/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.16565592]

People often defend AAVE/Ebonics by saying, and I quote, "AAVE has consitent 'grammar rules' [quotes mine] and a consistent 'logic' [ibid] so it is a correct form of English."

My rebuttal is rather to view this "consistency" as consistently making the same mistake. Multiplying 1 by 1 and getting a result of 2 every time [see Terrence Howard, known actor and part-time mathematician] doesn't make it right. You just consistently make the same mistake and show yourself to be ignorant. The same is applied to AAVE. Their "grammar" consistently makes the same mistakes, illustrating their ignorance. AAVE is not a correct form of English. It is rather an obstinate form ignorance, which the larger intellectual world refuses to correct because of muh slavery.

[Anonymous No.16565607]

>>16565592
The definition of up-your-own-ass jesus christ.

[Anonymous No.16565608]

>>16565592
Yeah but it's fun to read and parody

[Anonymous No.16565618]

>>16565592

nigga you don't know shit

[Anonymous No.16565622]

you're a ninny, aave is fun

[Anonymous No.16565625]

>>16565607
So if I consitently say I is, then that is correct English?

[Anonymous No.16565633]

>>16565608
>>16565622
I would rather raise a race up from the mire of ignorance than laugh at their lack of awareness.

[Anonymous No.16565641]

hol up mang
ay yo so was you sayin is
lemme finish here

dey finna be taking our language outta school
mhm I don't think so!
boy if you take our AAVE imma have to whoop your ass
lawd help me

[Anonymous No.16565651]

>>16565633
you're concern trolling, if they spoke standard american english (which they can) nothing would change.

[Anonymous No.16565654]

Desu if you discount AAVE for having different ("incorrect") grammar from Standard English, why not say Standard English is also bad because it has very different ("incorrect") grammar from Middle English or Old English?

[Anonymous No.16565659]

>>16565625
das rite, brother. Our language is the language of KINGS and don't let that intolerant, elitist, pale, yte ass OP tell ya otherwise

[Anonymous No.16565667]

>>16565592
At what point does it start being a dialect and stop being 'wrong' whitey?

[Anonymous No.16565687]

>>16565667
There would have to be a major literary work written in AAVE, or at least a movement for authors to write and publish in AAVE. Like the Bible in what is now known as standard German

[Anonymous No.16565694]

>>16565625
Yeah, it's a dialect. AAVE isn't even a comparably disparate dialect. There are hundrds of chinese dialects to the point where two people in different regions of the continent can barely communicate with each other at all. The dialects use the same words from time to time and with different grammtical structures but there are rules sound enough for considerable communication, even non AAVE speakers are close to fluency so long as they are fluent in english.

Language just simply isn't about being correct, it's just communication.

[Anonymous No.16565732]

>>16565667
Never, because it's not a dialect, just a collection of common fuckups.

[Anonymous No.16566310]

Have southoid dialects ever been legitimized? Why do they want it to be? Just to say we iz intellectuals and shiiiet? Just have it be a fun informal dialect.

[Anonymous No.16566359]

>>16565592
Emily rudd

[Anonymous No.16566927]

>>16565694
>Language just simply isn't about being correct, it's just communication.
The absolute state of /lit/

[Anonymous No.16566942]

>>16566359
She's very pretty, and still is, but I feel like she looked better when she had the long black hair.

[Anonymous No.16566954]

We finna take dis talk and make it ow own nah mean
crackas be thinkin they own it buh naaaah nigga mine now nah sayin

[Anonymous No.16566955]

>>16565651
>>16565654
>english
>standard

[Anonymous No.16566991]

>>16565694
the difference is that you have a correct way of writing/speaking that is taught in school so everybody can communicate formally.

[Anonymous No.16567061]

>>16565592
you clearly know nothing about mathematics. A logical system is perfectly capable of supporting a multiplication function on symbols 1 and 1 (1x1) and getting a result of 2. Of course in this case the symbols 1, 2 and x would be defined by different axioms than they are in conventional mathematics but this is besides the point. The point is AAVE/Ebonics are effective for communication which makes them logically complete systems. I don't think you appreciate how much of "correct" english is totally arbitrary and a mish mash of other languages.

[Anonymous No.16567091]

Not really OP. It just sounds retarded and should be purged by any decent state

[Anonymous No.16567106]

>>16567061
Yuh dis nigga spittin facts homes. Dis shieet got logic and shieet maen. Logical consistency don’t mean shiet for no complexity doe.

[Anonymous No.16567134]

bla bla bla you’re a faggot nobody cares kys

[Anonymous No.16567136]

>>16565654
this

[Anonymous No.16567143]

>>16565687
>who is Zora Hurston?

[Anonymous No.16567153]

OP is a loser faggot who actually cares about stupid shit like this,

but let me bring attention to you that picrel was probably just the first picture he had in his camera roll, as it is filled with many 6/10 semi-famous white girls that he beats off to every night after clocking in from a hard day of btfoing the blacks on /lit/, before waking up and going to his wagie cuckery and then doing the same that night

[Anonymous No.16567564]

Niggerspeak is not a dialect, it is a pidgin. Anyone who disputes this is a shitlib faggot.

[Anonymous No.16567574]

>>16567134
this

[Anonymous No.16567576]

AAVE is an evolution of Scots as it sounded centuries before, in other words it's a dialect

[Anonymous No.16567740]

AYO HOL UP

[Anonymous No.16567761]

>>16567153
Stop summarising my diary desu

[Anonymous No.16568117]

>>16567153
>newfag doesn't recognize old /lit/ meme template

[Anonymous No.16568196]

For all the trolls defending AAVE, let's say you are a professor of English Literature. You teaching a class on Shakespeare. One of your students turns in their critical essay on Shakespeare's Othello. It is written in AAVE. What do you do? How do you grade it?

[Anonymous No.16568227]

It's not even consistent. For example, take the phrase "going to." Sometimes they say "gone," sometimes they say "gon," sometimes they say "finna."

[Anonymous No.16568229]

>>16566310
>Why do they want it to be?

Validate utter cultural self-destruction of the African-American community.

[Anonymous No.16568254]

>>16565592
Your analogy fails because the statement 1 x 1 = 2 cannot logically have an actually-existing referent and is therefore incorrect. Its incorrectness arises out of the statement’s incompatibility with reality. You falsely claim that AAVE is analogously incorrect where it diverges from standard English, but this is clearly an entirely different kind of relationship: namely, one existing between two different constructed languages, rather than between a single constructed language and physical reality. In order to prove that AAVE is "wrong" where it diverges from English, you first have to demonstrate what made the English correct in the first place.

[Anonymous No.16568256]

Ok retards, think about it this way. In America, AAVE is THE ONLY DIALECT WHICH IS TAUGHT AS A FORMALIZED "LANGUAGE" in all-bkack schools. They literally teach them AAVE instead of English. Do you really think that is going to help in the long run? Down South you're taught normal fucking schoolbook English. Up in Philly, New Jersey, etc. you are taught normal English. Those SPOKEN dialects aren't formalized into a written language. BUT FOR SOME FUCKING REASON THE SPOKEN DIALECT OF AAVE has been formalized into a written language which is exclusively taught to blacks to cause issues when they go off to higher education and the job market in order to foment "racism". It's fucking ridiculous. No other dialect in America is taught as a formalized writing system. Explain this you daft cunts.

[Anonymous No.16568259]

>>16568254
Retard>>16568254

[Anonymous No.16568263]

>>16565687
>Hasn’t heard of August Wilson
Also there are passages of AAVE spanning many pages of Invisible Man

[Anonymous No.16568265]

>>16568254
AAVE as a formal written language is incompatible with reality. Name ONE other dialect from America which is taught as a formal writing system in schools. You can't. Faggot troll.

[Anonymous No.16568276]

>>16566927
He’s right though. If you disagree, the onus is on you to justify what conventions are considered correct, and which ones are incorrect. I guarantee that you cannot do this satisfactorily

[Anonymous No.16568340]

>>16568265
> AAVE as a formal written language is incompatible with reality.
You clearly failed to understand my post. The statement 1x1=2 is "incompatible with reality" because the proposition it denotes is necessarily false. The semantic content of the sentence cannot be true, ergo the statement is incompatible with reality and is incorrect. AAVE and English are both SYNTACTIC systems and possess no semantic content outside of their use by speakers. Alleging that either of them are incorrect as 1x1=2 is incorrect (that is, that either English or AAVE is semantically incorrect) is false and actually pretty incoherent.

[Anonymous No.16568356]

>>16568340
Oops typo. Meant to say "Alleging that either of them *is* incorrect"
By the way, this was an example of a syntactically-incorrect statement.

[Anonymous No.16568358]

>>16568276
The majority of the English speaking world adheres to certain grammar conventions when writing. AAVE is the only dialect besides pidgin which does not. Even Scouse, Scots, and Mancunian english speakers write in formal English. THEY DO NOT FORMALLY TRANSCRIBE THEIR DIALECT INTO A WRITING SYSTEM.

[Anonymous No.16568364]

>>16568340
AAVE is incorrect. Why does this trigger you?

[Anonymous No.16568425]

>>16568358
Using AAVE in "formal writing" is incorrect if "formal writing" is taken to mean "standard American English," but this is trivially-apparent (using French would also be incorrect for the same reason).
> AAVE is the only dialect besides pidgin which does not [adhere to certain grammar conventions when writing]
What the fuck does this even mean anon? If you’re trying to say that AAVE does not adhere to the conventions of standard American English when written you’re obviously correct but this is also by definition true of every nonstandard English dialect. If instead you’re saying that AAVE speakers don’t adhere to these conventions when writing you’re mistaken, as virtually all AAVE speakers also speak Standard American English

[Anonymous No.16568433]

>>16568358
>they do not formally transcribe their dialect into a writing system
yeah they do, it's just not as common as AAVE for obvious reasons

[Anonymous No.16568449]

>>16568358
>Even Scouse, Scots, and Mancunian english speakers write in formal English. THEY DO NOT FORMALLY TRANSCRIBE THEIR DIALECT INTO A WRITING SYSTEM.
*blocks your path*

[Anonymous No.16568472]

>>16565651
>which they can
Haha hehe hoho

[Anonymous No.16568537]

>>16565687
> There would have to be a major literary work written in a dialect in order to be valid
> Homeric poems passed down through memorization don't count though.

[Anonymous No.16568601]

>>16568425
Most dialects adhere to standar grammar conventions. Name one other american dialect which consistently uses "I is", "We was" or "I/you/he/she/we be". You can't.

[Anonymous No.16568604]

>>16568449
Name one Scouse or Mancunian who writes in their phonetically transcribed dialect.

[Anonymous No.16568622]

>>16568601
Appalachian English frequently uses non-standard conjugations of the verb "be."

>>16568604
Not my fault they don't care about their dialect as much as African-Americans and Scots do.

[Anonymous No.16568647]

>>16568601
>Name one other american dialect which consistently uses "I is", "We was" or "I/you/he/she/we be".
African American Vernacular English is the only one. However,
>Most dialects adhere to standar [sic] grammar conventions.
By definition not true. All dialects possess grammatical features which differ from standard American English. If a dialect did not, then it literally wouldn't be distinct from standard American English, and therefore wouldn't be a dialect at all. In highlighting the syntactic features of AAVE that differ from SAE you're literally just identifying the fact that it is a dialect that is distinct from SAE. You still need to demonstrate how the distinguishing features AAVE are "incorrect," which by the way you will fail to do unequivocally.

[Anonymous No.16568655]

>>16565592
wardine be cry

[Anonymous No.16568672]

>>16565592
Please read me some Shakespeare and tell me if according to its consistent grammar rules, modern English is written correctly or 'consistently making the same mistakes'

[Anonymous No.16568694]

>wypipo pretending Scottish isn't the same
>wypipo eating mayonnaise
>mfw

[Anonymous No.16568698]

>>16567136
because we are not in the middle ages. Of courts Ebonics are not correct, all dialects are incorrect in some for or another, while it's ok to use them in a casual setting in formal occasion and in formal writing you should use standardized English in order to make sure those whose dialects differ from your won understand what you are saying.
It's the most basic tenets of language for fucks sake. Use the same words with the same meaning while speaking with others in order to get your point across.

[Anonymous No.16568715]

Are you faggots actually fucking defending pidgin and AAVE as "proper English"? For fucks sake When you mix Spanish and English while you speak you also are getting a dialect that is even more internally consistent than AAVE, but everyone know that is no the way one should talk in formal occasions or how one should write.

[Anonymous No.16568743]

>>16568715
>When you mix Spanish and English while you speak you also are getting a dialect that is even more internally consistent than AAVE
No, code-switching is almost never consistent. (If it's consistent then it's considered to be a pidgin instead.)

[Anonymous No.16568744]

>>16568698
>>16568715
You're both conflating two different arguments: "AAVE is a legitimate dialect with its own internal rules that aren't just mistakes" (which is the argument the pro-AAVE people in this thread are making) and "AAVE should be used in formal speech and writing" (which no one is arguing). Of course in formal speech and writing it makes sense to use the standard dialect so everyone can understand it, but that doesn't make AAVE somehow bad or deficient. German speakers use Standard German for all formal situations, but that doesn't mean the Swiss or Bavarian dialects are just people making mistakes.

[Anonymous No.16568761]

>>16568715
No one is saying that AAVE is "proper english," only that it's a proper dialect, and not a set of recurring mistakes analogous to saying 1x1=2, as OP falsely asserted.

[Anonymous No.16568866]

>>16565592
Its literally U speak vs non-U speak, and it coiuld be argued its prole Newspeak which purposefully limits and stupifies language capacity

[Anonymous No.16568890]

>>16565592
People who defend ebonics are retarded. Not as retarded as the people who speak it but its a close run thing.

[Anonymous No.16568891]

>>16568866
>purposefully
Yeah no

[The guy I am replying to is an(...) No.16569189]

>>16568647
Say "I is" is not correct. Dumbass pragmatist.

[Anonymous No.16569205]

>>16568744
>no one arguing that AAVE should be used in formal writing
You do realize blacks are getting uppity about English professors correcting their writing at universities? Right? You are aware of this?

[Anonymous No.16569219]

>>16565592
>AAVE is not a correct form of English
Neither is American English. It is just white ebonics.

[Anonymous No.16569228]

>>16568622
>Appalachian English frequently uses non-standard conjugations of the verb "be."
Give an example. I'm from Appalachia. No idea what you're referring to.

[Anonymous No.16569253]

>>16568744
AAVE is literally taught to black children in all black/majority black schools. In other words they are teaching children to write in it.

[Anonymous No.16569293]

>>16565592
Who cares if blacks speak AAVE? We're on the road to considering them a separate nation anyway so why shouldn't they have their own language?

[Anonymous No.16569303]

>>16569293
No it's about writing you knobs. AAVE is becoming acceptable in college essays, high school papers, etc

[Anonymous No.16569306]

>>16568622
Appalachian English is considered as bad as AAVE by everyone else

[Anonymous No.16569318]

>>16568744
bavarians and swiss were a mistake you mountain monkeys

[Anonymous No.16569320]

>>16569318
based

[Anonymous No.16569355]

>>16568744
In high school we were taught that it was racist to expect black kids to be taught "proper English". People are taught how to write in ebonics in schools. I dont understand how someone can listen to how blacks speak and think they're a positive cultural force

[Anonymous No.16569361]

>>16569303
That's fine. Just declare it a separate language.

[Anonymous No.16569364]

>>16569205
I mean no one in this thread.

>>16569228
"I been there already," "They was outside," things like that. There's a collection of interviews with Appalachian speakers born in the 19th century here; I don't know if all the features they used are still common today, however.
http://artsandsciences.sc.edu/appalachianenglish/transcripts.html

>>16569253
How common is that? I know there was a controversy in the 90s in Oakland where a school tried to teach AAVE to students but there was public outcry and the program was canceled. Besides, as long as they learn Standard English too I don't see what the problem is, just like I don't see what the problem is with Scottish students learning to read Scots poetry.

[Anonymous No.16569371]

>>16569355
Isn't it strange how no other dialect of English is treated this way? Isn't strange how people in Appalachia are still expected to know "proper English"? Isn't it strange how Scots are also still expected to know "proper English"? Hmmm I wonder why the only exception is made for blacks....

[Anonymous No.16569377]

>>16569364
They aren't learning standard english because as >>16569355 points out, it is considered racist.

[Anonymous No.16569384]

>>16569355
>>16569371
But you really CAN'T expect that though. Instead of tearing down standards, why not just admit that blacks can't and shouldn't have to meet white standards? Antiracist writers like Ibram X. Kendi call this "Affirming the equality of difference".

[Anonymous No.16569389]

>>16569377
Could you provide evidence of a school that does this? I don't mean some shit-tier inner city school that doesn't teach its students anything, I mean one that teaches AAVE but not Standard English.

[Anonymous No.16569394]

>>16569371
It's just so stylistically ugly, I have no idea how someone can argue in good conscience that it's equal to proper English and that teaching it to blacks is a good thing. No one in the professional world speaks ebonics, isnt that setting them up for failure? Is having a society where people can communicate with each other and share a culture a bad thing now?

[Anonymous No.16569414]

>>16569394
There's a reasonable argument to be made that forcing blacks into white society sets them up for failure because the vast majority of them aren't going to be able to succeed.

[Anonymous No.16569426]

DEFEND THIS STEPHEN PINKER

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oj7a-p4psRA

[Anonymous No.16569430]

>>16569384
a black nerd argues black people are stupid?

[Anonymous No.16569433]

language standardization is cringe and bluepilled

[Anonymous No.16569435]

>>16569389
>no you can't just count all black inner city schools!!!!

[Anonymous No.16569436]

>>16568256
sounds fake. post proof of this

[Anonymous No.16569441]

https://www.bbc.com/pidgin

[Anonymous No.16569448]

>>16569430
An IQ of 85 was considered "retarded' before it was shifted down to 70. The average IQ of US blacks is 85. They're a bit less intelligent than other groups.

[Anonymous No.16569463]

>>16569435
You can count an all black inner city school if it teaches AAVE but doesn't teach Standard English. I'm saying I wouldn't count one which doesn't teach any form of English at all (since that isn't what the thread is about).

[Anonymous No.16569468]

>>16569448
85 seems like a poor cutoff anyways. Only one standard deviation? It's like calling 115 a genius.

[Anonymous No.16569489]

>>16569468
To be fair, a white person with an IQ of 85 will seem 'slow', but a black person could get an 85 and seem 'normal' - but they'll have about the same level of mental ability.

[Anonymous No.16569493]

>>16568672
When the language overall moves in a direction, it simply evolves. But when one particular ethnic group is too stupid to speak the language correctly, that's not an evolution of the language. Remember that Shakespeare was a widely understood popular writer in his day. Ghetto talk is neither widely understood nor popular. The most you can say for it on that score is that woke white people ape what they think ghetto talk was from ten years ago based on music.

[Anonymous No.16569507]

>>16569468
Have you ever met anyone with an IQ around 85? No, they're counting to potato but they need significant protections that normal people don't

https://youtu.be/5nkKa45Xeqo

[Anonymous No.16569516]

>>16569493
When Vulgar Latin evolved into the Romance languages, it did so differently among different groups, which is why French, Italian, and Romanian are not mutually intelligible. Similarly, English has evolved differently among different groups, such as African Americans, Scotsmen, and Australian bogans. Why is "ghetto talk" any worse than French?

[Anonymous No.16569664]

>>16569516
If that is your excuse then it's not English. If it's not English then it should not be taught in america and those who use should be dealt as the alien group they are culturally, ethnically and linguistically.

[Anonymous No.16569679]

>>16569355
My four year old twins speak as well or better than the blacks with which I work. I wonder often if their level of comprehension and thought exceeds that of toddlers, considering I engage in the same level of discourse with my children.

[Anonymous No.16569702]

>>16569664
>If that is your excuse then it's not English.
It's on its way to becoming a separate language. It took centuries for Vulgar Latin to diverge into the different Romance languages; give it a few hundred years and maybe AAVE will be a separate language from whatever the descendant of Standard English is.
>If it's not English then it should not be taught in america
Lots of schools teach languages other than English. Most high schools and universities have a second language requirement.
>and those who use should be dealt as the alien group they are culturally, ethnically and linguistically.
What do you mean?

>>16569679
>My four year old twins speak as well or better than the blacks with which I work.
It seems unlikely that your children actually have a better grasp of language than any native English speaking adult, though it's possible that they speak Standard English (not English in general) more proficiently than your black colleagues.

[Anonymous No.16569704]

>>16569516
Then it isn't English. It is its own language. AAVE defenders claim it is "correct" English.

[Anonymous No.16569821]

>>16569702
>Lots of schools teach languages other than English. Most high schools and universities have a second language requirement.
It should not be taught as a first language. And not even as a second because, as it stand it's not a proper one, it's a amalgamation of colloquialism and saying that are not, and I repeat, are not completely coherent and since they are not consistent and consistent. They might be so in a far off future, once the new rules and grammatical structure for this "Language" is established but at the moment it is not. It's very Dishonest to compare then with french or Spanish.

>What do you mean?
Simple, you do not hire, buy or deal with them if they are no willing to speak the common language. If a Frenchmen who only spoke french and refused to learn English wished to get hired in the same capacity as English speaking men you would turn him away.
It's only fair to do the same with this new people with this new langue.

[Anonymous No.16569928]

>>16569489
>but a black person could get an 85 and seem 'normal'

Because they're normal for an idiot, yes.

Whenever I've met black people I would characterize as smart (such as at college), I usually have had to remind myself that they're probably not smart, they're just smart compared to the average black person. When you're used to dealing with black people who have IQs of 85, one with an IQ of 100 would seem smart by comparison.

[Anonymous No.16569947]

>>16569507
Geez, can you guys just let the poor girl take cock in peace already?

[Anonymous No.16569962]

Damn being a black guy with an actual high IQ must be hell

[Anonymous No.16569980]

>>16569962
>Damn being a black guy with an actual high IQ must be hell

I wonder if they actually realize how fucked their people are or whether they just rationalize it away as just the result of discrimination.

[Anonymous No.16570157]

>>16568227
There are dialects in AAVE

[Anonymous No.16570183]

>>16568256
Provide 5 examples of where it is taught

[Anonymous No.16570195]

>>16568364
AAVE is correct. Why does that trigger you?

[Anonymous No.16570213]

>>16568715
>Are you faggots actually fucking defending pidgin and AAVE as "proper English"?
Who said this?

[Anonymous No.16570217]

>>16570195
It incorrect if they are pretending to speak English.
>>16570157
then it's not a dialect in of itself.

[Anonymous No.16570234]

shut yo bitch ass up op else im finna clap ur momma cheeks and make u watch it

[Anonymous No.16570239]

>>16569394
>It's just so stylistically ugly
Says (You)

[Anonymous No.16570241]

>>16570183
This is an example of the smartest, most literary blacks in the US, btw

After she started teaching English at Carver in 2015, it wasn’t long before LaQuisha Hall decided she wanted to publish her students’ writing.

“Being a published author myself … I wanted to give my students that same opportunity, because so many of them carry powerful stories,” she told me. “In the education world, we always talk about giving students a voice. What does that actually look like?”

She had some misgivings: Could students meet her deadlines? Could they slog through the process of editing and rewriting? Could her students in special education keep pace with the general-education students? But her doubts, along with the students’ enthusiasm, fueled her desire to publish and find out. “That lit a fire under me … to know that I gave [them] an opportunity that they may not have had if they were in someone else’s class,” she said.


The first book, published in 2016, began as a writing assignment on the American Dream. After Hall’s juniors read the Zora Neale Hurston classic Their Eyes Were Watching God—and wrote about the presence, or lack thereof, of the American Dream in the novel—she invited them to write about the pursuit of prosperity and success through a modern-day lens. The result was One Nation, One Heart, winner of that year’s national Indie Author Legacy Award for Youth Authors of the Year.


Getting to that end product wasn’t always easy; self-publishing students requires a lot of trial and error, Hall said, and enormous amounts of patience. Moving from concept to writing and through many stages of revisions, she worked with the students, talking them through writer’s block, motivating them when the project felt daunting, and bringing them across the finish line.

The actual mechanics of self-publishing were easier. Hall published the book on her students’ behalf and listed it on Amazon. Students were able to purchase books at cost, resell them to family and friends, and keep the earnings from the sale of each paperback. “I wanted them to see that what you’re learning in school matters, and you can make money from that,” Hall said. “You don’t have to work at McDonald’s. You don’t have to seek out risky and harmful ways to make money. Keep writing.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2020/09/teaching-black-teens-write-books-they-read/615895/

[Anonymous No.16570260]

>>16570241
This is the entire story btw

[Anonymous No.16570268]

One memory stands out above all others. Philip (whose real name is not being used, to protect his privacy) was a football player and big man on campus. “He was one of those guys that walks down the hall and everyone high-fives him,” she recalled.

He also struggled with reading and writing. Hall worked with Philip throughout the school year, and soon, she said, he was determined to be part of the book project: “I told him, ‘You know it’s going to be a lot of writing and a lot of work. Not that you can’t do it, but you can’t get frustrated and shut down when I ask you to do it again.’ And he looked at me with such fierceness and said, ‘Yes, I’m going to do this!’”

The day of the book signing, Philip sat at the table with his co-authors. Hall still remembers his words: “I was told by my dad that I needed to make sure I played football, because I wasn’t good for anything but sports,” Philip said, with tears welling up in his eyes. “My father didn’t believe in me,” he continued, but “thanks to Mrs. Hall, I’m a published author now, and my dad can’t even say that!”

It was a goose-bumps moment that left Hall overcome with emotion. “It kind of blew my mind … this boy wrote three stories, but he’s constantly getting phone calls home about what he can’t do in education, and what support he needs.”

[Anonymous No.16570269]

>>16570241
>>16570260
The text in your pictures isn't AAVE; it looks much more like Standard English (though it has orthographic mistakes like run-on sentences).

[Anonymous No.16570275]

>>16569679
Prove it

[Anonymous No.16570279]

>>16570269
oh, I've got more. These are the early books when the teacher still corrected her students. By the third book, it looks like Mrs. Hall didn't give a shit about proofreading anymore. Enjoy the ride

[Anonymous No.16570308]

>>16570217
>It incorrect if they are pretending to speak English
They're speaking a dialect of english
>then it's not a dialect in of itself
It is

[Anonymous No.16570337]

>>16570241
>This is an example of the smartest, most literary blacks in the US, btw
According to what?
Also this is what I said:
>Provide 5 examples of where it is taught
You haven't done this. Might this be because you can't you massive faggot?

[Anonymous No.16570348]

My favorite work of AAVE

[Anonymous No.16570357]

>>16570337
I'm sorry you feel that way, Tyrone.

[Anonymous No.16570359]

Your rebuttal isn't even addressing the argument raised by the initial quote. How can it be a mistake if it isn't judged by the same rules as "correct" English? You're so retarded, I'm not sure if this is leftest psy-ops or a good old-fashioned troll.

[Anonymous No.16570387]

>>16570357
Coward

[Anonymous No.16570407]

>>16570387
Your people's literature is used for parody and laughs. It doesn't particularly concern me though

[Anonymous No.16570420]

>>16570239
I think most people would call ebonics an ugly language, the majority of people who defend it are virtue signaling

[Anonymous No.16570424]

Thank you, Mrs. Hall, for showing the world that black people can be legitimate writers and not just reeee about slavery and whitey

Hall’s blueprint for student success was recognized across the city when she was named Baltimore City Schools Teacher of the Year in 2018. And she has emerged as a sought-after authority on youth voice in literacy, serving on CHARM’s advisory board and presenting at the annual flagship conference of the National Council of Teachers of English. She savors her memories of seeing Black youth in Baltimore pick up entrepreneurial skills by selling self-published books for a profit—and she still feels satisfied knowing she helped release their greatness into the world.

“It gave the students a fulfillment that they don’t often get in school,” Hall said. “I used to tell them, ‘You haven’t even graduated yet, but when you walk across the stage, you will walk across as a published author.’ That’s impactful for a community of kids that people tend to give up on.”

[Anonymous No.16570432]

>>16565592
As long as the message is understandable by the subset that uses the language, it is a language. Linguistically speaking there is no difference; it is not a bastardization of "proper" English but rather a subset nomenclature.

[Anonymous No.16570443]

>>16569493
You're a retard, english is not moving to a certain direction as a whole, american and british english are both different dialects, and they have evolved separately and will continue to do so, just as ebonics will do too.
>Ghetto talk is neither widely understood nor popular.
It is both understandable and popular, and even if it weren't it would still be "correct".
It doesn't matter if you think AAVE is an ugly dialect, as long as it's used it will not be a form of "incorrect" english

[Anonymous No.16570463]

>>16570407
And yet you spend time seething about it on a cambodian tap dancing forum...

[Anonymous No.16570478]

>>16570420
>I think
You aren't worth the shit I stepped on last friday. Provide some proofs or shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.16570482]

>>16570463
You recognized people point and laughing at black people. Smart boy

[Anonymous No.16570500]

>>16570482
Better than spending my time seething over things I deem inconsequential. That's simply too much of a pathetic existence.
Nice quick reply though

[Anonymous No.16570512]

>>16570424
>>16570407
>>16570348
>>16570279
this just reads like English with bad grammar or by what we would consider a poor student (by white standards). I mean they're not really using black-isms.

[Anonymous No.16570581]

>>16570500
We're not seething. We're having a good laugh. It's too bad you can't be able to join in due to being too butthurt about the color of your skin.

[Anonymous No.16570613]

>>16570424
Janiya really mastered the use of the word "I."

[Anonymous No.16570625]

>>16570581
>can't be able to join in due to being too butthurt about the color of your skin.

Pooskins are going to be assblasted and make excuses for their failures for the rest of time. No sense wasting time arguing with them.

[Anonymous No.16570639]

>>16570512
That's the point idiot. This is what your English looks like when all you are taught is AAVE and when you're taught it's ok for you to speak in AAVE in a professional setting. They are speaking in broken English because all they know is AAVE. No one ever took the time to teach them standard English at school "cus dat raycis"

[Anonymous No.16570647]

>>16570478
Calm down wigger, you might be more rational if you resisted the negrification of your mind

[Anonymous No.16570659]

>>16570581
>We're not seething
Could've fooled me

[Anonymous No.16570665]

>>16570625
What an irrelevant post

[Anonymous No.16570667]

>>16570639
But it isn't AAVE. It has nothing to do with AAVE (except a little bit of the dialogue, but even serious writers commonly use dialect for dialogue). If you had told me these were written by white students who only ever learned Standard English I'd believe you.

[Anonymous No.16570679]

>>16570647
>wigger
I ain't no fucking cracka.
>you might be more rational
You project

[Anonymous No.16570693]

>>16570665
Post hand.

[Anonymous No.16570697]

>>16570639
I suppose when I think of "AAVE" I think of using black-isms or using verbs wrong etc. which isn't really happening much in those paragraphs, they just write like a mediocre or poor white student would, which is what you would expect since the average IQ among blacks is lower.

[Anonymous No.16570708]

>>16565592

It isn't the grammatical conventions of AAVE that are a problem, but the thoughts being expressed. That is something they will never admit

[Anonymous No.16570712]

>>16565654

Modern English is a stupefied form of middle english yes. We just have more vocabulary

[Anonymous No.16570717]

>>16570697
To some people, it's not AAVE until it's 4chan-tier impressions of black people

eyyy hol up, was you sayin we not speakin good English? Ebonics is standard language and shieeeet

[Anonymous No.16570722]

Every minority in my class spells like shit, pisses me off. None of them can get "their, there, they're," right.
Your children will be speaking ebonics

[Anonymous No.16570741]

>>16570722
What does ebonics/AAVE have to do with spelling their vs. there vs. they're?

[Anonymous No.16570742]

>>16570241
>>16570260
>>16570279
>>16570348
>>16570407
>>16570424
kek, imagine being black. They live in Baltimore, the blackest city and location of arguably the most /lit/ TV show, the Wire, attend the blackest school district, surrounded by other blacks, celebrating their black culture -- and all they can write about is muh slavery by whites, oppression by whites, fuck whites. We live rent free in their heads

[Anonymous No.16570763]

>>16570741
>Correcting a black person about their grammar
Ummmm sweetie? Don't you know that's racist?

[Anonymous No.16570771]

>>16570742
The Wire fucking sucks, Sopranos is miles better

[Anonymous No.16570796]

>>16570693

[Anonymous No.16570804]

>>16570763
>spelling is grammar

[Anonymous No.16570828]

>>16570708
What are you even going on about? It's a language it expresses whatever thoughts necessary

[Anonymous No.16570831]

>>16570804
it doesn't matter what you teach blacks. They'll never grasp either

[Anonymous No.16570842]

>>16570804
Shut up you pedantic faggot
And them not knowing their, they're, there, is them not knowing grammar. They don't know how the word is supposed to work, they could probably spell it though

My point is that blacks don't know how to spell because we don't correct them because that'd be racist. So we go on letting them talk however they want, lowering the bar for the English language

[Anonymous No.16570848]

>>16570722
This is a problem not just limted to "minorities"

[Anonymous No.16570851]

>>16570848
Sure, it's more prevalent with them though

[Anonymous No.16570856]

>>16570851
Proof?

[Anonymous No.16570857]

>>16570851
not to mention, when white students self-publish their works, it's often at least competently written, in standard English and everything

[Anonymous No.16570863]

>>16570831
Proof?

[Anonymous No.16570874]

While blacks, taught, prepped, and coached by their high school teacher are capable of producing the reee whitey whine porn, white kids are doing it on their own and with better results

pic: some random white kid who self published his book

[Anonymous No.16570894]

>>16570874
and I'll add, the subject matter is about something besides how oppressed he is

[Anonymous No.16570908]

>thread about AAVE becomes a general referendum on the intelligence of racial minorities
Never change, /lit/.

[Anonymous No.16570918]

>>16570856
The existence of ebonics?

[Anonymous No.16570935]

>>16570918
Of your assertion

[Anonymous No.16570960]

>>16570935
kek, a black who understand reality. How fitting

[Anonymous No.16570965]

>>16570960
*doesn't

[Anonymous No.16570974]

AAVE is not at all like mathmatics. Simple math like multiplication and shit never change, language always does.

[Anonymous No.16570991]

>>16570960
>>16570965
I've caught you coping

[Anonymous No.16570994]

>>16565592
>AAVE is not a correct form of English
AAVE is a correct form of AAVE.

[Anonymous No.16571004]

>>16570991
I'm not sure what you want to achieve by (pretending to, hopefully) being retarded. In any case, it doesn't matter. Whites have thousands of years of literary canon, while blacks have ... I'm not sure what. One mad black guy on 4chan, I suppose

[Anonymous No.16571008]

>>16571004
Now you seethe

[Anonymous No.16571043]

>>16570796
based

[Anonymous No.16571050]

>>16571008
if blacks continue to speak and write English wrong, whitey will seethe :^) I fully support AAVE for blacks

[Anonymous No.16571087]

>>16571050
Most whites don't seethe at the fact black people speak english differently, only faggots with nothing going on their lives do this

[Anonymous No.16571102]

>>16565592
Imagine thinking language belongs to the autistic academics who constantly obsess over whether or not their expression is properly following the rules, rather than the people who use it to meaningfully articulate concepts in a communicative flux from which all rules are therefore derived and evolving even after being recorded and analyzed by aforementioned autists.

[Anonymous No.16571127]

>>16571087
>speak english differently,
they are either not speaking English or speaking it wrong we have been over this.

[Anonymous No.16571140]

>>16571127
No

[Anonymous No.16571150]

>>16571087
it's a joke, no one is seething. It'll only provide more comedy, although unfortunately at the expense of blacks

[Anonymous No.16571208]

>>16571150
>no one is seething

[Anonymous No.16571218]

>>16569493
Shakespeare actually made up a lot of 'ghetto talk' which people aped afterwards, which is why i think it makes a good (trick) example.
Another neat example is that OK or okay was actually new york slang for ' alright' : 'Ol Korrect'. The new york accent is as you hopefully know, much like ebonics, influenced by all kinds of foreign languages.
The broader point i and other anons are trying to make is that language evolves over time, takes up dialects, other languages, slang, etc. as it goes along.
Putting a hard divide between what is and isnt 'official' is always ad hoc. any poet or great prose writer worth their salt will ignore it.
Ofc you shouldnt give pity points to black poets just for using ebonics, but you should treat it as a genuine dialect, not just poor people speak.
And as such its able to create poetry and contribute to the language just as well as any other dialect.

[Anonymous No.16571270]

>>16565592
Can someone tell me why white liberals think that validating AAVE and pretending that there's nothing wrong with being uneducated help the black community? how does encouraging them to not learn proper English help them improve their own lives?

[Anonymous No.16571384]

>>16570667
>>16570697
awful bait
This would be 3 standard deviations below the mean for white writing. While the above examples are within 1 standard deviation of the mean for black writing.

[Anonymous No.16571405]

>itt overeducated nerdy fags who read 500,000 pages of involuted thesaurus raping commie gobbledygook do the perfomative conditioning of pretending niggers aren't niggers
>despite knowing fully well that they know that you know that they know that you know that niggers are niggers
it would be funny if it wasn't so depressing

[Anonymous No.16571411]

>>16571270
It creates a stronger racial divide and makes it easier for perceived racism to exist, thus causing white liberals to win in a moral sense.

[Anonymous No.16571413]

>>16571405
Damn I forgot the last "that they know". Guess I lose and blacks aren't retarded now

[Anonymous No.16571419]

>>16570894
Is the book any good?

[Anonymous No.16571472]

>>16571411
White liberals are branding things like "expecting people to show up to work on time" as racist now. When you have power and define what constitutes "moral" then you always win in a moral sense.

[Anonymous No.16571485]

>>16571419
probably not. I sometimes check out children's and young adult books, always regret it. It's really hard to find books that are good that also aren't regarded as classics

[Anonymous No.16571571]

>>16571405
pretty sad that the greatest artistic work for blacks is that Black Panther movie

[Anonymous No.16571602]

>>16571571
I think its probably Tupac
>dat rose done grown in these skreetz

[Anonymous No.16571772]

>>16565592
its just another way white liberals dress up their pet negros and amuse themselves. no one really believes the chimp version of english is a legitimate language or dialect.

[Anonymous No.16571782]

>>16571571
>pretty sad that the greatest artistic work for blacks is that Black Panther movie
Wanna know how I know you don't read?

[Anonymous No.16571794]

>>16571782
Wanna know how everyone knows you're a dishonest fag?

[Anonymous No.16571814]

>>16571794
>thinking black people have ever produced something better than Black Panther is dishonest

[Anonymous No.16571854]

>>16571814
Are you illitera..wait... are you black?

[Anonymous No.16571878]

>>16571854
>the greatest artistic work for blacks is Black Panther
>no it isn't
>you're dishonest
What did he mean by this?

[Anonymous No.16571890]

>>16571814
>>16571878
>doubling down on pretending that is what that poster meant
>doubling down on pretending not to be dishonest
wew lad who do you people think you're fooling? Is it yourselves? Has it ever worked?

[Anonymous No.16572134]

so what's the best piece of artistic work black people have produced

[Anonymous No.16572252]

>>16572134
My favorite is A Dance of the Forests.

[Anonymous No.16572259]

>>16571571
black panthers not art and was made by focus group loving white people

[Anonymous No.16572299]

>>16572134
Chappelles show

[Anonymous No.16572301]

>>16568358
Scots type in Scots all the time online. Are you retarded?

[Anonymous No.16573485]

99.9999% of black """""intellectual""""" thought is about whites. It's comfy having mental slaves

[Anonymous No.16573552]

>>16573485
Most "black intellectuals" are mouthpieces for white thinkers to give moral legitimacy to their position because we're all supposed to have a paternalistic Care For The Blacks. Whether it's Thomas Sowell, Adolph Reed, Cornell West etc. they all serve the same function of allowing whites to prove to other whites that they care about the Child. No black American intellectual has made any really interesting contributions.

[Anonymous No.16573569]

>>16573552
Sowell isn't a mouthpiece, he's not like particularly important and is clearly famous partly for being black, but he understands the material he writes and it's his own opinions about stuff.

[Anonymous No.16573578]

>>16573569
> he understands the material he writes and it's his own opinions about stuff
Faint praise indeed

[Anonymous No.16573580]

>>16573569
Obviously he only is a public figure because he's black and the Hoover Institution types want a black figure to prove that their worldview Isn't Racist. That's not to say that Sowell doesn't write good material, it's just not anything groundbreaking, and he wouldn't be where he is if not for the need for whites to trot out blacks for moral legitimacy.

[Anonymous No.16573609]

>thread is just racism after all
Whitoids are obsessed. Get bred out of existence.

[Anonymous No.16573698]

AYO HOL UP
HE LOWKEY GOTA POINT
BUT HE BE RAYCIST AS HELL

[Anonymous No.16573710]

>>16565618
>nigga you donno sheeiiit
ftfy