty is lost - thus Diomedes recognises himself as a simple worker of the highest laws, willless in impossible strength. This is work and war in its opposite sense: of the old heroes, closer to the farmers and titans than the kings and olympic gods. A youthful counterpart to Achilles who remains as a tireless servant of the law, of order and rebirth - a simple tyrant rather than a king. Where heroism borders the anonymous territory of the elements, the primordial, rather than the poetics of hubris, the birth of tragedy. For Diomedes there is no labour, and, like Nestor, war reveals itself before him, opening up to a cataclysmic world, freed of agony - or as agony only in its simplest form, as when the farmer watches over his land, where there is no contest with time.

[Anonymous No.16676599]

>>16676591
This is where work retains its beauty, where the greatest warriors achieve victory in return to their farmland, just as old men come to appreciate Hesiod and Homer in the same final hours that they may freely contest the laws of the state, or even the age itself. The Catalogue of Ships gives a voice to anonymity, it is a mirror of the Shield of Achilles. And it is through their work that the heroes turn the inheritance of law into a portal, or a weapon of the Gorgons - the endless struggle over the bodies, the ruins of armour. In modern war the bodies pile up like the names of the dogs of Actaeon, an anonymity of a whole other type, and raised to an abstract heroism, the heroism of historical time. War is most terrible where there are only human concerns, the absolute law where no laws are recognised. The tyranny of mundane violence. The Unknown Soldier goes unburied because his armour cannot be stripped, because he denies the very territory of war and must in turn be denied by it. He is freed of the cruelty of war only by making it total, denying burial to anything that reveals its war character. Corpses and limbs are only dealt with after the war, in a piling up of even more bodies. The fool on the street begins to cry out 'Medic!' before the smallest threat of violence, an absurdity, much like the officer saluting as one of his men explodes in the mud, only its violence is even worse, grows more damaging and for which there can be no law of understanding. Formless war is the law of the pacifist just as his anti-soldier music replicates the rhythm of the machinegun and the terrifying screams of a Stuka. The mass of defenses recruited to fight against war encroaches upon Ares himself, a Lebensraum of the soul which forgets the great law of Ares: he fights on both sides of the line, his bloodlust is so unquenchable that he threatens a civil war between the gods, and his exile. War is what threatens the king more than anything else, the law of dominion can only be defeated where it is drenched in blood, whether crimson or clear matters little. In this we see the modern law of war as a petrified formation, the ruin of kings before the peasant who cultivates guns. The shift occurs within the blood, it runs carmine and increases the lust. Where the king is defeated in a war of indecision, an endlessness in which he can neither defeat his enemy nor will himself back into inaction, he must be petrified in time with his enemy - and where all gaze upon this without sensing its law all is brought to ruin around it. The Ancien Regime gives way to the laws of creation, and the forward units who led the assault await the highest form of equality.

[Anonymous No.16676616]

>>16676599
War is beautiful where it stands apart from within the raining blood, at a distance even as it cuts a path through the ends of time, falling to an intimacy of violence before the highest law - the opposite movement of the sublime. In the Iliad the antiphony of heroic death as great oaks and pine trees are felled from the mountain, clashing and breaking against the limbs of giants to be. War, terrible war. The heroes did not shrink from either side, the terrible side of war simply one of the tests of its laws, as the spearpoint is tested against the shield and the smith comes to know if Hephaestus will achieve glory before the other gods, before the beautiful arts. All of the gore is of an enduring moment of peace, where there is no break in battle, only the flowing of time in its natural course towards endless completion. The mass of severed limbs returns to the earth with the softness of a rising east wind; Aphrodite sees the greatest violence in her being scratched because of this same law. One can imagine a single tree falling again and again, its movement etched into the being of the world all the more because it is petrified. The great contest of time with memory: the just image overcomes both, the forest strengthens where the sovereign tree stands behind it. Achilles is only returned to heroism through fate, behind the shield in which law has been reforged, of a higher skill than what is taught by Athena, a higher beauty than what is held by Aphrodite. The utmost law bears a violence before which no blood-price can ever be enough - thus Hector's bloodlust cannot possibly save his City of Beauty, he falls from Zeus into the dominion of the Son, cast down into Tartarus where no signs may be seen. It is on the same territory that Achilles receives the title of greatest hero, only as a curse, sheared from the earth like a boulder, his retreat from war the vision of his fate in the underworld. Even the gods see their fall in blood, clear as it is. The only terror in war is the defeat of that which is greater, whether of oneself or the utmost law; of life crawling away from the corpse, and not knowing if one has the strength which is always so cruelly demanded of us by succession.

[Anonymous No.16676634]

>yet another trad larping thread

“War is sweet to those who have no experience of it. But the experienced man trembles exceedingly in his heart at its approach.”

― Pindar

[Anonymous No.16676636]

>>16675785
Such war has never existed. All war exists with men at the top leading conscripts at the bottom.

[Anonymous No.16677095]

>>16676578
Well it's quite convenient for all you warfagots that no real wars are being waged anymore.

[Anonymous No.16677119]

essential to life as passing through your mothers vagina, but you dont want to do it every day for the rest of your life

[Anonymous No.16677120]

The Prussian general Carl von Clausewitz, his book Vom Kriege

Much(but obviously not all) of what the USMC teaches in terms of ideology/philosophy came from him

[Anonymous No.16677125]

>>16677095
War is a social struggle, it’s not just men with guns killing each other....you have definitely never put any serious thought into it nor read anything about it

[Anonymous No.16677129]

>>16677125
Maybe you've read and thought too much about it and should try cultivating some experience for once

[Anonymous No.16677134]

>>16677129
Maybe you should cultivate some knowledge on a subject before talking about it

[Anonymous No.16677194]

>>16677120
>what the USMC teaches
Safe to say it's wrong then.

[Anonymous No.16677504]

>>16675727
Julius Evola - Metaphysics of War

[Anonymous No.16677508]

>>16675727
>which philosophers write about this?
none that ever participated in a war

[Anonymous No.16677589]

>>16676599
>Formless war is the law of the pacifist just as his anti-soldier music replicates the rhythm of the machinegun and the terrifying screams of a Stuka.
kek

[Anonymous No.16677689]

>>16675745
>conflict = war
get off this board, retard

[Anonymous No.16677773]

>>16675864
In the case of war specifically, this is not an unreasonable take.

[Anonymous No.16677815]

>>16676634
>Something that occurs in every aspect of life
Do you not realize how retarded that is?

[Anonymous No.16677822]

>>16677119
You do though, -- "war is the father of all" --heraclitus

[Anonymous No.16677829]

>>16677129
Maybe emotion is to be overcome, not avoided.

[Anonymous No.16677853]

>>16677508
Sun Tzu

[Anonymous No.16677861]

>>16677689
Make an argument

[Anonymous No.16677863]

>>16677815
Yeah, gonna need better evidence for war being "natural" than 'conflict occurs in every aspect of life,' sorry.

Yes, competition exists in nature, but it doesn't follow from that that every form of war is a just extension of that competition. That's a textbook case of extrapolation. You could say that there is some similarity between two trees jostling over hundreds of years for the same share of sunlight and a 22 year old with a joystick wasting away terrorists via drone, but that doesn't mean it's a comparison most people would find compelling.

[Anonymous No.16677867]

>>16677815
You are literally in a war right now, your mind has 2 aspects, reptillian and rational.

[Anonymous No.16677888]

>>16677689
>war isn't conflict
Get off MY board

[Anonymous No.16677893]

>>16677863
Lol, you just created passive and active, again, my argument is pretty much that war is the father of all, it may take different shapes and sizes, I didn't say I'm for all of them, but everything has a duality to it, which is born for conflict.

[Anonymous No.16677898]

>>16677888
you don't even read nigger

[Anonymous No.16677899]

>>16677863
additionally, sex is a natural part of life, but every civilization that has ever has existed has created some kind of code to regulate the proper practice of it. Some communities or professions even hold up celibacy as an ideal to be emulated. Lots of stuff can be natural without it necessarily following that every single expression of that thing should be deemed 'moral' or even 'unavoidable.'

You know what's natural? Leaving anyone with disabilities or abnormalities to fend for themselves in the wilderness. I'm glad human civilization has found a way to do away with that seemingly intractable law of nature without and major consequences.

[Anonymous No.16677907]

>>16677893
Calling shit natural is the mark of a retard. Seriously, grow the fuck up. There are multiple ways to do this, but maybe read a little more, since you are on /lit/.

[Anonymous No.16677909]

>ITT: retards are in conflict with OP over whether conflict is natural or not

[Anonymous No.16677917]

>>16677898
No, you don't even read. Go back where you came from tourist
>>>/pol/

[Anonymous No.16677918]

>>16677909
wow damn, you really are smart

[Anonymous No.16677937]

>>16677918
Thanks, it just seems absurd to me how these chud tourists don't see the irony

[Anonymous No.16677964]

>>16677907
Artificial things won't last, this argument itself is pointless if one were shank one of us, he would win, and if he were caught by law, the only measurement keeping his fire dim, would be such a large quantity of violence, creating passivity, another imbalance.

[Anonymous No.16677965]

>>16675745
animals don’t go to war lol, nothing on the scale that humans do anyways. i think gangs fighting is more similar to animal groups fighting

[Anonymous No.16677979]

>>16677893
Passive and active what? I don't give a shit whether or not war or conflict or however you wanna frame x and y have oppositional interests is a 'natural law.' What I am saying is that so-called 'natural laws' are not good enough moral justifications for civilizations to go to war. They can go to war, they often do go to war, but that doesn't mean people can't say that certain kinds of war or even all war is morally wrong.

[Anonymous No.16677981]

>>16677965
That's like comparing an orchestra to a piano, you fucking midwit.

[Anonymous No.16677996]

>>16677979
They do though, BTFO'd when it happens to you, like it is happening now between us, just on the big screen, if this were in person, and one of us werw to pull out a gun, he would win.

[Anonymous No.16678007]

>>16677965
>animals don’t go to war lol,
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War

[Anonymous No.16678013]

War must never be seen as having any purpose in itself but should be seen as a political instrument: "War is not merely a political act, but a real political instrument, a continuation of the political process, an application by other means."

[Anonymous No.16678017]

[Anonymous No.16678018]

>>16678013
The military objectives in war that support one's political objectives fall into two broad types: "war to achieve limited aims" and war to "disarm" the enemy: "to render [him] politically helpless or militarily impotent."

[Anonymous No.16678030]

>>16678018
All else being equal, the course of war will tend to favor the party with the stronger emotional and political motivations, especially the defender.

[Anonymous No.16678046]

>>16677996
I honestly have no clue at this point what you're saying beyond 'might = right.' What are you reading to justify this? I'd rather argue against that than read hypotheticals about if one of us had a gun

[Anonymous No.16678051]

>>16678030
The essence of war is a violent clash between two hostile, independent and irreconcilable wills, each trying to impose itself on the other. Thus, the object of war is to impose our will on our enemy.

It exists in nature, you perform war every time you get in an argument

[Anonymous No.16678073]

>>16678051
Your argument is wholly semantic. If you're asking for books that have the word war in them a lot, I suggest Tom Clancy. If you'd like to read something that might challenge your worldview, I'd suggest literally anything else

[Anonymous No.16678077]

>>16675727
>natural part of the human essence
Argumentative fallacy: the thread.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeal_to_nature

[Anonymous No.16678083]

>>16678073
>DURRRRR U ASKED FOR BOOKS THAT SUPPORT A VIEW THAT I DONT SUPPORT SO INSTEAD OF NOT REPLYING IM GOING TO GIVE YOU BAD RECOMMENDATIONS
Absolute and unequivocal cope. Simply embarassing.

[Anonymous No.16678089]

>>16675746
>>16675766
>>16675785
Okay but how do you fight it? Can you give me a detailed description of how this practice that you are describing in deliberately vague terms plays out in any scenario?

[Anonymous No.16678091]

>>16678051
We're having a 'war' right now over whether you're a huge faggot. We also could be said to be babbling mindlessly with no real aims to ward off thinking about the inevitable conclusion of all life in death. This thread is about framing and OP sperging out about any framing that doesn't include the word 'war.'

[Anonymous No.16678092]

>>16678073
It’s from the original US Marine Corps' basic military philosophical manual, known as ‘warfighting’

And I believe they got that particular quote from an 1800s German

Come at me

[Anonymous No.16678093]

>>16678077
>doesn't even understand the fallacy

[Anonymous No.16678102]

>>16675833
>goes to the gym because a woman tells him he's thin
>gay
>offs himself
>his gay lover can't even decapitate him properly
Truly a monument to the cringe and lack of any sense of reality of trad LARPers everywhere

[Anonymous No.16678103]

>>16678089
"war" belongs fundamentally to the social realm, rather than the realms of art or science
"strategy" belongs primarily to the realm of art
"tactics" belongs primarily to the realm of science

[Anonymous No.16678106]

>>16675733
Stasis in pleasure is impossible, as an individual cannot sustain satisfaction indefinitely (maybe with the exception of a select few). Therefore if pleasure is to be a part of life, then an increase in pleasurable objects must be achieved. The most assured way of solving this is by obtaining the pleasurable objects from far away lands, which needs either trade or conquest.

If the city obtains its pleasure from trade, then misunderstandings and selfishness are sure to arise, leading to war.

[Anonymous No.16678113]

>>16678103
Based

[Anonymous No.16678118]

>>16678092
>war is imposing your will
>never won a war
>now kneels before former slaves
Manifest Destiny

[Anonymous No.16678120]

>>16678103
Yes but what do you do

[Anonymous No.16678159]

>>16678092
Yeah, they got it from an 1800s German trying to argue the retarded point that war is natural because conflict is natural and that's a retarded semantic argument. I can dress up a lot of basic facets of human life with fancy prose. I can call eating 'an existential act of will wherein I war against the damned state of not having food in my belly' and that doesn't make it war.
I fundamentally disagree with the stated argument of this thread that war is part of the human essence and want to call out every in this thread that derives from that stupid reasoning. The only thing I agree with in all of this is that conflict is a natural part of human existence. Everything that goes beyond that is semantic posturing.

You ROTC? Cause you post like it

[Anonymous No.16678162]

>>16678089
>can you break it down for my modern autistic fundamentally damaged mind why some people who lived in a world that let them fully express the deepest parts of their nature through the caste system would allow warriors to become fully involved with their deep life experience in a way the Modern Zog-bot could not.

[Anonymous No.16678168]

>>16675727
OP to answer you're question, early Ernst Junger is somewhat up this alley. Evola's Metaphysics of War and Mishima's Patriotism are as well.

[Anonymous No.16678176]

>>16675727
An obvious one is the art of war.

[Anonymous No.16678183]

>>16675777
The fact that you’re apathetic is only the failure of the state to effectively utilize propaganda

[Anonymous No.16678204]

>>16678168
>early Ernst Junger
>implying there's a late and early Junger

[Anonymous No.16678218]

>>16678159
View war in its ability to effect change

[Anonymous No.16678220]

>>16678183
Collective self-interest is its own propaganda, trying to convince people to work towards the opposite is obviously a task doomed to failure. The American state will continue to sink in ability because it has opted for the latter over the former.

[Anonymous No.16678228]

>>16678162
>modern autistic fundamentally damaged mind
ad hominem, not an argument
>deepest parts of their nature
fallacy of appealing to nature
>through the caste system
at best an ad hoc creation. Social stratification exists, yes, but has existed in such various forms throughout human history that saying 'caste' and 'Warrior' is about as descriptive as saying color is blue and food is apple

Make an argument that doesn't require Traditionalist LARPing. Next time you think about making a thread, try breaking down why some people who want to talk about literature don't want 15+ threads a day that ultimately result in 'read more Evola.'

[Anonymous No.16678239]

>>16678204
Yes theres really three fairly distinct portions in his intellectual development. The early Ernst Junger of the inter-war period, the disillusioned Junger of the Nazi era, and the resigned Junger of the post-war.

[Anonymous No.16678250]

>>16678218
View your ass as a receptacle of dicks

[Anonymous No.16678266]

>>16678239
Cringe.

[Anonymous No.16678288]

>>16678239
Based.

[Anonymous No.16678325]

>>16678228
>>16678228
>doesn't know what an ad hominem is
>doesn't understand what makes the appeal to nature fallacy fallacious
>word salad and seething
MIDWIT ALERT MIDWIT ALERT WE'VE GOT A MIDWIT HERE WOOO WOOO WOOO MIDWIT ALERT HIDE YOUR FUNKOPOPS WE'VE GOT A MIDWIT WOOO WOOO WOOO MIDWIT ALERT MIDWIT ALERT

[Anonymous No.16678395]

>>16678239
Not really true, and banal. And what does it have to do with early Junger discussing war but not late Junger? Some of his most insightful work on war, and maybe his masterpiece, comes from his 'blue period' (which again is a superficial reading of a brilliant thinker, essentially you are boxing an anti-humanist thinker into humanist terms and its conception of intellectualism/movements, while, it seems, supposing yourself to be antihumanist. He thought like an ancient, so putting him in these simpllistic terms, or an enlightenment morphology, is to completely misunderstand him.).

[Anonymous No.16678421]

>>16678046
You provided no argument though, so stfu

[Anonymous No.16678425]

Every belief that makes a duty of humility — that inspires a people with “moral” courage only, enervates their fiber, corrupts their spirit, and prepares them first for thralldom and then for — throttling. It is not possible to conceive of Grand Life without incessant rivalry, perpetual warfare and the implacable hunting of man by man. Terror, torture, agony and the wholesale destruction of feeble and worn out types, must mark in future, as in the past, every step forward, or backward in evolution, homo-culture and racial displacement. The soil of every nation is an arena, a stamping ground, where only the most vigorous ANIMALS may hope to hold their own. What is all history but the epic of a colossal campaign, the final Armageddon of which is never likely to be fought, because, when men cease to fight — they cease to be — Men. This old earth is strewn to the very mountain-tops with the fleshless skulls and rain bleached bones of perished combatants in countless myriads. Every square foot, every inch, of soil contains its — man.


The evolution (or de-evolution) of mankind demands the perpetual transfiguration of one man into another, continuous re-incarnation, eternal re-birth and re-construction. Scientifically considered, the “resurrection of the dead” is not an illusion. Every living organism is formed from the decomposed essence of pre-existent organisms. The “man” of to-day is actually built out of the grave-mould of his prototypes; perhaps of ages long forgotten. Thus, without death there could be no birth-material; and without conflict, fierce and deadly, there could be no surpassing.

Man’s anatomy, external and internal; his eyes, his teeth, his muscles, his blood, his viscera, his brain, his vertebra; all speak of fighting, passion, aggressiveness, violence, and prideful egoism. Even the component elements of a human body are themselves in a constant state of internecine warfare. Our bony framework and pulsating tissues, are vast campaigning grounds; whereon microscopical animal-culæ in countless myriads, fight out their ephemeral lives, as we ourselves do — with tooth and claw. When one swarm of microbes, germs, or spores, conquer (in the struggle for sustenance) disease, or death supervenes to us, as the case may be. When rival hosts vanquish, then our flesh, nerves, bones, and blood become THEIR happy hunting grounds, and our health returns — at least until the bacilli-battalions have finally eaten us out: or they have been, themselves, conquered and exterminated by fiercer swarms. It is not improbable that this earth itself is a living breathing organism and that the Tribes of Man are microbes and bloodsucking vermin (on its outer cuticle) imagining themselves “the whole thing.” Just as itch-creating parasites burrow into our own hide, so (in our turn) we may be unpleasant parasites, burrowing in the hide of some nobler and grander Being.

[Anonymous No.16678428]

>>16678077
You didnt even get it

[Anonymous No.16678443]

>>16675727
War is the holiest activity of men

[Anonymous No.16678482]

>>16678250
A dick in my ass is only beneficial insofar as it addresses some need. Humans require change, war is just one of the many means to that end.

[Anonymous No.16678483]

>>16678228
You are literally arguing against an essence in which you are involved in, retard, only difference is that you only access the most passive form of it, and since nature is the essence of all, and artificial things are just repurposed nature, war is inevitable, so long as things are.

[Anonymous No.16678496]

>>16678425
Ragnar fagbeard sucks cock, READ HERACLITUS, READ BLOOD MERIDIAN.

[Anonymous No.16678503]

>>16678425
Cringe. These are the types who get killed on the first day, turn good men into meat shields or get injured while mounting their horse.

[Anonymous No.16678518]

>>16678443
>This is the nature of war, whose stake is at once the game and the authority and the justification. Seen so, war is the truest form of divination. It is the testing of one's will and the will of another within that larger will which because it binds them is therefore forced to select. War is the ultimate game because war is at last a forcing of the unity of existence.War is god

[Anonymous No.16678726]

>>16678159
> trying to argue the retarded point that war is natural because conflict is natural and that's a retarded semantic argument.

That is not what he says, there are 10 volumes based on his manuscripts and he never lived long enough to finish the works

I mention there are 10 books because we can’t begin to scratch the surface of his theories in 4000 characters or whatever the limit is on this

You’re a dumb faggot and don’t know what you’re talking about.

[Anonymous No.16678744]

>>16678726
And for OP, besides Clausewitz there’s Antoine-Henri Jomini from the 19th century, B. H. Liddell Hart from the mid-20th century, Martin van Creveld and John Keegan

But I would read clause because It is one of the most important treatises on political-military analysis and strategy ever written, and remains both controversial and influential on strategic thinking.

Although controversial for reasons that have yet to be named itt

[Anonymous No.16678767]

>>16678503
Source:my ass

[Anonymous No.16678895]

>>16678767
>Blow it out your ass
Based.

[Anonymous No.16679704]

>>16678767
>t. fell off horse

[Anonymous No.16680068]

>>16678228
>NOOOOOOO YOU HAVE TO DISTINGUISH THE ANSWER TO MY QUESTION FROM EVERYTHING HUMANITY HAS EVER KNOWN!!! IF IT'S WISDOM OLDER THAN 100 YEARS IT'S FALSE AND DEBOOOONKED!!!

Kys fucking dumbass

[Anonymous No.16680232]

>>16675727
Hesiod.

[Anonymous No.16680302]

>>16677965
If animals were as smart as us, they would go to war on our scale.

[Anonymous No.16680638]

>>16675752
Just joining the military right now is not going to do anything for these people, they need to join infantry at the bare minimum, if they are not faggots, then join Rangers/SEALS/Special Forces etc.. and actually see combat.

[Anonymous No.16680869]

>>16680638
>american
>seeing combat

[Anonymous No.16682451]

>>16675727
What is it good for?

[Anonymous No.16682513]

St petersburg dialogue by de Maistre had a section on this.
He noted that when our soldiers go to war with other innocent soldiers - - being pawns of their state, we glorify it and support it
Yet, the executioner who punishes unjust criminals and by virtue maintains law and order is disdained and frowned upon
The fact that such an irrational capacity for war to awaken men in his passions, and that war has invariably existed amongst all civilisations of all times led him to conclude that war was "divine"

[Anonymous No.16682558]

>>16675727
Existence precedes essence

[Anonymous No.16682571]

>>16675727
>Op asks for pro-war philosophy
>thread full of people giving their shoe size IQ opinions
here's one writer

[Anonymous No.16683544]

>>16677907
You fucking retard, he is right. War is natural no matter how you define nature. We know chimps wage war.

[Anonymous No.16683586]

God, I hope Americans will get to experience an actual war in the country's history before it inevitably collapses just so they can finally shut up about it.

[Anonymous No.16683635]

>>16675727
>natural
>essence
How?

[Anonymous No.16684312]

>>16676591
What is this from?

[Anonymous No.16684322]

>>16675733
How is forming hierarchies and orchestrating long-term plans with the purpose of releasing one's power onto nature not part of humanity? Especially considering we have a long history of repeatedly doing this.

[Anonymous No.16684324]

>>16682571
stop postin this fucking cringey retard. its so obvious a bunch of autistic teenagers saw this EPIC BASED pic posted here a while ago, saved it on their computer, and now spam it every other day to pretend like they read

[Anonymous No.16685823]

>>16675727
The pro-war philosophy became nonsense with the atomic age

[Jesus No.16685837]

>>16675727
yep. war never ends. peace is only on TV, castrated reality.

[Anonymous No.16686838]

>>16675777
fucking lmao. war has always been for the benefit of the rich and powerful to the detriment of the lower classes.

[Anonymous No.16687015]

>>16675825
You must be fun at parties

[Anonymous No.16687365]

>>16675727
Duh, the true war is in your mind.

[Anonymous No.16687369]

>>16675746
>thinking this is witty

[Anonymous No.16687375]

>>16675825
>It replaces the great life and death trial of battle and bloodshed of the warrior for a merely inconsequential simulation of the otherwise deep physcial forces of battle in an athlete transmuted to spectacle for the plebian classes

The only sport this nerd partakes in is wanking and cooming.

[Anonymous No.16687550]

>>16675745
this is literal sophistry. hurdur things change and exchange by nature more fundamental than a species that means humans specifically are essentially warmongering. uh no how bout you shut the fuck up you mouthbreather. war does not mean conflict it has specific meaning to each culture and political entity. it would be interesting to see what is consistent to but instead we get this nonsense. it is not the same as some vague principle not even worthy of the word conflict.

[Anonymous No.16687590]

>>16687365
wrong. you have to go deeper. the real war is actually in your scrotum. between your left and right nut.

[Anonymous No.16688178]

>>16675727
What was the source of this idea that war is in our nature? I don’t think that there’s a switch that needs to be turned on in men’s minds to make them go, “Oh this is what I want to be when I grow up. I want to go to war.” But I do think that there is a fascination that men have with the battlefield, and for the majority of it men have gone to war. So there is a fascination. But what I would say is, for a huge amount of time it has not been a very successful fascination.

[Anonymous No.16688527]

You might find the evolution of the concept of "just war" in theology interesting OP, from Aquinas to the School of Salamanca and beyond.

[Anonymous No.16688818]

>>16676557
He was just a man afterall

[Jesus No.16689579]

there's no war, just keep taking meds.

[Anonymous No.16689628]

>>16676634
Very good. However...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Churchill#cite_ref-Smith_2005_12-4

[Anonymous No.16689629]

Read Plato

[Anonymous No.16689885]

>>16682451
That question excludes it from being a baseline act, that question reduces it to something that has to be done, and not something that happens because it has to.

[Anonymous No.16689887]

>>16682558
Essence waited for existence.

[Anonymous No.16689889]

>>16683635
>So lazy, he didn't even read the thread
Go back.

[Anonymous No.16689890]

>>16675733
>How?
NOW!

[Anonymous No.16689892]

>>16685823
Completely agree.

[Anonymous No.16689896]

>>16687550
>No argument

[Anonymous No.16689902]

>>16688178
War was a festive occasion here in germany pre ww1

[Anonymous No.16689916]

>>16675727
We got taught in school that even WW1 soldiers were happy about war

[Anonymous No.16690075]

>>16689916
yes, they were happy going in to war, because they were misled by propaganda
they weren't so happy when the realities of war struck

[Anonymous No.16690452]

>>16690075
Not true. Read before posting.

[Anonymous No.16690475]

>>16690452
>umm it's not true because there were these very few people who enjoyed it

[Anonymous No.16690485]

>>16690452
Yes it is true you dumb fuck. Imagine spending months in those dirty smelly trenches infested with rats and disease while shells fly over your head constantly.

[Anonymous No.16690487]

>>16690475
It was pretty common for soldiers to say it was a good time, even the best time of their lives. Look up "morale".

[Anonymous No.16690491]

>>16690485
>those soldiers were antinatalist vrgins just like me
Sure thing faggot.
>>16689628

[Anonymous No.16690589]

>>16675727
This is laughably bourgeoise

[Anonymous No.16691676]

[Anonymous No.16692380]

>>16690075
Holy fuck youre retarded, during the entire century before that, war was still a festive occasion

[Anonymous No.16692434]

>>16692380
that was before modern artillery

[Anonymous No.16693575]

>>16692434
>>16692380
>>16675727

the first world war put an end to that. also, you are missing the point. this view of war as an adventure was 1 a view that only the aristocrats held and 2 just a cultural echo, (see Plato's Cave) and even this misses the nuance, (see The Iliad). and even when common people viewed war almost like an Arthurian legend, (at least in the anglosphere) it was not this joyous occasion to celebrate. and this view was held by people for like 50 years before the first world war when the European countries weren't really fighting each other, but hopelessly outmatched natives. and even when the European fought each other it was very short and relatively bloodless (see Astro/Franco-Prussian wars) and even then works of art were made of how terrible and tragic the wars were, and don't forget the Crimean War shocked the English public with its brutality.

war isn't the adventure it is in fairy tales. it never was. it was always been a tragic, horrid and messy affair. and while the grand narrative of competition between peoples is compelling it just goes to show that you can salvage something out of anything. It is not something you want taken out of your history books and video games and put into your 21st-century existence. I mean it's almost criminal how quickly and easily you can end a life with modern technology, there's no Grandeur or honour in modern war. I mean we build the terrible weapons with the express intent of not having use them.

I also urge you to read the accounts of the eastern front during the second world war, that will give you the best glimpse at the spirt of true war.

[Anonymous No.16693602]

>>16693575
I also find it kind of annoying that your view of war is probably taken from sanitized depictions in video games and philosophers that were taken completely out of context and had their meaning changed.

also, look at history, those who put war on a pedestal lost to the hedonistic and pacifistic.

[Anonymous No.16693791]

>>16678106
war is unsustainable as well. it's just a matter of choosing which side you support - war or peace.

[Jesus No.16694750]

fucking hippies in moms basement on meds, watching opium for the masses, Hollywood and TV, think the war has ended in 1945. war on terror, drugs, health care is really not a war and not about them. just wear mask dude.

[Anonymous No.16694948]

>>16693791
You didn't read the thread, huh?

[Anonymous No.16695498]

>>16675733
Human nature is a war of all against all