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/lit/ - Literature

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16657115 No.16657115 [Reply] [Original]

Is this worth reading if I’m already aware that the MSM is biased in favor of the dominant elite?

>> No.16657139

>>16657115
It's outdated. It needs a serious update to account for big tech and digital media.

>> No.16657150

>>16657115
You only "know" it the same way christians "know" that abortionist heathens will burn forever in hell. Don't assume that you're right just because it feels like you're on the side that's fighting evil, even if you're more than likely correct. Also, I should read that soon, I have too much time on my hands

>> No.16657157

>>16657150
That's not a very good analogy.

>> No.16657162

Yes because it goes into examples and particular methods/mechanisms. Although I agree with the other poster that it could use a serious update.

>> No.16657165

>>16657157
Well I know it is

>> No.16657184

>>16657139
>>16657162
The update is Hate, Inc. by Matt Taibbi.

>> No.16657612

>>16657184
Not really. It's a great journalistic book, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't make any serious propositions in media theory.

>> No.16657654 [DELETED] 
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16657654

>>16657115
>dominant elite
watch how fast the mods delete this

>> No.16657666 [DELETED] 
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16657666

>>16657654

>> No.16657698 [DELETED] 
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16657698

>>16657666
>666

>> No.16657700

It gives some better insight into mechanisms used. You could also just watch the documentary if you don't want to read. It's roughly 3 hours long.

>> No.16657704 [DELETED] 

>It’s du juuuzzz
Someone post the Irish one.

>> No.16657711 [DELETED] 

>>16657654
>>16657666
wow, those joos seem pretty based

>> No.16657714 [DELETED] 

>>16657704
Yea it’s the kikes and the micks and sometimes the wops
What’s so hard to get about it you dense hole

>> No.16657755 [DELETED] 

>>16657714
It’s the people with money.
And oh wow, some of them are jewish too. So what? You want a stop to this corrupt degeneration? Keeping money out of jewish hands, killing them all, this isn’t going to do shit

>> No.16657768 [DELETED] 

>>16657755
Mick hands etcetera etcetera

>> No.16657883 [DELETED] 

>>16657755
shut the fuck up tripfag

>> No.16658466

>>16657115
chomsky is a joke

>> No.16658764

>>16657139
I like this idea for a thread better. What would be the update to Manufacturing Consent?

>> No.16658786

the introduction regarding the various filters of access to major media is interesting but the case studies that follow probably won't enlighten you too much, and like other anon said it is extremely outdated in today's age

maybe just get a pdf and read about the filters though.

>> No.16658791

>>16657115
Yes, still worth the read because the techniques and dynamics it describes are still in use, but on an even larger and more intricate scale. Literally a life-changing book if you have an interest in 20th century history and politics.

>> No.16658938

>>16657139
The edition discussed by OP includes a very good introductory essay by Chomsky that discusses the even more advanced convergence of the media corporations, advertising factors, and the affect of big tech and digital media.

>> No.16659021

Honestly Marcuse explains media propaganda better. He’d know. He’s not just a spokesman he’s a member.

>> No.16659235

>>16658764
I've yet to read it, but given the age I'd imagine it doesn't address biased fact checks or biased search results as much as we'd do now.
And that it doesn't deal with social media platforms that are meant to be open in their legal claims that cultivate the content that is desired all the same. Doing so quietly and without comment in most cases.
Or the community based censorship that comes in online. Where everyone is a Gestapo.

>> No.16659785
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16659785

>>16659235
>biased fact checks
>Or the community based censorship that comes in online
Why do nazis only pretend to read and study history? It's way more work than actually reading

>> No.16659797

>>16657115
‘Inventing Reality’ by Parenti is way better

>> No.16659889

Unless you want some specific case studies of the lying press in action circa 30-50 years ago, I would say no.

>> No.16659914

>>16658764
The Age of Surveillance Capitalism seems like a step in the right direction.

>> No.16659922

>>16659785
Well the bias comes in in terms of what gets considered lies, and what gets passed over.
Or when some media is tagged negatively while others are allowed free.
This is intenisfied in a way that it never existed before with things like Twitter's tagging of articles or posts.

The community policing is very different in the modern day compared to its past. The centralization of discourse has empowered it and allowed for it to be more meaningful.
Where it did exist in authoritarian places in the past, that was backed by government enforcement and instigation. Now its something that people search out and enjoy.

Don't call me a Nazi either. I'm critiquing this all from a near socialist prospective.

>> No.16660023

>>16659922
Calling a lie a lie isn't bias, it's fact checking. It's intensified because the lies have intensified to the point where private companies have to pick up the slack where government failed. Also, I'll call a fucking Nazi a Nazi. Quit pretending like you know anything about what you're talking about, if you did, you'd be citing sources and quoting passages instead of jerking off to the idea of being seen as an intellectual by surrounding yourself with people you hold high esteem for, hoping some of their learnedness rubs off on your childish and mislead worldviews, you fascist sympathizer in the making.

>> No.16660035

>>16657115
>I’m already aware that the MSM is biased in favor of the dominant elite?
You're going to need to read a lot more than this if you seriously think this is what the book is going to tell you.

>> No.16660037

>>16657115
I have a hard time with memory, remind why this book felt really forced? I love it tho

>> No.16660046

>>16659922
>Now its something that people search out and enjoy.
Let me guess, you believe in "cancel culture" but you can't point out a specific example of anyone being cancelled who in fact did nothing wrong.

>> No.16660134

>>16660023
Not him but I am actually, in good faith, asking what part of what he said implies he's a nazi. I feel like you're going to point out that nazis get censored but lots of people (including many on the left) do so complaining about censorship does not, in and of itself, speak to nazi sympathies.
> cite examples of non-nazis getting censored
I'll admit I don't have an links but I know groups expressing sympathy for left-wing parties in south america tend to get banned, of course r/chapotraphouse and r/cumtown got banned from reddit, and on a mainstream level American third parties, especially left-wing ones such as the Socialists and Greens, are pretty much totally deprived of media coverage (I am aware that they literally can get on the ballot and get interviews, etc., the debate rules were literally changed in the 90s to make it near-impossible for their candidates to get into presidential debates and you'd think they would at least be given something like a town hall).

>> No.16660188

>>16660134
He's dog whistling by crying how twitter is flagging certain posts as misleading and taking down and even banning other posts that are out and out dangerous and life-threatening lies. He's trying to rationalize the cognitive dissonance of having falsified beliefs by making sweeping overtures of uncited claims that centralized discourse means people can effectively, meaningfully, and enjoy community policing, despite literally everyone that has ever written on the subject ever saying it's having a polarizing effect instead.

tldr: Nazi retards need to learn to read a fucking book

>> No.16660230

>>16660023
>calling people nazi at the drop of a hat
>also cries about how unfair everyone is to twitter
Yep, it's pottery.

>> No.16660269

>>16660230
Every conservative and republican that doesn't have fascist sentiments agrees that the flagged and banned posts were going way too far. You can disagree on the effectiveness on certain policies, but saying the boogieman is out to get you because someone said "don't listen to this retard, he's going to get a lot of people killed" when it directly contradicts the words of your chosen authority figure and triggers your subservient cow-towing reflexes is how fascism gets going.

Also, nice ceramicist posting

>> No.16660276

>>16660269
Censoring nazis doesn't make them wrong sweetheart.

>> No.16660279

>>16660276
> Fact checking is censoring

>> No.16660288

>>16660279
>'hate speech' censorship = fact checking
4chan should delete your post for fact checking purposes This is exactly why you're so despicable and revolting to anyone with a shred of honesty, because you make arguments in bad faith from the very start. Everyone, EVERYONE, knows that internet censorship goes way beyond 'fact checking'.

>> No.16660309

>>16660288
Do you have a single fact to back that up?
>inb4 "everything"

>> No.16660313

>>16660023
Lies have not intensified. Corporations are just at the point where they can make a gambit to become arbiters of true and false.
They realize that in the current political zeitgeist that neoliberally minded types are willing to allow corporate power to grow in that way due to political disputes - its opportunism.
And from there how long until other things get fact-checked? When someone says, "the 1% are sucking the resources from the rest of us and using political corruption to do it", is that true or not? When someone starts spilling info about the alleged behind the scenes politicking at Twitter or Facebook, is that truth or falsehood. These companies are only interested in controlling discourse in a way that protects their capital and power.

>> No.16660316

>>16660288
> EVERYONE knows
[citation required]
Oh, sorry, you were only pretending to be retarded by proving yourself and your arguments wrong. Remember to like and subscribe, also, don't forget to continue polarizing the debate to stifle reasoned arguments into gotchas and zingers so that all speak by virtue is censored

>> No.16660324

>>16660309
How about the entire right-wing getting scrubbed off youtube lmfao what are you talking about dude

>> No.16660327

>>16660309
Bruh, everyone knows that the leaks about the Hunter Biden debacle were censored on twitter and facebook at first. Not because it was unfounded, but because it hurt the wrong people.
Who will fact check the fact checkers?

>> No.16660334

>>16660316
https://www.theverge.com/2019/9/3/20845071/youtube-hateful-content-policies-channels-comments-videos-susan-wojcicki
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-49523239

Why do you think the website bitchute.com even exists

>> No.16660337

>>16660324
>everything!
>>16660327
>everyone!

Too predictable. You people can't even form a coherent argument, your brains have been completely fried from overstimulation.

>> No.16660347

>>16660309
From Google deciding to drop certain sites from its search engines, Infinity-chan for one.
To platforms deciding to totally ban certain individuals for expressed beliefs, ie crackpots like Alex Jones.
And sites going through and culling discussion areas dedicated to certain political beliefs like Nazis/violent communists getting their subforums deleted regularly for just expressed opinions.
Or owners going through and erasing info about content they don't want on air as with that Hunter Biden nonsense.

>> No.16660349

>>16660337
see >>16660334
FIVE HUNDRED MILLION comments deleted and that's in an article from last year.
Do you understand that this is the largest act of censorship to be committed in human history?
You live in an alternative, constructed reality.

>> No.16660354

>>16660337
So because I said "everyone" you're going to ignore the example that I gave?
Is that some kind of trigger word for you? Whatever retarded answer you have, I'm out. I won't argue with a brick.

>> No.16660363

>>16660046
Chris Pratt.

>> No.16660387

>>16660313
Hey, retard, remember when we had something called investigative journalism? How about the panama papers, remember what happened to that? No one is arguing that twitter and facebook should be "arbiters of true and false", its the fact that they always have been the arbiters, and they've arbited that false should have just as much say, even more so, than truth. It's only with the recent fact checking and flagging where there is some semblance to correct the course and allow actual freedom of speech

>>16660349
I'll have to find the scientific papers later, but studies show that most people scroll down to the comments before reading the article, influencing their opinions and even making readers misremember or misread key details. Most comments were left by a very very tiny portion of readers, often the most hateful and troll posting types.

It's not censorship if the white noise adds to the misinformation and prevents others from saying anything other than knee jerk reactionary and incendiary language

>> No.16660395

>>16657115
>>16657139
>>16658764

Noam Chomsky was fine for writing Manufacturing Consent, back then, but I could not trust him to put something like that, or an updated version out now, as he is too partial to politics, nowadays, rather than somewhat detached as he was, years ago.

>> No.16660411

>>16660395
I don't know how you did it, but you managed to post the most retarded thing in this thread. Congrats.

>> No.16660421

>>16660387
>most people scroll down to the comments before reading the article
That's because they don't trust the article and they want to see criticism of the article, because the media is an institution of social and informational control.
>It's not censorship if the white noise adds to the misinformation and prevents others from saying anything other than knee jerk reactionary and incendiary language
Yes it is you fucking idiot. It is censorship and it is oppression. God I hope you're a jew because that is the only way this level of talmudic reasoning is in anyway justified.

>> No.16660423

>>16660421
That's right kiddo, it's all da joos fault

>> No.16660427

>>16660387
The Panama Papers died because of disinterest among the general population, and that it wasn't interesting to the media as it was bipartisan.
However, there is a difference between that, which is just ignored into non-existence, and a company coming in and calling something true or false of its own volition, knowing that few will actually fact check that. Or just mentioning the source bias of some info, but not others, thereby playing into mania and hysteria.
Investigative journalism never existed in a good way. Journalism has always been the home of histrionic freaks and egoists. But that doesn't mean that you should discount it.

Finally, as I said before, while you can't control how info is gathered, you can moderate its dissemination to help strip as much bias as is possible. And what Twitter/Facebook/whatever are doing, is the opposite of that. They are becoming arbiters of truth after the fact.
This is very different than a news company throwing away a story they don't like. Especially that while someone can always go to a different news company if need be, they can't go post their info elsewhere to the same audience one the big companies make you a persona non grata.

>> No.16660434

>>16660423
wait until you find out what race all evil capitalists are anon. hell, the word "capitalist" is practically an anti-semitic dog whistle!

>> No.16660442

>>16660434
Chinese right now.
Antisemitism is the socialism of idiots.

>> No.16660445

>>16660421
> They want someone else to tell them how to think and what to feel because they don't trust themselves to be able to think for themselves
Wow, way to take the jew's side in your own fight

>>16660427
Can you stop pretending like you've ever read a book and shut the fuck up? Please? It wasn't disintrest, there was INTENSE FUCKING INTEREST. Have you read the papers yourself? The papers died because the story was killed. It was killed because the spooky boogiemen that you fear, the "arbiters of truth and false" actually exist, and they managed to convince you that letting crock pot conspiracy theories injected by 3rd party agitators and hostile state actors run rampant is a sign of a healthy democracy, and anything that tries to keep that in check is tyranny. Protip retard: that guy trying to tell you not to by a bridge? Yeah, you might want to listen to him

>> No.16660452

>>16660427
I think we can all agree that if someone is getting their news from Twitter/Facebook then there is a serious problem with accuracy, regardless of personal beliefs. Also, I just think it's funny that for as long as humans have existed the "news" (simplified) has always been controlled by a select few elites, and now that we have more open communication than ever before on Earth censorship/propaganda has somehow become the go-to excuse when someone sees something they disagree with.

>> No.16660454

>>16660442
Oh right how could we forget that the Chinese own Viacom and Disney and Citibank.

>> No.16660464

>>16660445
>Wow, way to take the jew's side in your own fight
You can't just make your own opinion in a total information vacuum, what the fuck are you talking about?

>> No.16660480

>>16660445
Yes I read the papers.
No one cared. There were more interesting things for people to do that wallow in the reality that tjere was proof that what everyone that was anti-elite said was true was actually true all along, and that you couldn't do anything about it.
It sucked to read and the complete inability to affect it drove people away. There is only so much you can do with sad apathy.

A good democracy is one that allows every retard their time in the sun to speak. It is not the State's or the aggregates of capital's job to fact check things. That is on the individuals taking in information.
Its not on the powers that be to tell us what is right and wrong in a way that is convenient to them.
It is on us to take from them as much power as is possible.

>> No.16660486

>>16660454
No they just control the real important things. Like raw production, and technology manufacture.
And mass capital. The Chinese are able to weaponize mass capital greater than any other group on the planet right now.
Hell, Disney has bent over backwards to cater to the Chinese they are so powerful.

>> No.16660490

>>16660480
Just accept that this person has motivated reasoning and isn't arguing in good faith already. Obviously he has some partisan stake in supporting the mass censorship of the right-wing.

>> No.16660497

>>16660452
Its retarded to go to a site like that for all your news, I agree.
But that doesn't change the reality that such behavior is common and growing even more.

>> No.16660510

>>16660497
So then the problem is not really censorship, but rather retards getting more and more retarded.

>> No.16660519

>>16660510
that's retarded

>> No.16660545

>>16660519
Still voting *insert retard here*

>> No.16660572

>>16660510
No, that such info is censored heavily is the problem.
The issue with getting info from socmedia is that it is based on what the community wants to see, in a perfect world. The issue is that eventually some group will come to dominate the discourse.
That such sites are also hotbeds of corporate censorship is entirely different. And right now is the main issue.

>> No.16660581

>>16660572
I wish it were censored so I wouldn't have to read this retarded shit everywhere

>> No.16660589

>>16660581
>baww i want my gay jewish neoliberal circlejerk
why do you even come to 4chan

>> No.16660598

>>16660581
I wish I lived in a world where aggregated capital didn't set itself up as the ruler of what is allowed to be said. We can't all get what we want.

>> No.16660926

>>16660023
Journalism is essentially humanistic since only secular humanists have created the job of journalist and they love the idea of a journalist as the gatekeeper of secular humanism by denouncing some Human rights violations, political scandals and enlightening the plebs, because journalists like any cockroach humanist cling to their idea that they are the gatekeepers of the truths.

>> No.16661019

>>16660395
He was probably more extreme in his politics before, now he just got senile and started shilling for the democrats.

>> No.16661044

>>16660023
>We need to save democracy by having mass media organizations and the government censor people

>>16660279
>It's not censorship because they don't call it that. wdym the ministry of love tortures people and the ministry of truth delivers propaganda

This guy is an idiot or a troll

>> No.16661132

>>16657115
never read this book, can someone explain what the fountain pen and hobby knife are meant to symbolize

>> No.16661147

>>16661132
read

>> No.16661945

>>16660035
That's true. I'm interested with the designs, how the backdoor deals would work by someone speaking from experience

>> No.16662642

Chomsky is probably the most egregiously wrong 'social critic' I've ever had the displeasure of reading.

>> No.16662652

>>16660288
>bad faith

I swear to God, this is one of those new Leftoid power words they can sprinkle in anywhere so they never have to contend with ANY arguments EVER.

>> No.16662670

>>16659785
kys democrat, calling people nazis who don’t support fake news. your energy is just going to create real nazis, are you ready for that?

>> No.16662676

>>16660387
>It's not censorship if the white noise adds to the misinformation and prevents others from saying anything other than knee jerk reactionary and incendiary language
yes that's still censorship lol

Who decides what is misinformation?