SO FUCKING FRUSTRATED

[Anonymous No.16557387]

I'm so fucking frustrated, I thought I had a normal functioning brain. I never really read books. So I got this to get me lifting and because it seems interesting, and i can't understand most of it. Is it so oddly written or am I just a FUCKING brainlet?

Example: 'Thus to combine art and action is to combine the flower that wilts and the flower that lasts forever, to blend within one individual the two most contradictory desires in humanity, and the respective dreams of those desires' realization.'

WHAT THE FUCK DOES THAT MEAN? Am I retarded? I'm so fucking frustrated, I want to understand what the FUCK i'm reading

[Anonymous No.16557400]

>>16557387
He's saying that thought can blend with might and enhance each other.

[Anonymous No.16557415]

>>16557400
Thanks but yeah that's just an example, it's like half the book that's written like this and I don't understand it. Do I need to read simpler books first? I thought my English was on a high enough level, but maybe my brain is just a mess.

[Anonymous No.16557421]

Start with tha Greeks

[Anonymous No.16557429]

>>16557387
Also keep in mind that for Mishima, dying at the pinnacle of youthful beauty is really cool and great and this book is written to get hollow chested young men who don't DO enough invested in getting buff and dying at this pinnacle while DOING something of significance. Maybe I'm oversimplifying a bit but that's how I remember this book being taught at my University.

[Anonymous No.16557430]

>>16557387
He's making a metaphor. You are a brainlet. But it can be solved by more reading.
t. english isn't my first language.

[Anonymous No.16557443]

>>16557429
This, and he is also writing in a somewhat academic cant. It isnt self help for manlets, its a moral philosophy in a life of action.

[Anonymous No.16557446]

>>16557421
Maybe I should man, maybe I should.
>>16557430
cool thanks. Probably should start with the greeks I guess. I'm just so fucking frustrated about not understanding a bunch of words. I know it sounds weird but I never really read books, this is like the first book/literature I've read in years - I'm 23 - and it just makes me mad reading it because I don't get half the shit. But I will read more.

[Anonymous No.16557451]

>>16557387
It is neither that it is oddly written nor that you're a fucking brainlet, the issue is that you're not acquainted with the language of metaphor. You wouldn't expect to be able to instantly understand a Spanish speaker simply because you can read Spanish, because speaking and reading are two different things. It's the same between reading metaphorical literature and reading standard books. It's a skill that will come with time, but if you've understood this post than you've already got enough comprehension to make it. Remember that: you're going to make it.

[Anonymous No.16557452]

>>16557415
I would start with simpler books, yeah. Read "The Trial" by Kafka and "The Great Gatsby." Those are the two best examples I can think of. Siddartha by Herman Hesse as well. There's a reason those books are taught in High School. It's because they express deep ideas simply and effectively.

[Anonymous No.16557457]

Baby steps, anon. Don't bite more than you can chew.

But you can still read Eastern philosophy. I would recommend "The Art of Peace" for Morihei Ueshiba, the master martial artist. I believe you will enjoy it, though I recommend reading some context prior.

[Anonymous No.16557463]

>>16557387
Understanding metahphor and allusions does level up with MORE reading yeah, he isn't trying to be purposefully obfuscating it's more a principal of if your trying to show lead someone to a lighthouse best set them adrift on a foggy night ya dig?

[Anonymous No.16557471]

>>16557446
The metaphor itself is created logically. Thing is like A and B, [describe A in depth] and [describe b in depth], both are contradictory yet they can mix and do something blabla.

Do I have to explain how contradictory stuff blending is supposed to make you feel something like "wow, this is deep/powerful"? The narrator is just describing what he believes.

Ah yes. To realize something is not only "to understand", but to actually make a potentiel become something that exists. For instance, you could kill yourself right now (potential), but it's not realized (it's not in effect). To kill yourself would realize your suicide. The passage from something being a potential of X to being something that happens to X is realization. Making something potential real, if you prefer.

[Anonymous No.16557472]

>>16557446
You are not a brainlet. I think that your problem is not understanding the bigger picture, not grapsing the concepts and metaphores.

You can train it by consuming any other media (music, movies[, video games]) analytically and noticing the structure, directing, etc. of every piece of work.
You got to understand the structure of the book and why it is as it is, just as you need to understand the structure of a music album, individual songs on it, etc.

The other important factor is knowing the context that the book was written in, knowing the author's biography, the country's history and culture, etc.

[Anonymous No.16557482]

>>16557446
I don't fully disagree with the Greek angle as personal betterment but for Mishima I would argue it isn't fully necessary (unless you want to). He had tuberculosis during the second world war and couldn't serve. Again, not to over-simplify, but this kinda inspired his art and his intention (and their culmination in his dramatized suicide), the fetishization of death in this very homoerotic way. If you have a chance, read Patriotism and watch the short movie (which Mishima stars in). Much more straightforward and definitely on topic.

[Anonymous No.16557493]

>>16557451
This is really great to read thank you. I think the main problem I have is just that I feel lost. I have some goals in life I really want, but I have a lack of discipline and never really do anything. I want to feel like I'm building something, like I'm on a journey, some grand struggle against decadence, but then I wake up from those thoughts answering phones at my 9-5 job and not being able to quit many vices, and I just feel like I really do need a better philosophy of life. That's the main reason I'm seeking books like this. To develop a 'why' behind what I'm doing strong enough to overcome my weaknesses. That's my problem right now anon.
>>16557452
Thanks! Do you think that the chart from >>16557421 is something I can start with?
>>16557457
Thanks for the suggestion
>>16557471
I think I'm getting it now anon!
>>16557472
Hmm interesting! That is definitely a way in which I never consume content and it's something I've always seen reviewers do and it made me think 'damn, how can they see that?'

[Anonymous No.16557497]

>>16557387
To understand a sentence like that you have to reflect on what "art" and "action" are. Art is reflective and contemplative, a work of art is something that, once created, remains inert. Action is ever-fleeting, as soon as an action is completed the "action" is over, and rather than being inert action is always progressive, it strives towards something. It looks forward rather than being reflective. What could it mean to combine these things? To do "beautiful action?"

[Anonymous No.16557520]

>>16557387
just take it slow and let yourself decipher as you go
there's absolutely nothing wrong with taking a bit longer to "get" it, the problem is in letting your ability to reason and interpret atrophy, which you'd be doing by giving up
keep at it anon, took me a month to get through Fear and Trembling even though it's only 200 pages long, shit can take time if your reading to interpret and not just to experience

[Anonymous No.16557521]

>>16557446
don't start with the greeks

[Anonymous No.16557523]

I think that such a sentence doesn't have a super important meaning, I treat them usually as a tool to create an image in your head and for it to stuck.
If you understand all words and logical, grammatical structure and understand the image that it's describing (like: A turtle flew through the table), but don't understand it's meaning, it's fine. It's probably not supposed to mean anything explicit. The book as a whole is trying to tell some story, but individual sentences might be dreamy and understood subconsciously.

[Anonymous No.16557575]

>>16557493
Do not start with the greeks. That's a meme. Start with pic related

[Anonymous No.16557580]

>>16557446
Just drop LSD you’ll understand the concepts getting flung around here

[Anonymous No.16557593]

>>16557575
you can't understand them if you don't read Greeks.
sure you can get entertained by it, but not understand it.

[Anonymous No.16557610]

>>16557575
>>16557593
Well as I said earlier, I want to build a solid foundation of understanding what I'm reading and what I believe and why I do things. Maybe the Greeks are good for that?

[Anonymous No.16557637]

>>16557610
The Greeks are about as difficult to read as Sun and Steel. We don't start with the Greeks in High School. You could give it a shot, sure, but If I were you I would read simple versions of Greek Myths

[Anonymous No.16557652]

Kek, I’m afraid you’re a brainlet, OP, but like some anon said, you can overcome this by reading more.

[Anonymous No.16557669]

OP I think you should read from the greeks up until dante and once you finish the divine comedy you can finally consider yourself literate.

[Anonymous No.16557701]

>>16557387

This book gets recommended a lot on 4chan for some reason. It's actually one of his worst books and is more or less impenetrable. The basic gist of it is that you can't have a glorious DEATH until you are physically fit. The man was obsessed with death. That's all you need to know.

If you're not obsessed with a glorious premature DEATH, this book is not going to motivate you to get fit. You are in the market for a different book.

[Anonymous No.16557707]

>Reading Mishima in English

The fucking state of this board.

[Anonymous No.16557755]

I’ve done this twice. No lie it has changed my life. Some advice, get a ton of good books. For you I recommend, Animal Farm, Brave New World, Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, Fight Club, and I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream. Good books for a brainlet on the path towards glory. Good luck

[Anonymous No.16557776]

OP here. I found pic related. Should I just go and follow this chart? Read the 'how to read' and then do the chart?

>>16557701
Good to know, thanks.
>>16557755
Thanks man this is useful. I've seen this before. Guess I should go for it.

[Anonymous No.16557854]

>>16557776
Reading poetry isn't the same thing as reading a scientific text or a historical text. Poetry is a language you have to learn and you learn it by reading (and hopefully writing) poetry.

With this said unless you have particular interest in history or science, you can drop it. (That isn't to say that history is totally useless for poetry. Like if you're reading dante you should probably know the difference between a guelph and a ghibelline and why dante was exiled and so on)

There are tons of different roads to take but there are undeniable touchstones you should definitely read (Homer > Aeschylus > Bible > Virgil > Ovid > Dante > Shakespeare etc). But while those are excellent authors, it's far from comprehensive as the corpus of western literature is inexhaustible. It depends on what seems interesting to you, then we can tailor something a bit more precise.

[Anonymous No.16557904]

metaphors are stupid

[Anonymous No.16557912]

>>16557387
action (i.e. your life) is the flower that wilts. no matter what you will die and your actions will be forgotten.
art is the flower that lasts forever because art represents immortal virtue.
what mishima is saying is that your life has to be a work of art in itself, which must be consecrated by your death at the peak moment, like a cherry blossom falling from the tree when it is most beautiful.

[Anonymous No.16557933]

>>16557387
It's a bit flowery but it's standard yin-yang philosophy stuff.
Sorry OP you might be brainlet

[Anonymous No.16557936]

>>16557912
this is what the temple of the golden pavilion is about by the way

[Anonymous No.16557985]

>>16557415
Mishima hits you hard and fast with metaphors. His fiction is written that way too, with rich and provocative metaphors for basically every single thought any of his characters has. You'll have trouble with that if you're not experienced with reading abstract stuff and honestly, I think there are a lot of people who might never be able to understand Mishima. He appeals blatantly to some subjective interpretation of order and beauty that can't be reasoned with, but some people just "get".

I don't think you should start with the Greeks if Mishima troubles you. The Greeks are similarly abstract, but much more dry at the same time, and less engaging. >>16557593 is right that you may not understand completely the genealogy of every idea in >>16557575, but there is enough substance to those books that you should be able to grasp just by being a living breathing human (and they are much easier to read than the Greeks).

Do the starter set, then the Greeks (or just Mishima again if you want), and if you really want to you can revisit the starter set but frankly you won't want to.

[Anonymous No.16557990]

>>16557936
pretty much every one of his books is about this, and so is his life. the man was fucking legendary

[Anonymous No.16558022]

>>16557387
Never seen this edition before, are they doing a reissue of it?

[Anonymous No.16558033]

>>16557985
did klitchko win the war or was it a tie?

[Anonymous No.16558055]

>>16558022
that was my first thought when i saw it and then i was like fuck because i just paid over a hundred for a copy, but i looked around and i think its just a mock up some autist made because it kind of has a fashwave vibe.

[Anonymous No.16558057]

>>16558033
Crimea is Russian now and Ukraine is poorer than before, so it's a loss or a draw at best

[Anonymous No.16558060]

>>16557415
Your english can be perfectly great and carry you flawlessly through real-world conversation settings, but prose just works a different brain muscle, so to speak. Like others said, start with simpler things and work your way up to it, or just be prepared to sit down and scrutinize every pssage to understand it.

[Anonymous No.16558184]

He repeats that sentence in many variations throughout. He is simply saying to merge the pen and the sword.

[Anonymous No.16558196]

Based thread, this is so much better than “urrrf durrr rec me books like/for X” with a frog image.

[Anonymous No.16558271]

>>16558196
Based on what?

[Anonymous No.16558291]

>>16558271
based on based

[Anonymous No.16558374]

>>16558271
based on god's design

[Anonymous No.16558693]

ehehehe OP just crack open a copy of Moby Dick. You'll love it.

[今晚打老虎 No.16558809]

>>16557387
sun and steel is quite a slog, especially when compared to how well written and easily digestible his other works are. it's like night and day. and in sun and steel, he speaks about how words are corrosive, an abstraction. and then he goes out to abstract to the Nth degree where its just like
>what the fuck bro
and this is coming from someone who likes MIshima and lifting.
t. brainlet that didnt finish sun and steel

[Anonymous No.16558864]

>>16557387
Just keep going, better to have a rough understanding of the book then quiting half way through. You get use to it to be honest, cause for the first chunk of the sailor who fell from grace with the sea I just didn't understand but as I went along I got the hang of it.

[Anonymous No.16558996]

>>16558809

Agreed. There are gems in there that I totally understand like the description of running, but I have to read it again to see if I can get a better grasp of it, if even possible.

His other stuff is great, finished 5 of them. Liked Spring Snow and Sound of Waves a lot.