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/lit/ - Literature

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16591172 No.16591172 [Reply] [Original]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN1WLF8T_Oc

>> No.16591178

>>16591172
I would be if I wrote Tristan und Isolde

>> No.16591187

>>16591172
Why cant normies grasp that superior people have every right to bask in their superiority? Can they not elucidate that the basking would only be narcissistic if THEY did it? Because only then would it be delusional.

>> No.16591201

>>16591172
From what I've read that clip isn't even an exaggeration. He really was exhausting to be around.

>> No.16591228

>>16591178
He was narcissistic and thought he was the next greatest musical genius even when he was 18 and making Beethoven transcriptions for piano:

https://www.amazon.com/Symphony-1831-Wagner-Piano-Arrangement/dp/B0000279GQ

>> No.16591239

>>16591228
>He was narcissistic and thought he was the next greatest musical genius
he was right

>> No.16591260

>>16591239
Right. And this may be what it takes. In a more positive register this would be self confidence, and nothing vicious.

>> No.16592697
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16592697

>>16591172
>Horace, Lucretius, Ovid, and almost all the ancients spoke of themselves with pride, and so did Dante, Shakespeare, Bacon, and many others. That a man can have a great mind without his noticing something of it is an absurdity of which only hopeless incompetence can persuade itself, in order that it may also regard as modesty the feeling of its own insignificance.

>> No.16592702

Back to >>>/mu/

>> No.16592712

>>16592697
And there it is. How did he get it so right all the time?

>> No.16592729

>>16592697
I hope Schopenhauer isn't implying being prideful and recognising a greatness and superiority over the social sphere, is opposed to the divine modesty of a Bach before God.

>> No.16592740

>>16592729
Read any biography of Bach. The guy had a huge ego. He was imprisoned for defying his employers and ganged up on by disgruntled musicians after he bullied one of them for being a shitty bassoonist. Bach was an asshole, like most men of genius and greatness.

>> No.16592742

>>16592729
Religious pride is simply a sublimation of personal pride. It’s the same amount of pride felt, simply felt on behalf of the servant for the master.

>> No.16592756

>>16592729
Modesty and self-denial before the divine is an entirely different matter and would equate to denial of the will to live. Modesty before mere mortals, though...

>> No.16592768

>>16592740
I'm aware, I literally put that in what I said.

>> No.16592797

>>16592740
Beethoven was an even bigger asshole, who threw hot food at waiters, purposely disrespected nobles, fucked over his publishers, who would leave his apartments utterly trashed when he needed to move and filled with unemptied chamber pots, caused his own nephew to attempt suicide just to get away from him. A true cunt, but when you have that much talent, you can be a cunt if you want.

>> No.16593345

>>16592702
>implying /mu/ would ever talk about Wagner outside of their classical containment (survival perhaps is more fitting) thread.

>> No.16593438

>>16592740
>defying his employers
He was stiffed by plenty, e.g. Brandenburg Concertos

>> No.16593730

>>16591172
Because he's an actual genius that made a name for himself. By the way didn't Wagner used to threaten to beat the shit out of his critics?

>> No.16593741

>>16593345
/mu/ is cringe.

>> No.16593769

>tfw Mozart was in fact a nice guy in comparison after all

>> No.16593801

>>16593730
>literally murders anyone who stands in his path
based

>> No.16593807

this never happened

>> No.16593824

>>16591172
Based Kraut BTFOing degen frogs

>> No.16593991

>>16592697
>shakespeare speaking of himself with pride
>shakespeare ever speaking in his own voice
what the FUCK did he mean by this

>> No.16594191

>>16593807
It's almost certain something like it did, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's based directly on some report somewhere.

>> No.16594199 [DELETED] 

>>16591172
>>16593769
Mozart was too nice for this world:

>For God's sake, do read the bulky but very interesting book on Mozart by Otto Jahn. You will see from it what a wonderful, irreproachable, infinitely kind, and angelically pure nature he had. He was the incarnation of the ideal of a great artist who creates because of an unconscious stirring of his genius. He wrote music as the nightingales sing, i.e. without pausing to think, without doing violence to himself. [...] Everyone loved him; he had the most marvellous, cheerful, and equable temperament. There was not a whit of pride in him. Whenever he met Haydn, he would express his love and veneration for him in the most sincere and fervent terms. The purity of his soul was absolute. He knew neither envy nor vengefulness nor spite, and I think that all this can be heard in his music, which has reconciling, clarifying, and caressing properties [...]

>> No.16594210

>>16591172
>>16593769
Mozart was too nice for this world:

>For God's sake, do read the bulky but very interesting book on Mozart by Otto Jahn. You will see from it what a wonderful, irreproachable, infinitely kind, and angelically pure nature he had. He was the incarnation of the ideal of a great artist who creates because of an unconscious stirring of his genius. He wrote music as the nightingales sing, i.e. without pausing to think, without doing violence to himself. [...] Everyone loved him; he had the most marvellous, cheerful, and equable temperament. There was not a whit of pride in him. Whenever he met Haydn, he would express his love and veneration for him in the most sincere and fervent terms. The purity of his soul was absolute. He knew neither envy nor vengefulness nor spite, and I think that all this can be heard in his music, which has reconciling, clarifying, and caressing properties [...]
- Tchaikovsky

>> No.16594447

>>16594210
Why did that Amadeus movie depict him as a soulless sociopath?

>> No.16594452

>>16594210
You forgot the Voltaire quote

>> No.16594568

>>16594210
>There was not a whit of pride in him
If he'd read some of his personal letters he'd find that he was pretty cocky, though maybe he was better at hiding it than other composers. From what I understand Tchaikovsky kind of idolized Mozart though and he's getting info from a secondhand account so I doubt that's an accurate description of his personality.

>> No.16594602

>>16592697
fagner was anything but great. he was a fucking midwit through and through, composed disney tunes before disney

>> No.16594679

>>16594452
It's a great quote.

>> No.16594685

>>16594602
B-BUTTERFLY?! I-I KNEEL!!!

>> No.16594784

>>16594210
So, he is Prince Myshkin?

>> No.16594822

Composers were incel chads. They are exactly what /lit/ sees themselves as.

>> No.16595587

>>16594822
>mog every man in sight
>still a virgin NEET
heh, get on my level, kiddo

>> No.16595642

>>16591172
He had the Ring cycle, Tristan, Parsifal, and Lohengrin inside him. He was right.

>> No.16597277 [DELETED] 

>>16594602
>Wagner was a midwit through and through
>he composed disney tunes before disney
Fucks sake you're such a retard, it's hilarious. I'll give a good anecdote, do you think pretty much every composer of Wagner's era and after him, whether they liked him or not, thought of and considered him as a genius for nothing? Literally Verdi, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, Liszt, Puccini, etc. NOW Schoenberg wrote real movie music and disney tunes, that ugly jew, though he wasn't dumb; it took someone intelligent to ruin music like the modern world wanted. Anyhow, Wagner was one of the most intelligent men ever, do you think Nietzsche's idolising of him in his youth was for nothing? He even said he might not have survived without the beauty of Wagner's music in his youth, and even after hating Wagner he still recognised him as one of the greats in his Parsifal, as much as he detested it also.

>> No.16597298

>>16592729
Bach is overrated

>> No.16597301
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16597301

>>16594602
>Wagner was a midwit through and through
>he composed disney tunes before disney
Oh my gosh, Butterfly is such a retard.

>> No.16597313

>>16597298
Wagner didn't think so, though he recognised him as a evidently part of his time and must be understood as such, and rejected figures like Mendelssohn treating him like any other modern composer merely to extract some impressing emotion out of, he held in the same regards as a Beethoven and Mozart and called him "the old master". All the great composers have less than satisfactory pieces here or there, or have other composers better than them in some regards, Handel was undoubtedly better than Bach in some spheres of music, but if you understand what Bach did and how well educated he was you will see he is truly an equal to all the other musical greats.

>> No.16597363

>>16592697
Their greatness only measures in comparison to the standard of their current fashion, not just will there always be greater minds througout the time before them, just as after them, during their own development, there will be minds that are far greater and much more developed than theirs, failed on means of trivial and economic nonsense, -- think of all the great minds lost in history before regarding yourself as superior, based on things you have no control over, as does nobody!

>> No.16597366

>>16597313
Wagner lived in the 1800s when Bach wasn't overrated.

>> No.16597368

>>16591172
>posts a man
>asks why he's narcissistic
can you point out a single human m*le that wasn't?

>> No.16597414

>>16597368
My friend, Saito. A simple man. A most pristine man.

>> No.16597468

>>16597366
Not at all, that was when he was at the height of revival and he criticised people treating his music, all music in different historic periods, as reductively the same. Nevertheless, he praised him as one of the greats, just with all the complexity and understanding which was unique to his time period, and of course as he sits in that as a unique character and man himself. Wagner wrote quite a bit about the importance of time and space in understanding, such as on conducting.

>> No.16597497

>>16597468
There's a difference between calling someone a great and elevating them to god status.

>> No.16597557

>>16597497
He evidently thought Mozart and Beethoven historically were later and brought music forward, but he did regard him as an equal to them, he says it himself somewhere. There were still many who weren't advocating Bach in the 19th century, Wagner was certainly one of them who was advocating it.

>> No.16597856

>>16591172

Prolly because he was wary of ingratiating jews trying to wheedle their way up to a higher station in the music world

>> No.16597882

>>16592697
Modestfags BTFO

>> No.16599341

>>16594210
(n-no homo)

>> No.16599442

>>16597882
Jesus was modest, and a lot of these classical composers are Christian.

>> No.16599450

>>16597298
St Matthew Passion is strictly a masterpiece.